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10 shot dead at Batman showing in Denver

1…4344464849

Comments

  • #1352
    Lord of the Bongs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Lord of the Bongs


    Nodin wrote: »
    Did you read the article and/or watch the video?

    i read some of the article, but its impossible to track homicides, rapes etc from centuries past as they are not properly recorded, so u cant really compare them to modern times imo


  • #1353
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lord of the Bongs wrote: »
    was it funny cus i cant access utube in work? all that effort for nothing :p
    Research on the history of crime from the thirteenth century until

    the end of the twentieth has burgeoned and has greatly increased

    understanding of historical trends in crime and crime control. Serious

    interpersonal violence decreased remarkably in Europe between the

    mid-sixteenth and the early twentieth centuries. Different long-term

    trajectories in the decline of homicide can be distinguished between

    various European regions. Age and sex patterns in serious violent

    offending, however, have changed very little over several centuries.

    The long-term decline in homicide rates seems to go along with a

    disproportionate decline in elite homicide and a drop in male-to-male

    conflicts in public space.

    http://soci.ucalgary.ca/brannigan/sites/soci.ucalgary.ca.brannigan/files/long-term-historical-trends-of-violent-crime.pdf


  • #1354
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lord of the Bongs wrote: »
    i read some of the article, but its impossible to track homicides, rapes etc from centuries past as they are not properly recorded, so u cant really compare them to modern times imo

    ....yet the recorded rate was higher, so even if the majority weren't properly recorded, theres still a massive drop.


  • #1355
    Lord of the Bongs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Lord of the Bongs


    Nodin wrote: »
    [/SIZE]
    http://soci.ucalgary.ca/brannigan/sites/soci.ucalgary.ca.brannigan/files/long-term-historical-trends-of-violent-crime.pdf
    [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

    i would have thought the decrease would have been in violence towards women, especially in the last 150 years I would said. interesting


  • #1356
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    RVP 11 wrote: »
    Jesus, that's just crazy.
    His doctor, the theatre, Warner Bros??

    Only in America.....

    In fairness, when I went through Law in UCD, one of the things they pointed out was that when deciding who to sue, look at the person with the biggest pockets first. Start with the government, and work your way down. Doesn't matter who was most at fault, the question is who can be worth sueing. The killer is the fact that the loser often doesn't pay the winner's costs in civil lawsuits in the US. As a result, if you can afford your own lawyer's fees, it's your choice how much of a gamble you want to take in sueing whoever.
    He's probably a guy on his way home from doing his military service. It's not that he's scared somebody is going to have to be dissuaded from relieving him of his jar of Nestle's milk by having a sub machine gun pulled on him.

    Doesn't that rather eliminate the question of the rifle itself from the 'acceptability' equation, though?

    He was more likely just coming back from the range. Shooting is the national sport in Switzerland, and the government encourages people to shoot on their own time. They have national competitions shooting the military rifle from the age of 13.

    http://cdn.cyclingforums.com/5/5a/5aebaeaf_SwissGirlsCycletoShootingMatch.jpeg

    These two lasses are not likely to be going to military service: Any time I've gone to do a bit of time with the Army, I tend to bring things like clothes and toiletries along with me. They're just going to the range. Do the same thing in the US, even though it's legal, and you will likely be contacted by the police in many States, but usually sent on your way after a few minutes. Do it in Switzerland, no issues. Do it in Ireland, the ERU will likely show up. The problem isn't the gun, the problem is people's attitudes towards them and the automatic perception "My God, he has an Evil-Looking Rifle, he must be dangerous or up to no good!"
    to those of you on here, who have some knowledge of how much that amount of ammounition cost,
    can ye give a guess at what he spent to have that huge amount, and how is it one person was able to possess that much without being questioned by the suppliers of this.
    i know nothing about firearms, so this is why i ask these questions

    In addition to the earlier link, see also http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79894896&postcount=1222
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79899200&postcount=1228

    But doing some quick maths on the practicalities, it's not all that much money if you fancy doing a repeat.

    You can get a servicable AR-15 for about $1,200, less if you build it yourself. But the typical one is $1,600-$2,000 for a good one. 300 rounds of .223 will set you back a touch over $100. Glocks go for about $800 per, he had two of them, let's say he had 60 rounds per pistol, maybe $50 total. Level II body armour (will stop pistols, not rifles) is about $250 for the torso, so let's tool up with a bit of arm, leg etc, maybe $600?

