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orange provocation

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    #1022
    jugger0
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭jugger0


    getz wrote: »
    i dont think the south treated its protestants that well itself,from a free state protestant population of 27% in 1920, its down to only 5% today ,and thats not by accident,yet the catholic population in the north has increased,dont know why that is ,because if i was a catholic living in the north ,i would pay my two euro bus fare,and head for the promised land.

    The south didn't discriminate against protestants, we had a protestant president ! while meanwhile in the north Catholics couldn't get jobs or homes and were routinely killed for being a different religion. Obviously the protestants who left were unionists and couldn't stand being under the rule of "free state bastards" or whatever else those lads like to call us.


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    #1023
    AEDIC
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭AEDIC


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Was your husband taking responsibility for the people in England who put out signs saying 'No Dogs, No Irish'?
    Because if he wasn't then a drunk mouthing off in a bar in Clare is hardly the responsibility of SF or the IRA nor is he representative of sober and committed republican citizens.
    The idiocy and feigned victimhood of some of our English visitors is already legendary and laughable, your story is just another contribution to that long list!

    And that is your opinion, because you prefer to view it that way, however the people that are threatened with death or violence and their families have a different opinion....however you seem to not be able to let them have that opinion without trying to ridicule it. Odd really.


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    #1024
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    AEDIC wrote: »
    And that is your opinion, because you prefer to view it that way, however the people that are threatened with death or violence and their families have a different opinion....however you seem to not be able to let them have that opinion without trying to ridicule it. Odd really.

    Because it's straight out of the Joe Duffy School of hysterical indignation.....how often do you take somebody you recognise as 'propping up a bar, drunk' seriously?
    I can 'recognise' a partitionist bias hiding behind a hissy fit from a mile off.


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    #1025
    AEDIC
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭AEDIC


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Because it's straight out of the Joe Duffy School of hysterical indignation.....how often do you take somebody you recognise as 'propping up a bar, drunk' seriously?
    I can 'recognise' a partitionist bias hiding behind a hissy fit from a mile off.

    If you were on the receiving end of it you might think differently, as you do in your car incident for example.


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    #1026
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    AEDIC wrote: »
    If you were on the receiving end of it you might think differently, as you do in your car incident for example.

    I think you need to adjust your sense of proportion meter. :rolleyes:

    If you are going to make a drunken comment, (frequently said in jest, by insensitve louts btw) representative of anything other than drunken louts then I'm out of your sphere of influence I'm afraid. You have bigger problems just getting out of your house.


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    #1027
    AEDIC
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭AEDIC


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I think you need to adjust your sense of proportion meter. :rolleyes:

    If you are going to make a drunken comment, (frequently said in jest, by insensitve louts btw) representative of anything other than drunken louts then I'm out of your sphere of influence I'm afraid. You have bigger problems just getting out of your house.

    Again - resorting to getting personal. Are you really sure you are stable enough to be on boards?

    You need to read what is posted.... I am not making any opinion about the incident, I AM however, making comment about your blinkered view based on your own bias about the opinions and experiences that other people whose view does not agree with yours are 'allowed' to have.

    Simply because you refuse to have it register on YOUR scale of potentially violent threats, doesn't mean that it should be ridiculed or the honesty of the 'victim' questioned.


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    #1028
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    AEDIC wrote: »

    You need to read what is posted..

    I did and I reacted to it's validity as a contribution to the thread. Is that not allowed on Boards? Is it a platform for opinion or not?


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    #1029
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    jugger0 wrote: »
    The south didn't discriminate against protestants, we had a protestant president ! while meanwhile in the north Catholics couldn't get jobs or homes and were routinely killed for being a different religion. Obviously the protestants who left were unionists and couldn't stand being under the rule of "free state bastards" or whatever else those lads like to call us.
    how can you stand there with a straight face and say that,we are talking about 18% of irishmen who left ireland to go to another country because they were protestant,it seems strange to me to see that northern irelands population never changes dispite the troubles,yet south of the border over 40,000 young irishmen are leaving the country every year to live in protestant foreign countries like england,scotland,wales and northern ireland,


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    #1030
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Catholics share parity of esteem, equal oppurtunities, and power in the North now, because of the efforts of some or had that escaped your attention?
    Protestants always had that in the South; where even allowed to and got funding for a distinct and separate education system, and had the unfettered ability to rise to the top-politically (and frequently did) and in all strands of life. Their decline is down to other reasons and not any directed or official policy of discrimination.
    maybe you do not know,but the irish goverment is in breach of the european courts for child human rights,its about the church control of education...,many irish protestants and jews after 1920 found that they would have difficulty getting places in schools for their children,beds in the catholic run hospitals and the other state catholic run services,a research by a university in cork on the decrease in non catholics in the state believe that is the reason many left,another reason was the clampdown by the catholic church on mixed marriages,


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    #1031
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    getz wrote: »
    how can you stand there with a straight face and say that,we are talking about 18% of irishmen who left ireland to go to another country because they were protestant,it seems strange to me to see that northern irelands population never changes dispite the troubles,yet south of the border over 40,000 young irishmen are leaving the country every year to live in protestant foreign countries like england,scotland,wales and northern ireland,
    Where are you getting the figure that 27% of the population of the 26 counties was protestant. Bit odd considering in the 1911 census it was less than 11%!


