Garda Sergeant can't afford food

2ndcoming

Boombastic wrote: »

He brings home 715/week. 715 * 52 = 37180 out of a salary of 75,000

75,000-37180 = 37820 He pays 37,820 or 50.42%tax on all of his wages(this does not include pension, insurance etc as these are accounted for separately)
could someone please explain to me how he pays so much tax (I'm not a financial adviser as previously mentioned)

As you have said and is evident in your sum above, you have absolutely no idea about personal finance, yet you're easily the most opinionated and regular poster on this thread. Opinion without knowledge is worthless at best and dangerous at worst.

jmayo

fits wrote: »

I have no reason to disbelieve this story.

If I had a family of four or five I might, yes!

Are you saying that you would be spending anything between €442 (3100/7) and €515 (3100/6) on clothes and shoes for each member ?
That is a hefty amount to be spending and if you decide to spend money on designer brands rather than fooking food then you would be a moron.

fits wrote: »

What would it take for people to sympathise?

The ones I have smypathy for are the ones who are sick or have cronically/terminally sick members in their family, the ones who are left on waiting lists, the ones who are forgotten and left alone to care for the sick and elderly in their homes whilst they are actually saving the state the majority of the cost of the care, or the ones who through bad luck are left up the creek even though they were always PRUDIENT and didn't climb on board the crazy cheap credit train to supposed riches.

fits wrote: »

If he werent a garda would it help?

The fact that he is a reasonably well paid public servant, who wants to keep a certain salary to fund his families lifestyle does mean that the taxpayers basically are being asked to cough up.

fits wrote: »

This middle income bracket is supposed to be the one propping up the economy but they are more and more pressed.

That is true, but most of those middle income people also cut their cloth to suit their measure and don't go whinging that they can't afford prestigious colleges, all the while looking for the other taxpayers to basically fund their lifestyle. :mad:

fits wrote: »

I have left Ireland now and all I can see when I look back are a load of people squabbling on a sinking ship.

So if you have left and are not paying tax here, then kindly don't be telling the rest of us how we should all pay more tax so that mr garda and his wife can continue enjoying a lifestyle they can no longer afford.

Qualitymark

pickarooney wrote: »

I could get fifty kilos of tomatoes for that and make enough pasta sauce to feed a family for a year. Not that that would be a sane or healthy thing to do, but...

Really? Where? (And do you put meat in your past sauce? I use a kilo of Lidl lean mince to make a load of it and freeze it, with tinned tomatoes, purée, mushrooms, carrots, celery, onions, reekings of garlic, thyme, a slosh of €3-a-bottle Aldi wine.)

Boombastic

2ndcoming wrote: »

As you have said and is evident in your sum above, you have absolutely no idea about personal finance, yet you're easily the most opinionated and regular poster on this thread. Opinion without knowledge is worthless at best and dangerous at worst.

Neither do Mabs by the looks of this.

Mr. Incognito

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1017/1224325338822.html?via=mr

Now, the family’s total weekly income, including child benefit, is €807 net, according to Mabs. The following is its projected weekly expenditure, according to a schedule prepared by the same agency :

Mortgage (interest only): €280.00
Mortgage Protection Insurance €15,00
Buildings/Contents Insurance €7.00
Food/Housekeeping €200,00
Electricity Usage €25.00
Heat/Fuel Usage €25.00



TV licence €4.00
Waste Charges €5.00
Telephone/Other utilities €43.00
Transports costs €127.50
Educational costs (college registration fees, children’s uniforms) €75.00
Clothing/Footwear €60.00
Medical costs (insurance) €73.23
Repairs & Maintenance €20.00
Other Expenditure €84.00
Credit Union €50.00

Total €1,093.73

Not included are weekly pension-related contributions of around €80.

Seriously

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!

€200 a week on Food??? Hardly eating cornflakes there.

