Garda Sergeant can't afford food

RustyNut · 18-10-2012 01:20AM

If the good Sargent can't afford his chosen lifestyle on his €75,000 per year government salary then why does he not up skill and get a job in the private sector so he can keep his family in the style they have chosen.

areyawell · 18-10-2012 01:36AM

That seargent needs a good slap in the face. Probably over-leverged like buying a 5 series or sumtin which can easily happen but could easily sort it out with a loan over a longer period.

orl · 18-10-2012 02:01AM

I agree this is a poor example of 'the squeezed middle'. Even if they have children not yet going to school and therefore does not want to work outside the home, she should take in a lodger (allowed 10k a year tax-free) and it is wrong to get her parents to pay for a dishwasher to be fixed when she is not working.

However I have sympathy for them even if foolish financial decisions have been made and she is hamming it up. I also think there is a ring of truth about the story - there are many details that do not assist her case. I also agree with what the guard said that the GRA or AGSI would pick a better story...and a more numerate journalist to write it.

I do think it is worth bearing in mind that the PAYE sector (both private and public) contribute 89.9% of the income tax take. Farmers contribute .9! Other self-employed people contribute 9.2%:
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/publications/2011/annualreviewandoutlookforagriculturefisheriesandfood20102011/nationaldevelopments/incometaxyieldfromfarmers/

Spread · 18-10-2012 02:45AM

This is a makey uppy. The Times is following The Mail ......... in search of bleeding hearts and right wing wallies.

18-10-2012 07:10AM

orl wrote: »

I also think there is a ring of truth about the story - there are many details that do not assist her case.

If there's any truth to it there's plenty of lies as well. This bit makes me question the whole piece:

The woman wrote that even though her eldest child got enough points to go to a prestigious college they couldn’t afford the fees: “Imagine how upsetting that is?”

It's the same cost to go to Trinity as any IT but apparently it was just the "prestigious college" they couldn't afford fees for. Bull****.

Grayson · 18-10-2012 08:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If there's any truth to it there's plenty of lies as well. This bit makes me question the whole piece:

It's the same cost to go to Trinity as any IT but apparently it was just the "prestigious college" they couldn't afford fees for. Bull****.

Unless it was oxford.

toppots · 18-10-2012 09:53AM

I'm sorry, i can't get my head around this article at all, maybe because if my family had an income of 65k we'd be on the pigs back. My husband has been unemployed for over a year, i was on 3 days but have been just made redundant, it looks like that between us we will receive about €370 a week on social welfare, we have 2 kids in secondary school and because our eldest has just turned 18 we have lost that childrens allowance even though she is still in school..because i'm claiming my husband has been told that he's not entitled to his fuel allowance. We had to cancel our health insurance ages back, we have no private pension to look forward to in our old age. We have a mortgage that we can only pay the interest on so i can't ever see us ever owning our house, we have one car that is spluttering along...so maybe i'm picking something up wrong but i can't understand why this family is struggling...

Pappa Charlie · 18-10-2012 10:07AM

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

Jesus, STFU.

I rest my case

pickarooney · 18-10-2012 10:11AM

greecy_joe wrote: »

who buys their first house at forty three ,

Sensible people who save up until they can afford to actually buy a house instead of a lifetime of debt?

Emeraldy Pebbles · 18-10-2012 10:12AM

pickarooney wrote: »

Sensible people who save up until they can afford to actually buy a house instead of a lifetime of debt?

That's not what happened here though.

Emeraldy Pebbles · 18-10-2012 10:12AM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I rest my case

That would be fine if you had a case, rather than a nebulous rant.

jackal · 18-10-2012 10:13AM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I rest my case

I second his motion for you to STFU. Nobody is begrudging anything. These people touted themselves as the "silent poverty class" to every TD they could write to and to the Irish Times. Yet the sums don't add up and people are questioning that. They are spending €1100 per WEEK and pleading the poor mouth.

People are also surprised that a middle of the road ranking guard earns €75k gross per year. Thats a lot of wedge by any definition.

