England v Ireland St Patricks Day 2012

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 5:50pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

See what you're doing is taking my point and turning it around to suit your argument

You're saying present times are a new low for Irish rugby when a mere 15 years ago things were much lower, get your argument right at least

**mod editted out

justsomebloke · 14-03-2012 5:57pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

**mod editted out

Dougieruggie you got a 3 day ban on your first day and where told to improve the quality of your posting then yet it seems you still haven't altered your posting style. This is your last warning any more crap and it's a 2 week ban

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 5:59pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'm clutching at straws? You made a claim that you thought to be true, it turned out to be absolute horse**** and you've tried to divert the argument to me saying that I'm delighted with just beating Scotland and Italy at home. Which is funny because I never said anything of the sort

I was merely shooting down you're incredibly naive perception that this period is "a new low" for Irish rugby

O.K I used the wrong phrase. What I meant was that considering our success in recent times this is a very low ebb. Happy?

walshb · 14-03-2012 6:03pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

O.K I used the wrong phrase. What I meant was that considering our success in recent times this is a very low ebb. Happy?

What success? We lost to France last year at HOME. We drew this year AWAY. We lost to Wales last year away, on a foul I may add.

2009 was our success. That one 6N tournament. In several other 6N tournaments we performed very well.

What has so changed for this now to be a "new low?"

irishbucsfan · 14-03-2012 6:08pm

walshb wrote: »

dougieruggie wrote: »

O.K I used the wrong phrase. What I meant was that considering our success in recent times this is a very low ebb. Happy?

What success? We lost to France last year at HOME. We drew this year AWAY. We lost to Wales last year away, on a foul I may add.

2009 was our success. That one 6N tournamnent.

What has so changed for this now to be a "new low?"

I don't agree at all with the new low comment but we were far more succesful under Eddie O'Sullivan. Especially in the 2004-2007 period when we won 3 triple crowns.

2010-2012 has been our least succesful period of this milennium

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 6:11pm

walshb wrote: »

What success? We lost to France last year at HOME. We drew this year AWAY. We lost to Wales last year away, on a foul I may add.

2009 was our success. That one 6N tournament. In several other 6N tournaments we performed very well.

What has so changed for this now to be a "new low?"

Because we weren't happy then with just beating Scotland and Italy at home.

Theres posters here who are happy. Thats my point.

Fishooks12 · 14-03-2012 6:12pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

Because we weren't happy then with just beating Scotland and Italy at home.

Theres posters here who are happy. Thats my point.

I was happy with the manner in which we disposed of a usually tricky Italian side and a Scottish side that had beaten us twice in 12 months before that

Bet them both with a lot to spare, I was delighted

walshb · 14-03-2012 6:16pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

Because we weren't happy then with just beating Scotland and Italy at home.

Theres posters here who are happy. Thats my point.

You sound like someone who could never be happy, and would take the good out of any win. Yes, I am happy when our boys beat anyone, Italy, Scotland, Romania et al.

Wales beat us at home and we draw in Paris, and you are moaning and criticising. BTW, I am not saying it''s success to lose. I am saying that your standards for sucess don't bear out when you analyse our results over the years.

So, simple, what will make you happy? Sounds like only a slam or a championship. Anything less and it's a new low.

Well, guess what, we had to wait 60 plus years to get a slam. Many years waiting for a triple crown.

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 6:18pm

I am moaning about people saying thats its been a good tournament when we've beaten Italy and Scotland at home.

Wales, France and England are the only good sides and we've beaten none of them (England pending). I can't understand why people could call it a good tournament thus far.

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 6:20pm

walshb wrote: »

So, simple, what will make you happy? Sounds like only a slam or a championship. Anything less and it's a new low.

Beating Italy and Scotland home or away.

Winning all home games.

Beating two of England, Wales or France and being competitive in the game that we lost.

Basically I'll be happy if we win 4/5 games and are competitive in the game we lost (providing that game wasn't lost at home or to Italy or Scotland)

walshb · 14-03-2012 6:25pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

I am moaning about people saying thats its been a good tournament when we've beaten Italy and Scotland at home.

Wales, France and England are the only good sides and we've beaten none of them (England pending). I can't understand why people could call it a good tournament thus far.

Well, me speaking, I didn't say it was a good tournament.