Potential-Monke

Boombastic wrote: »

Any links to this makey-upy story? I've looked but can't find any. I heard they drop dead as soon as they retire, so that makes their pension (including lump sum) to be about €73,000:eek:

I understand your sarcasm, and i've given a better look today in a less inebriated state. All i've found on the internet is a reference to the same study, but nothing from the CSO website. So, in the interests of fairness, i have emailed the CSO and looked for the report. Once i receive it, i shall post the details/link and/or attach the file, or i will refute my claim.

Qualitymark

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1017/1224325338822.html?via=mr



Seriously

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!

€200 a week on Food??? Hardly eating cornflakes there.

Mind you, this illustrates a common problem in Ireland - people really don't understand how to cook cheap, nourishing, delicious food from fresh ingredients. A TV show, a radio show and nationwide courses on this would make a big difference to Irish health and finance.

bamboozle

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1017/1224325338822.html?via=mr



Seriously

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!

€200 a week on Food??? Hardly eating cornflakes there.

they obviously shop in Fallon & Byrnes, Donnybrook Fair & superquinn.

if they're that stuck why doesnt the mother mind kids in her home...i vaguely recall stay at home mothers can do that without affecting tax credits etc.

Furthermore, MABS claiming weekly income including child benefit is 802. which would suggest 3200 PM including child benefit. Whereas any tax calculator online would suggest 75k gross for someone married with a single income is just over 4k PM add in 420 child benefit and that's 1105PW...once again big gaps in the article.

Qualitymark

bamboozle wrote: »

they obviously shop in Fallon & Byrnes, Donnybrook Fair & superquinn.

if they're that stuck why doesnt the mother mind kids in her home...i vaguely recall stay at home mothers can do that without affecting tax credits etc.

I vaguely recall that most families don't have extra money to pay for minders.

Aidric

Qualitymark wrote: »

Really? Where? (And do you put meat in your past sauce? I use a kilo of Lidl lean mince to make a load of it and freeze it, with tinned tomatoes, purée, mushrooms, carrots, celery, onions, reekings of garlic, thyme, a slosh of €3-a-bottle Aldi wine.)

You could do without the extravagance.

Heroditas

bamboozle wrote: »

...once again big gaps in the article.

Of course.
The key line is this:

Verification of the garda’s weekly income was available in the form of his payslip and we had permission to publish it in its original form, with name and identifying details redacted. A view was taken by senior editors, however, that certain other details might have identified the payee so this too was withheld.

i.e. there was never any letter but we're going to hide behind Data Protection laws to pretend they're actually concealing this person whereas this person doesn't actually exist.

bamboozle

Qualitymark wrote: »

I vaguely recall that most families don't have extra money to pay for minders.

do kids stay at home unattended while their parents are out working?

fits

jmayo wrote: »

Are you saying that you would be spending anything between €442 (3100/7) and €515 (3100/6) on clothes and shoes for each member ?
That is a hefty amount to be spending and if you decide to spend money on designer brands rather than fooking food then you would be a moron.

I have absolutely no idea what I would be spending as I have no family but I do know that uniforms, kids growing out of clothes, weddings, communions, sports gear all add up very quickly.

The ones I have smypathy for are the ones who are sick or have cronically/terminally sick members in their family, the ones who are left on waiting lists, the ones who are forgotten and left alone to care for the sick and elderly in their homes whilst they are actually saving the state the majority of the cost of the care, or the ones who through bad luck are left up the creek even though they were always PRUDIENT and didn't climb on board the crazy cheap credit train to supposed riches.

supposed riches??? The bought a house!

So if you have left and are not paying tax here, then kindly don't be telling the rest of us how we should all pay more tax so that mr garda and his wife can continue enjoying a lifestyle they can no longer afford.

I didn't tell anyone anything of the sort. Would my opinion be more valid to you if id stayed behind and lived on the dole?

You know what I really love Ireland and miss it but I cannot stand the horrible attitude on this thread. I have been in financial trouble before. I even visited MABS so I know how it works. The absolute psychological strain of it is awful. People are killing themselves over this stuff.

No this story is not the worst ever but all anyone can seem to do is piss on it. Am truly disgusted.

