UAE, DUBAI/SABIS TEACHING!!

Kohl · 16-12-2011 2:36pm

Potz1179 wrote: »

I had my interview during the week bit long (20 mins) but went ok, they ask plenty of annoying questions like how do you think you could inspire your students, how would you maintain discipline in the classroom without loosing the rag, and what methods would you use to keep the childrens attention spans during the long school days. Have your application form in front of you and the sabis information too and you should be able to flick back and forth between the two, worked for me. To be fair I found myself giving similar answers to a lot of what they asked me but I still think it went ok! I just hope they get back to me sooner than next august don't want to have to wait around until then!

Ah I was outside when they rang me! Luckily I read up on my answers to the questions the night before. I think the face to face interviews will be in March. Well that's what they said to me. Lets see how it goes.

MsJavanna1 · 16-12-2011 4:40pm

Kohl wrote: »

Was this with SABIS or someone else? Did they not adjust to the working conditions or the culture. Explain.

The lost of 30% teaching staff after Christmas Holidays, was not with SABIS. From prior discussions with those teachers, their reasons were mostly culture, and some were the school. Please keep in mind, that when traveling to the Middle East, you are entering a completely different world.

With regards to culture, some people cannot adjust to the religion, laws, street life, and scamming. For example, one teacher was so upset that she could not buy alcohol during Ramadan (well she could go to a hotel and pay 200% more). Well the Law, really the law didn't exist, everything took so long to get done, people would just 'get over it'. One teacher was absolutely beautiful, and she would get constantly harassed walking down the street (but she was gorgeous). Scamming, when buying daily items, Foreign Looking teachers always had to barter. Many times, although I am born and raised in US, my parents are middle eastern, I would go shopping with teachers; I guess once the seller sees a local present they kinda watch their step. Yes.... Call me the Enforcer LOL

It is hard living in the Middle East, But I enjoyed so much. I am dying being back in the US.

Yes, Religion is big there, but it also makes the street peaceful 5x day. Everyday is safe especially for females. Friday is the best day, nothing is open, Many teachers and I would join up at my place Friday Brunch, chill, smoke a sheesha, and laugh. I didn't need the police around, because my neighbors always looked out me 24-7. Streets... yes everyone stares whether you are white, black, pretty or Ugly. GET IT! You are different to them... think positive, many are interested and many are super friendly. Scamming.... This makes travel interesting, when I first arrived to the Middle East, my Arabic was bad I was getting ripped off everywhere I turned. After time, you learn the average price of everything, and you hunt and explore new areas and find unique things and places.

The School! Privates are privates schools, they are paid services, and the customer will render the service how ever he sees fit. Keep this minds. However, my school did have some academic integrity. To be honest, the first month I yelled everyday to the point where I lost my voice. I realized the students were yelled by everyone..... they were immune to the yelling. So I stopped yelling, criticizing, and focusing on the negative. I started to praise positive behavior, hand out monthly awards, praised parents for raising fabulous children, stuck to my boundaries, and keep my weekly plans consistent. By February, they were finally great. Keep in mind, the biggest fight is going to be with yourself. You are going to have to change. I promise you, you will change for the better.

The Great THING!!! Every time you think you are about to explode, guess what??? you get a holiday. Spend the money and travel... plan your vacation well in advance. The Travel in the Middle East, will refresh you.

The Discipline was a joke in my school, and I did not rely on my Administration. Truly I despised the owner of my school. However, I love her now! Listen... she wasn't nice to my face, but she was honest... and she paid my salary which was generous on time, every time. She fulfilled her end of the contact. That all you want... I wanna work... explore, and get paid. KISS (Keep it super simply)

Pay... well my first term started in February.... and I was not paid like the others ($1200US). But I was fresh to high school teaching.. and the school gave me a chance. When I signed my September Contract my salary increased by 70%. First year you are teaching you are proving yourself, and gaining leverage... Leverage pays off.

I asked about the salary incentive for returning teachers with Sabis, although not in writing, it is customary for returning teachers to have a salary increase. I have other friends who work with Sabis for several years, and have confirmed the increase is upon every annual return. But once again, we are all going to have to prove ourselves.

I remember, with my 70% increase, my Flatmate was upset that I received more than her (keep in mind, secrets do not exist in the Middle East, my flatmate found out from a cousin to the accountant at my school).

But here's the deal;
-She would call sick almost weekly.
-Class was done by 3pm, She would leave, and most teachers stayed till 4PM and completed lessons plans for the following week.
-She was always late with lesson plans
-She was often hung over teaching....
***Keep your work life super clean...