I guess my issue is when folks are moaning and slagging us when we lose a match, home or away, and somehow feel that only a title or slam is worthy of praise; anything less is worthy or slagging.

walshb · 14-03-2012 6:27pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

I am moaning about people saying thats its been a good tournament when we've beaten Italy and Scotland at home.

Wales, France and England are the only good sides and we've beaten none of them (England pending). I can't understand why people could call it a good tournament thus far.

Yes, Scotland are no good, and that is why they beat us in 2010 and not long after that either. It's quite insulting I would imagine to have that attitude about the Scots. "No good." Again, part of my gripe is when we beat the likes of Scotalnd, we make theses insulting excuses that "they're no good." Unreal arrogance.

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 6:29pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, Scotalnd are no good, and that is why they beat us in 2010 and not long after that either. It's quite insulting I would imagine to have that attitude about the Scots. "No good."

Could you tell me Scotland's record from the last 3 years in the 6N? They aren't good, we certainly shouldn't consider it a good tournament if we beat them. Do you think Wales or France are delighted with wins over Scotland?

walshb · 14-03-2012 6:37pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

Do you think Wales or France are delighted with wins over Scotland?

Well, I wouldn't say that they take the good out of it and moan like you.

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 6:43pm

walshb wrote: »

Well, I wouldn't say that they take the good out of it and moan like you.

I am not moaning about beating Scotland and Italy. I am moaning about people being happy with JUST beating Scotland and Italy at home.

I really do think the french and Welsh public would moan if they beat just Italy and Scotland in a tournament.

But your entitled to disagree. I've made my point, personally I think Irish rugby should be aspiring for more than wins over Italy and Scotland. You think we should be happy about wins over Scotland and Italy. Lets agree to disagree and not take over this thread.

walshb · 14-03-2012 6:49pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

I am not moaning about beating Scotland and Italy. I am moaning about people being happy with JUST beating Scotland and Italy at home.

I really do think the french and Welsh public would moan if they beat just Italy and Scotland in a tournament.

But your entitled to disagree. I've made my point, personally I think Irish rugby should be aspiring for more than wins over Italy and Scotland. You think we should be happy about wins over Scotland and Italy. Lets agree to disagree and not take over this thread.

Yes, happy about any win. I never said I was happy with a loss. This is it. You can't be happy with even a win. You wanna' take the good out of it, and makes excuses that the "opposition are no good."

And, losing a match to Wales, and a draw in France is "a new low?"

Your memory does not stretch that far if this logic is being applied.

NinjaK · 14-03-2012 6:57pm

Beating England and all is forgiven!

JRant · 14-03-2012 6:59pm

GerM wrote: »

dougieruggie wrote: »

Irish rugby has reached a new low. Are we actually happy with wins against Scotland and Italy at home, losing against Wales at home and drawing with a French team away who were beaten by England the following week?

New low? Seriously? Maybe you'd prefer a return to the 90s when we were losing regularly to Italy and Scotland.

No thank you, I remember the good aul days when if we got within an asses roar of France, England or Wales it was a 'moral victory'.
For the first time in a long, long time we are producing alot of very good players. I have issues with the selection/development policy atm and the fact we start each 6N's so slowly. However there has been a steady improvement this season. It just happened that we lost our first game and that effectively put us out of the running.
Can DK change his ways and bring some more players through? Maybe.
Will he be under pressure if we lose? Maybe.
Has the game ever been in better shape here? No.

raymann · 14-03-2012 7:06pm

beat england and its been a good six nations. some people are completely delusional here. this england side have real potential. i would be surprised if we continue to beat this side on a regular basis.

Fishooks12 · 14-03-2012 7:09pm

raymann wrote: »

beat england and its been a good six nations. some people are completely delusional here. this england side have real potential. i would be surprised if we continue to beat this side on a regular basis.

ok, apart from Farrell, who in that English side has the potential to be close to a world class player?

Fodens up there when in form but not at the minute

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 7:11pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, happy about any win. I never said I was happy with a loss. This is it. You can't be happy with even a win. You wanna' take the good out of it, and makes excuses that the "opposition are no good."

O.K I said I wouldn't reply but I am because I think your misconstruing what I am saying. I am happy about beating Italy and Scotland and they were decent wins, HOWEVER I will not be happy if we JUST beat Italy and Scotland this tournament especially considering both games were at home. I also don't think Italy and Scotland are in the same category as New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Argentina, England, France or Wales and thus I dont think a win over them is something to get especially excited about.