Qualitymark

Aidric wrote: »

You could do without the extravagance.

Ah yes, we're the undeserving poor.

bamboozle wrote: »

do kids stay at home unattended while their parents are out working?

Grandparents and unemployed relatives are deployed increasingly.

fits wrote: »

You know what I really love Ireland and miss it but I cannot stand the horrible attitude on this thread. I have been in financial trouble before. I even visited MABS so I know how it works. The absolute psychological strain of it is awful. People are killing themselves over this stuff.

I think this begrudging attitude is really what has Ireland in the mess it's in. Countries like Iceland and Denmark, where the governments immediately acted to support those in trouble - without begrudgery from their neighbours - got back into financial order very fast. In Ireland we're tearing each other to pieces, and tearing our country to pieces in the process.

fits

Madam_X wrote: »

Much as I despise the anti public sector brigade and much as I understand plenty of house-buyers were not being foolish during the "boom", it's difficult to take this story seriously. Trying to put myself in their shoes and all I can think is: with an income like that, there is bound to be scope for making cuts. Prestigious colleges are not essential.
I don't disbelieve the story but I also think many of their grievances would be solved via strict budgeting. It sucks but you gotta do it when you gotta do it.

Were they mad going to the media with a story like this? A garda like? :eek:
If they thought they'd get sympathy, their sense of delusion must know no bounds - maybe they need a swift kick back to reality re their spending habits also.

Most colleges now require something like 2000 in registration fees which is fairly hefty. im not sure what its like in the ITs.

Also I'm guessing that the journalist sought them out rather than the reverse.

jmayo

fits wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea what I would be spending as I have no family but I do know that uniforms, kids growing out of clothes, weddings, communions, sports gear all add up very quickly.

Well as someone with kids, young kids who are growing at a rate of knots, I wouldn't be spending over 400 euro a year on them or myself for that matter.

fits wrote: »

supposed riches??? The bought a house!

Yeah, but what type of house ?
It was stated they bought a house in a nice neighbourhood with good schools.
Why should it be possible for someone on a single salary between 60k to 75k to be able to buy a house in certain neighbourhoods ?
I knew that I couldn't afford to buy in certain areas and I didn't hock myself up to the eyebasll to do us.
I think this family aspires to a lifestyle that there income simply cannot afford.

Also how do we know they didn't buy anything else ?
They have two cars, what type are they ?

Qualitymark wrote: »

Ah yes, we're the undeserving poor.

I think this begrudging attitude is really what has Ireland in the mess it's in.

No what has Ireland in the mess is the fooking sense of ENTITLEMENT that pervaids large chunks of our society.
This is particularly noticable amongst employees of the state who thought during the Celtic Tiger and the bubble that they should also be getting a big slice of the pie, but now that there is no money that they should not share the pain.

Countries like Iceland and Denmark, where the governments immediately acted to support those in trouble - without begrudgery from their neighbours - got back into financial order very fast. In Ireland we're tearing each other to pieces, and tearing our country to pieces in the process.

Yeah lets compare the relative salaries between Iceland/Denmark and ourselves shall we ?
I wonder how much a police sergant is on in those countries.

BTW you get begrudery when you start asking one person to make sacrifices so others don't have to.

jam_mac_jam

Qualitymark wrote: »

Ah yes, we're the undeserving poor.




Grandparents and unemployed relatives are deployed increasingly.




I think this begrudging attitude is really what has Ireland in the mess it's in. Countries like Iceland and Denmark, where the governments immediately acted to support those in trouble - without begrudgery from their neighbours - got back into financial order very fast. In Ireland we're tearing each other to pieces, and tearing our country to pieces in the process.

Iceland let the banks fail and didnt pay back their debts, that's the difference. They looked after people by allowing them to get out of debts they could never pay back. Nothing to do with begrudery whatever that is.

fits

If you want to know what begrudgery is, this is a pretty good explanation.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-%e2%80%98we-irish-are-defined-by-a-lack-of-empathy%e2%80%99-199994-Aug2011/

Lemming

38 pages and most of it still ignores the elephant in the figures provided. Accounting for 52 weeks, and going by the provided figures, the family are spending over €10,000 a year on food. And still can't feed themselves apparently.