If you want more money for the following year, then do what is requested of you. KISS

Now, many people on this blog have said negative things about the School. Keep in mind this is an International School with Schools all over the world. Previous employees have explained, that if a students transfers from say UAE to the US, he will be able to transfer smoothly; because the curriculum is consistent across the world.

I hope this explains a little more... if you have any other inquires, I am definitely excited to share my experiences.

It looks like I am being placed in Sharjah, if anyone can share their experiences, I would greatly appreciate it

Kohl · 17-12-2011 12:14pm

MsJavanna1 wrote: »

The School! Privates are privates schools, they are paid services, and the customer will render the service how ever he sees fit. Keep this minds. However, my school did have some academic integrity. To be honest, the first month I yelled everyday to the point where I lost my voice. I realized the students were yelled by everyone..... they were immune to the yelling. So I stopped yelling, criticizing, and focusing on the negative. I started to praise positive behavior, hand out monthly awards, praised parents for raising fabulous children, stuck to my boundaries, and keep my weekly plans consistent. By February, they were finally great. Keep in mind, the biggest fight is going to be with yourself. You are going to have to change. I promise you, you will change for the better.

The Discipline was a joke in my school, and I did not rely on my Administration.

So you reckon shouting is not the best way to gain control when we get into the classroom? How do we be "firm from the start"?, as it points out in the SABIS documentation.

Can you issue detentions? I gather from the documentation that I got, that its the Administration people who are supposed to decide on the punishments.

MsJavanna1 · 17-12-2011 4:50pm

Kohl wrote: »

So you reckon shouting is not the best way to gain control when we get into the classroom? How do we be "firm from the start"?, as it points out in the SABIS documentation.

Can you issue detentions? I gather from the documentation that I got, that its the Administration people who are supposed to decide on the punishments.

Please keep in mind I was in another part of the Middle East, so things may be better in the UAE and with SABIS.

We must be realistic, yelling and frustration is going to happen, we are human beings. Yes, children are cute, but somedays you may "wanna punch them in the face." Just Kidding

The yelling is always going to start from the entry of class, and than spiral out control by the end of the class. The key is to control the classroom from the very second you enter. In my situation, I used to love Thursday because Thursdays were test/quizzes days. Children came to class quickly, and sat down quickly, and dove their minds into the exam. So I decided to complete 5 minute quizzes at the beginning of each class. After implementing this, the kids hated me for about a week, and they simply got over it. Good news, my kids were always on-time for class, prepared with materials, and their brains were warmed up and ready for the lesson.

Lastly, because my class was under control. I was able to focus on the positive behaviors, and compliment students. After a while, students were doing whatever they could, to get compliments, and in class Awards.

For punishments, it really depends on the school discipline policy. One thing you cannot do is be inconsistent. You are going to have follow through on everything you say. Keep in mind, if you issue detention, you'll be the one staying after school.. I never did detention, I found it useless. One day I made a large obese child run stairs for 1 hour.... after that day, I simply had a look and he would smarten up. One day I made the children of a rich family, clean their classroom with mopes and brooms etc. Apparently this was "unheard of" but it worked.

This is what I mean when I say "you are going to have change." Keep trying new methods of Classroom Management, until you find the one that works with you. One thing, if you find your school does not really follow through punishments, please do not waste energy being pissed off at the Administration. Find a solution, and deal with. I wasted 3 months being pissed off at people. but once I took ownership, it only took about a month to get my classes in perfect order.

Anybody going to Sharjah, or already works in Sharjah?

Alia89 · 18-12-2011 10:48am

Hi people,

Sorry to keep sending msgs like this but I really need to know what a police clearance form is and what it entails..and where do I get this from as I reside from London, I've read all the previous posts and all I've gathered so far is the irish police form, this won't be applicable to me so how do I set about in obtaining one.

Thanks

MsJavanna1 · 18-12-2011 3:17pm

Alia89 wrote: »

Hi people,

Sorry to keep sending msgs like this but I really need to know what a police clearance form is and what it entails..and where do I get this from as I reside from London, I've read all the previous posts and all I've gathered so far is the irish police form, this won't be applicable to me so how do I set about in obtaining one.

Thanks

This is a criminal record. In the US we go to any finger printing company, and they complete all the requests for you. I would contact your local police department and determine the best procedure in your location.

