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Playing Hard to Get

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    #152
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    daisybelle2008 wrote: »
    The *you* and *he* in my post were referring to the hypothetical guy we were discussing up to that point, not you personally. One might have been better.

    Below was posted with my post quoted above it... One might have been better.
    daisybelle2008 wrote: »
    You have already justified the need for punishment by agreeeing the woman deserves no respect.
    daisybelle2008 wrote: »
    Your information is not to personal for me, but you really don't understand the difference between fact and opinion. As you feel your opinion is fact there is really no need for you to offer it as it nullifies the need for a discussion at all.

    No I believe other people's opinions of me have been determined because of facts I do in front of them for example:

    Being easy to have sex with and showing no respect for my body.


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    #153
    daisybelle2008
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭daisybelle2008


    otto_26 wrote: »
    We are talking about opinion and facts? Your claiming I'm being judgemental when I tell a person facts.

    I'm easy to have sex with. That's not an opinion that's fact.

    I don't have respect for my body I'm willing to sleep with strangers regardless of the dangers I present to my body. That's not an opinion that's fact.

    Why is it judgemental for someone to tell me I'm easy?

    Why is it judgemental for someone to tell me I don't have respect for my body?

    I am easy and don't have Respect these are facts? And I show people these facts by the way I act...

    A fact is quantifiable and fixed. A judgement is fluid and subjective. 'Respect' is not a fact it is a fluid, subjective judgement.


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    #154
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Huh?

    What if you slept with the person on the 50th date but he told you he'd HIV 10 years later?

    You stated that jumping into bed with someone immediately was dangerous which implies that waiting is less so. I'm asking you why.

    I'm not really interested in going around in circles about the technical ins and outs about how much or less dangerous it is.. I mean you can of course meet someone like that who will tell you on the 50th date but you can also meet someone who will tell you on the 3rd date. Making it safer for you to choose if you want to put your body at that type of risk. Also if you date someone for a bit you can also see if they are the type of person you want to sleep with.. but I guess everyone to their own..

    What about the opinion and facts we were discussing?


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    #155
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    daisybelle2008 wrote: »
    A fact is quantifiable and fixed. A judgement is fluid and subjective. 'Respect' is not a fact it is a fluid, subjective judgement.

    So... if I do stuff in front of people they receive facts about me... if I keep doing these things the person then sees that these things are facts about me. which they are.

    If I'm easy to have sex with then I'm easy!! :rolleyes:


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    #156
    daisybelle2008
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭daisybelle2008


    ViveLaVie wrote: »
    Some of the people decrying others on here for being judgemental are being just as judgemental themselves. 'Tiny socially conditioned minds' is one such horribly judgemental comment.

    That was used in my post, it was not directed at a poster, the point I was making is that misogynistic behaviour is small minded and socially conditioned like racism or homophobia, not with a scientific justification. And it is a judgement not a fact about those behaviours. I feel they are wrong, that is an opinion not a fact.


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    #157
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    otto_26 wrote: »
    I'm not really interested in going around in circles about the technical ins and outs about how much or less dangerous it is.. I mean you can of course meet someone like that who will tell you on the 50th date but you can also meet someone who will tell you on the 3rd date. Making it safer for you to choose if you want to put your body at that type of risk. Also if you date someone for a bit you can also see if they are the type of person you want to sleep with.. but I guess everyone to their own..

    What about the opinion and facts we were discussing?

    Why aren't you interested considering it's your main point? If you're not going to back up your "facts" with facts, then there's no discussion. You know as well as I do if you stop and think about it, that a person is not in any more danger sleeping with someone on the 1st date. It's preposterous. If someone has HIV and they are a responsible person and a decent human being, they will tell you on the first date if you decide to sleep with them. If they're not responsible and a decent human being, then they won't tell you on the 1st date and they won't tell you on the 2nd or 3rd date either.


    And of course, HIV is the very worst case scenario. Let's be more realistic here. Protected sex on the 1st date is not any more dangerous than protected sex on the 5th date, so I fail to see how you're disrespecting yourself if you're careful and use protection and you're doing something you want to do and it's consensual.


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    #158
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    daisybelle2008 wrote: »
    That was used in my post, it was not directed at a poster, the point I was making is that misogynistic behaviour is small minded and socially conditioned like racism or homophobia, not with a scientific justification. And it is a judgement not a fact about those behaviours. I feel they are wrong, that is an opinion not a fact.

    Socially conditioned!! are you saying that if there are two girls living in my street and I choose to go out with one of them over the other because I like the fact one of them doesn't sleep around that I'm socially conditioned!:rolleyes:

    Have you ever considered that everyone is different and that the fact that a guy might prefer to be with a girl that hasn't been jumping in and out of bed with strangers as just him preferring that rather then he must be socially conditioned because it goes again what I want people to like or dislike???

