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Child bearing years

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    #152
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Cerulean Chicken wrote: »
    The things people think are ok to say to others really fascinates me.

    This is so true. Some people spend their lives judging others. It's really quite sad when you think about it. How little there must be going on in their lives that they feel the need to cause trouble and say nasty things.


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    #153
    Cerulean Chicken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,565 ✭✭✭Cerulean Chicken


    Whispered wrote: »
    This is so true. Some people spend their lives judging others. It's really quite sad when you think about it. How little there must be going on in their lives that they feel the need to cause trouble and say nasty things.

    Yeah, because I mean we all wonder about other people and often disagree with things they do or wouldn't want them for ourselves, but I would never actually say it to someone or ask why they decided to do something, it's up to everyone what they do with their lives.


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    #154
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Whispered wrote: »
    This is so true. Some people spend their lives judging others. It's really quite sad when you think about it. How little there must be going on in their lives that they feel the need to cause trouble and say nasty things.

    See I think that sometimes people with children perceive people without children to be judgmental (and no doubt the other way round also) because I might say "ugh, Id hate nappies, screaming kids etc..' - however, what gets lost is the judgement I am passing is on myself, I am delighted that they like their life - but I wouldnt if it was my life. I am judging my own capacity for happiness, not theirs. But I think that can get lost. I deliberately used an extreme example (bolded) but you know what I mean?


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    #155
    Nymeria
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭Nymeria


    Whispered wrote: »
    This is so true. Some people spend their lives judging others. It's really quite sad when you think about it. How little there must be going on in their lives that they feel the need to cause trouble and say nasty things.

    I read this article a few months ago about this;


    http://briankim.net/blog/2011/04/why-some-people-will-ridicule-you-for-not-following-the-life-script/

    Some people are just ignorant, and can't see past their own life choices.


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    #156
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    username123 wrote: »
    I am delighted that they like their life - but I wouldnt if it was my life. I am judging my own capacity for happiness, not theirs.

    Yep, We can all understand how little things in life can differ but when it comes to bigger things, like kids, it seems that a lot of people cannot see another way of being happy other than what they chose themselves.


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    #157
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    What I cannot fathom, the women (and I am sure there are men doing it too) that seem to be unable to talk about anything but their kids when they are out for a meal/drinks with friends. They shove their phone in your face with pics of their kids and cannot talk about anything else. If there is a conversation about even soccer, they twist it back around to their kids. Yes, we get it, you have kids, congrats, there are other things in the world. I never bring my child up unless someone mentions him. "How is he?" "Grand yeah, four next month. Did you see Les Mis yet?" end of, people don't want to hear about other peoples children constantly.

    People make different choices, inflicting your ones on them is not fair. I hate people giving out about no child weddings, so what, they don't want kids there, get a babysitter like most other people.


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    #158
    Cerulean Chicken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,565 ✭✭✭Cerulean Chicken


    Something that really bugs me is when a child runs into my legs or I have to veer madly to stop a child running straight into me (this happens to me so incredibly frequently I wonder do I attract them or something) and if the kid bumps into me and gets a fright or hurts an elbow etc the parent scowls at me. This happened just yesterday, a toddler ran full force into my knee in a shop, got an awful fright when he banged his head off my bony knee, and his mother glared at me, properly glared, like I sought out her child's head to thump my knee off! How in the name of God is it my fault or even my problem?

    O/T rant over :o


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    #159
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    What I cannot fathom, the women (and I am sure there are men doing it too) that seem to be unable to talk about anything but their kids when they are out for a meal/drinks with friends. They shove their phone in your face with pics of their kids and cannot talk about anything else.

    I have one friend who has become terribly boring in this way. Just last weekend she made me look at 283 (yes 283!!) photos on her phone of her kids. She simply has no other topic of conversation. Its a shame because she used to be a fun and funny person. I dont understand how she cannot see that she is actually talking at people and not to them. I wouldnt feel it is the norm though, most parents I know do not do this.


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    #160
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    wolfpawnat wrote: »

    It seems everyone is questioned if they don't want to or just just don't care about following the "norm"

    I couldn't give a monkeys if someone wants or doesn't want babies. But if someone does have children, I do feel strongly that the fathers should have rights to see them. The way they do this is through marriage to the childs mother. It's not about being cool, or trendy, or normal or square. It's just a matter of practicality. Marriage is the the most practical way (for a man) to become guardian, next of kin to his own children, to link the family together for inheritance purposes, and to claim the tax appropriate to a family rather than two single people. Just putting his name on the birth cert means little or nothing legally.

    It's probably in a womans interest to remain single if a break-up is on the cards in the future. She can still chase him for maintenance through the courts if he doesn't contribute this way, and doesn't have to let him see the children at all. No divorce needed to give him the boot. Win win.