And, losing a match to Wales, and a draw in France is "a new low"
Your memory does not stretch that far if this logic is being applied.

I never said losing to Wales and a draw in France is a new low. I said being happy with only wins over Scotland and Italy (the two weakest teams in the tournament and at home) was a new low. And I was wrong to use the term a new low (although I think people know what I meant with the term, I didn't expect to be pulled up about games that happened 15 years ago)

Cpt_Blackbeard · 14-03-2012 7:11pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

I am not moaning about beating Scotland and Italy. I am moaning about people being happy with JUST beating Scotland and Italy at home.

I really do think the french and Welsh public would moan if they beat just Italy and Scotland in a tournament.

But your entitled to disagree. I've made my point, personally I think Irish rugby should be aspiring for more than wins over Italy and Scotland. You think we should be happy about wins over Scotland and Italy. Lets agree to disagree and not take over this thread.

Of course we should aspire to more than 2 wins in any given championship, but even if we lose to England away, this championship won't be a failure. Wales are a better team than us and have better players in most positions around the field. France are consistently our bogey team and a draw away in Paris is a good result. That's before you factor in the poor officiating that could have cost us both games.

The_Kew_Tour · 14-03-2012 7:11pm

If 1 Grand Slam in Ireland Golden Generation of 10-12 years is seen as a success to some, then I sure never want to see the bad times.

Imo and I am going to cause a little bit of a storm maybe with some, but Ireland are no nearer to winning a World Cup now then they were 20 years ago.

Ireland made balls of it against Scotland in 2001. In 2005 we had great chance and should have won the Slam, and yet ****ed it up against France when they really should have been beaten, and rolled over against Wales.

Rolled over far too easy against France in 2006 and 2007 we could not hang onto a lead in last minute at Croker. 2008 was just write off from the start.

Then GS year which was great and all, but when people talk about us getting luck we got our fair share of it that season(although deserved).

Then 2010 we lose to Scotland and crushed by France and last year one good performance against England hides the cracks of a disappointing campaign.

This is not forgetting 2 horrendous World Cups and a huge disappointment in getting beat in QF last year, and not to mention been stuffed by 40-50 points by NZ from time to time a team we have never beaten in something like 27 attempts(can you imagine any other team in any other sport with record like that would be acceptable).

Now all I highlighted was the negatives, but for a team that gets such high praise, i just don't think it's something they deserve.

Sick to death of hearing people say they gave it there all, I am sure they do, just like im sure Carlow GAA team gives it their all too, but there still crap.(Ireland better then that, but get my drift)

Tox56 · 14-03-2012 7:12pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Of course we should aspire to more than 2 wins in any given championship, but even if we lose to England away, this championship won't be a failure. Wales are a better team than us and have better players in most positions around the field. France are consistently our bogey team and a draw away in Paris is a good result. That's before you factor in the poor officiating that could have cost us both games.

I disagree with that, and we were at home.

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 7:13pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Of course we should aspire to more than 2 wins in any given championship, but even if we lose to England away, this championship won't be a failure. Wales are a better team than us and have better players in most positions around the field. France are consistently our bogey team and a draw away in Paris is a good result. That's before you factor in the poor officiating that could have cost us both games.

sorry but 2/5 wins is a failure.

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 7:14pm

Actually does anyone know Kidney's win to lose ratio since hes taken over? Just curious.

walshb · 14-03-2012 7:24pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If 1 Grand Slam in Ireland Golden Generation of 10-12 years is seen as a success to some, then I sure never want to see the bad times.

Imo and I am going to cause a little bit of a storm maybe with some, but Ireland are no nearer to winning a World Cup now then they were 20 years ago.

Ireland made balls of it against Scotland in 2001. In 2005 we had great chance and should have won the Slam, and yet ****ed it up against France when they really should have been beaten, and rolled over against Wales.

Rolled over far too easy against France in 2006 and 2007 we could not hang onto a lead in last minute at Croker. 2008 was just write off from the start.

Then GS year which was great and all, but when people talk about us getting luck we got our fair share of it that season(although deserved).

Then 2010 we lose to Scotland and crushed by France and last year one good performance against England hides the cracks of a disappointing campaign.