Ambersky · 18-12-2011 3:54pm

MsJavanna1 says
Yes, Religion is big there, but it also makes the street peaceful 5x day. Everyday is safe especially for females

I was wondering which females you are referring to because it seems there are several groups of women who seem to be at risk in the UAE.

For example there is a thread over in the Lesbian Gay Bi Trans Forum where a woman and her female partner were wondering were they mad for considering going to work in Dubai where it is illegal to be gay.

Some info on that matter below.
http://www.detainedindubai.org/Detained_In_Dubai/Gay_in_Dubai.html

Homosexuality is not just a taboo subject in Dubai - its strictly forbidden and punishable by law.
Reports claim that punishment for homosexuality can range from 10 years in prison, fines, deportation and even the death penalty

I dont think Lesbians will feel safe 5x a day.

MsJavanna1 also says that
One teacher was absolutely beautiful, and she would get constantly harassed walking down the street (but she was gorgeous).

So I guess that woman wasnt feeling safe 5x a day getting "constantly harassed" but it appears to have been her own fault or at least what else could she expect being so beautiful.
It seems that harassment gets excused and made little of so dont expect it to be reported or stopped if it should happen to you.

Info from Human Rights Organisations http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2007/03/24/uae-draft-labor-law-violates-international-standards on the treatment of female domestic servants isn’t so good either.

The issue of sexual abuse among female domestic servants is an area of concern, particularly given that domestic servants are not covered by the UAE Labor Law of 1980 or the Draft Labor Law of 2007.[59] Worker protests have been cracked down on.[60] Until today, the government has not allowed for trade unions to form despite having promised to do so since 2004.[61]

"It's an open secret that employers in the UAE often confiscate the passports of their employees," Whitson said. "Yet the government chooses to ignore this widespread and illegal practice and refuses to punish the offending employers."

Johann Hari http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
In an article called The Dark Side of Dubai reports on some pretty awful endemic and institutionalized bad treatment of women as well as men.

It is an open secret that once you hire a maid, you have absolute power over her. You take her passport – everyone does; you decide when to pay her, and when – if ever – she can take a break; and you decide who she talks to. She speaks no Arabic. She cannot escape..........
...................................... one theme unites every expat I speak to: their joy at having staff to do the work that would clog their lives up Back Home. Everyone, it seems, has a maid. The maids used to be predominantly Filipino, but with the recession, Filipinos have been judged to be too expensive, so a nice Ethiopian servant girl is the latest fashionable accessory.

The article contains several interviews with people working in the UAE who did not understand the differences in employment law and were initially seduced by the sun the malls and the money untill they ran into trouble.
So find out all you can about the laws from independent sources, not just the ones I have posted here and not just the information you are being given by official recruiting agencies.

The Independent article is one article I would urge those thinking of working in UAE to read in order to inform themselves of the other story about working there.
What you decide to do about it is up to you but it is a matter of choosing to look or not to look at human rights abuses not just one of ignorance.
Most people I would think choose not to look not to see and certainly that is what the authorities want.

I approach a blonde 17-year-old Dutch girl wandering around in hotpants, oblivious to the swarms of men gaping at her. "I love it here!" she says. "The heat, the malls, the beach!" Does it ever bother you that it's a slave society? She puts her head down, just as Sohinal did. "I try not to see," she says. Even at 17, she has learned not to look, and not to ask; that, she senses, is a transgression too far.

Those who live there and do speak out tell of the consequences

Horrified by the "system of slavery" his country was being built on, he spoke out to Human Rights Watch and the BBC. "So I was hauled in by the secret police and told: shut up, or you will lose you job, and your children will be unemployable," he says. "But how could I be silent?"
He was stripped of his lawyer's licence and his passport – becoming yet another person imprisoned in this country. "I have been blacklisted and so have my children. The newspapers are not allowed to write about me."
Why is the state so keen to defend this system of slavery? He offers a prosaic explanation. "Most companies are owned by the government, so they oppose human rights laws because it will reduce their profit margins. It's in their interests that the workers are slaves."

Alia89 · 18-12-2011 11:13pm

Hi people,

This all sounds very interesting but im pretty sure the SABIS network is not a slavery institution.

Referring back to the interviews, I have been sent an email requesting; degree certificate, passport copy and a police clearance form...all of which I have provided apart from the clearance form, Im from London and ive enquired about this at my local police station and they were useless and didnt know what a police certificate/clearance form is.

If anyone from London or near enough London has had to provide a clearance form as part of their interview process, how did you go about doing that? And is it the same as a Subject Access request?

Thanks.