18-10-2012 10:14AM

toppots wrote: »

I'm sorry, i can't get my head around this article at all, maybe because if my family had an income of 65k we'd be on the pigs back. My husband has been unemployed for over a year, i was on 3 days but have been just made redundant, it looks like that between us we will receive about €370 a week on social welfare, we have 2 kids in secondary school and because our eldest has just turned 18 we have lost that childrens allowance even though she is still in school..because i'm claiming my husband has been told that he's not entitled to his fuel allowance. We had to cancel our health insurance ages back, we have no private pension to look forward to in our old age. We have a mortgage that we can only pay the interest on so i can't ever see us ever owning our house, we have one car that is spluttering along...so maybe i'm picking something up wrong but i can't understand why this family is struggling...

They're not. They just think they're struggling because they can't afford all the middle class trappings they're used to. Claiming they can't afford food while they have a dishwasher just illustrates that, as does eating cornflakes for meals. As others have pointed out, you could get decent veg and noodles in Aldi and make a stir fry for the price of a box of cornflakes. I don't believe for one second that they're struggling, given that most people are surviving on far, far less.

Pappa Charlie · 18-10-2012 10:27AM

Boombastic wrote: »

wtf has that got to do with the price of turnips?

It makes perfect sence, the Sgt is getting all the allowences in the post, he's uniform and also plain clothes, hes a scenes of crime examiner on an Island, hes on horseback towing a bike with a garda dog following, hes an instructor in the garda college (now based on the Island), he's also based in the Haque where hes a ministeral driver, hes the JLO, the collator and maybe even a pimp, it makes me laugh how ignorant some people can choose to be on a topic when they want to make a particular arguement. The more I read these forums the more I lose respect for people in this country. I just hope its not a true reflection of society. We are a nation of pissheads and bedgrudgers the biggest whiners are those who never worked a day in their lives and would never achieve or take on a role as responsible as a garda sergeant. Its middle class Ireland who are paying for this country now, he'd be better off on the dole when taxes, pension levies and state entitlments he would gain are taken into account.

barbiegirl · 18-10-2012 10:28AM

I don't begrudge this couple anything. My husband and I earn more than this guy between us so we have no need for jealousy, thank you very much. We have our own troubles and heartbreak, but thankfully at the moment money isn't one.

What I am questioning is their poor mouth, poor me attitude. The sums don't add up unless there is an investment property or something similar. This whole story is a farce and definitely a play for sympathy before the budget. If there are other factors perhaps they shpuld have made that clear. There is no reason why someone earning €65k cannot feed their family and absolutely no reason to consider a dishwasher as a necessity.

I have friends and family who are struggling, really struggling, on the dole with 2 kids, not able to pay the mortgage etc. A 28 year old brother working a minimum pay job despite being a gifted and qualified tradesman. Life at the moment is hard. We are all paying more than we did 3 years ago, going out less, eating cheaper foods, buying fewer clothes etc. It's called a recession. The country is broke. You look at what you take in, you prioritise your bills in order of mortgage, food, utilities, everything else, end of story. If your outgoing are greater than what you take in you limit your outgoings again. That's life.

Begrudge them nope, pity them nope, think they need to be shaken and taught what real hardship is, yep.

K-9 · 18-10-2012 11:00AM

Seriously there is no need for the STFU crap or just labeling those who disagree begrudgers, doesn't help to have a half decent discussion so cut it out from now on.

Tombo2001 · 18-10-2012 11:02AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If one parent is not working outside the home why is childcare required?

And yes, I am a parent.

Because the question I was answering is, whats to stop the missus going back to work.

(In which case both would be working).

2ndcoming · 18-10-2012 11:07AM

Regardless of anyone's opinion of the story, constant posts of "how can they not live on 65k a year" are simply ignoring the breakdowns done earlier in the thread.

The net income is somewhere between 41k and 45k, so we can say €43,000 for arguments sake. That's prior to the 16,800 mortgage.

Their living budget by that rationale, prior to any bills or other debts we don't have evidence of, is €26,200 or €503 a week. The question is not how can they not live on 65k a year, it's how can they not live on €503 a week.