Sorry, but that statistic alone is pretty hard to accept as being credible. And it's the one statistic that is at the crux of the article; "corn flake days".

Proxy

Lemming wrote: »

38 pages and most of it still ignores the elephant in the figures provided. Accounting for 52 weeks, and going by the provided figures, the family are spending over €10,000 a year on food. And still can't feed themselves apparently.

Sorry, but that statistic alone is pretty hard to accept as being credible. And it's the one statistic that is at the crux of the article; "corn flake days".

Exactly. Just taking the two obvious gapes in the story being the food bill and the erroneous TV licence figure, throws all other numbers into disrepute.

This story succeeded in creating a stir at least.

Qualitymark

From the piece linked above, and so true, as illustrated by posters here:

If our neighbour is going through a black time, we sift through their rubbish until we can find a reason, however flimsy, to place the blame on them. It’s almost a defence mechanism, as if throwing light on the misfortune of others may cause that misfortune to seep into our own lives, if we don’t hurry to reason why it couldn’t ever possibly.

We have to change, if we want our country to change.

Edit: incidentally, wouldn't it be fun if that article was actually the base research for a piece on whether begrudgery exists in Ireland?

mikom

Made up story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXVjWTxvYVQ

Proxy

Qualitymark wrote: »

From the piece linked above, and so true, as illustrated by posters here:



We have to change, if we want our country to change.

Edit: incidentally, wouldn't it be fun if that article was actually the base research for a piece on whether begrudgery exists in Ireland?

Not sure what you mean, I can feed and clothe myself just fine. That post just tries to project blame away from the self onto others. Who got them into the situation but themselves? And, given the evidence, it's not "misfortune", it's extremely poor budget management. More of the same from the way the country used to be.

Boombastic

€25/week budgeted for heating, yet they sit in an unheated house??


Having to eat cornflakes some days, even though they budget €200/week for food and €60/week for new clothes (this excludes uniforms as they are separately accounted for)

The most worrying thing about this case is that mabs can't see a way of cutting costs and mabs would be happy to refer them to SVdP

kylith

Proxy wrote: »

Exactly. Just taking the two obvious gapes in the story being the food bill and the erroneous TV licence figure, throws all other numbers into disrepute.

This story succeeded in creating a stir at least.

Agreed, how can someone spending ~€200 a week on food not afford to eat? I wonder where she's shopping, because it certainly isn't Lidl or Aldi; sounds more like M&S and an expensive butchers.

Spread

Charlie Weston thinks it's makey uppy:




http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/charlie-weston/charlie-weston-a-garda-earning-75000-and-living-on-cornflakes-it-doesnt-add-up-3263749.html

Chucky the tree

Qualitymark wrote: »

From the piece linked above, and so true, as illustrated by posters here:


We have to change, if we want our country to change.

Edit: incidentally, wouldn't it be fun if that article was actually the base research for a piece on whether begrudgery exists in Ireland?

Even funnier if it was about people who defend the indefensible no matter how stupid the circumstances. "oh was my dishes by hand? You must be joking, what would the neighbours think?" "Cancel my sky sports? Oh gosh, can't live with out that. The son loves his premiership". Gotta love those first world problems.

Elmer Blooker

Dean09 wrote: »

No sympathy from me. If they can't survive on €65k a year then that's their own fault.

where did you get the €65k from? I estimate that this family (of 5 I would say as they they needed a bigger house) are left with around €21k after they are pickpocketed by the government.
Then there's the education system in this country which is nothing more than extortion ( books etc)

Chucky the tree

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

where did you get the €65k from? I estimate that this family (of 5 I would say as they they needed a bigger house) are left with around €21k after they are pickpocketed by the government.
Then there's the education system in this country which is nothing more than extortion ( books etc)

Where did you pluck that figure from?

