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Playing Hard to Get

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    #182
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Siuin wrote: »
    I must say, I find this whole supply/demand thing rather bizarre and unnatural- I've never had to withhold sex in previous relationships in order to gain the upper hand or whatever. That said, I've never actually wanted to take over power from my partner, since I believe in having a relationship where everyone's on equal footing and doesn't lord over the other.

    You haven't that doesn't mean it doesn't happen generally.

    Why do women hate "sluts" when "sluts" are doing absolutely nothin wrong?

    I'll tell you what I think, lots of women hate "sluts" because the more free sex for men that exists the harder it is to make a man commit and to follow their demands in the household.


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    #183
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    You haven't that doesn't mean it doesn't happen generally.

    Why do women hate "sluts" when "sluts" are doing absolutely nothin wrong?

    I'll tell you what I think, lots of women hate "sluts" because the more free sex for men that exists the harder it is to make a man commit and to follow their demands in the household.

    So much wrong with the one post... I'd like to think you were simply taking the piss, but unfortunately this mindset actually exists. I'm not sure what's worse- your free use of the term 'slut' or the fact that you think so little of your own kind to believe that men are unable to settle down of their own accord and need a woman to trade off sex in order to pressure him into making a committment. What ever happened to actually loving your partner?


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    #184
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Siuin wrote: »

    So much wrong with the one post... I'd like to think you were simply taking the piss, but unfortunately this mindset actually exists. I'm not sure what's worse- your free use of the term 'slut' or the fact that you think so little of your own kind to believe that men are unable to settle down of their own accord and need a woman to trade off sex in order to pressure him into making a committment. What ever happened to actually loving your partner?

    Well let me know what's wrong with the post so it can be discussed. The word "slut" was in quotes as that is the word women use to insult promiscuous women who are doing nothing wrong.

    I'm one person. Men aren't "my own kind".

    I'm discussing this issue non judgementally.

    People love people. I don't dispute that. Do you think the same number of men would choose to commit to one woman if they could walk out their front door and have sex with any attractive woman they wanted?


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    #185
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Well let me know what's wrong with the post so it can be discussed. The word "slut" was in quotes as that is the word women use to insult promiscuous women who are doing nothing wrong.

    I'm one person. Men aren't "my own kind".

    I'm discussing this issue non judgementally.

    People love people. I don't dispute that. Do you think the same number of men would choose to commit to one woman if they could walk out their front door and have sex with any attractive woman they wanted?

    Where exactly in my posts did I ever promulgate women throwing themselves at every man who darkens her door step. Many people on this thread have completely twisted what I originally said as some kind of sexual free for all. My point was that women should be allowed to sleep with a man if she wishes to without fear of being lambasted by 'traditionalist' do-gooders for her actions.

    Tell me; how many of your friends decided to marry their now wives because she told them she'd stop having sex with him if he didn't? Sex isn't a pawn to reign control over men.


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    #186
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Siuin wrote: »
    Sex isn't a pawn to reign control over men.
    I'm glad you think that, but there are women out there you do use sex to get what they want out of their partners.


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    #187
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Siuin wrote: »

    Where exactly in my posts did I ever promulgate women throwing themselves at every man who darkens her door step. Many people on this thread have completely twisted what I originally said as some kind of sexual free for all. My point was that women should be allowed to sleep with a man if she wishes to without fear of being lambasted by 'traditionalist' do-gooders for her actions.

    Tell me; how many of your friends decided to marry their now wives because she told them she'd stop having sex with him if he didn't? Sex isn't a pawn to reign control over men.

    Your point is that "women should be allowed sleep with whoever they want without fear".

    When did I disagree with that?

    Many women hate openly promiscuous women because it makes it harder to have a man commit and gain a degree of power over him.

    Sex is most definitely used as a pawn to gain control over men why otherwise would women hate promiscuous women?


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    #188
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    smash wrote: »
    I'm glad you think that, but there are women out there you do use sex to get what they want out of their partners.
    Then shame on them. My point is that reality doesn't match the ideal in many areas of men and women's sexual interplay.


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    #189
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Your point is that "women should be allowed sleep with whoever they want without fear".

    When did I disagree with that?

    Many women hate openly promiscuous women because it makes it harder to have a man commit and gain a degree of power over him.

    Sex is most definitely used as a pawn to gain control over men why otherwise would women hate promiscuous women?
    Many women openly hate beautiful women. Doesn't mean they should stop being beautiful or that there is anything wrong with being beautiful.


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    #190
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Siuin wrote: »
    Then shame on them. My point is that reality doesn't match the ideal in many areas of men and women's sexual interplay.
    I blame Hollywood romcoms!