In my opinion it's other things like pre-existing credit union loans that has them unable to budget at €503 but ignoring the figures and going on like "65 grand a year, Joe!!" makes your post utterly pointless to be honest.

Tombo2001 · 18-10-2012 11:14AM

Reading between the lines here, what has happened is that the couple bought the house on two salaries. And then when kids came along, the wife stopped working and became a stay-at-home mom.

Now I'm guessing, but I wouldnt be surprised if thats what happened.

And that is an issue that a huge amount of people face.

That they bought the house as a couple 8 years ago, when they could both work and both had lots of disposable income.

One of the biggest luxuries for a young family stays at home with the kids. For the children and for the parent this is IMHO far superior. (And I say this as part of a couple where both are working, and kids are with the minder). I would love or one of us to stay at home, but we cant afford it.

So to put it this way, I have no doubt that they are struggling and things are tight. But giving up work and staying home with the kids, is a far greater luxury than going to a restaurant once a month, and its something most families cant afford.

barbiegirl · 18-10-2012 11:18AM

I would disagree, what we are saying is that if things are so desperate then you sit down with your creditors and come to agreements with them that allow you to feed your family. You cut back. A food budget for a family eating very well would be €200 so that leave over €300 a week to pay bills.
Don't say that creditors will not engage, because I know they will. Infact if you engage a debt management agency they legally have to engage and agreements worked out.
They cannot live on over €500 a week after the mortgage and taking into account the help available to them is ridiculous.

strandroad · 18-10-2012 11:18AM

barbiegirl wrote: »

Begrudge them nope, pity them nope, think they need to be shaken and taught what real hardship is, yep.

Yes, I can't wrap my head around the expectations the woman has.

Things they have:
own large house in good location
access to good schools
a kid going to college, others presumably to follow
secure job
solid pension contribution
health insurance
a car
mod cons such as the legendary dishwasher
the luxury of a stay at home mother, even though the children seem to be of school age, seeing how they had their family seven years ago

Things she feels they should have and feels deprived of:
decent discretionary income
the ability to send children to fee paying third level institutions of choice
piano lessons
holidays
savings

All this for five people (three adults), with only one person working, on €51k basic and €20k+ allowances.
Does not compute.

This is garda sergeant we're talking about, it's a tough job so he deserves the pay, but it's hardly the kind of job that would on its own give a family of five the lifestyle she expects. Go to work woman, get your retired parents to mind the kids after school instead of draining their purse for your dishwasher! Find a minimum wage job, your €1.5k a month will sort you out. But the likes of piano lessons or dishwasher before food being mentioned make me think that in her mind she is glued to a certain lifestyle and a minimum wage job would not suit.

K-9 · 18-10-2012 11:22AM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Reading between the lines here, what has happened is that the couple bought the house on two salaries. And then when kids came along, the wife stopped working and became a stay-at-home mom.

Now I'm guessing, but I wouldnt be surprised if thats what happened.

And that is an issue that a huge amount of people face.

That they bought the house as a couple 8 years ago, when they could both work and both had lots of disposable income.

Given the lending affordability criteria of banks 7 or 8 years ago I don't think that is a valid assumption. Banks ditched prudent criteria like 2 and a half times income or 20% of net income a few years before that, a Sergeant with good overtime would have been a safe bet for a bank. Doesn't mean buying the house was wise but the banks did throw money at people, well probably a 35 year noose around their neck.

jackal · 18-10-2012 11:32AM

2ndcoming wrote: »

Regardless of anyone's opinion of the story, constant posts of "how can they not live on 65k a year" are simply ignoring the breakdowns done earlier in the thread.

The net income is somewhere between 41k and 45k, so we can say €43,000 for arguments sake. That's prior to the 16,800 mortgage.

Their living budget by that rationale, prior to any bills or other debts we don't have evidence of, is €26,200 or €503 a week. The question is not how can they not live on 65k a year, it's how can they not live on €503 a week.

