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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Speed camera mega-thread ***Read first post before posting***
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The RSA webpage you linked to claiming that it backed up your statement that the 30km/h limit made a demonstrable difference in road safety, says no such thing.
The RTE webpage states "However, there is debate over whether the introduction of the 30km speed limit in parts of the city area in early 2010 has helped." which certainly isn't definitive.
In short, you're lying yet again, misusing statistics yet again. If you had even the slightest knowledge of statistics, you'd know that "correlation does not equal causation" is the most basic tenet of the field.
I don't know why I bother tbh.
The first linked webpage includes this:
The RSA and AGS are now saying that Dublin has the safest roads of all EU capital cities (based on the reduction in road deaths).
There was a marked drop in road deaths following the implementation of the 30 km/h zone.
"Correlation doesn't equal causation" is only applicable as a caveat where there is serious doubt regarding cause and effect.
Two well-established factors are relevant here: (1) reducing speed decreases both crash risk and crash severity, and (2) there is a substantial body of evidence showing that 30kph/20mph zones reduce road casualties.
The National Pedestrian Safety Action Plan states the following:Across Europe, the introduction of low speed zones (typically 30kph) has been successfully implemented in residential areas, around schools and in shopping areas, with reductions in serious collisions by up to 70% noted.
No lies there, or in any of my contributions on the subject. I've reported your abusive misrepresentation of my posts, by the way.
The RTE link is a news story, not an independent research report. Of course Conor Faughnan is disputing the reasons for the drop in fatalities. Faughnan, chief cheerleader of the motoring lobby in Ireland, made the absurd claim before the zone was introduced that there is no safety case for a 30 km/h speed limit.
There are no doubts whatsoever regarding the causal link between the implementation of low speed zones and casualty reductions.
Do you have evidence to the contrary, yes or no?
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Our man in Havana wrote: »http://www.rsa.ie/PageFiles/7018/Garda On Bus Poster v5 September 2012 Hi Res.jpg
Yes those roads must be safe as they have banned all types of traffic from them.
Ho ho ho. :pac:
On a slightly more serious note: are you moderating this thread/forum?0 -
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You were very explicit: there is no such thing as safe speeding.Iwannahurl wrote: »It's just a red herring to focus on a specific stretch of road, as if it were possible to extrapolate from the particular to the general using such an instance.
I don't care where you got that statement from, you posted it and you were very explicit in claiming it to be reality.
I put it to you that there IS such as thing as safe speeding, both in explicit cases such as the N85 out of Ennis (my example above) and also somewhat more murky cases such as urban peripheries with good visibility and where the driver can clearly see there are no pedestrians/cyclists to worry about.
You went to great lengths in another thread to point out that I got my driving license in 2008 (I am still waiting for an explanation for that btw). So I have 5 years driving experience of treating other road users, especially children, animals, pedestrians and cyclists with considerable respect. Even still I try to avoid conceit, thinking "I'm a great driver" lest I cause an accident through cockiness; A certain E.J. Smith and crew put to the seas with a new ship in 1912 that they thought 'unsinkable' and we all know how that turned out.The substantial body of research on speed and crash risk is not going to be challenged by your 50 km/h Type 1 DC example.
This is reflected in my insurance premiums and spotless driving history. So I can safely say from the depths of this experience that when speed limits are broken in a considered way, giving proper regard to the surroundings, that there IS such a thing as safe "speeding."
I do. And I don't care who originally wrote it - YOU posted it, and I expect YOU to either defend it or withdraw it.If you have a problem with the phrase "there is no such thing as safe speeding" and you can comprehensively refute the notion with your specific example(s) then perhaps you could bring the matter to the attention of the authors of the piece, ie the government of New South Wales.
That's not necessarily a bad idea - to have permanent speed traps at accident blackspots. I'll give you one example, Carrickboy, Co. Longford. A village on the N55 with a 60kph speed limit, cars mostly respect it but lorries not so much (from what I remember of a newspaper article some time back) and there is one house in particular that has had repeated occurances of lorries losing control and crashing through their garden wall. Why they've had problems there and not elsewhere on that road I don't know, but it seems to suggest that enforcing the 60kph limit there explicity would gain more than other locations.If people who deliberately break the law are notified in advance of where and when the speed detection operations are, they'll just slow down at those locations and continue breaking the law elsewhere.0 -
This is reflected in my insurance premiums and spotless driving history. So I can safely say from the depths of this experience that when speed limits are broken in a considered way, giving proper regard to the surroundings, that there IS such a thing as safe "speeding."
I do. And I don't care who originally wrote it - YOU posted it, and I expect YOU to either defend it or withdraw it.
I ain't withdrawing nothing, and I've said all I'm going to say on that particular point. So solly.
The "spotless driving history" is a good example IMO of the faulty thinking alluded to by, among others, those awful people in NSW.
I presume you're saying that (a) you break the speed limit when you see fit, (b) you haven't had a crash yet, and (c) you haven't received any penalty points or speeding fines yet?
If so, that is not the same as demonstrating that you are absolutely in the right, either in your driving or in your reasoning.
The relative risk of higher versus lower speed is well established, but the absolute risk (ie the probability that an adverse event will occur in, say, a given time period or situation) is much less certain.
161 people died on Irish roads last year, yet hundreds of thousands of us go out every day and drive, cycle or walk without incident.
However, we know from experience (and innumerable Boards threads ) that dangerous, careless, inconsiderate or just ordinarily bad driving occurs on a daily basis.
Lots of people believe they are doing nothing wrong because they get home safely and without incident most of the time. Every time they return and park their car outside the house without a scratch on themselves or their motor, and without having had so much as an irritated beep in their direction, they're a little more convinced that they're a good driver. Well above average in fact.
It's possible to be a bad driver for years and never realise it, because it's never demonstrated to you. That's where legislation, enforcement and safer systems are necessary, because feedback and error correction are essential elements in improving driver behaviour.
Effective prevention of road deaths and serious injuries requires a focus on mitigating or eliminating risk factors at population level if at all possible. Speed limits and law enforcement (ideally rigorous, IMO) are essential measures in the attempt to prevent a proportion of people's normally incident-free daily trips turning into something a lot worse.
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So you are not withdrawing the claim, but not defending it either (because you can't, at least not without waffling). Just as I expected.Iwannahurl wrote: »I ain't withdrawing nothing, and I've said all I'm going to say on that particular point. So solly.
All correct. Though I've passed plenty of speed traps, they've been located in areas where you shouldn't be speeding anyway, and I do not take the piss.I presume you're saying that (a) you break the speed limit when you see fit, (b) you haven't had a crash yet, and (c) you haven't received any penalty points or speeding fines yet?
Again, I am not suggesting that anyone should race through a city centre at 80kph. I am merely suggesting that:If so, that is not the same as demonstrating that you are absolutely in the right, either in your driving or in your reasoning.- There are some ridiculous speed limits such as dual carriageways with 50kph limits.
- There are some debatable cases where the speed limit does not necessarily reflect safe driving speeds. Examples here would be dual carriageways and some urban outskirts limits.
Which I try to avoid. As I said, I make it a point to treat other road users with respect.However, we know from experience (and innumerable Boards threads ) that dangerous, careless, inconsiderate or just ordinarily bad driving occurs on a daily basis.
Which I also try to avoid.
It's possible, but you're starting to stretch things here. You do realise that we have a driving test? That you can't just waltz into Tesco and come out with a driving license? And a busy traffic corps?It's possible to be a bad driver for years and never realise it, because it's never demonstrated to you.
What is this trying to say?0
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