MsJavanna1 · 18-12-2011 11:50pm

Ambersky wrote: »

I was wondering which females you are referring to because it seems there are several groups of women who seem to be at risk in the UAE.

For example there is a thread over in the Lesbian Gay Bi Trans Forum where a woman and her female partner were wondering were they mad for considering going to work in Dubai where it is illegal to be gay.

Some info on that matter below.
http://www.detainedindubai.org/Detained_In_Dubai/Gay_in_Dubai.html

I dont think Lesbians will feel safe 5x a day.

So I guess that woman wasnt feeling safe 5x a day getting "constantly harassed" but it appears to have been her own fault or at least what else could she expect being so beautiful.
It seems that harassment gets excused and made little of so dont expect it to be reported or stopped if it should happen to you.

Info from Human Rights Organisations http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2007/03/24/uae-draft-labor-law-violates-international-standards on the treatment of female domestic servants isn’t so good either.

Johann Hari http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
In an article called The Dark Side of Dubai reports on some pretty awful endemic and institutionalized bad treatment of women as well as men.

The article contains several interviews with people working in the UAE who did not understand the differences in employment law and were initially seduced by the sun the malls and the money untill they ran into trouble.
So find out all you can about the laws from independent sources, not just the ones I have posted here and not just the information you are being given by official recruiting agencies.

The Independent article is one article I would urge those thinking of working in UAE to read in order to inform themselves of the other story about working there.
What you decide to do about it is up to you but it is a matter of choosing to look or not to look at human rights abuses not just one of ignorance.
Most people I would think choose not to look not to see and certainly that is what the authorities want.

Those who live there and do speak out tell of the consequences

I'm am sorry that you are not impressed with the situation in Dubai. If you recall, I had mentioned that my experience was not from Dubai. I hope your future travels are filled with better experiences.

I am a heterosexual female who lived in the Middle East, and had an absolutely wonderful time. I lived with the locals, I understood their culture, and adapted; and I will have the experience with me forever.

All the best!

Alia89 · 19-12-2011 12:31am

alimai wrote: »

Hey, this is the form I sent them and they seemed happy with it!

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/data%20protection%20access%20request%20form%20(f20).pdf

Hi Alimai,

I am currently in the interviewing process and the SABIS recruiters have requested I send them a police clearance form..how do I go about doing this and what information will it include?

The link you provided; is merely an application for an access request. Would SABIS accept this if I obtain one from my local police station in London?

Thanks

Ambersky · 19-12-2011 3:38pm

I'm am sorry that you are not impressed with the situation in Dubai. If you recall, I had mentioned that my experience was not from Dubai.

Dubai is apparently one of the more liberal areas of the the UAE
If we were to talk specifically about the UAE in general it seems Human Rights Abuses are even worse.

Migrants, particularly migrant workers, make up a majority (approximately 80%) of the resident population of the UAE, and account for 90% of its workforce.[6] They lack rights associated with citizenship and face a variety of restrictions on their rights as workers.[7][8]

It is common practice, although illegal, for employers in the UAE to retain employees' passports for the duration of the employment contract to prevent expatriate employees from changing jobs. On termination of an employment contract, certain categories of expatriates are banned from obtaining a work permit in the country for six months.[9]

Migrants, mostly of South Asian origin, constitute for 42.5% of the UAE’s workforce[10] and are subject to a range of human rights abuses. Workers typically arrive in debt to recruitment agents from home countries and upon arrival are often made to sign a new contract in English or Arabic which pays them less than had originally been agreed.[11] Visa and travel costs are typically added on to the original debt, and thus within hours of their arrival, workers often find that their debt-repayment time has increased significantly, possibly by years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates

There is lots of information available about all this, I was challenging MsJavanna1's statement that women were 5x safer in the UAE.
I wanted to know which women were safer.
It appears that Ms Javanna1 can assure us she is a heterosexual woman and not an illegal lesbian, or a domestic migrant worker, or even a very attractive western woman, so it seems she was talking for herself, she feels safer. Well thats all right then.

As for adjusting to the culture, which seems to be the general advice given to those who go there, I would like to ask another question.
Just how far do you go when adjusting to a culture?

Would those of you who are Irish teachers consider taking up the advice on classroom management given by MsJavanna1 to do things to students that would not be allowed in Ireland

One day I made a large obese child run stairs for 1 hour....

if you find your school does not really follow through punishments, please do not waste energy being pissed off at the Administration. Find a solution, and deal with.

