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England v Ireland St Patricks Day 2012

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12467…49

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    #92
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    It is actually mad when you think about it. Win and we could end up as runners up, lose and who did we beat? Scotland and Italy, at home....


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    #93
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    .ak wrote: »
    It is actually mad when you think about it. Win and we could end up as runners up, lose and who did we beat? Scotland and Italy, at home....

    But there is quite a difference between winning and losing. If we win, it will be a good win, no matter what people say.

    Even if we scrape our way to a narrow victory while not playing to the top of our game, we know England are a fairly decent team and will obviously be doing everything they can to stop us reaching our peak.


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    #94
    prospect
    Registered Users Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭prospect


    .ak wrote: »
    It is actually mad when you think about it. Win and we could end up as runners up, lose and who did we beat? Scotland and Italy, at home....

    And drew, away, with France.


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    #95
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    prospect wrote: »
    And drew, away, with France.

    And we are correctly disappointed with anything less than a win.


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    #96
    Leslie91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    DK's selection strategy i.e. keep picking the same lads no matter what is reaching Eddie O'Sullivan proportions.

    Make a change at 12 for chrissakes minimum.


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    #97
    Moflojo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    Leslie91 wrote: »
    DK's selection strategy i.e. keep picking the same lads no matter what is reaching Eddie O'Sullivan proportions.

    Make a change at 12 for chrissakes minimum.

    Why? Just to try out another fella at test level? In an important game against a form side? Sure.


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    #98
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    .ak wrote: »
    It is actually mad when you think about it. Win and we could end up as runners up, lose and who did we beat? Scotland and Italy, at home....

    Thats why the margins in a comp like the Six Nations are so tight.


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    #99
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Moflojo wrote: »
    Why? Just to try out another fella at test level? In an important game against a form side? Sure.

    You could argue you are taking out an ageing, out-of-form player who will now have played 4 internationals in a row, and replacing him with fresh, more long-term prospect who would be coming up against a very inexperienced backline, and nothing he wouldn't have faced before.


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    #100
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Moflojo wrote: »
    Why? Just to try out another fella at test level? In an important game against a form side? Sure.

    Or maybe to replace a guy whose form has been well short of what's required? I know, I was shocked as well.

    I have been one of D'Arcy's strongest supporters on here, but whether it's his age, fitness or he misses BOD outside him, I don't know but he's not producing the goods (particularly in attack) and we have a ready-made replacement in McFadden.


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    #101
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    This is a pivotal game in the Kidney tenure. Lose and we will have regressed. Win and the tournament can be seen as a qualified success

    I wouldn't agree but that will be the consensus opinion no doubt.

    At the time I was happy to get a draw in Paris but after France's loss last weekend suddenly a draw doesn't hold much currency now.

    No matter what happens this weekend, the last 2 minutes against Wales will drive me bonkers for a long time. That was a humilating capitulation.


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    #102
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    totallegend wrote: »
    Or maybe to replace a guy whose form has been well short of what's required? I know, I was shocked as well.

    I have been one of D'Arcy's strongest supporters on here, but whether it's his age, fitness or he misses BOD outside him, I don't know but he's not producing the goods (particularly in attack) and we have a ready-made replacement in McFadden.
    Who do you think Joe Schmidt and Co will select for Leinster at 12 in the ERC QF v Cardiff?


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    #103
    ray jay
    Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ray jay


    Leslie91 wrote: »
    DK's selection strategy i.e. keep picking the same lads no matter what is reaching Eddie O'Sullivan proportions.

    Make a change at 12 for chrissakes minimum.
    Oh don't worry, you'll get the chance to see our 12 of the future when D'Arcy is subbed off and Sexton gets moved across.


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Who do you think Joe Schmidt and Co will select for Leinster at 12 in the ERC QF v Cardiff?

    The difference is massive.

    Ireland play <10 games a year. There are only so many opportunities to give someone a chance to earn a spot in green.

    If we had a competition below the level of the 6N, we'd see a chance for McFadden at 12 (perhaps the Rabo vs HEC is important here).

    However, given that that isn't the case, and given that we are out of the running for silverware, these all precious ranking points are going to be this season's excuse for conservatism.

    What's next season's?


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    #105
    Deano7788
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Deano7788


    I think ye're being very unfair on Kidney. He clearly likes making unenforced changes. It just so happens that every one of them involves dropping Sexton for no apparent reason every so often or needlessly moving him out of position with about a quarter of the game left when there's a more sensible replacement 12 on the bench


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    #106
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    prospect wrote: »
    And drew, away, with France.

    That'll be forgotten easily. Beside it's not a win. Having only beat Scotland and Italy would be dismal.


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    #107
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,596 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    This is a pivotal game in the Kidney tenure. Lose and we will have regressed. Win and the tournament can be seen as a qualified success

    Yes, losing at Twickenham to England who invented the game and who have had so much more experience and years and years of play and a far bigger population pool to pick from will be regression.


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    #108
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The difference is massive.

    Ireland play <10 games a year. There are only so many opportunities to give someone a chance to earn a spot in green.

    If we had a competition below the level of the 6N, we'd see a chance for McFadden at 12 (perhaps the Rabo vs HEC is important here).

    However, given that that isn't the case, and given that we are out of the running for silverware, these all precious ranking points are going to be this season's excuse for conservatism.

    What's next season's?