This is not forgetting 2 horrendous World Cups and a huge disappointment in getting beat in QF last year, and not to mention been stuffed by 40-50 points by NZ from time to time a team we have never beaten in something like 27 attempts(can you imagine any other team in any other sport with record like that would be acceptable).

Now all I highlighted was the negatives, but for a team that gets such high praise, i just don't think it's something they deserve.

Sick to death of hearing people say they gave it there all, I am sure they do, just like im sure Carlow GAA team gives it their all too, but there still crap.(Ireland better then that, but get my drift)

Usually the praise is followed with "the opposition was no good." Where is this high praise? And, what would constitue high praise in your eyes? Winning a WC? Winning a GS every year?

Carlow may well be crap at GAA, but Ireland are far from crap at rugby. Silly silly analogy.

MungBean · 14-03-2012 7:30pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

ok, apart from Farrell, who in that English side has the potential to be close to a world class player?

Fodens up there when in form but not at the minute

Even though they dont have the players in every position they are pretty cohesive as a side for some reason. They are like the opposite of Ireland. Where we have the players to be beating Wales and France we just cant, England look like a side that shouldnt be even close to beating them yet they pull out the performances. They are a decent team even though they dont look it on paper.

walshb · 14-03-2012 7:33pm

This is not the best English side there has been, but still a very decent side, and at home, a tougher ask than would be at Aviva. A win at twickenham will be magnificent. Any win over England at anything is magnificent in my eyes. Enjoy these wins, savour them, because usually we're on the losing end.
That is wht I am very proud of our record vs. England since 2000.

8-4 in wins. That is a superb record to have against England. Superb.

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 7:47pm

Since Kidney won the Grandslam Ireland have played 32 games.

We have won 16 of those 32 games. 8 of those wins include wins against Russia, America, Italy (twice), Fiji, Samoa and Scotland (twice).

Is that good enough?

Fishooks12 · 14-03-2012 7:50pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

Since Kidney won the Grandslam Ireland have played 32 games.

We have won 16 of those 32 games. 8 of those wins include wins against Russia, America, Italy (twice), Fiji, Samoa and Scotland (twice).

Is that good enough?

They also include, South Africa, England, France and Australia

Kindeys record isn't great but why highlight just the victories over the minnows? Not very impartial is it

Tox56 · 14-03-2012 7:51pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

They also include, South Africa, England, France and Australia

Kindeys record isn't great but why highlight just the victories over the minnows? Not very impartial is it

Those wins show us the level this team can play at, but don't, more often than not.

Fishooks12 · 14-03-2012 7:52pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Those wins show us the level this team can play at, but don't, more often than not.

I agree !

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 7:54pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

They also include, South Africa, England, France and Australia

Kindeys record isn't great but why highlight just the victories over the minnows? Not very impartial is it

I am saying that in 24 games against top opposition we've won 8 times.

We haven't beaten France since the GS. The 8 wins are over Wales, England (twice), South Africa, Australia, Argentina. Not sure who the 8th team is but its not France. Of those 8 wins, only one, against England could be considered an away game.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 14-03-2012 7:55pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

Actually does anyone know Kidney's win to lose ratio since hes taken over? Just curious.

09 6Ns GS 5/0/0
09 ST NA 2/0/0
08/09 total 7/0/0

09 AI 2/1/0
10 6N 3/0/2
10 ST 0/0/2
09/10 total 5/1/4

10 AI 2/0/2
11 6N 3/0/2
10/11 total 5/0/4

11 WCWU 0/0/4
11 WC 4/0/1
12 6N 2/1/1
11/12 total 6/1/6

Total record 23/2/14

Counted are all full cap tests, many like to strip out minnows USA(2), Russia(1), Canada(1), Italy(5), Fiji(1) and Samoa(1) to get a stick to beat Kidney with. If done that would leave Kidney with a record 12/2/14.

dougieruggie · 14-03-2012 8:00pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

09 6Ns GS 5/0/0
09 ST NA 2/0/0
08/09 total 7/0/0

09 AI 2/1/0
10 6N 4/0/1
10 ST 0/0/2
09/10 total 6/1/3

10 AI 2/0/2
11 6N 3/0/2
10/11 total 5/0/2

11 WCWU 0/0/4
11 WC 4/0/1
12 6N 2/1/1
11/12 total 6/1/6

Total record 24/2/11

Counted are all full cap tests, many like to strip out minnows USA(2), Russia(1), Canada(1), Italy(5), Fiji(1) and Samoa(1) to get a stick to beat Kidney with. If done that would leave Kidney with a record 13/2/11.