So here you are, away from home, being given the encouragement to invent punishments for students with the backing of the institution you are working for in order to fit into the culture.
Do you take up the advice to not waste your own time on detention and invent ways to humiliate or otherwise punish students.
Fat ones obviously get long repetitive exercises and rich ones do what are considered subservient tasks.
It seems SABIS employ a lot of recent graduates without qualifications in teaching and without experience of classroom management.
They are required, it seems from previous posts by people who have worked there, to get the students to learn things by heart and discouraged from questioning or teaching reasoning skills.
Many posters have talked about the constant shouting the students have to listen to from everyone.

Hmmmm! anyone remember the Stanford Prison Experiment
http://psychology.about.com/od/classicpsychologystudies/a/stanford-prison-experiment.htm

"Only a few people were able to resist the situational temptations to yield to power and dominance while maintaining some semblance of morality and decency; obviously I was not among that noble class," Zimbardo later wrote in his book The Lucifer Effect.
What Do the Results of the Stanford Prison Experiment Mean?

According to Zimbardo and his colleagues, the Stanford Prison Experiment demonstrates the powerful role that the situation can play in human behavior. Because the guards were placed in a position of power, they began to behave in ways they would not normally act in their everyday lives or in other situations. The prisoners, placed in a situation where they had no real control, became passive and depressed.

Even though it is against internationl law for employers to retain passports and even though you know that this practice is the way less well off workers than you, are retained against their will, would you comply and hand over your passport on request.

Well, I was scared to death when "my contract" explained a passport procedure. Again, the recruiter explained the procedure

If the recruiter explains you comply.

As long as its not you who is being overtly exploited do you just ignore anything that happens to anyone else around you?
Is everything ok so long as the money is ok.
There is hope however change is inevitable.

Kohl · 19-12-2011 10:27pm

Ambersky wrote: »

Dubai is apparently one of the more liberal areas of the the UAE
If we were to talk specifically about the UAE in general it seems Human Rights Abuses are even worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates

There is lots of information available about all this, I was challenging MsJavanna1's statement that women were 5x safer in the UAE.
I wanted to know which women were safer.
It appears that Ms Javanna1 can assure us she is a heterosexual woman and not an illegal lesbian, or a domestic migrant worker, or even a very attractive western woman, so it seems she was talking for herself, she feels safer. Well thats all right then.

As for adjusting to the culture, which seems to be the general advice given to those who go there, I would like to ask another question.
Just how far do you go when adjusting to a culture?

Would those of you who are Irish teachers consider taking up the advice on classroom management given by MsJavanna1 to do things to students that would not be allowed in Ireland

So here you are, away from home, being given the encouragement to invent punishments for students with the backing of the institution you are working for in order to fit into the culture.
Do you take up the advice to not waste your own time on detention and invent ways to humiliate or otherwise punish students.
Fat ones obviously get long repetitive exercises and rich ones do what are considered subservient tasks.
It seems SABIS employ a lot of recent graduates without qualifications in teaching and without experience of classroom management.
They are required, it seems from previous posts by people who have worked there, to get the students to learn things by heart and discouraged from questioning or teaching reasoning skills.
Many posters have talked about the constant shouting the students have to listen to from everyone.

Hmmmm! anyone remember the Stanford Prison Experiment
http://psychology.about.com/od/classicpsychologystudies/a/stanford-prison-experiment.htm

Even though it is against internationl law for employers to retain passports and even though you know that this practice is the way less well off workers than you, are retained against their will, would you comply and hand over your passport on request.

If the recruiter explains you comply.

As long as its not you who is being overtly exploited do you just ignore anything that happens to anyone else around you?
Is everything ok so long as the money is ok.
There is hope however change is inevitable.

You seem like you have a serious chip on your shoulder.

Kohl · 19-12-2011 10:33pm

MsJavanna1 wrote: »

I'm am sorry that you are not impressed with the situation in Dubai. If you recall, I had mentioned that my experience was not from Dubai. I hope your future travels are filled with better experiences.

I am a heterosexual female who lived in the Middle East, and had an absolutely wonderful time. I lived with the locals, I understood their culture, and adapted; and I will have the experience with me forever.

All the best!

Hi Javanna

Can you stay put in between contracts if you don't want to travel during the summer? Or do you have to leave the country during the summer?

MsJavanna1 · 20-12-2011 8:23am

Kohl wrote: »

Hi Javanna

Can you stay put in between contracts if you don't want to travel during the summer? Or do you have to leave the country during the summer?