    Grand total for your own, do-it-yourself cinema massacre kit, $3,500 or so, plus shipping and handling. Since he left one pistol in the car, we can consider it an optional extra, and not checking that box will drop yourself down to about $2,800.

    Not all that expensive, really.

    NTM


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  • #1357
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nodin wrote: »
    So why has Europe been slowly becoming less violent over the last 200 years? A crackdown on "video nasties"?

    Why did you choose 200 years?

    That's like saying that people read more now than 200 years ago so television hasn't affected reading rates. 50 years would be a more relevant timespan and clearly we read less now than then.

    We're not talking about a timepsan of 200 years. We're talking about modern society. Increasingly there is a portrayal of violence as 'cool'. It's a good way to solve your problems. The guy with the gun is a stylised badass and nobody messes with him. Guns are 'sexy' pieces of hardware. In movies and games we see cool-looking slow motion gun fights with thumping music.

    If you think this can't possibly have an effect on young people then you don't understand human psychology. We are products of the societies we live in.


  • #1358
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Deleted User wrote: »
    clearly we read less now than then.

    surely we read far, far, far more than we ever had right now? you know, because of the internet


  • #1359
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why did you choose 200 years?

    That's like saying that people read more now than 200 years ago so television hasn't affected reading rates. 50 years would be a more relevant timespan and clearly we read less now than then.

    We're not talking about a timepsan of 200 years. We're talking about modern society. Increasingly there is a portrayal of violence as 'cool'. It's a good way to solve your problems. The guy with the gun is a stylised badass and nobody messes with him. Guns are 'sexy' pieces of hardware. In movies and games we see cool-looking slow motion gun fights with thumping music.

    If you think this can't possibly have an effect on young people then you don't understand human psychology. We are products of the societies we live in.

    So rather than look at studies that take in data over a long span, you'd rather just have a good oul sensationalist rant with no basis in fact whatsoever....righty-o.
    Increasingly there is a portrayal of violence as 'cool'. It's a good way to solve your problems.

    Yet any number of studies show thats far less likely to happen in modern times as previously.


  • #1360
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Helix wrote: »
    surely we read far, far, far more than we ever had right now? you know, because of the internet
    If you don't know what an analogy is, please stay out of the discussion.


  • #1361
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you don't know what an analogy is, please stay out of the discussion.

    I think it fair ro say that he knows what it is, and that your one was seriously flawed as he pointed out.


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  • #1362
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Just for your info

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-18980974



    The number of people seeking to buy guns in Colorado has soared since last week's mass shooting in the US state's town of Aurora, say law officials.

    In the three days after the shooting, applications for the background checks needed to buy a gun legally were up 43% on the previous week.


  • #1363
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,965 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Lord of the Bongs wrote: »
    See my above post the main issue is not that he did what he did its WHY he did it. Batman is full of guns and explosions, death and murder, it escapism but to younger people the fantasy can appear real and well, eventually lead a person to imitate it just as what actually happened.

    I think you need to go back to your bong.


  • #1364
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,054 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why did you choose 200 years?

    That's like saying that people read more now than 200 years ago so television hasn't affected reading rates. 50 years would be a more relevant timespan and clearly we read less now than then.

    We're not talking about a timepsan of 200 years. We're talking about modern society. Increasingly there is a portrayal of violence as 'cool'. It's a good way to solve your problems. The guy with the gun is a stylised badass and nobody messes with him. Guns are 'sexy' pieces of hardware. In movies and games we see cool-looking slow motion gun fights with thumping music.

    If you think this can't possibly have an effect on young people then you don't understand human psychology. We are products of the societies we live in.

    Before guns it was swords, the best warriors and hunters have always been glorified through out human history. Its human nature to glorify this kind of thing from cave paintings to ancient mythology. I don't think modern society is any different in that regard. I agree we are products of the society we live in but society is a product of our own nature as is the art our society produces.


  • #1365
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nodin wrote: »
    I think it fair ro say that he knows what it is, and that your one was seriously flawed as he pointed out.

    If you genuinely think that's what he was pointing out, then you don't have the intellect for an an adult discussion either. However I suspect you know exactly what he was doing.

