England v Ireland St Patricks Day 2012

snow mad · 12-03-2012 4:46pm

SOB has been in hospital all last week infection has cleared up is no longer taking drugs for it. Has lost some weight but is expected to be fit.

think the speculation that O'Mahony will start is because he was at the press conference but i would put that down to the scotland game being his first start

totallegend · 12-03-2012 5:23pm

snow mad wrote: »

SOB has been in hospital all last week infection has cleared up is no longer taking drugs for it. Has lost some weight but is expected to be fit.

Well, he's back training anyway but D Ryan looking less happy; pictures here: http://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/1203133/
Good to see Luke Fitzgerald back in the camp too.

Check out Brett Wilkinson playing gaelic football, the man is a natural.

Fishooks12 · 12-03-2012 5:28pm

Good to see EOM in with the squad

EDIT: forgot he made the 30 man extended squad

thomond2006 · 13-03-2012 1:00am

I reckon the result of this will be the difference between Lancaster getting the England job or not. 4 wins out of 5 would result in a huge media clamour for Lancaster to get the permanent role.

phog · 13-03-2012 8:15am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I reckon the result of this will be the difference between Lancaster getting the England job or not. 4 wins out of 5 would result in a huge media clamour for Lancaster to get the permanent role.

Does Lancaster want the job without having Andy Farrell? Sarries wont release Farrell for any longer than the 6Ns.

JustinDee · 13-03-2012 9:13am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I reckon the result of this will be the difference between Lancaster getting the England job or not. 4 wins out of 5 would result in a huge media clamour for Lancaster to get the permanent role.

The media won't affect the decision though. He's obviously a good coach, given the attitude and freshness about the squad, but don't be surprised if they went with someone else for long term.

13-03-2012 9:44am

Will we play the high intensity game for 80mins that England can't deal with, and that we all know we're capable of? Requiring a Reddan/Sexton and an explosive pack (McCarthy/Tuohy instead of DOC), or will we see us play rugby for 55 and then "try to hang on" with a nonsensical inclusion of ROG?

irishbucsfan · 13-03-2012 9:54am

JustinDee wrote: »

thomond2006 wrote: »

I reckon the result of this will be the difference between Lancaster getting the England job or not. 4 wins out of 5 would result in a huge media clamour for Lancaster to get the permanent role.

The media won't affect the decision though. He's obviously a good coach, given the attitude and freshness about the squad, but don't be surprised if they went with someone else for long term.

The media will certainly affect the decision. They're far too powerful over here. The board know that having the media on side is important and at the moment Lancaster has that. Johnson was turfed out when the media turned on him.

I don't think he'd stand a chance if he didn't tbh, but the positive reception he has received has definitely done more for his chances than his credentials ever could have.

I think it'll come down to financials though.

JustinDee · 13-03-2012 10:12am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The media will certainly affect the decision. They're far too powerful over here. The board know that having the media on side is important and at the moment Lancaster has that. Johnson was turfed out when the media turned on him

Player behaviour on tour and resulting team performances (during RWC) and the appointment of a coach are two entirely different matters. The only instance of media was in reporting on it and receiving a leaked document from an involved party with outside interest.

Media opinion won't matter a jot on who gets appointed.

irishbucsfan · 13-03-2012 10:39am

JustinDee wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The media will certainly affect the decision. They're far too powerful over here. The board know that having the media on side is important and at the moment Lancaster has that. Johnson was turfed out when the media turned on him

Player behaviour on tour and resulting team performances (during RWC) and the appointment of a coach are two entirely different matters. The only instance of media was in reporting on it and receiving a leaked document from an involved party with outside interest.

Media opinion won't matter a jot on who gets appointed.

The media aren't the kingmakers but public opinion matters a hell of a lot more at HQ than it does at Lansdowne road. And Lancaster will benefit from that.

JustinDee · 13-03-2012 10:45am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The media aren't the kingmakers but public opinion matters a hell of a lot more at HQ than it does at Lansdowne road. And Lancaster will benefit from that.

I don't see how you're getting this idea. The only people who make out that the media are instructive in how decisions are made are . . . the media.

JRant · 13-03-2012 10:49am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I reckon the result of this will be the difference between Lancaster getting the England job or not. 4 wins out of 5 would result in a huge media clamour for Lancaster to get the permanent role.

It's funny when you think that Lancaster might not get the job despite 4 wins outta 5 but DK will get to keep his with only 2 wins. Funny aul game really

totallegend · 13-03-2012 11:45am

JRant wrote: »

It's funny when you think that Lancaster might not get the job despite 4 wins outta 5 but DK will get to keep his with only 2 wins. Funny aul game really

The Lancaster thing will be interesting alright; the players seem very keen to retain him, but maybe the RFU will be wary of listening to 'player power' after their experience of the last few years.

You might also have to factor in the possibility that the English team is reacting to having a new coach, rather than Lancaster specifically. They haven't shown anything special in terms of tactics but just seem to be more positive in their approach. It might be Lancaster, it might just be dead cat bounce.

thomond2006 · 13-03-2012 11:58am

JustinDee wrote: »

The media won't affect the decision though. He's obviously a good coach, given the attitude and freshness about the squad, but don't be surprised if they went with someone else for long term.