    I don't know if that makes me some kind of anti-feminist, but I actually strongly feel that men should have a legal relationship with their own children. Perhaps people have lost sight of the nitty gritty legal purpose of marriage and instead been bamboozled with, and rejected, the pink glitzy heavily consumerist industry that surrounds it.


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    #161
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    pwurple wrote: »
    I couldn't give a monkeys if someone wants or doesn't want babies. But if someone does have children, I do feel strongly that the fathers should have rights to see them. The way they do this is through marriage to the childs mother. It's not about being cool, or trendy, or normal or square. It's just a matter of practicality. Marriage is the the most practical way (for a man) to become guardian, next of kin to his own children, to link the family together for inheritance purposes, and to claim the tax appropriate to a family rather than two single people. Just putting his name on the birth cert means little or nothing legally.

    It's probably in a womans interest to remain single if a break-up is on the cards in the future. She can still chase him for maintenance through the courts if he doesn't contribute this way, and doesn't have to let him see the children at all. No divorce needed to give him the boot. Win win.

    I don't know if that makes me some kind of anti-feminist, but I actually strongly feel that men should have a legal relationship with their own children. Perhaps people have lost sight of the nitty gritty legal purpose of marriage and instead been bamboozled with, and rejected, the pink glitzy heavily consumerist industry that surrounds it.

    Totally OT for a second but you have no idea the cost of getting all this out of marriage, name on birth cert is easily done, but we made wills making sure he would get our son in the case of my death, and we have forked out over €500 on solicitor fees to get him joint guardianship and custody of our son, and as soon as this baby is born we are doing the same again. He is actually in a better position than men who separate from marriage because they are not guaranteed joint custody, he has it. It is a bit of a financial pain, but since it was his idea not to get married he insisted on this at least.


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    #162
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Totally OT for a second but you have no idea the cost of getting all this out of marriage, name on birth cert is easily done, but we made wills making sure he would get our son in the case of my death, and we have forked out over €500 on solicitor fees to get him joint guardianship and custody of our son, and as soon as this baby is born we are doing the same again. He is actually in a better position than men who separate from marriage because they are not guaranteed joint custody, he has it. It is a bit of a financial pain, but since it was his idea not to get married he insisted on this at least.

    I have an idea alright, my cousin did the same. The will can be contested by your parents should they choose to (I would hope they wouldn't). And with that will, any inheritance will be fully taxed instead of tax-free to a spouse. He is not in a better position than men who seperate, he is in exactly the same position. Guardianship can be revoked. You are possibly paying more to the govt currently than you should be, especially with maternity benefit coming shortly. On top of that, he paid 500 for that legal work, and another 500 next year, and another 500 if there's another baby, when 200 euro for the marriage cert would have done the same thing (or 150 euro last year). On the otherhand, if you were both to lose your jobs, you would be claiming as a de facto couple, so wouldn't get the benefits of single people.

    It's not very practical time-wise or financially, but people are free to spend their money on whatever they chose. You wouldn't catch me volunteering to pay more tax than I have to. :)


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    #163
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    username123 wrote: »
    I have one friend who has become terribly boring in this way. Just last weekend she made me look at 283 (yes 283!!) photos on her phone of her kids. She simply has no other topic of conversation. Its a shame because she used to be a fun and funny person. I dont understand how she cannot see that she is actually talking at people and not to them. I wouldnt feel it is the norm though, most parents I know do not do this.

    I went to visit my friend who made me Godmother to her son. She showed me what seemed like thousands of pics of him when I am sure it was only 300. The thing was I was holding him. I could see him from any angle I wanted. I really really hate that. And in the three months she had him, she was more of an expert on the whole child rearing process than anyone else and was telling me about pregnancy, I know about it, this is my second child.

    I don't see it as often with people with no children, but parents seem to think they are experts in everything to do with them. My partner is a vet student in his clinical placement (final bit of the course) and I have people telling me I cannot have a cat and a baby because the cat will go Criminal Minds and plot the child's extravagant death. When you say "Oh sure that only ever happened once or twice, co-sleeping is far more dangerous" (I trained as a nurse so I know this) they will argue til they are blue in the face and have actually said "Sure you wouldn't know." Yes I would, my partner will be a fricken vet in the very near future! :rolleyes::mad:

    I dunno, I am a parent myself and the most of them annoy the hell out of me. I tend to remain silent about the kid thing unless it is brought up, but these days too many women are defined by their roles as mothers and not as the person they are separately too.


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    #164
    Faith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    username123 wrote: »
    I just never get the 'feeling' when I see a baby or small child. I get it when I see an animal (a puppy or kitten) so I know what it is - but I have always felt like Dexter in the presence of women with children - I just do not know what to do or how to interact or what is expected of me.