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    #1032
    AEDIC
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭AEDIC


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I did and I reacted to it's validity as a contribution to the thread. Is that not allowed on Boards? Is it a platform for opinion or not?


    Indeed - and it is also possible to put over your own opinion without ridiculing the experiences or opinion of another.

    Dismissing it out of hand because it doesn't fit with your own agenda is in my opinion puerile.

    My comment about not reading the posts btw was directed at you not reading mine properly and resorting to getting personal, not the original poster you took exception to.


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    #1033
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    AEDIC wrote: »
    Indeed - and it is also possible to put over your own opinion without ridiculing the experiences or opinion of another.

    Dismissing it out of hand because it doesn't fit with your own agenda is in my opinion puerile.

    My comment about not reading the posts btw was directed at you not reading mine properly and resorting to getting personal, not the original poster you took exception to.


    I don't have and never did have a problem ridiculing and dismissing, out of context, off topic, hysterical posts.
    The thread is about 'orange provocation not Clare barflys or English visitors who shouldn't be let out on their own. ;)


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    #1034
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    getz wrote: »
    we are talking about 18% of irishmen who left ireland

    Just as well they did...I married one of the women they left behind. ;)


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    #1035
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Was your husband taking responsibility for the people in England who put out signs saying 'No Dogs, No Irish'? Because if he wasn't then a drunk mouthing off in a bar in Clare is hardly the responsibility of SF or the IRA nor is he representative of sober and committed republican citizens.
    The idiocy and feigned victimhood of some of our English visitors is already legendary and laughable, your story is just another contribution to that long list!

    yeah, right.

    Feigned victimhood :rolleyes:


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    #1036
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    Where are you getting the figure that 27% of the population of the 26 counties was protestant. Bit odd considering in the 1911 census it was less than 11%!
    yes it is odd it was from a study by a cork university,but this may give some insite into the protestant decline,in 1989 the influential dublin magazine magill,printed figures showing that between the census of 1911-the last to preecede the treaty-and 1981, the protestant population in the 26 counties fell by 63%,the drop up to 1989 it is estimated at 68%,the causes of this dramatic decrease-from 10% in 1911 to 3.4% in 1981 and about 2.5% in the late 80 -were listed as :alianation from the ethos of the state,;emigration,and over later decades mixed marriges,the roman churches decree,backed by the irish courts that in mixed marriges children must be brought up as roman catholics,created ;social and cultural apartheid;which more often than not,heralded the end of the line for protestant families,the single bigest drop in protestant numbers says the magazine occurred between 1911 and 1926 when a third of the population left the state,


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    #1037
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    yeah, right.

    Feigned victimhood :rolleyes:

    I made no comment on the 'signs', or tried to make them representative of anything, but I could have if I indulged in the same hysterical Duffyisms that the poster did. The poster was trying to make a generalisation of a glib drunken comment from somebody who may or may not have been involved in the conflict. There are plenty of fireside republicans just as there are plenty of moral high grounders.


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    #1038
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    getz wrote: »
    yes it is odd it was from a study by a cork university,but this may give some insite into the protestant decline,in 1989 the influential dublin magazine magill,printed figures showing that between the census of 1911-the last to preecede the treaty-and 1981, the protestant population in the 26 counties fell by 63%,the drop up to 1989 it is estimated at 68%,the causes of this dramatic decrease-from 10% in 1911 to 3.4% in 1981 and about 2.5% in the late 80 -were listed as :alianation from the ethos of the state,;emigration,and over later decades mixed marriges,the roman churches decree,backed by the irish courts that in mixed marriges children must be brought up as roman catholics,created ;social and cultural apartheid;which more often than not,heralded the end of the line for protestant families,the single bigest drop in protestant numbers says the magazine occurred between 1911 and 1926 when a third of the population left the state,

    A link to source would be mannerly, as would punctuation. ;)


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    #1039
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I don't have and never did have a problem ridiculing and dismissing, out of context, off topic, hysterical posts.
    The thread is about 'orange provocation not Clare barflys or English visitors who shouldn't be let out on their own. ;)
    would you still be a happyman if none of the three million a year english visitors did not spend their money/holidays in ireland ?,you give me a good laugh anyway


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    #1040
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I made no comment on the 'signs', or tried to make them representative of anything, but I could have if I indulged in the same hysterical Duffyisms that the poster did. The poster was trying to make a generalisation of a glib drunken comment from somebody who may or may not have been involved in the conflict. There are plenty of fireside republicans just as there are plenty of moral high grounders.