Very poor record considering how many of those games were against minnows and thats even including the wonder year of 2009!

irishbucsfan · 14-03-2012 8:03pm

We didn't win 4 games in the 2010 6 nations did we...?

MungBean · 14-03-2012 8:03pm

Omitted 2 losses from the 10/11 season there too so the loss count stands at 13 not 11.

darragh_haven · 14-03-2012 8:12pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

09 6Ns GS 5/0/0
09 ST NA 2/0/0
08/09 total 7/0/0

09 AI 2/1/0
10 6N 4/0/1
10 ST 0/0/2
09/10 total 6/1/3

10 AI 2/0/2
11 6N 3/0/2
10/11 total 5/0/2

11 WCWU 0/0/4
11 WC 4/0/1
12 6N 2/1/1
11/12 total 6/1/6

Total record 24/2/11

Counted are all full cap tests, many like to strip out minnows USA(2), Russia(1), Canada(1), Italy(5), Fiji(1) and Samoa(1) to get a stick to beat Kidney with. If done that would leave Kidney with a record 13/2/11.

Very poor record considering how many of those games were against minnows and thats even including the wonder year of 2009!

Please stop moaning. I'd say nothing could be right for ya

The_Kew_Tour · 14-03-2012 8:16pm

walshb wrote: »

Usually the praise is followed with "the opposition was no good." Where is this high praise? And, what would constitue high praise in your eyes? Winning a WC? Winning a GS every year?

Carlow may well be crap at GAA, but Ireland are far from crap at rugby. Silly silly analogy.

Not every year but they should have won Championship at least 4 times over that period.

Fair enough teams who are in contention will make few cock ups from time to time no problem with that, the problem is its happened far too often.

This notion that we are small country is biggest load of horse crap. NZ and Wales combined would be around same population as ours.

If you want to be happy with under achieving year in year out that's fair enough.

But I would like more from a team that has been considered "World Class" in the past.

11 points up in Paris and they could not finish the job off shows a lot of mental weakness to me. Its not good enough for team that seems be seen as Great.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 14-03-2012 8:47pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We didn't win 4 games in the 2010 6 nations did we...?

MungBean wrote: »

Omitted 2 losses from the 10/11 season there too so the loss count stands at 13 not 11.

Thanks fixed now

Podge_irl · 14-03-2012 8:48pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We didn't win 4 games in the 2010 6 nations did we...?

No, we lost to Scotland and France.

teednab-el · 14-03-2012 11:40pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If 1 Grand Slam in Ireland Golden Generation of 10-12 years is seen as a success to some, then I sure never want to see the bad times.

Imo and I am going to cause a little bit of a storm maybe with some, but Ireland are no nearer to winning a World Cup now then they were 20 years ago.

Ireland made balls of it against Scotland in 2001. In 2005 we had great chance and should have won the Slam, and yet ****ed it up against France when they really should have been beaten, and rolled over against Wales.

Rolled over far too easy against France in 2006 and 2007 we could not hang onto a lead in last minute at Croker. 2008 was just write off from the start.

Then GS year which was great and all, but when people talk about us getting luck we got our fair share of it that season(although deserved).

Then 2010 we lose to Scotland and crushed by France and last year one good performance against England hides the cracks of a disappointing campaign.

This is not forgetting 2 horrendous World Cups and a huge disappointment in getting beat in QF last year, and not to mention been stuffed by 40-50 points by NZ from time to time a team we have never beaten in something like 27 attempts(can you imagine any other team in any other sport with record like that would be acceptable).

Now all I highlighted was the negatives, but for a team that gets such high praise, i just don't think it's something they deserve.