In my opinion it's other things like pre-existing credit union loans that has them unable to budget at €503 but ignoring the figures and going on like "65 grand a year, Joe!!" makes your post utterly pointless to be honest.

No, the breakdowns done earlier in the thread are attempting to paint a scenario one way or the other. The article did not give enough detail for you or anyone else to definitively state what their take home pay is. For instance the €500 a month "working late" allowance which is not in the weekly payslip.

The fact is they are in the top 10% of gross PAYE earners in the country, and if they have more outgoings than income, that is their own fault. Everybody on a half decent salary has either a rent or mortgage to pay, and other expenses and deductions... nobody is saying they get €65k a year into the hand. Believe it or not, everyone else is taxed, levied and deducted too. Without seeing the raw data, the payslips, the credit union arrangements, we simply do not know what the hell they are spending their money on, but when MABS says that based on the information supplied, they cannot get their weekly outgoings below €1100, yet the mortgage is only €350 per week, its hard to take this seriously as presented. They are spending "Quinn" levels of money every week.

2ndcoming · 18-10-2012 11:46AM

jackal wrote: »

No, the breakdowns done earlier in the thread are attempting to paint a scenario one way or the other. The article did not give enough detail for you or anyone else to definitively state what their take home pay is. For instance the €500 a month "working late" allowance which is not in the weekly payslip.

The fact is they are in the top 10% of gross PAYE earners in the country, and if they have more outgoings than income, that is their own fault. Everybody on a half decent salary has either a rent or mortgage to pay, and other expenses and deductions... nobody is saying they get €65k a year into the hand. Believe it or not, everyone else is taxed, levied and deducted too. Without seeing the raw data, the payslips, the credit union arrangements, we simply do not know what the hell they are spending their money on, but when MABS says that based on the information supplied, they cannot get their weekly outgoings below €1100, yet the mortgage is only €350 per week, its hard to take this seriously as presented. They are spending "Quinn" levels of money every week.

I agree with a lot of that, although I did one of the breakdowns and I wasn't trying to swing it either way. Of course allowances are included in gross pay, and to give you a max figure of €75,000 gross on class B PRSI with married tax credits and home carer's credit which they probably have the weekly net figure comes to €572. If he's class A PRSI it would be slightly less, say €550, and of course that's not accounting for any variables like pre-existing loans or other debts we can't account for.

I disagree that no one is saying he's getting 65k into his hand, I would say 9/10 posts making reference to the figure are implying exactly that.

golden lane · 18-10-2012 11:54AM

surely the point is to live on your income.....

living above that income is the core problem, that even affects the country..

great lesson for the future.......

and of course.......be grateful for what you have....

HellFireClub · 18-10-2012 11:59AM

2ndcoming wrote: »

I agree with a lot of that, although I did one of the breakdowns and I wasn't trying to swing it either way. Of course allowances are included in gross pay, and to give you a max figure of €75,000 gross on class B PRSI with married tax credits and home carer's credit which they probably have the weekly net figure comes to €572. If he's class A PRSI it would be slightly less, say €550, and of course that's not accounting for any variables like pre-existing loans or other debts we can't account for.

I disagree that no one is saying he's getting 65k into his hand, I would say 9/10 posts making reference to the figure are implying exactly that.

Nobody is saying he is taking home 65K gross ffs. 65K gross is still an EXCELLENT salary at the moment, and it's also a SECURE salary. Clearly we all accept that the man must pay tax on his income, but this is the very problem with public sector workers at the moment, especially the kind under discussion here, who are clearly highly paid, they are turning their noses up at what are excellent salaries, excellent working conditions and jobs that couldn't be more secure!

I personally do not know a single person who is getting paid that kind of money in the private sector nor anything remotely close to it.

I do know a few self employed people though who are not even drawing regular salaries from their small businesses and putting in 60-70 hour weeks, as they try to work out whether to just call it a day and accept that they have been bet by a government that is on a mission to put them out of business, by the continuing failed policies that we are all seeing every day, or whether they should try to stay in their small businesses, as there is no dole for them or any such basic support, should they fail.