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    #191
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Siuin wrote: »
    Many women openly hate beautiful women. Doesn't mean they should stop being beautiful or that there is anything wrong with being beautiful.

    Do you actually think I think there is something wrong with being promiscuous?

    Men don't hate promiscuous women they don't even know. Women often do. This is because they reduce their power over men.


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    #192
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Men don't hate promiscuous women they don't even know. Women often do. This is because they reduce their power over men.
    Maybe they just think its disgusting. I know a lot of guys who wouldn't go out with or even shag someone who sleeps around. They find it a complete turn off.


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    #193
    dizzywizlw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 584 ✭✭✭dizzywizlw


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Do you actually think I think there is something wrong with being promiscuous?

    There isn't ? :confused:


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    #194
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    smash wrote: »
    Maybe they just think its disgusting. I know a lot of guys who wouldn't go out with or even shag someone who sleeps around. They find it a complete turn off.

    Hate is very strong for something they just find disgusting. I find blue steak disgusting but you wouldn't see hatred in my eyes after seeing someone eat it.


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    #195
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    dizzywizlw wrote: »

    There isn't ? :confused:


    I certainly don't see anything wrong with being promiscuous or slutty. If someone wants to sleep around and enjoy themselves good luck to them. It's no one else's business.


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    #196
    CdeC
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭CdeC


    I do think that lads seem to prefer a bit of work. They feel like they charmed and seduced a woman through their amazing pulling powers.
    It just makes sense and lads like to feel that they have worked for the girls affections.


    I'd never judge a girl for hopping into bed on the first date but I think it is better if you hold off until you are a bit more relaxed with eachother and know eachother a bit better. Especially if it's a stranger.


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    #197
    dizzywizlw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 584 ✭✭✭dizzywizlw


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    I certainly don't see anything wrong with being promiscuous or slutty. If someone wants to sleep around and enjoy themselves good luck to them. It's no one else's business.

    I'm in the minority that believes sex isn't just a thing to do for fun :/ most of my friends are gigantic whores. I don't dislike them for it, I just think what they are doing is bad for them and bad for society. Really the only time I'd judge on that is when looking for a partner, which I have. I view promiscuity and binge drinking as the same manner of thing, something that isn't really 'nice' to do but a lot of people do and is seen as the 'thing to do' and an expression of freedom. I happen to dislike both but I take your point.


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    #198
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Sorcha16 wrote: »
    Au contraire 'my dear', I appreciate equality as much as the next person. As a traditionalist, what I don't appreciate is feminism and the increasingly complex and hypocritical assertions made by those who pledge their bra-burning allegiance to it.

    I'm whole-heartedly sick of this nonsense being peddled that you're somehow liberated and equal for giving in to your every sexual whim. I think physical relationships are absolutely fantastic but it is not, nor will it ever be attractive to be riding around like Shergar.

    Sleep with Santa Claus for all I care but keep it discreet because there is nothing less sexy than sharing your intimate details with the world

    Let's just clear some things up here for those posters who weren't bothered to read and digest the OP.

    Firstly, there was no mention by the poster of giving in to your every sexual whim. She's specifically talking about one area of sexual relations. Pure hyperbolic nonsense from some posters here.

    Secondly, you need to look up what feminism means. You're idea of what it means to most of us is quite warped.

    Thirdly, this thread is not about sleeping around (that's a discussion for another thread), it's about sleeping with someone on the first date. For some reason, posters on here have confused the two. Some women hold out in order to give the impression they're not "sluts" but the very fact that WOMEN are judged (not men) as sluts for deciding to have consensual, safe sex with someone because she wants to instead of waiting 'till the second or third date are judged so harshly (in turn, perpetuating the sexist judgement) is the topic of discussion here. Siuin simply believes it's unfair and I agree. I've never burnt a bra in my life.

    A might woman not sleep around but she might decide to sleep with a man she really fancies and likes on the first date. People seem to be purposely confusing the two as an excuse to get their knickers in a twist and mount their high horses.


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    #199
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    dizzywizlw wrote: »
    I'm in the minority that believes sex isn't just a thing to do for fun :/ most of my friends are gigantic whores. I don't dislike them for it, I just think what they are doing is bad for them and bad for society.
    Jesus Christ. With friends like you, who needs enemies? I'm pretty sure that if your 'friends' knew how harshly you were judging them, they wouldn't be your friends at all. Tbh your nasty attitude is much worse for society than what anyone does within the privacy of their own bedrooms.


