10 shot dead at Batman showing in Denver

Reindeer

Reindeer wrote: »

I hate to derail the thread...

*snip*
When you do the work I do, you WILL run in to bears, and often...

I've also been close to a tree that was hit by lightning not too long ago during a freak storm we had.

*snip*
The bulk of my work is measuring the height, volume, and health of trees in the PNW.

Just as a quick example of what I see when I do my work. I just started my latest cruising contract in Washington State. This is a video I took while a fellow forester and I were relaxing near the Nisqually River earlier today:

That's fairly typical terrain we cruise up here. Most of the trees you are seeing are 2-4 feet in width and 130-180 feet high. I measured one Friday that came in at 6 feet in width at chest height and 190 feet tall.

This photo of the forest floor gives you an idea how you can easily end up running in to wildlife seemingly out of nowhere since the sight distances on the floor isn't't very long.

asherbassad

MadsL wrote: »

I take it you have never eaten game? Nor lived on a farm. Nor lived in remote area with the strong possibility of meeting bears, mountain lions and snakes. Many "Joe citizens" in the US have guns for exactly these purposes. Gunowners in the US have them for a tool and/or home defence. Trust me, the very last thing a gunowner wishes for is to have to use it in their own home.

How many out of the 300 million people in the US live in rural backwaters?
How many live on farms? For starters nobody in America needs a gun to eat. Nobody. You can simply go to a shop and buy meat so spare us the hunting nonsense. People in the US who kill animals for food do it purely out of some macho ego trip. The only people who need weapons to hunt in North America are eskimos and innuits. And even these guys use them sparingly, opting for the traditional, spears, harpoons, arrows, snares and fish-hooks whenever possible.
As for home defence....what do you need a gun for home defence for? When was the last time you heard of anybody's house in your area being broken into and the owner killed or wounded? Get a dog if you're so damn paranoid about intruders and bogeymen. Like we're all lining up to come over to your house, break in and steal your tupperware and chard.

I can understand that sheep farmers might need a rifle to protect their flocks from natural predators like foxes and wolves and probably would need a shotgun to kill eagles who prey on lambs. But that's pretty much it and you don't need a fcuking Barret 50 to kill a wolf or coyote.

Why would anyone need a pistol? Why would anyone need a damn machine gun?

Tym

UN arms treaty takes shape, raising alarm among gun rights advocates

Use Fox news for a source they said, be grand they said.

Duggy747

Posted this over on the film forum but thought I'd put it here too. Hans Zimmer, composer of the film, recorded this in London dedicated to those shot and killed in Aurora.

The song can be bought and all of the donations go towards Aurora Victim Relief organization.

It's essentially a very downtrodden, sombre piece with elements of the Dark Knight in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oTbyENpX58

MadsL

asherbassad wrote: »

How many out of the 300 million people in the US live in rural backwaters?

About 20% [source]

How many live on farms?
About 2% - that's six million people, more than the population of Ireland.

For starters nobody in America needs a gun to eat. Nobody. You can simply go to a shop and buy meat so spare us the hunting nonsense.

You are aware of some of the distances involved in "simply going to a shop" in rural areas, many Americans use hunted meat as a supplement to their regular diet.

People in the US who kill animals for food do it purely out of some macho ego trip

.
Right, not like there are state sponsored culls or anything are there. Oh wait...

The only people who need weapons to hunt in North America are eskimos and innuits.

Oh dear, you do realise the epic fail you just made which displays your absolute ignorance of indigenous people in America.

And even these guys use them sparingly, opting for the traditional, spears, harpoons, arrows, snares and fish-hooks whenever possible.

Sure they do :rolleyes: Born to Use a Rifle, Net and Trap, A Native Inuit Mourns a Lost Way of Life
Yes, I must remind my wife's Native American colleague to make sure she wears her squaw dress and moccasins always to the office. How else will she fit the stereotype.

As for home defence....what do you need a gun for home defence for?

Oddly enough, for defence.

When was the last time you heard of anybody's house in your area being broken into and the owner killed or wounded?

Couple of months ago
Are you so out of touch that you seriously think this doesn't happen? I'm a realist, so I know the chances of it happening are low, but if it does I'd prefer not to have to watch my wife killed or raped as a consequence of me waking up and having a shoe as my only defence. I'm not out stalking the neighbourhood looking for someone to shoot, but if they enter my house do you think calling out "I'm calling 911" has as much impact as racking the slide on a shotgun and demanding they leave?