The idea that a state employee on 65K a year, then you have generous allowances that are not taxable, and you have Child Benefit on top of all of it, the idea that someone in that kind of a situation can claim to be unable to put food on the table, as a private sector person paying myself a fraction of that income and working 16 hour days to stay in business, it's highly offensive to any private sector person and it's actually disgusting to listen to.

Time to get with the script, snap the fúck out of it and sort out your spending problems and most importantly of all, BE EXTREMELY GRATEFUL FOR WHAT YOU HAVE AT THE MOMENT...

2ndcoming · 18-10-2012 12:40PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

Nobody is saying he is taking home 65K gross ffs. 65K gross is still an EXCELLENT salary at the moment, and it's also a SECURE salary. Clearly we all accept that the man must pay tax on his income, but this is the very problem with public sector workers at the moment, especially the kind under discussion here, who are clearly highly paid, they are turning their noses up at what are excellent salaries, excellent working conditions and jobs that couldn't be more secure!

I personally do not know a single person who is getting paid that kind of money in the private sector nor anything remotely close to it.

I do know a few self employed people though who are not even drawing regular salaries from their small businesses and putting in 60-70 hour weeks, as they try to work out whether to just call it a day and accept that they have been bet by a government that is on a mission to put them out of business, by the continuing failed policies that we are all seeing every day, or whether they should try to stay in their small businesses, as there is no dole for them or any such basic support, should they fail.

The idea that a state employee on 65K a year, then you have generous allowances that are not taxable, and you have Child Benefit on top of all of it, the idea that someone in that kind of a situation can claim to be unable to put food on the table, as a private sector person paying myself a fraction of that income and working 16 hour days to stay in business, it's highly offensive to any private sector person and it's actually disgusting to listen to.

Time to get with the script, snap the fúck out of it and sort out your spending problems and most importantly of all, BE EXTREMELY GRATEFUL FOR WHAT YOU HAVE AT THE MOMENT...

Any middle manager in a nationwide business would be on similar money, and tbh the work they do doesn't involve the unsociable hours or the danger that the work of a Garda sergeant does. I also doubt they would ever have to call to a house in the early hours to tell a parent their son just died in a car accident. The work of the Gardai and all frontline services is vital and they deserve to be fairly paid for it.

The small business man who calls for cuts to anyone would strike me as being chronically shortsighted, as the number one critical aspect to them surviving is they need people to have disposable income to spend in their businesses. The Small Firms Association's stance on this absolutely baffles me, as it could only possibly suit their members whose entire business is export based.

Surely their anger would be better aimed at the previous and present governments, who provided socialism for big business and let the axe of pure capitalism fall on them.

Jaysoose · 18-10-2012 12:41PM

Fuinseog wrote: »

the term 'mum' used to be used only by Protestant and people in South Dublin. it seems to have spread. the term 'ma' is not just used by scobes.

Bollox.

hyperborean · 18-10-2012 12:43PM

2ndcoming wrote: »

Any middle manager in a nationwide business would be on similar money, and tbh the work they do doesn't involve the unsociable hours or the danger that the work of a Garda sergeant does. I also doubt they would ever have to call to a house in the early hours to tell a parent their son just died in a car accident. The work of the Gardai and all frontline services is vital and they deserve to be fairly paid for it.

The small business man who calls for cuts to anyone would strike me as being chronically shortsighted, as the number one critical aspect to them surviving is they need people to have disposable income to spend in their businesses. The Small Firms Association's stance on this absolutely baffles me, as it could only possibly suit their members whose entire business is export based.

Surely their anger would be better aimed at the previous and present governments, who provided socialism for big business and let the axe of pure capitalism fall on them.

Rubbish and down right wrong.

18-10-2012 12:52PM

df1985 wrote: »

Its a pre budget spin story....cue all the other guards, teachers, nurses, soldiers etc reading that and getting all flustered about more cuts.

While they read it on their iphone.

I hate boll*cks like this, why can people not get annoyed about cuts? Just because someone isn't struggling does not mean they are happy to be getting less money at the end of the month.

Garda Sergeant can't afford food

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