    If I'm easy to have sex with. Then I'm just easy. If someone says I'm easy then I say yes I am that is a fact about me.


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    #159
    daisybelle2008
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭daisybelle2008


    otto_26 wrote: »
    So... if I do stuff in front of people they receive facts about me... if I keep doing these things the person then sees that these things are facts about me. which they are.

    If I'm easy to have sex with then I'm easy!! :rolleyes:

    We are talking about 'easy' in a pejorative sense. That is a judgement about your behaviour that no two people will offer an identical quantitative conclusion on an empirical value......

    I give up, you don't WANT know the difference between fact and opinion...

    Some people might think you are not easy unless you are giving homeless guys blowies, is that what you mean by you are easy sexually, because if not then you are a little bit more fussy than you imply. Are we still talking about you.


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    #160
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    otto_26 wrote: »
    So... if I do stuff in front of people they receive facts about me... if I keep doing these things the person then sees that these things are facts about me. which they are.

    If I'm easy to have sex with then I'm easy!! :rolleyes:

    If someone is easy to have sex with, I presume they like sex and fancy me. The fact that our views differ but are both valid proves it's not a fact but an opinion.


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    #161
    alphabeat
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭alphabeat


    you must be young , no one plays hard to get once they are 40 +


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    #162
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Why aren't you interested considering it's your main point? If you're not going to back up your "facts" with facts, then there's no discussion. You know as well as I do if you stop and think about it, that a person is not in any more danger sleeping with someone on the 1st date. It's preposterous. If someone has HIV and they are a responsible person and a decent human being, they will tell you on the first date if you decide to sleep with them. If they're not responsible and a decent human being, then they won't tell you on the 1st date and they won't tell you on the 2nd or 3rd date either.

    I've given you my facts. I'm not interested in going around in circles you say it's not dangerous I say it is for another 2 pages its just boring. I've given you a point and backed it up with a scenario about how it could be dangerous and you have said no doesn't count. OK doesn't count.

    What about being easy and that being a fact or judgement was one of my main points too? or would you rather ignore that?


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    #163
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    otto_26 wrote: »
    I've given you my facts. I'm not interested in going around in circles you say it's not dangerous I say it is for another 2 pages its just boring. I've given you a point and backed it up with a scenario about how it could be dangerous and you have said no doesn't count. OK doesn't count.

    What about being easy and that being a fact or judgement was one of my main points too? or would you rather ignore that?

    What? Seriously, wha? :confused:


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    #164
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    If someone is easy to have sex with, I presume they like sex and fancy me. The fact that our views differ but are both valid proves it's not a fact but an opinion.

    If one of my friends says to a girl "see that boy over there he's easy to have sex with".

    That's not opinion that's fact because he knows for a fact I'm easy to have sex with.


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    #165
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    otto_26 wrote: »
    If one of my friends says to a girl "see that boy over there he's easy to have sex with".

    That's not opinion that's fact because he knows for a fact I'm easy to have sex with.

    Right. You're all over the shop there, so the discussion between you and me ends there. Sleep tight!


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    #166
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    What? Seriously, wha? :confused:

    What about being easy and that being a fact or judgement was one of my main points too? or would you rather ignore that?


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    #167
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Right. You're all over the shop there, so the discussion between you and me ends there. Sleep tight!

    One could have been better. ;)

    Sleep tight!


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    #168
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    otto_26 wrote: »
    What about being easy and that being a fact or judgement was one of my main points too? or would you rather ignore that?

    Reread what you wrote there. It makes zero sense.


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    #169
    daisybelle2008
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭daisybelle2008


    otto_26 wrote: »
    If one of my friends says to a girl "see that boy over there he's easy to have sex with".

    That's not opinion that's fact because he knows for a fact I'm easy to have sex with.

    it is when it used as a pejorative.


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    #170
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    All I can say is I GUARANTEE, Siuin, you'd like me when you first meet me......I SWEAR!!!


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    #171
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    asherbassad wrote: »
    All I can say is I GUARANTEE, Siuin, you'd like me when you first meet me......I SWEAR!!!
    Lol! Well, unfortunately I mentioned my current situation in post #150, but had we met in another life, who knows lol


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    #172
    ArtSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    the aul playing hard to get - ie acting against one's nature to comply with a set of moral 'codes' one didn't conceive of. yeah, sad stuff. It's a Catholic thing, for sure - but dying out. thankfully.


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    #173
    Sorcha16
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭Sorcha16


    Siuin wrote: »
    Just as an update on the original post- things actually turned in my favour with that guy my 'friend' told me I should have played games with to keep keen. He told me that he really liked how I wasn't like the other girls and was so honest with him.

    Just got invited to meet his family this weekend...
    Just sayin' :cool:
    *giddy as a Catholic school girl!!* :D

    So if you're such an independent, liberated feminist, why is some guy's approval of you making you pee your pants with excitement?