    I'm the same. I don't get kids. I don't understand what's so fascinating about them :o. Sometimes they do funny things, but other than that, I'm clueless. I hate when kids want me to entertain them because I feel so wooden and awkward.

    Another thing for me is that I'm terrified kids would ruin my relationship. Not just our freedom, but our actual relationship. Having kids isn't easy - I'd fear that the stress could drive us apart, rather than together. I've chosen my partner, I want to spend the rest of my life happily with him, and I don't want to risk anything ruining that! I'm sure kids bring most couples closer together, but what if mine is the one they ruin?

    That fear plus a complete lack of maternal instinct means that having kids is not on my agenda. Maybe in 10 years I'll change my mind, but if I got pregnant in the next few years, it would be a disaster as far as I was concerned.


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    #165
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Faith wrote: »
    I'm the same. I don't get kids. I don't understand what's so fascinating about them :o. Sometimes they do funny things, but other than that, I'm clueless. I hate when kids want me to entertain them because I feel so wooden and awkward.

    Just out of interest, were you exposed to many babies when you were young yourself? I wasnt, I am the youngest child with no close cousins that I saw when I was young. I think I was 12 or 13 before I ever held a baby. And with the associated "SUPPORT THE HEAD, BE CAREFUL!!!!!" I was so nervous that I just wanted them to take the baby back!! I have wondered if it was my lack of exposure to babies that gave me an undeveloped maternal instinct.


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    #166
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    username123 wrote: »
    Just out of interest, were you exposed to many babies when you were young yourself? I wasnt, I am the youngest child with no close cousins that I saw when I was young. I think I was 12 or 13 before I ever held a baby. And with the associated "SUPPORT THE HEAD, BE CAREFUL!!!!!" I was so nervous that I just wanted them to take the baby back!! I have wondered if it was my lack of exposure to babies that gave me an undeveloped maternal instinct.

    I'm the oldest child of 3, and the oldest grandchild of 20something. :D


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    #167
    Cerulean Chicken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,565 ✭✭✭Cerulean Chicken


    I'm the eldest grandchild of 12, with 10 years between me and the next one, so I was taught from then on how to hold them, feed them, wind them, change them. I would happily look after a newborn to 1 year old if I had to, some people get very nervous around tiny babies but I'm grand with them. It's when they're older and want me to play games that I'm no good.


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    #168
    mood
    Registered Users Posts: 4,264 ✭✭✭mood


    Whispered wrote: »
    Do you know or wonder about why you don't? Do you think it's an emotional response, logical, something to do with your past, something hormonal.

    I only recently started thinking about why I don't want them (which I think some people might find insulting so I won't go into here), I don't want to know your reasons, but I'd be really interested to know if the women here who don't want kids know why they don't want them, or is it just the way it is.

    I think most people won't know why they do or don't want kids and I don't think people should feel they have to justify their decisions either way.

    I do want kids myself and hopefully will if I meet the right guy. I don't understand why other people don't want kids but I respect their decision. Not everyone is the same.

    A bit off topic but generally when has the question of kids come up with your exs and current men?


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    #169
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Whispered wrote: »
    I'm the oldest child of 3, and the oldest grandchild of 20something. :D
    Cerulean Chicken wrote: »
    I'm the eldest grandchild of 12, with 10 years between me and the next one, so I was taught from then on how to hold them, feed them, wind them, change them. I would happily look after a newborn to 1 year old if I had to, some people get very nervous around tiny babies but I'm grand with them. It's when they're older and want me to play games that I'm no good.

    Right - not that then!


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    #170
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't have any maternal "go procreate" instinct, and I don't expect to ever hear a tick tock.
    I don't know how much I believe in it, as a biological phenomena.
    I am family orientated, and so I would like my own children for lifestyle reasons.
    If they don't happen. I'll be very sad, but it won't be the end of the world for me.

    mood wrote: »

    A bit off topic but generally when has the question of kids come up with your exs and current men?


    I found when I started dating in the 30's age bracket. The men brought it up during the first date.


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    #171
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    mood wrote: »
    don't think people should feel they have to justify their decisions either way.

    Sorry I probably wasn't clear. I was asking if people themselves know their reasons, or if it's just a feeling of not really wanting them. Not what reasons they give to other people, or feel they should have to give other people, if you know what I mean.


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    #172
    Faith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    username123 wrote: »
    Just out of interest, were you exposed to many babies when you were young yourself? I wasnt, I am the youngest child with no close cousins that I saw when I was young. I think I was 12 or 13 before I ever held a baby. And with the associated "SUPPORT THE HEAD, BE CAREFUL!!!!!" I was so nervous that I just wanted them to take the baby back!! I have wondered if it was my lack of exposure to babies that gave me an undeveloped maternal instinct.