The media more or less picked Martin Johnson 4 years ago.

irishbucsfan · 13-03-2012 12:02pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

JustinDee wrote: »

The media won't affect the decision though. He's obviously a good coach, given the attitude and freshness about the squad, but don't be surprised if they went with someone else for long term.

The media more or less picked Martin Johnson 4 years ago.

Also the head of the recruitment committee happens to be one of the more media obsessed people in English rugby.

JustinDee · 13-03-2012 12:25pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

The media more or less picked Martin Johnson 4 years ago.

Sorry Alan but the media, print or TV or whatever, never got to do such a thing.
I can remember the clippings from the likes of Ollie Brown, Mick Cleary, Simon Halliday, Mark Souster and Stuart Barnes, Jerry Guscott thought when Martin Johnson, completely inexperienced in anything of a kind, was appointed Manager of the England team.

There is a difference between the bookies' or media favourite for a role and who is actually approached by any appointments manager or committee.

JRant · 13-03-2012 1:05pm

totallegend wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

It's funny when you think that Lancaster might not get the job despite 4 wins outta 5 but DK will get to keep his with only 2 wins. Funny aul game really

The Lancaster thing will be interesting alright; the players seem very keen to retain him, but maybe the RFU will be wary of listening to 'player power' after their experience of the last few years.

You might also have to factor in the possibility that the English team is reacting to having a new coach, rather than Lancaster specifically. They haven't shown anything special in terms of tactics but just seem to be more positive in their approach. It might be Lancaster, it might just be dead cat bounce.

The new coach factor is definitely important, remember '09. There's a few good english coaches around that may go forward for the job as well. It seems like a similar situation to the Brain Ashton one, he got them to a WC final and was surplus to requirements straight after it.

.ak · 13-03-2012 2:27pm

Same team as Scotland, except SOB is back in at 7 and POM back onto the bench.

thomond2006 · 13-03-2012 2:29pm

IRELAND Team & Replacements (v England, 2012 RBS 6 Nations Championship, Twickenham, Saturday, March 17, kick-off 5pm):

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) (capt)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16- Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

Same team bar SOB back fit and starting with POM back on the bench.

Fireball07 · 13-03-2012 2:30pm

.ak wrote: »

Same team as Scotland, except SOB is back in at 7 and POM back onto the bench.

Leinster bias!

prospect · 13-03-2012 2:33pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

Leinster bias!

Well, we want to win don't we.

Fireball07 · 13-03-2012 2:38pm

prospect wrote: »

Well, we want to win don't we.

Not unless ROG, Zebo, POM and Danny Barnes are playing

Nah, it's a good team. Still disappointed to see DOC and D'Arcy there, the players are going to be wrecked going back to their clubs aswell, playing 4 international games in a row.

irishbucsfan · 13-03-2012 2:43pm

As I said, the idea Declan Kidney would rotate by choice was madness.

Not one single unforced change since the world cup.

13-03-2012 2:44pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

As I said, the idea Declan Kidney would rotate by choice was madness.

Not one single unforced change since the world cup.

bar the warm ups, I doubt there's been an unforced change since he's been our head coach

.ak · 13-03-2012 2:45pm

Yeah, although I don't think Schmidt is a fan of playing internationals straight back in unless he has to. A few crucial players for the Ospreys game, and then they'll all be killing each other in Thomond the following week...

walshb · 13-03-2012 2:49pm

Home Advantage is always so important when two teams are fairly close in talent. This applies here. And it is why I selected Ireland to beat England at the Aviva last year when so many were selecting England. This will be a very tough and closely fought game. Nobody in the tournamnet beats us handily. The Welsh were very lucky to get by us when one looks at the score and how they got that last ditch penalty. I think England are the slight favorites, and will probably nick it by a score, or two at most. I would be 51 percent confident of this pick.

thomond2006 · 13-03-2012 2:51pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not one single unforced change since the world cup.

There will be war if we don't win this game.

Come to think of it Kidney has brought through very few players from scratch during his tenure that weren't injury enforced.
Edit: Emmet got there first!

The only players that come to mind that came from nowhere (in a sense) during Kidney's tenure is Keith Earls and Jonny Sexton. And it took Kidney far too long to back Sexton as the undisputed number 1.

.ak · 13-03-2012 2:59pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

There will be war if we don't win this game.

Come to think of it Kidney has brought through very few players from scratch during his tenure that weren't injury enforced.
Edit: Emmet got there first!

The only players that come to mind that came from nowhere (in a sense) during Kidney's tenure is Keith Earls and Jonny Sexton. And it took Kidney far too long to back Sexton as the undisputed number 1.

Will there be war though? By who? If we lose the game and are injury rife, what will be done about it? The branches can't complain, the IRFU don't listen to the public, and they've got Yes-Men coaching the National setup... Nothing will be done about it imo. Kidney will reel of some 'Well we put our best 15 on the pitch available to us and that's life sometimes you get thrown lemons and you make lemon-meringue y'know..'

irishbucsfan · 13-03-2012 3:02pm

Ah yknow we felt we left our all on the field but yknow sometimes it takes a little more to go your way.

Quint2010 · 13-03-2012 3:02pm

This is a pivotal game in the Kidney tenure. Lose and we will have regressed. Win and the tournament can be seen as a qualified success

England v Ireland St Patricks Day 2012

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