SIX PACK

Dan133269 wrote: »

All the tales from people suffering from the recession have evoked different reactions from me, but this story really tugged at my heart strings. A working Garda sergeant is unable to feed his family.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1017/1224325341332.html

According to his wife:



Where's a secret millionaire when you need them? Obviously I'm being sarcastic. This kind of whingeing really sickens me. There are people who are genuinely struggling, and this family making at least 65k a year gross (no mention on whether she's working or not) are moaning that they can't put food on the table. How in the name of god are they managing their finances?

He cant afford to take his children to private school & has to drive a car thats more than 4 years old Poor old sod :mad:. try live on €9000 per yr social welfare . .

Elmer Blooker

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Where did you pluck that figure from?

20% tax on 41k and the higher rate on the rest.
after tax and mortgage repayments they wouldn't have much more than that to live on.
(they need a roof over their heads unless they live in a caravan)

Duggys Housemate

SIX PACK wrote: »

He cant afford to take his children to private school & has to drive a car thats more than 4 years old Poor old sod :mad:. try live on €9000 per yr social welfare . .

where he wouldn't need a car, or pay for rent/mortgage etc.

do people really believe we should all be earning social welfare rates?

Duggys Housemate

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

20% tax on 41k and the higher rate on the rest.
after tax and mortgage repayments they wouldn't have much more than that to live on.
(they need a roof over their heads unless they live in a caravan)

After mortgage, yes. But they can earn 24K without tax, like everybody else.

kylith

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

where he wouldn't need a car, or pay for rent/mortgage etc.

do people really believe we should all be earning social welfare rates?

I believe the point was 'if you think you're having a hard time living on €65k, try living on €9K'. Not that €9k should be the average wage.

Bannasidhe

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

where he wouldn't need a car, or pay for rent/mortgage etc.

do people really believe we should all be earning social welfare rates?

Do people really believe those on SW get free housing?

They do not.

From the 188 euro per week those in receipt of rent allowance have to pay a minimum of 30 euro per week towards their rent - or around 30% of their income. Same for those in LA housing.
SW recipients who have mortgages may be able to get help with the interest only portion - but this is of limited duration and by no means guaranteed.

Why would someone on SW not need a car? Do people on the dole not have to drop their kids to school? In large parts of this country there is little or no public transport but according to some being on SW means one can walk or cycle everywhere - even if it is lashing rain and one is going to for a job interview...

phasers

look, all arguments aside, one simple fact that nobody can dispute is that the family spend 200 quid a week on food. Its written in one of the reports (along with an incorrect TV licence figure - world class journalism there).


It is not only doable to feed a family on 200 quid a week, it's easy. So it's obvious for anybody with a brain to realise that this is the parents' fault for being stupid with money.


'cornflake days' me hole.

Duggys Housemate

kylith wrote: »

I believe the point was 'if you think you're having a hard time living on €65k, try living on €9K'. Not that €9k should be the average wage.

Yeah but that excludes rent, mortgage, and other costs paid for by the government . A per capita untaxed income of 9K is not that smaller than the per-capita income of this family. Possibly more. If they had that per person in that household, they would be on 36K post tax and mortgage, but prior to other expenses.

kylith

phasers wrote: »

look, all arguments aside, one simple fact that nobody can dispute is that the family spend 200 quid a week on food. Its written in one of the reports (along with an incorrect TV licence figure - world class journalism there).


It is not only doable to feed a family on 200 quid a week, it's easy. So it's obvious for anybody with a brain to realise that this is the parents' fault for being stupid with money.


'cornflake days' me hole.

I've been wondering about the TV licence amount. Is it possible that it's so high because they have more than one telly?

Boombastic

kylith wrote: »

I've been wondering about the TV licence amount. Is it possible that it's so high because they have more than one telly?

No:pac::pac:

Only one licence is required for each address regardless of the number of televisions present.