    I'm the youngest of two, with 7 years between us, and the youngest of close to 30 cousins! Growing up, our house was fairly isolated so a lot of my social contact was with people older than me. Even friends who lived nearby were a year or two older. I'm just about to turn 26 and I still prefer to be around people older than me. My OH is 5 years older, and I feel exactly right hanging out with his friends. I'm doing a Masters now where a lot of my classmates are only 21, and as much as I like them, I feel a bit awkward around them because I'm much more aware of my age :o.

    So for me, the theory that it's due to lack of exposure to babies and young kids holds true. My OH is equally unconcerned about having kids, and he's an only child with a small extended family.


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    #173
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Moonbaby wrote: »
    I don't have any maternal "go procreate" instinct, and I don't expect to ever hear a tick tock.
    I don't know how much I believe in it, as a biological phenomena.
    I am family orientated, and so I would like my own children for lifestyle reasons.

    I believe in it, but it's never happened to me. I saw it with one friend of mine directly after she had her first kid. She had never wanted any more than one, but suddenly she was desperate for another one. She was thinking of tricking her OH! Then at 3 months postpartum the urge stopped.

    Yeah, having kids was always a decision for me. I never felt an urge. I'm not gone on babies really, I love kids because you can have really off the wall conversations with them. They're normal people with no filter. It's the family I want, not the babies.


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    #174
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    It's interesting about not growing up around babies. While there are no young kids in my family, I babysat small kids and babies for years when I was in my teens and early 20s, but it was just a job to me.

    I don't feel that draw to pictures of babies that I do with other baby animals! If there's a cat or puppy I can't help but pick it up, play with it, generally coo over it, but I never do the same with babies. I just ignore them.

    Recently my cousin had some kids and some of the things they do can be amusing, but I certainly don't feel any...affection towards them at the moment, for want of a better word. :o


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    #175
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Malari wrote: »

    Recently my cousin had some kids and some of the things they do can be amusing, but I certainly don't feel any...affection towards them at the moment, for want of a better word. :o

    haha even the way you put that is very non-kiddy

    "ah yeah she had some kids" :D

    I know what you mean though. I'm animal mad myself, but it doesn't translate to other people, or babies.


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    #176
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Whispered wrote: »
    haha even the way you put that is very non-kiddy

    "ah yeah she had some kids" :D

    I know what you mean though. I'm animal mad myself, but it doesn't translate to other people, or babies.

    OK, I came across really cold there :D When I'm with her and the kids I'm not like that! I'll talk to them, play with them sometimes, hold the baby, smile at her. The older boy is hilarious, the phrases he comes out with sometimes! But I don't miss them if they are not there. The way I'm always disappointed if a friend's pet is not around when I call over :o:p


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    #177
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I didn't have any interest in babies growing up, never played with dolls or anything like that. My daughter was the first baby I ever held but I always knew I wanted to be a mum. I think it was partly down to my own unhappy childhood with a very emotionally detached mother, I think I was looking for a family of my own to replace the one I came from.


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    #178
    Cerulean Chicken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,565 ✭✭✭Cerulean Chicken


    Das Kitty wrote: »
    I'm not gone on babies really, I love kids because you can have really off the wall conversations with them. They're normal people with no filter. It's the family I want, not the babies.

    I really see a future in us co-owning a child DK, I just want it for the first 10ish months!! It's the off the wall conversations I can't do, I'm like "You're making no sense, quit it, come back to me when you're 26 and can have a proper conversation" :p


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    #179
    Dolbert
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Dolbert


    Moonbaby wrote: »
    I don't have any maternal "go procreate" instinct, and I don't expect to ever hear a tick tock.

    It's hit me like a ton of bricks in the last couple of years :o Rationally I want to wait, but my body clearly wants me to breed!


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    #180
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Malari wrote: »
    OK, I came across really cold there :D When I'm with her and the kids I'm not like that! I'll talk to them, play with them sometimes, hold the baby, smile at her. The older boy is hilarious, the phrases he comes out with sometimes! But I don't miss them if they are not there. The way I'm always disappointed if a friend's pet is not around when I call over :o:p

    You see I kind of just dont notice children. I was in a room with a friend recently and her sister came in with her baby. After a few minutes the sister left the room and left the baby there (she went to the loo or something), I didnt even really notice a child had been left in the room. When the sister came back there was a big exclamation regarding the fact that the child was pulling out of something that could have been dangerous and why had we not intervened. I honestly didnt even notice.


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    #181
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I held baby for the first time when I was 26 or 27. When younger I had no interest in children, I stayed away from people who had them and even now I sometimes don't know what to do with other people's children. I didn't even know that Tesco and Dunnes sell children and baby clothing till someone told me when I had the first one. But I still love the two I have.


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