    You were doing exactly what you accused another poster of doing to be honest.

    I've never seen any English people feign victimhood on here either, so I'm not sure how you can dismiss this as laughable.


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    #1041
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    getz wrote: »
    would you still be a happyman if none of the three million a year english visitors did not spend their money/holidays in ireland ?,you give me a good laugh anyway

    Would the English have any decent roads to drive on if the Irish had taken seriously their incipient and latent rascism over the years? Get a grip and a sense of proportion!:rolleyes:


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    #1042
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Fratton Fred wrote: »

    I've never seen any English people feign victimhood on here either, so I'm not sure how you can dismiss this as laughable.

    Exactly, it is generally stated secondhand by Irish posters with another agenda.


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    #1043
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Would the English have any decent roads to drive on if the Irish had taken seriously their incipient and latent rascism over the years? Get a grip and a sense of proportion!:rolleyes:
    that does not make sense


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    #1044
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Would the English have any decent roads to drive on if the Irish had taken seriously their incipient and latent rascism over the years? Get a grip and a sense of proportion!:rolleyes:

    English roads built by the Irish
    Irish Roads built by the Polish.
    I wonder who is building Polish roads?:D


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    #1045
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    English roads built by the Irish
    Irish Roads built by the Polish.
    I wonder who is building Polish roads?:D
    dont know but i bet the money came from the german/french/UK taxpayers


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    #1046
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Exactly, it is generally stated secondhand by Irish posters with another agenda.

    Not wishing to drag this off topic, but that may be because Irish people are more sensitive to it.

    I've had abuse for being English, but only from the usual ****wit who would also abuse a lampost if they thought it would react. I've always dismissed this because I don't care if a ****wit wants to abuse me for being English. I'm English by birth, they are a ****wit by choice.

    My Irish friends always react though, because they see it as an embarrassment and a slur on them, almost guilty by association if you like. There's no need for them to feel like that, but I guess I would feel the same.


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    #1047
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    getz wrote: »
    that does not make sense

    Generalising drunken comments into them being representative of anything other that drunken slobbering is what didn't make any sense.
    If tourists are put off by such, it would have happened long ago, in darker and more unpolitically correct times.


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    #1048
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    There is a topic. Stick to it. And stop dragging the thread off that topic.


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    #1049
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Not wishing to drag this off topic, but that may be because Irish people are more sensitive to it.

    I've had abuse for being English, but only from the usual ****wit who would also abuse a lampost if they thought it would react. I've always dismissed this because I don't care if a ****wit wants to abuse me for being English. I'm English by birth, they are a ****wit by choice.

    My Irish friends always react though, because they see it as an embarrassment and a slur on them, almost guilty by association if you like. There's no need for them to feel like that, but I guess I would feel the same.

    As I would...react whenever anybody slurs a foreign friend. But that is generally that, I don't go on to try and infer that the comment is representative of the mindset of any others, I wouldn't even infer that it is the view of the guy sitting next to the ****wit.
    As I say, some people need to get a sense of proportion when faced with common or garden ****wittery.


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    #1050
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    getz wrote: »
    yes it is odd it was from a study by a cork university,but this may give some insite into the protestant decline,in 1989 the influential dublin magazine magill,printed figures showing that between the census of 1911-the last to preecede the treaty-and 1981, the protestant population in the 26 counties fell by 63%,the drop up to 1989 it is estimated at 68%,the causes of this dramatic decrease-from 10% in 1911 to 3.4% in 1981 and about 2.5% in the late 80 -were listed as :alianation from the ethos of the state,;emigration,and over later decades mixed marriges,the roman churches decree,backed by the irish courts that in mixed marriges children must be brought up as roman catholics,created ;social and cultural apartheid;which more often than not,heralded the end of the line for protestant families,the single bigest drop in protestant numbers says the magazine occurred between 1911 and 1926 when a third of the population left the state,

    Any chance of a link to this study?


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    #1051
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Any chance of a link to this study?
    i have been unable to get the link up from the magill archives in 1989,but i have found the study on a ian paisleys website, ianpaisley.org/artical.asap%3FArtKey%Dtreatment


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