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    #200
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Hate is very strong for something they just find disgusting. I find blue steak disgusting but you wouldn't see hatred in my eyes after seeing someone eat it.
    I didn't say hate though, you did.


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    #201
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    CdeC wrote: »
    I do think that lads seem to prefer a bit of work. They feel like they charmed and seduced a woman through their amazing pulling powers.
    It just makes sense and lads like to feel that they have worked for the girls affections.


    I'd never judge a girl for hopping into bed on the first date but I think it is better if you hold off until you are a bit more relaxed with eachother and know eachother a bit better. Especially if it's a stranger.

    So you're advocating playing games? Most men I know hate games.


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    #202
    dizzywizlw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 584 ✭✭✭dizzywizlw


    Siuin wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. With friends like you, who needs enemies? I'm pretty sure that if your 'friends' knew how harshly you were judging them, they wouldn't be your friends at all. Tbh your nasty attitude is much worse for society than what anyone does within the privacy of their own bedrooms.

    Funny, you assume that A) My Friends a I don't discuss things like this ( we do, I don't preach, I give an opinion if asked) and B) That I judge their entire person with regard to their sexual habit, I do not.

    You know nothing about myself, my friends or our respective friendships. Calling the promiscuous one 'gigantic whores' may have been an error in judgement but believe me, the ones that have slept with 7 women/men in 7 consecutive days as well as numerous people in relationships have branded themselves as much to myself and our other friends. I should probably clarify that most of my friends are students at two of the most promiscuous Unis in UK/Ireland.

    If you ride a lot of people a lot of the time, guess what? You aren't liberated, you're a whore.


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    #203
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    I find it bizarre that some guys would prefer a woman to pretend she's coy and hard-to-get (when she's probably as mad about you as you are her and wants to sleep with you too) rather than be sincere and honest about what she wants (like a man can). A man would prefer a woman to pretend she's something she's not than be sincere? Whatever floats your boat. Great start to a relationship. Not.


    I have no problems waiting a while to get to know a guy before sleeping with him if that's what you want - I've done it myself in the past - but that's not the same thing has purposely holding off to play hard-to-get for fear of being viewed as a "slut".


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    #204
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    dizzywizlw wrote: »
    Funny, you assume that A) My Friends a I don't discuss things like this ( we do, I don't preach, I give an opinion if asked) and B) That I judge their entire person with regard to their sexual habit, I do not.

    You know nothing about myself, my friends or our respective friendships. Calling the promiscuous one 'gigantic whores' may have been an error in judgement but believe me, the ones that have slept with 7 women/men in 7 consecutive days as well as numerous people in relationships have branded themselves as much to myself and our other friends. I should probably clarify that most of my friends are students at two of the most promiscuous Unis in UK/Ireland.

    If you ride a lot of people a lot of the time, guess what? You aren't liberated, you're a whore.

    Wait there, again, have you accidently posted on the wrong thread? This thread is about sleeping with a guy on the first date, not sleeping with multiple men. If people can't be bothered to actually read and respond to what was written in the OP, then what's the point? We'll just chat about any old topic that springs to mind, shall we?


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    #205
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    dizzywizlw wrote: »
    Funny, you assume that A) My Friends a I don't discuss things like this ( we do, I don't preach, I give an opinion if asked) and B) That I judge their entire person with regard to their sexual habit, I do not.

    You know nothing about myself, my friends or our respective friendships. Calling the promiscuous one 'gigantic whores' may have been an error in judgement but believe me, the ones that have slept with 7 women/men in 7 consecutive days as well as numerous people in relationships have branded themselves as much to myself and our other friends. I should probably clarify that most of my friends are students at two of the most promiscuous Unis in UK/Ireland.

    If you ride a lot of people a lot of the time, guess what? You aren't liberated, you're a whore.
    This thread isn't about sleeping around (I don't know how many times I'm going to have to drill this into posters' heads before it finally gets through) - it's about women being entitled to sleep with a man without being forced to abide by arbitrary social protocol in order to establish herself as a person of value. While I'm sure you're eager to prove yourself as a woman of honour, please cut the condescening BS by labelling entire universities as 'promiscuous'.


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    #206
    CdeC
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭CdeC


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    So you're advocating playing games? Most men I know hate games.


    Well if you want to call it games then fair enough but it is what it is.

    Most lads hate when woman are all hot and cold. They refer as games to when a girl is all keen one minute than doesn't want to know the next. That's what they hate.

    I say most girls hate the same thing.

    I know it seems stupid to call on some dating protocol but you cant get away from the fact that MOST of the time the guy is the pursuer and the one doing the chasing.