    There is no difference.
    The game vs England is NOT a development or trial game. Ditto for the Leinster game v Cardiff. It is in fact, as has been pointed out many times, hugely important. Paraphrasing yourself, a "precious" game taking place in a year where seedings are decided for the next RWC.

    Irish selectors are picking what is likely the very same choice as their first-above for centre.


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    #109
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JustinDee wrote: »
    There is no difference.
    The game vs England is NOT a development or trial game. Ditto for the Leinster game v Cardiff. It is in fact, as has been pointed out many times, hugely important. Paraphrasing yourself, a "precious" game taking place in a year where seedings are decided for the next RWC.

    Irish selectors are picking what is likely the very same choice as their first-above for centre.

    I think you'll find I've clearly explained the difference.


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    #110
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    Tox56 wrote: »
    You could argue you are taking out an ageing, out-of-form player who will now have played 4 internationals in a row, and replacing him with fresh, more long-term prospect who would be coming up against a very inexperienced backline, and nothing he wouldn't have faced before.

    Without mentioning who to put in, this is a little light on substance. If you mean McFadden, I dont think it's wise. And DK does not seem to see him as an option at 12 so I dont think it will happen.


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    #111
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,596 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    .ak wrote: »
    That'll be forgotten easily. Beside it's not a win. Having only beat Scotland and Italy would be dismal.

    Dismal, how?

    We usually lose to France. Wales are always a real tough side. It is their national game. And England is England. Nobody beats us easily. We have a lot to be proud of.


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    #112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BoardsMember wrote: »
    Without mentioning who to put in, this is a little light on substance

    McFadden for D'Arcy was who the discussion centres on


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    #113
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    JustinDee wrote: »
    totallegend wrote: »
    Or maybe to replace a guy whose form has been well short of what's required? I know, I was shocked as well.

    I have been one of D'Arcy's strongest supporters on here, but whether it's his age, fitness or he misses BOD outside him, I don't know but he's not producing the goods (particularly in attack) and we have a ready-made replacement in McFadden.
    Who do you think Joe Schmidt and Co will select for Leinster at 12 in the ERC QF v Cardiff?
    Who do you think Tony McGahan and co will pick at 4 and 5 for theirs?


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    #114
    ray jay
    Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ray jay


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, losing at Twickenham to England who invented the game and who have had so much more experience and years and years of play and a far bigger poulation pool to pick from will be regression.
    We beat them the last 3 out of 4 times we played there in the Six Nations so yeah it would be a regression.


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    #115
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    walshb wrote: »
    Dismal, how?

    We usually lose to France. Wales are always a real tough side. It is their national game. And England is England. Nobody beats us easily. We have a lot to be proud of.

    I'd disagree. A total moral and tactical defeat by a woeful French side. We put them under the hammer in the first half, and then in the second we tried to sit back in defense and we were beaten off the park by a French side doing the basics and playing 8-man rugby. Our lack of attacking ability has been shown up, and our ability to change to any other gameplan that doesn't consist of sitting back on our heels to defend was painfully obvious. Any other team with that lead would've gone on and secured the game. France didn't do an awful lot to get back into the game - their pack was immense, but other than that they played pretty one-dimensional rugby.


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    #116
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,596 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    ray jay wrote: »
    We beat them the last 3 out of 4 times we played there in the Six Nations so yeah it would be a regression.

    That does not tell any story. Some you win and some you lose. Overall we have a more successful record in the 6 nations that England, a country far far bigger than us. England this year look to me to be a stronger team than last year. Not saying they look great, but better.


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    #117
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Who do you think Joe Schmidt and Co will select for Leinster at 12 in the ERC QF v Cardiff?

    Not really relevant; D'Arcy's form for Leinster has been excellent this season, why would Schmidt want to drop him?


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    #118
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,596 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    .ak wrote: »
    I'd disagree. A total moral and tactical defeat by a woeful French side. We put them under the hammer in the first half, and then in the second we tried to sit back in defense and we were beaten off the park by a French side doing the basics and playing 8-man rugby. Our lack of attacking ability has been shown up, and our ability to change to any other gameplan that doesn't consist of sitting back on our heels to defend was painfully obvious. Any other team with that lead would've gone on and secured the game. France didn't do an awful lot to get back into the game - their pack was immense, but other than that they played pretty one-dimensional rugby.

    I agree about that ONE game in France. We seemed to sit back and defend and hope. France deserved that win, as they appeared to want to go and win the game. Woeful French side? Why is it with us that when we do well, or beat a team, we make excuses? We beat Scotland there and we have to listen to commentators slagging Scotland.

    Are you saying that the only reason we were in with a chance of beating France was because they were woeful?


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    #119
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    totallegend wrote: »
    Not really relevant; D'Arcy's form for Leinster has been excellent this season, why would Schmidt want to drop him?

    Has Darcy not been the first choice 12 this season & last under Schmidt when available and fit?


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    #120
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    BoardsMember wrote: »
    Has Darcy not been the first choice 12 this season & last under Schmidt when available and fit?

    Yeah, exactly my point; his form for Leinster is fine but is not being replicated in a green jersey, for whatever reason.


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    #121
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    totallegend wrote: »
    Not really relevant; D'Arcy's form for Leinster has been excellent this season, why would Schmidt want to drop him?

    He's the very same player and just as important to the backline in either team.


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