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England v Ireland St Patricks Day 2012

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    #242
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    Jesus I cant believe people are saying this is a GOOD 6 nations!

    We beat Italy and Scotland. We drew with France away but that result has been put wholly in context by England beating them away. This French team is a shadow of what they were. We were beaten by Wales AT HOME.

    Irish rugby has reached a new low. Are we actually happy with wins against Scotland and Italy at home, losing against Wales at home and drawing with a French team away who were beaten by England the following week?


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    #243
    andrewdcs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭andrewdcs


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    Jesus I cant believe people are saying this is a GOOD 6 nations!

    We beat Italy and Scotland. We drew with France away but that result has been put wholly in context by England beating them away. This French team is a shadow of what they were. We were beaten by Wales AT HOME.

    Irish rugby has reached a new low. Are we actually happy with wins against Scotland and Italy at home, losing against Wales at home and drawing with a French team away who were beaten by England the following week?

    to risk ire: there are 4 teams very much in the mix this year as shown by results.
    Wales beat England as well, They could well do the slam, in that context, if IF IF we beat England, its a decent enough season "coulda woulda shoulda" but we'd be a worthy second to a superb Wales slam.

    All the games so far between those 4 teams have been very very entertaining, coin toss to decide them.

    Week to week, teams inch it up or down. France are not a shadow, no more than England were losing to Wales at home, no more than we are....
    4 strong teams in close contention, with 2 dangerous opponents perhaps a little bit back, but lethal on home turf. Ce'st la 6 nations.:D


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    #244
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    Irish rugby has reached a new low. Are we actually happy with wins against Scotland and Italy at home, losing against Wales at home and drawing with a French team away who were beaten by England the following week?

    New low? Seriously? Maybe you'd prefer a return to the 90s when we were losing regularly to Italy and Scotland.


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    #245
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    GerM wrote: »
    New low? Seriously? Maybe you'd prefer a return to the 90s when we were losing regularly to Italy and Scotland.

    Dont think we've ever lost to Italy mate.


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    #246
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    Dont think we've ever lost to Italy mate.

    Don't think you're older than 18 so


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    #247
    andrewdcs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭andrewdcs


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    Don't think you're older than 18 so

    Oh to be young! and know only sweet sweet success! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #248
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    Dont think we've ever lost to Italy mate.

    Lost three in a row including one at home with 5 test Lions in our starting pack. Kinda puts the "new low" in perspective


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    #249
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    Don't think you're older than 18 so

    I'm older than that, I just don't remember losing to Italy. Anyway, if you want to celebrate a home win over Italy because we lost to them in the 90s then go ahead. Kidney is the messiah, he beat Scotland and Italy at home :eek:


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    #250
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,727 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    Jesus I cant believe people are saying this is a GOOD 6 nations!

    We beat Italy and Scotland. We drew with France away but that result has been put wholly in context by England beating them away. This French team is a shadow of what they were. We were beaten by Wales AT HOME.

    Irish rugby has reached a new low. Are we actually happy with wins against Scotland and Italy at home, losing against Wales at home and drawing with a French team away who were beaten by England the following week?

    Did you back or bet on Ireland to beat France before the kick off? Or, are you basing this on the half time result? 4 months ago France almost won the WC. Now, drawing with them in France is somehow a new low. In the past how many away games to France have we either won or drawn? One win in 7 tries away to France in 6N history. We get a draw, and this become a new low?

    We lost to Wales by a dubious penalty. A team that really should have got to the WC final, and could have possibly won it. England also lost to them at home.

    This logic is strange: If it's a new low losing to Wales at home and drawing to France away, then I guess only a slam or championship every year will save us? Because "Italy don't count," nor do Scotland, even though the Scots have beaten us many many times over the years, 5N tournamnets. Also, beat us a couple of times in matches in the past few years.

    Now, of all the 6 teams, none have slammed all or won all the titles.

    Really, these expectations for success put on the team by many here seem off the mark.

    Nobody is saying we should celebrate a loss, or celebrate finishing second, but let's get real, we are NOT the best team in the 6N, so why is a loss here and there so dissatisfying and so open to criticism?

    Who is the best team? It's open to debate. It's a very close call among the four I feel.