    He was nit-pick my wording of the analogy, rather than the analogy itself. Clearly I was referring to book-reading. The point was that if you want to look at the effect of television on book-reading, you don't pull up statistics from 200 years when television didn't exist and books were not as widely available or affordable to the common person.

    Similarly if you want to look at the effect of violence in modern popular culture, you don't pull up statistics for 200 years ago. You look at recent statistics. Do you think spree shootings in the US are becoming more or less common?


  • #1366
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,054 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's like saying that people read more now than 200 years ago so television hasn't affected reading rates. 50 years would be a more relevant timespan and clearly we read less now than then.

    I'm not entirely sure you're right about that now i think of it, I think more people read now than 50 years ago. Access to books is a lot easier plus I'd be very surprised if literacy rates are lower now than they were 50 years ago?


  • #1367
    scamalert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,732 ✭✭✭scamalert


    wtf this thread turned into who reads books versus movies or what :confused:
    Point being anyone who went to see the movie should have their money returned,biggest piece of $hit it was (maybe for 10-15years old ok) but otherwise the scenario made 0 sense,crap effects,and common batman got his back broken and 5 minutes later hes climbing walls out of the hardest prison,and winter came as well,where did time go :pac: (sorry for spoilers)
    but the guy who did the shooting probably didn't even wait for movie to start and started shooting while trailers were still on,so its rather more of coincidence and mental problems not movie influence.The good thing is the state supports death penalty and hopefully that's whats hes getting.


  • #1368
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ..............

    Similarly if you want to look at the effect of violence in modern popular culture, you don't pull up statistics for 200 years ago. You look at recent statistics. Do you think spree shootings in the US are becoming more or less common?

    What would that have to do with the effect of movies? You'd have to show linkage.


  • #1369
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Lord of the Bongs wrote: »
    Whether you can acknowledge it or not these films and video games are a real motivator in producing people who go on these killing sprees. Yes, thankfully it doesnt have the same effect on all people and its not the sole reason but taking this latest one as an example of how they do affect someones character, he was clearly influenced by the Joker, and presumably had be planning to do this on the opening of batmans 3rd film for ages. He could have killed someone in a library but choose this film and time are his target. Why do u think he did that?

    people who are capable of killing sprees will always be capable of them. yes they might get some of their ideas from tv or games, but the want to do it has to exist there already. there's no motivation to be found in those things. otherwise why did we never have murder before movies and games appeared?

    and what about the modern day killers who don't watch movies or play games? why do they kill?

    people like this guy will do it regardless, blaming something that billions of people enjoy without issue is ridiculous. stress would be a much, much bigger cause of people snapping like this


  • #1370
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    scamalert wrote: »
    The good thing is the state supports death penalty and hopefully that's whats hes getting.

    I wouldn't count on that. Only one person has been executed in Colorado since 1975 when the death penalty was reintroduced, and besides; I'd be hugely surprised if he's deemed to be of a sound mind by the end of all of this. I reckon he'll spend the rest of his life in a secure mental facility.


  • #1371
    scamalert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,732 ✭✭✭scamalert


    My name is URL wrote: »
    I wouldn't count on that. Only one person has been executed in Colorado since 1975 when the death penalty was reintroduced, and besides; I'd be hugely surprised if he's deemed to be of a sound mind by the end of all of this. I reckon he'll spend the rest of his life in a secure mental facility.
    they said hes mentally stable if you dont count 10 dead,as for death penalty,i heard they gonna plea that he would be locked down instead.Not the best example in my opinion after such actions.


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  • #1372
    Reindeer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    RVP 11 wrote: »
    They happen in the us more regularly because you can buy guns on the Internet ffs

    You've now stated this several times. I think it's important to note that, though certain firearms may be purchased via the internet in the States, it is not legal to deliver that firearm directly to you unless you yourself are a licensed and registered federal firearms dealer or distributor. To do so would mean brutal punishments for the distributor or dealer. All firearm purchases, even by law enforcement, must occur at the premises of a legally licensed firearms dealer. You must fill out paperwork for the transfer. They use the term 'transfer' because every new gun in the US is tracked from manufacturer to distributor to dealer to buyer by registering that firearm in to their possession legally, leaving a clear paper trail of ownership up to point of sale. You must then pass a federal background check performed by the ATF/FBI, be of proper age(21 for handguns 18 for long guns), Be a US citizen, have proper ID, and a social #. If any of these do not jive, at a minimum your purchase is denied or delayed and investigated. My first few purchases took a while(5 days) as I am born in a foreign country to the US, so they spend the extra time checking my citizenship. I have since acquired a permit to carry, which requires the same checks and a local background check as well, and some firearms testing, and then clears you ahead of time for firearms purchases for up to five years(it is simply a box you check on the transfer form).