Get a dog if you're so damn paranoid about intruders and bogeymen. Like we're all lining up to come over to your house, break in and steal your tupperware and chard.

Are you always this patronising or just when you know very little about what you are talking about? In 2007 there were 5,722 Burglaries in my city area of a half milion so 1% of the houses are getting burgled each year. Home invasions are not uncommon as part of that statistic (there is no crime of "home invasion" so they are not recorded) but my local papers search function lists 277 such incidents.

I notice elsewhere you have no hesitation in advocating hiring someone to do your violence for you;
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79983109&postcount=24

75k can hire a lot of muscle to get things done when the courts screw you.

I can understand that sheep farmers might need a rifle to protect their flocks from natural predators like foxes and wolves

Maybe they could take a lesson from the "Eskimos" and use snares.

and probably would need a shotgun to kill eagles who prey on lambs.

Oh dear, you really are clueless. Anything big enough to carry a lamb (and that is debatable) is protected by law.

But that's pretty much it and you don't need a fcuking Barret 50 to kill a wolf or coyote.

And here's the evidence that all you know about firearms has been gleaned in front of the Xbox.

Why would anyone need a pistol?

Read Reindeers posts.
The flippent answer is because a rifle is too big to fit in your pocket or purse, and the real answer is because a rifle is too big to fit in your pocket or purse

Why would anyone need a damn machine gun?

Very few do. That's why you need a special permit, and they are very hard and expensive to get.

Nodin

asherbassad wrote: »

........

Why would anyone need a pistol? Why would anyone need a damn machine gun?

Why not?

Wibbs

Reindeer wrote: »

Just as a quick example of what I see when I do my work. I just started my latest cruising contract in Washington State. This is a video I took while a fellow forester and I were relaxing near the Nisqually River earlier today:

I soooo want to cast a line on that river.

Suryavarman

James Holmes has had 142 charges filed against him including 24 for first degree murder. Full story here.

CENTENNIAL, Colo. — Prosecutors on Monday filed 142 charges — including 24 for first-degree murder — against James Holmes, the former graduate student who is accused of killing 12 people and injuring 58 during a shooting spree at an Aurora, Colo., movie theater early July 20.

In addition to first-degree murder, Holmes was charged with 116 counts of attempted murder, one sentence enhancer because the attack was a crime of violence and one charge of possession of explosive devices. The murder charges carry a minimum penalty of life in prison and a maximum of death.

For each of the 12 people killed in the attack, Holmes faces two charges of first-degree murder, one for acting after deliberation and with intent, the other for for acting with malice and having “an extreme indifference to the value of human life.” Holmes was charged with two counts of attempted first-degree murder for each of the 58 injured.

Reindeer

Wibbs wrote: »

I soooo want to cast a line on that river.

Lots of Salmon in parts. Also trout. All in all, I am told over 90 types of fish.

To keep it pertinent, I must add in response to Asher's post:

Every single Native American I know owns firearms. Very few have but one. I am part Cherokee myself. In some altercations with the US military during the indian wars and skirmishes, the Indians were better armed, with more reliable rifles with higher rates of fire and power than the US military. That was nearly 150 years ago. While some may practice traditional customs, most hunt for food with a rifle or pistol. Many folks in cities also buy food that was hunted since it is organic. Many BBQ's I visited in Texas had deer meat and sausage on the menu in season.

Your post also shows your profound ignorance of both urban and rural life in the States as others have and will point out.

Run_to_da_hills

The same lawyer that represented Timothy McVeigh during his appeal is the same attorney assigned to James Holmes.

Micky Dolenz

Reindeer wrote: »

Just as a quick example of what I see when I do my work. I just started my latest cruising contract in Washington State. This is a video I took while a fellow forester and I were relaxing near the Nisqually River earlier today:

That's fairly typical terrain we cruise up here. Most of the trees you are seeing are 2-4 feet in width and 130-180 feet high. I measured one Friday that came in at 6 feet in width at chest height and 190 feet tall.

This photo of the forest floor gives you an idea how you can easily end up running in to wildlife seemingly out of nowhere since the sight distances on the floor isn't't very long.

Any chance of a job?

Reindeer

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Any chance of a job?

If this looks like a good time here from about 4:00 onward, by all means:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P7RItPVcZg

That is circa 1978 in British Columbia, and not too much has changed. We have GPS handhelds now, and data recorders and laser rangefinders. I don't have a laser clinometer, so I take all measurements by hand and eye instruments. All the kit is roughly twice the costs of a theater invasion kit for all your cruising needs.