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    #251
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    I'm older than that, I just don't remember losing to Italy. Anyway, if you want to celebrate a home win over Italy because we lost to them in the 90s then go ahead. Kidney is the messiah, he beat Scotland and Italy at home :eek:

    See what you're doing is taking my point and turning it around to suit your argument

    You're saying present times are a new low for Irish rugby when a mere 15 years ago things were much lower, get your argument right at least


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    #252
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    See what you're doing is taking my point and turning it around to suit your argument

    You're saying present times are a new low for Irish rugby when a mere 15 years ago things were much lower, get your argument right at least

    **mod editted out


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    #253
    justsomebloke
    Registered Users Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    **mod editted out

    Dougieruggie you got a 3 day ban on your first day and where told to improve the quality of your posting then yet it seems you still haven't altered your posting style. This is your last warning any more crap and it's a 2 week ban


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    #254
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    I'm clutching at straws? You made a claim that you thought to be true, it turned out to be absolute horse**** and you've tried to divert the argument to me saying that I'm delighted with just beating Scotland and Italy at home. Which is funny because I never said anything of the sort :confused:

    I was merely shooting down you're incredibly naive perception that this period is "a new low" for Irish rugby

    O.K I used the wrong phrase. What I meant was that considering our success in recent times this is a very low ebb. Happy?


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    #255
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,727 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    O.K I used the wrong phrase. What I meant was that considering our success in recent times this is a very low ebb. Happy?

    What success? We lost to France last year at HOME. We drew this year AWAY. We lost to Wales last year away, on a foul I may add.

    2009 was our success. That one 6N tournament. In several other 6N tournaments we performed very well.

    What has so changed for this now to be a "new low?"


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    #256
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    walshb wrote: »
    dougieruggie wrote: »
    O.K I used the wrong phrase. What I meant was that considering our success in recent times this is a very low ebb. Happy?

    What success? We lost to France last year at HOME. We drew this year AWAY. We lost to Wales last year away, on a foul I may add.

    2009 was our success. That one 6N tournamnent.

    What has so changed for this now to be a "new low?"
    I don't agree at all with the new low comment but we were far more succesful under Eddie O'Sullivan. Especially in the 2004-2007 period when we won 3 triple crowns.

    2010-2012 has been our least succesful period of this milennium


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    #257
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    walshb wrote: »
    What success? We lost to France last year at HOME. We drew this year AWAY. We lost to Wales last year away, on a foul I may add.

    2009 was our success. That one 6N tournament. In several other 6N tournaments we performed very well.

    What has so changed for this now to be a "new low?"

    Because we weren't happy then with just beating Scotland and Italy at home.

    Theres posters here who are happy. Thats my point.


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    #258
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    Because we weren't happy then with just beating Scotland and Italy at home.

    Theres posters here who are happy. Thats my point.


    I was happy with the manner in which we disposed of a usually tricky Italian side and a Scottish side that had beaten us twice in 12 months before that

    Bet them both with a lot to spare, I was delighted


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    #259
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,727 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    Because we weren't happy then with just beating Scotland and Italy at home.

    Theres posters here who are happy. Thats my point.

    You sound like someone who could never be happy, and would take the good out of any win. Yes, I am happy when our boys beat anyone, Italy, Scotland, Romania et al.

    Wales beat us at home and we draw in Paris, and you are moaning and criticising. BTW, I am not saying it''s success to lose. I am saying that your standards for sucess don't bear out when you analyse our results over the years.

    So, simple, what will make you happy? Sounds like only a slam or a championship. Anything less and it's a new low.:confused:

    Well, guess what, we had to wait 60 plus years to get a slam. Many years waiting for a triple crown.


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    #260
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    I am moaning about people saying thats its been a good tournament when we've beaten Italy and Scotland at home.

    Wales, France and England are the only good sides and we've beaten none of them (England pending). I can't understand why people could call it a good tournament thus far.


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    #261
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    walshb wrote: »
    So, simple, what will make you happy? Sounds like only a slam or a championship. Anything less and it's a new low.:confused:

    Beating Italy and Scotland home or away.

    Winning all home games.

    Beating two of England, Wales or France and being competitive in the game that we lost.