Sick to death of hearing people say they gave it there all, I am sure they do, just like im sure Carlow GAA team gives it their all too, but there still crap.(Ireland better then that, but get my drift)

Tottally agree with all of this. Ireland don't have the balls or arrogance to win grand slams and we were damn lucky to win in 2009. Thank you Steven Jones. Look back through the years. We get close in 2001 and Scotland hammer us. In 2003 we played great rugby and a stupid Martin Johnson incident fcuked up our game and we get a hiding at HOME. In 2004 we had grand slam chance and blew it against France, same with 2006. Should have won in 2007 and can't hang on to a lead against FRANCE. 2009 almost slipped within our grasp and 2010 we loose to Scotland at home for triple crown. We are pathetic and I'm sick of our lack of achievement. If Wales England or France had those opportunities they would have taken most of them. We need good NZ coaches managing our setups, otherwise it will be more of the same from Ireland. Ireland a country with great players and little success. It's reality and fact.

Clegg · 15-03-2012 12:10am

TBH the whole idea of a "Golden Generation" of Irish rugby is a load of nonsense. We have had a lot of good players develop over the last 10-15 years but BOD and POC are the only players from Ireland that have truly been world class over the majority of their careers.

I'm not knocking this generation of players. They've done very well and have won Heineken Cups as well as becoming competitive on the International stage. But calling it a Golden Generation is disengenuous. It's a phrase coined by over zealous journalists to describe the crop of talented players that emerged after the terrible 1990's.

IMO the "Golden Genaration" were players like Hickie, Dempsey, Murphy, BOD, Stringer, Horgan, POC, etc. The Irish team right now isn't part of the so-called GG.

Fishooks12 · 15-03-2012 12:13am

Clegg wrote: »

TBH the whole idea of a "Golden Generation" of Irish rugby is a load of nonsense. We have had a lot of good players develop over the last 10-15 years but BOD and POC are the only players from Ireland that have truly been world class over the majority of their careers.

I'm not knocking this generation of players. They've done very well and have won Heineken Cups as well as becoming competitive on the International stage. But calling it a Golden Generation is disengenuous. It's a phrase coined by over zealous journalists to describe the crop of talented players that emerged after the terrible 1990's.

In 8 years I reckon we'll be the dominant force in NH rugby, such is the talent we have coming through at underage level

teednab-el · 15-03-2012 12:15am

Clegg wrote: »

TBH the whole idea of a "Golden Generation" of Irish rugby is a load of nonsense. We have had a lot of good players develop over the last 10-15 years but BOD and POC are the only players from Ireland that have truly been world class over the majority of their careers.

I'm not knocking this generation of players. They've done very well and have won Heineken Cups as well as becoming competitive on the International stage. But calling it a Golden Generation is disengenuous. It's a phrase coined by over zealous journalists to describe the crop of talented players that emerged after the terrible 1990's.

As great as POC is for Ireland he was never in BOD's league for talent.

teednab-el · 15-03-2012 12:20am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

TBH the whole idea of a "Golden Generation" of Irish rugby is a load of nonsense. We have had a lot of good players develop over the last 10-15 years but BOD and POC are the only players from Ireland that have truly been world class over the majority of their careers.

I'm not knocking this generation of players. They've done very well and have won Heineken Cups as well as becoming competitive on the International stage. But calling it a Golden Generation is disengenuous. It's a phrase coined by over zealous journalists to describe the crop of talented players that emerged after the terrible 1990's.

In 8 years I reckon we'll be the dominant force in NH rugby, such is the talent we have coming through at underage level

That translates to nothing at the highest level of rugby. Most of those players won't make the transistion or be good enough. It's a big step up.

Fishooks12 · 15-03-2012 12:23am

teednab-el wrote: »

That translates to nothing at the highest level of rugby. Most of those players won't make the transistion or be good enough. It's a big step up.

Jesus you really are the most negative poster here, how do you know who'll make it and who won't? Name some of the players you think won't make it and I'll name you ten who will and why

Clegg · 15-03-2012 12:24am

teednab-el wrote: »

As great as POC is for Ireland he was never in BOD's league for talent.

BOD is undoubtedly the best player Ireland has had in the professional era. I'd still consider POC as being World Class when at his peak.

Although he still wasn't the best lock in the world even when at his best. Matfield and Thorn are the 2 outstanding locks of this generation imo.

teednab-el · 15-03-2012 12:34am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

teednab-el wrote: »

That translates to nothing at the highest level of rugby. Most of those players won't make the transistion or be good enough. It's a big step up.

Jesus you really are the most negative poster here, how do you know who'll make it and who won't?

Well our underachievements of the past is a good enough reason as why I am negative about Irish rugby and you believe that's going to change sometime soon?

England v Ireland St Patricks Day 2012

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