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    #207
    dizzywizlw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 584 ✭✭✭dizzywizlw


    Siuin wrote: »
    This thread isn't about sleeping around (I don't know how many times I'm going to have to drill this into posters' heads before it finally gets through) - it's about women being entitled to sleep with a man without being forced to abide by arbitrary social protocol in order to establish herself as a person of value. While I'm sure you're eager to prove yourself as a woman of honour, please cut the condescening BS by labelling entire universities as 'promiscuous'.

    I'm a man :eek:

    As for waiting due to Social Protocol, I agree that seems arbitrary. As for the condescending labeling of a Uni as promiscuous

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/279024

    Lived there for a year...


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    #208
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    CdeC wrote: »
    Well if you want to call it games then fair enough but it is what it is.

    Most lads hate when woman are all hot and cold. They refer as games to when a girl is all keen one minute than doesn't want to know the next. That's what they hate.

    I say most girls hate the same thing.

    I know it seems stupid to call on some dating protocol but you cant get away from the fact that MOST of the time the guy is the pursuer and the one doing the chasing.

    Like pretending they're not interested when they really are? Like sending a man home when she likes him and wants to sleep with him as much as he does? It seems some men say they don't like games but have no problems if a woman pretends she's hard-to-get (like it's the bloody 1950s here). I've no time for it. Thank fook I've always met men who like sincerity and have actually found a woman who likes sex desirable over a woman who chooses to perpetuate sexist judgements placed on her and pretends to be coy and hard-to-get.


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    #209
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    dizzywizlw wrote: »
    I'm a man :eek:

    As for waiting due to Social Protocol, I agree that seems arbitrary. As for the condescending labeling of a Uni as promiscuous

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/279024

    Lived there for a year...

    The Daily Star! Why, you should have said- sher we all know what a reputable newspaper that is. Clearly the entire seaside town of Aberystwyth is simply full of whores and hussies. Thanks for clearing that up. Where'd the slutty universities go, though?


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    #210
    dizzywizlw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 584 ✭✭✭dizzywizlw


    Siuin wrote: »
    The Daily Star! Why, you should have said- sher we all know what a reputable newspaper that is. Clearly the entire seaside town of Aberystwyth is simply full of whores and hussies. Thanks for clearing that up. Where'd the slutty universities go, though?

    1.I used it merely because you said I was condescending for relaying life experience and it is topical.
    2. If you spend one weekend here you would not think me condescending.
    3. I know what the thread is about
    4. By and large sex takes a man and a woman so I apologize if the odd reference to the penis in the equation slipped in.
    5. I referenced friends, you responded to it encompassing my whole group of friends, I thought it best not to merely point out the behavior of female friends.
    6 I'm a man, just to reiterate that in case your anger stemmed from some sort of affront my gender would cause you

    So I'll try and re-jig my original statement to suit you.

    Quite a significant proportion of my female acquaintances often engage in intercourse with men and women they have only just met. Whilst I do not believe that this cheapens their ability to be a friend to be and do not actively try to dissuade them from such behavior unless they are already in a relationship I believe it is evident that such behavior cheapens themselves and makes a moniker of prostitution apt to the situation at hand. While arguments can be made as to the arbitrary nature of delaying intercourse, advocating waiting until you truly know and are comfortable with the person in question is something I feel strongly about and should be self evident.


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    #211
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    dizzywizlw wrote: »
    1.I used it merely because you said I was condescending for relaying life experience and it is topical.
    2. If you spend one weekend here you would not think me condescending.
    3. I know what the thread is about
    4. By and large sex takes a man and a woman so I apologize if the odd reference to the penis in the equation slipped in.
    5. I referenced friends, you responded to it encompassing my whole group of friends, I thought it best not to merely point out the behavior of female friends.
    6 I'm a man, just to reiterate that in case your anger stemmed from some sort of affront my gender would cause you

    So I'll try and re-jig my original statement to suit you.

    Quite a significant proportion of my female acquaintances often engage in intercourse with men and women they have only just met. Whilst I do not believe that this cheapens their ability to be a friend to be and do not actively try to dissuade them from such behavior unless they are already in a relationship I believe it is evident that such behavior cheapens themselves and gives them and makes a moniker of prostitution apt to the situation at hand. While arguments can be made as to the arbitrary nature of delaying intercourse, advocating waiting until you truly know and are comfortable with the person in question is something I feel strongly about and should be self evident.

    And the bit I've put in bold is this exactly what she's arguing and not those who want to wait a while in order to get to know someone a bit better. I don't know for sure but I'm guessing Siuin would have no problems with the latter if that what someone genuinely wants to do.


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