Unless it's different for the Gardai:D

unimpressed

I feel for a family in trouble especially if one of them is servicing the people.
But hell woman 65k a year leaves you with a min of 47k a year for controlable expensis. Try doing your washing at night use the line instead of the dryer by mince instead of fillet steak. mobile phones sell for 20 euro now ?? you can have all you need on 32 k a year never mind 47. Get a life

kylith

Boombastic wrote: »

No:pac::pac:

Only one licence is required for each address regardless of the number of televisions present.

Unless it's different for the Gardai:D

Ah right, then it's very strange. I thought you had to have one per telly; but maybe that's businesses or something.

Paddysboys

They have it alright and lots of gifts

fits

kylith wrote: »

Ah right, then it's very strange. I thought you had to have one per telly; but maybe that's businesses or something.

not that forty euro makes much of a difference in overall scheme of things but wonder if telly depreciation is included in with license fee.

Also ^^^^47 k ??? Where did you get that from? I think people really don't understand how gross pay relates to take home pay and then disposable income.

Bannasidhe

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Yeah but that excludes rent, mortgage, and other costs paid for by the government . A per capita untaxed income of 9K is not that smaller than the per-capita income of this family. Possibly more. If they had that per person in that household, they would be on 36K post tax and mortgage, but prior to other expenses.

Once again - NO IT DOESN'T.
People on SW pay a minimum of 30% of their income towards their housing costs.

fits

fits wrote: »

Most colleges now require something like 2000 in registration fees which is fairly hefty. im not sure what its like in the ITs.

Also I'm guessing that the journalist sought them out rather than the reverse.

It's 2k or 2250 a year for college whether it's an IT or Trinity. Unless she suddenly realised she didn't have 10-15k per year to send the kid to Oxford I don't understand how she finds it so upsetting.

TheLastMohican

If his overtime etc has been cut, he could get paid for standing at Copper's door

Shenshen

fits wrote: »

You know what I really love Ireland and miss it but I cannot stand the horrible attitude on this thread. I have been in financial trouble before. I even visited MABS so I know how it works. The absolute psychological strain of it is awful. People are killing themselves over this stuff.

No this story is not the worst ever but all anyone can seem to do is piss on it. Am truly disgusted.

You know what? There are a lot of people out there actually struggling. People who have lost their jobs, families with both parents out of work, etc.
And this letter asks for sympathy for someone who has a secure job and earns more than twice what I make. Now, I realise that without children, I'm not exactly in the same place, but I do have my mortgage to pay and l find it difficult to feel honest sympathy for someone making that much money claiming to be struggling, when I myself consider myself lucky and not badly off at all.

pwurple

I may have missed it in the thread, but how many kids are in this family?
If it's four people, with at least three of them being adults or at least teenager size... 200 euro is for food/household, which is everything in the grovery basket, right? So loo roll, toothpaste etc.

Between 6 people that is 33 euro each. 33 euro for a week of food per person I would have considered to be pretty tight. Especially for the amount teenage boys eat.

€4.72 per day for a teenage boy's food and loo roll.... It's possible of course, but it's not loaded by any stretch.

fits

Buttonftw wrote: »

It's 2k or 2250 a year for college whether it's an IT or Trinity. Unless she suddenly realised she didn't have 10-15k per year to send the kid to Oxford I don't understand how she finds it so upsetting.

That's still a lot to come up with if you're stretched already. But thanks for clarification.

bamboozle

pwurple wrote: »

I may have missed it in the thread, but how many kids are in this family?
If it's four people, with at least three of them being adults or at least teenager size... 200 euro is for food/household, which is everything in the grovery basket, right? So loo roll, toothpaste etc.

Between 6 people that is 33 euro each. 33 euro for a week of food per person I would have considered to be pretty tight. Especially for the amount teenage boys eat.

€4.72 per day for a teenage boy's food and loo roll.... It's possible of course, but it's not loaded by any stretch.

well thankfully they get 140 children's allowance per child....
so 10k PA a year on food is reasonable for a family of 6?