You need a forestry tech or degree to work for the state or feds. Since I contract to third parties, I actually do not need to have anything aside from insurance and some familiarity with the work. A 4x4 is a must. I have slept nearly 30 nights in my truck(a 1988 Ford Bronco) since the start of summer, so a big 4x4 with room to stretch out is a bonus, especially since my greyhound is always with me. I'm currently awaiting some plot data, so am chiling at a fellow foresters pad.

http://www.pbase.com/wyk/image/144577160/large.jpg

Reindeer

asherbassad wrote: »

...
I can understand that sheep farmers might need a rifle to protect their flocks from natural predators like foxes and wolves and probably would need a shotgun to kill eagles who prey on lambs. But that's pretty much it and you don't need a fcuking Barret 50 to kill a wolf or coyote.
...

I don't know about a 50bmg, but a North American Gray Wolf can get to 65 Kilo or so. Most hunters or ranch owners would use a 308 or 30-06 or similar cartridge in such an instance. These have roughly twice as much kenetic energy and range as an AR15 or M4/M16 does. Many WWII military and sniper rifles are used for hunting since they are robust and affordable being second hand.

As stated previously, any raptor capable of hauling lamb away are protected. Not only are they protected, they are heavily and federally protected. Many states also have enacted laws to protect these species as well. The two raptors capable of such an act are Golden Eagles and Bald Eagles. The Golden Eagle is quite a large bird with a wing span of up to 2.5 metres, with Bald Eagles seeing up to 2.3 metres. It's talons are the size of your hand, and could easily rip your hands apart. Simply having a carcass in your possession is a $5,000 fine(and the feds rarely go easy on wildlife crime). A feather is a $200+ fine. If they can prove you shotgunned one purposefully, that fine is up to $500,000 and 2 years in federal prison. They are probably the most protected species by the US government. Some Native Americans are allowed to collect feathers, and one tribe was allowed a limited hunt by federal government some time ago. All others face steep penalties. I've not seen a Golden Eagle in person in the wild, but I have probably seen dozens of Bald Eagles as they are now common. Balds are protected by virtue of being the symbol of the USA. We've got a few locally here buzzing about.

Most firearms would be used for varmint control, up to coyote, with wolves being included in that list in the northwest for ranchers and land owners only. Black bear can be taken out of season if they are on your own private property threatening you or your livestock, as well as if you are legally on government land protecting yourself.

EZ24GET

I do live in backwater U.S. and that fades into rural farmland. This area has been affected greatly by the financial crisis, There are more drug dealers, more young (and old) addicted to drugs and desperate for money to buy more, people who have slid off the unemployment rolls- time's up sorry. There is no welfare in this area only aid to dependent children. No children= no help. I am always amazed by people outside the U.S. who believe everyone here is living the "good" life. Having said all that, in this part of the country people do hunt to put meat on the table. Also someone needs to keep the population of certain animals down. Deer would take over,they actually are responsible for more deaths from animals here in a year than from all the rest of deaths from other animals combined. They tend to jump in front of cars. We do have coyotes, and occasionally a bear wanders through. Guns are for protection, hunting and preserving a way of life.
We have only been the United States of America since the 1700s and if we hadn't been armed then we would never have been the U.S.A. at all.

Wompa1

EZ24GET wrote: »

No children= no help. I am always amazed by people outside the U.S. who believe everyone here is living the "good" life.

I can only speak for me but my perception of America was that it wasn't really the "good" life. You have to earn your way there and receive little to no handouts, unlike in most of Europe.

The "good" life in America would be my perception of certain states that get nice weather and also in America or at least the places I've been to the amount of choice in everything is much greater than anywhere else I have been to. The essentials also seem to be cheaper and taxes are that bit lower but no, certainly not the "good" life because there's a lot of pressure.

MadsL

EZ24GET wrote: »

I do live in backwater U.S. and that fades into rural farmland. This area has been affected greatly by the financial crisis, There are more drug dealers, more young (and old) addicted to drugs and desperate for money to buy more, people who have slid off the unemployment rolls- time's up sorry. There is no welfare in this area only aid to dependent children. No children= no help. I am always amazed by people outside the U.S. who believe everyone here is living the "good" life. Having said all that, in this part of the country people do hunt to put meat on the table. Also someone needs to keep the population of certain animals down. Deer would take over,they actually are responsible for more deaths from animals here in a year than from all the rest of deaths from other animals combined. They tend to jump in front of cars. We do have coyotes, and occasionally a bear wanders through. Guns are for protection, hunting and preserving a way of life.
We have only been the United States of America since the 1700s and if we hadn't been armed then we would never have been the U.S.A. at all.