    The FBI have a department specifically chartered to deal solely with firearms point of sale purchases:

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/nics


  • #1373
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    A local Fox News channel came off sounding more like Alex Jones than the mainstream media when it listed a series of unanswered questions that challenge the official narrative of the ‘Batman’ massacre and suggest a wider plot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jeW_-Kq7vA


    http://www.fox19.com/story/19104797/reality-check-unanswered-questions-about-colorado-theater-massacre


  • #1374
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    unanswered questions that challenge the official narrative of the ‘Batman’ massacre and suggest a wider plot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jeW_-Kq7vA


    http://www.fox19.com/story/19104797/reality-check-unanswered-questions-about-colorado-theater-massacre

    My god you're right. This is CLEARLY a Japanese run mission to deflect media attention from Fukushima. Or no wait, it's NASA!! Maybe a journalist was getting too close to 'the truth' about the moon landings. Have you checked to see if a journalist was killed in the incident?


  • #1375
    Bradidup
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 586 ✭✭✭Bradidup


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    My god you're right. This is CLEARLY a Japanese run mission to deflect media attention from Fukushima. Or no wait, it's NASA!! Maybe a journalist was getting too close to 'the truth' about the moon landings. Have you checked to see if a journalist was killed in the incident?
    Your not even funny.


  • #1376
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Bradidup wrote: »
    Your not even funny.

    Are you his mother? Has he always had... problems?


  • #1377
    Bradidup
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 586 ✭✭✭Bradidup


    Canis Lupus wrote: »

    Are you his mother? Has he always had... problems?
    lad, it's way past your bedtime.


  • #1378
    DB21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,715 ✭✭✭DB21


    Bradidup wrote: »
    Your not even funny.

    I disagree. The enemy of my enemy...


  • #1379
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Bradidup wrote: »
    lad, it's way past your bedtime.

    I'm in Australia, morning time here :)


  • #1380
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,594 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I picked this up from The Examiner, but it's originally from... >_>.... Fox News.


    Holmes sent plans to psychiatrist before Colorado shootings
    Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 10:09 PM

    It has been reported that the suspect in the Denver cinema shooting sent a notebook outlining his plans to a psychiatrist, before going on the rampage, killing 12 people.

    US website FoxNews.com has said that the parcel may have sat unopened in a mail room at the University of Colorado for as long as a week, before it was discovered on Monday.

    It is thought that it had James Holmes' name and address on it.


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  • #1381
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Reindeer wrote: »
    You've now stated this several times. I think it's important to note that, though certain firearms may be purchased via the internet in the States, it is not legal to deliver that firearm directly to you unless you yourself are a licensed and registered federal firearms dealer or distributor. To do so would mean brutal punishments for the distributor or dealer. All firearm purchases, even by law enforcement, must occur at the premises of a legally licensed firearms dealer. You must fill out paperwork for the transfer. They use the term 'transfer' because every new gun in the US is tracked from manufacturer to distributor to dealer to buyer by registering that firearm in to their possession legally, leaving a clear paper trail of ownership up to point of sale. You must then pass a federal background check performed by the ATF/FBI, be of proper age(21 for handguns 18 for long guns), Be a US citizen, have proper ID, and a social #. If any of these do not jive, at a minimum your purchase is denied or delayed and investigated. My first few purchases took a while(5 days) as I am born in a foreign country to the US, so they spend the extra time checking my citizenship. I have since acquired a permit to carry, which requires the same checks and a local background check as well, and some firearms testing, and then clears you ahead of time for firearms purchases for up to five years(it is simply a box you check on the transfer form).

    The FBI have a department specifically chartered to deal solely with firearms point of sale purchases:

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/nics

    So tick a few boxes and you can stockpile all the automatic weapons and ammunition you like?, as this killer did?


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