    Basically I'll be happy if we win 4/5 games and are competitive in the game we lost (providing that game wasn't lost at home or to Italy or Scotland)


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    #262
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,727 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    I am moaning about people saying thats its been a good tournament when we've beaten Italy and Scotland at home.

    Wales, France and England are the only good sides and we've beaten none of them (England pending). I can't understand why people could call it a good tournament thus far.

    Well, me speaking, I didn't say it was a good tournament.

    I guess my issue is when folks are moaning and slagging us when we lose a match, home or away, and somehow feel that only a title or slam is worthy of praise; anything less is worthy or slagging.


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    #263
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,727 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    I am moaning about people saying thats its been a good tournament when we've beaten Italy and Scotland at home.

    Wales, France and England are the only good sides and we've beaten none of them (England pending). I can't understand why people could call it a good tournament thus far.

    Yes, Scotland are no good, and that is why they beat us in 2010 and not long after that either. It's quite insulting I would imagine to have that attitude about the Scots. "No good." Again, part of my gripe is when we beat the likes of Scotalnd, we make theses insulting excuses that "they're no good." Unreal arrogance.


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    #264
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, Scotalnd are no good, and that is why they beat us in 2010 and not long after that either. It's quite insulting I would imagine to have that attitude about the Scots. "No good."

    Could you tell me Scotland's record from the last 3 years in the 6N? They aren't good, we certainly shouldn't consider it a good tournament if we beat them. Do you think Wales or France are delighted with wins over Scotland?


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    #265
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,727 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    Do you think Wales or France are delighted with wins over Scotland?

    Well, I wouldn't say that they take the good out of it and moan like you.


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    #266
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    walshb wrote: »
    Well, I wouldn't say that they take the good out of it and moan like you.

    I am not moaning about beating Scotland and Italy. I am moaning about people being happy with JUST beating Scotland and Italy at home.

    I really do think the french and Welsh public would moan if they beat just Italy and Scotland in a tournament.

    But your entitled to disagree. I've made my point, personally I think Irish rugby should be aspiring for more than wins over Italy and Scotland. You think we should be happy about wins over Scotland and Italy. Lets agree to disagree and not take over this thread.


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    #267
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,727 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dougieruggie wrote: »
    I am not moaning about beating Scotland and Italy. I am moaning about people being happy with JUST beating Scotland and Italy at home.

    I really do think the french and Welsh public would moan if they beat just Italy and Scotland in a tournament.

    But your entitled to disagree. I've made my point, personally I think Irish rugby should be aspiring for more than wins over Italy and Scotland. You think we should be happy about wins over Scotland and Italy. Lets agree to disagree and not take over this thread.


    Yes, happy about any win. I never said I was happy with a loss. This is it. You can't be happy with even a win. You wanna' take the good out of it, and makes excuses that the "opposition are no good."

    And, losing a match to Wales, and a draw in France is "a new low?"

    Your memory does not stretch that far if this logic is being applied.


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    #268
    NinjaK
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 963 ✭✭✭NinjaK


    Beating England and all is forgiven!


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    #269
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,831 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    GerM wrote: »
    dougieruggie wrote: »
    Irish rugby has reached a new low. Are we actually happy with wins against Scotland and Italy at home, losing against Wales at home and drawing with a French team away who were beaten by England the following week?

    New low? Seriously? Maybe you'd prefer a return to the 90s when we were losing regularly to Italy and Scotland.

    No thank you, I remember the good aul days when if we got within an asses roar of France, England or Wales it was a 'moral victory'.
    For the first time in a long, long time we are producing alot of very good players. I have issues with the selection/development policy atm and the fact we start each 6N's so slowly. However there has been a steady improvement this season. It just happened that we lost our first game and that effectively put us out of the running.
    Can DK change his ways and bring some more players through? Maybe.
    Will he be under pressure if we lose? Maybe.
    Has the game ever been in better shape here? No.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #270
    raymann
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭raymann


    beat england and its been a good six nations. some people are completely delusional here. this england side have real potential. i would be surprised if we continue to beat this side on a regular basis.


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    #271
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    raymann wrote: »
    beat england and its been a good six nations. some people are completely delusional here. this england side have real potential. i would be surprised if we continue to beat this side on a regular basis.

    ok, apart from Farrell, who in that English side has the potential to be close to a world class player?

    Fodens up there when in form but not at the minute


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