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    #174
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    ArtSmart wrote: »
    the aul playing hard to get - ie acting against one's nature to comply with a set of moral 'codes' one didn't conceive of. yeah, sad stuff. It's a Catholic thing, for sure - but dying out. thankfully.

    Not sure if it is a Catholic thing. Fairly common among women in the States even now. I remember reading this article a while ago - it was written 10 years ago thought, so perhaps things have changed.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/its-hard-dating-american-women-6318739.html


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    #175
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Sorcha16 wrote: »
    So if you're such an independent, liberated feminist, why is some guy's approval of you making you pee your pants with excitement?

    Firstly, when did she claim to be any of these things and even still, feminists can get excited when a man they like likes them back. Feminists have relationships with men. You don't seen to understand what feminism means. Totally unnecessary dig there, Sorcha.


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    #176
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    Sorcha16 wrote: »
    So if you're such an independent, liberated feminist, why is some guy's approval of you making you pee your pants with excitement?

    Believe it or not even feminists fall in love, my dear Sorcha :) And it's not his approval which I sought, but his reciprocation of my feelings.
    I always find it funny when a fellow female uses the word 'feminist' as if it's a derrogatory term- one would think that all women would appreciate equality and fair treatment with their male counterparts, but alas not everyone is an enlightened.


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    #177
    Sorcha16
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭Sorcha16


    Siuin wrote: »
    Believe it or not even feminists fall in love, my dear Sorcha :) And it's not his approval which I sought, but his reciprocation of my feelings.
    I always find it funny when a fellow female uses the word 'feminist' as if it's a derrogatory term- one would think that all women would appreciate equality and fair treatment with their male counterparts, but alas not everyone is an enlightened.

    Au contraire 'my dear', I appreciate equality as much as the next person. As a traditionalist, what I don't appreciate is feminism and the increasingly complex and hypocritical assertions made by those who pledge their bra-burning allegiance to it.

    I'm whole-heartedly sick of this nonsense being peddled that you're somehow liberated and equal for giving in to your every sexual whim. I think physical relationships are absolutely fantastic but it is not, nor will it ever be attractive to be riding around like Shergar.

    Sleep with Santa Claus for all I care but keep it discreet because there is nothing less sexy than sharing your intimate details with the world


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    #178
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    Sorcha16 wrote: »
    Au contraire 'my dear', I appreciate equality as much as the next person. As a traditionalist, what I don't appreciate is feminism and the increasingly complex and hypocritical assertions made by those who pledge their bra-burning allegiance to it.
    You do realise that feminism is simply "The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men", right? If you can't reconcile your so-called traditionalism with basic equality with the opposite sex, I really do pity you.
    Sorcha16 wrote: »
    I'm whole-heartedly sick of this nonsense being peddled that you're somehow liberated and equal for giving in to your every sexual whim. I think physical relationships are absolutely fantastic but it is not, nor will it ever be attractive to be riding around like Shergar.

    Sleep with Santa Claus for all I care but keep it discreet because there is nothing less sexy than sharing your intimate details with the world
    If you had actually bothered to read my posts you would have realised by now that I am not advocating sleeping around. I am, however, stating that a double standard exists when it comes to judging the sexual practices of men and women. I do not feel that a woman should be constrained by arbitrary social conventions if she wants to sleep with someone, simply by virtue of the fact that she is a woman. I also don't agree with purposefully engaging in childish mind games in order to retain the interest of a man, because it shows a complete lack of maturity from both sides.

    I will happily continue to be open about sex because I don't see it as shameful in the slightest- if you don't like it, nobody is compelling you to read my posts :)


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    #179
    eth0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    Siuin wrote: »

    If you had actually bothered to read my posts you would have realised by now that I am not advocating sleeping around. I am, however, stating that a double standard exists when it comes to judging the sexual practices of men and women. I do not feel that a woman should be constrained by arbitrary social conventions if she wants to sleep with someone, simply by virtue of the fact that she is a woman. I also don't agree with purposefully engaging in childish mind games in order to retain the interest of a man, because it shows a complete lack of maturity from both sides.

    I will happily continue to be open about sex because I don't see it as shameful in the slightest- if you don't like it, nobody is compelling you to read my posts :)

    I dunno what sort old fashioned values you are trying to have a go at but I think the world has moved on from the battle you still seem to be fighting. Beours are almost encouraged to be slutbags now, just like men were back in the day. In those days beours were given a hard time but now they are "just having fun" and what have you.


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    #180
    caste_in_exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭caste_in_exile


    this is not an excercise; heeeeelp.... you bastards left me out here in the first place


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    #181
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    eth0 wrote: »
    Beours are almost encouraged to be slutbags now
    :rolleyes: Charming


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