Great post, although living in New Mexico I would like to point out we have only been the United States of America since 1912

Manic Moran

This is a video I took while a fellow forester and I were relaxing near the Nisqually River earlier today:

That can't be Fort Lewis like you claim in the video. I see no ant hills.

Reindeer

Manic Moran wrote: »

That can't be Fort Lewis like you claim in the video. I see no ant hills.

That's right, you may have trained there.

It's ROTC time and cadets are everywhere. We're doing the forest inventory for the base right now.

http://www.pbase.com/wyk/image/145069005/large.jpg

http://youtu.be/IkNFpHJJDt0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUHOIax9a5w

Almost forgot to mention - the largest ant-hill I saw on the fort was in the eastern quadrant, and it came up to about waist high. Here's an image of a monster one in Oregon under the shade of a big leaf maple judging by the leaves: http://www.splintercat.org/PortlandHikers/WarrenCreekAnthill01.jpg

Corkfeen

I'm surely not the only person who is slowly getting jealous of Reindeer.... :pac:

Reindeer

Corkfeen wrote: »

I'm surely not the only person who is slowly getting jealous of Reindeer.... :pac:

Don't be. I got eaten alive by mosquitoes yesterday, and that was with using 100% DEET since I knew I would be in a wetlands. A work mate in a different area fell in to an overgrown fox hole. A miracle he didn't get injured. I did find some M16 mgazines the other day, and some para-cord as well as some Army issue tactical gloves. The pay is crap, tho. I mean, it's good when yer working, but with the negotiations and the set backs on this project, we are only averaging 3 days a week work the last few weeks. And here I am today waiting on stand data. We didn't get our plot data yesterday so now I am sitting on me arse, unable to work.We are paid by the plot of data,not the hour. So you got to hussle. I'm a newb, and the best I have done so far is 19 plots in day. The experienced guys with lasers do 25 to nearly 30 day. They claim we will get the data it today. Just in time for me to work the weekend...

Manic Moran

Reindeer wrote: »

That's right, you may have trained there.

Been there twice. Once for OCS, after all the ROTC chaps have gone through, so the land navigation course was a bit of a joke (Just follow the cadet trails), and once for a few months in pre-deployment for Iraq.

The terrain similarity is astonishing.

B.A._Baracus

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/08/07/man-arrested-dark-knight-rises-ohio/ (www.IMBD.com is also reporting it)

Authorities say a Cleveland-area man has been arrested for carrying a gun, ammunition, and several knives into a showing of the The Dark Knight Rises. Police in Westlake, Ohio say a manager was suspicious of the man and his satchel when he entered the theater for the 10 p.m. Saturday showing of the Batman movie.
The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that the manager and an off-duty police officer working security searched the bag and found the weapons. He was arrested without incident. His home was searched Monday night.
The suspect’s name and other details have not been released.
A 24-year-old man is charged with killing 12 people and wounding 58 at a midnight showing of the The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colo., on July 20.

Colmustard

ScumLord wrote: »

I would have thought that was a myth that Americans thought about non-Americans view of America. Parts of America are 3rd world poor by European standards. Some people are living on less than $200 a month if they're lucky.

I seen a documentary about Alabama and one of the contributors said about one of the communities that these are probably the poorest white people in the world.

They probably were apart from some parts of the former soviet union.

MadsL

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/08/07/man-arrested-dark-knight-rises-ohio/ (www.IMBD.com is also reporting it)

The only law he broke there was probably the "no guns" sign on the wall. Not defending the guy, but he could have done that innocently, unthinkingly and without any malice aforethought. Stupid, and he has some explaining to do.

the poorest white people in the world.

One in six Americans kids is said to go hungry URL="http://feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts.aspx"]source[/URL . Foodbanks are everywhere and Americans for the most part incredibly generous.

Basq

Quick bump for this!

The BBC documentary on the topic - The Batman Shootings - is on BBC3 at 9pm..

Amal Fashanu talks to survivors of the massacre at a showing of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colorado, on July 20. Young Americans reveal their attitudes towards gun ownership, which is enshrined in the US Constitution, and share their views on whether gunman James Holmes should face the death penalty for his actions

MadsL

Young Americans reveal their attitudes towards gun ownership

Can't help thinking these will be carefully edited for maximum European incredulity.

JustAddWater

Jesus!

This town can't catch a break.... Another shooting in aurora

http://news.sky.com/story/1033856/aurora-hostage-stand-off-leaves-four-dead