Hi Kohl,

I like your question. I have not thought that far ahead. I assume you can stay, because most teachers receive a residency card. However, most friends of mine leave during the summer due to the extreme heat. I would definitely ask your interviewer that question. I'll ask my interviewer and let you know.

All the best

Ambersky · 20-12-2011 12:35pm

Ms. Javanna1 says....
You seem like you have a serious chip on your shoulder.

Remember to attack to post not the poster.
But I wouldn't mind being accused of having a problem with human rights violations.
Do you have a problem with human rights violations MsJavanna1?
Because I mentioned a few issues and you just said it doesnt affect you and that you personally had lots of fun.

Maybe my posts have been too long, with too many questions and moral issues to think about.
So let me try putting one question out there at a time.

My question.
Why is there a request, no an insistence, that potential employees hand over their passports even though it is against international and national UAE laws?

For anyone else questioning this, Google passport retention and you will get a lot of information as well as a list of the usual excuses used to justify this illegal practice.

Under the UAE Federal Law retaining ones passport is illegal. It is an offence that carries a three year jail sentencing or a fine of up to AED 20,000/-. On the 25th of December 2002, a decree was issued by the Ministry of Interior regarding the Retention of Passports. The decree ( document shown in Arabic) states
“As the passport is a personal document that and as the law obliges its owner to keep and show when required by the governmental authorities, it is not allowed for any party to detain the passport except by the official parties with a judicial order and according to the law. Consequently it will be considered as an illegal action to detain the passport in UAE except by the governmental parties. So please announce this to all of your parties. In case of retaining passports there will be a suitable punishment by the law of UAE”.

http://hub.witness.org/en/upload/passport-retention-uae

MsJavanna1 · 20-12-2011 5:30pm

Ambersky wrote: »

Remember to attack to post not the poster.
But I wouldn't mind being accused of having a problem with human rights violations.
Do you have a problem with human rights violations MsJavanna1?
Because I mentioned a few issues and you just said it doesnt affect you and that you personally had lots of fun.

Maybe my posts have been too long, with too many questions and moral issues to think about.
So let me try putting one question out there at a time.

For anyone else questioning this, Google passport retention and you will get a lot of information as well as a list of the usual excuses used to justify this illegal practice.

http://hub.witness.org/en/upload/passport-retention-uae

Dear Ambersky,

It's interesting to see how passionate you are about the issues in the Middle East, especially concerning the UAE. You voice concerns that many people have, and who may not have the courage to speak up. You bring about valid points, however I do request that you read each post carefully.

With regards to the quote about "having a chip on your shoulder," was not written by myself.

I would also like to to clarify before your accusations get out of hand. I never worked in the in UAE and I never said that females are safe 5x's a day. I stated that when I was in the Middle East, I found it peaceful 5x's day.

As for the Obese child, since that day; he has has lost 80 lbs, off diabetic medication, and now plays soccer 4x's a week. During the summer break, I was flattered that his family made the effort to visit me while they were in the US. "Humiliation"....hmmmm.... I recognize your concern:)

You give valid points that we should all be aware of when entering the UAE. I understand their laws, and some I do not agree with, but I HAVE to be respectful, I will be entering their country and I have to abide by their laws. As a foreigner, I cannot change the law. By as a teacher, I can guide students to intrinsically develop ideas that they may feel is best for their country.

NOTE: The law in the UAE publicly states the conduct with the Emirates. It is not a hidden from foreigners.

The population in UAE is approximately 8.3 million, and 12% of that consist of foreigners which have lived in the UAE for 3 years or greater; is approximately 996,000 people. Out of the foreigner population 14% are from the UK and USA (not including Europeans, and Australians). I am curious as to why almost 140,000 westerners have lived and remain in the UAE for so long? What has allowed westerners to enjoy the UAE so much, to make them want to stay for more than 3 years? Ambersky, since you are knowledgeable on the UAE, could you answer this question for me?

Also, can you confirm which school's do not retain passports when applying for Residency Cards?

Oh yes and What is your purpose on this forum? Is it to scare people from the UAE? I believe this site about Teaching at SABIS, have you worked for SABIS? Are you a teacher? Are you still with SABIS, if not how long did you work their? How long did you live in the UAE, and which part of the UAE did you live in? If you are not in the UAE, why did you live the UAE?

Your input is always greatly appreciated,

Ambersky · 20-12-2011 11:47pm

Thank you for acknowledging my concerns and the concerns of many human rights watchers MsJavanna1 and apologies for attributing the personal comment to you rather than Kohl.
I too will make efforts to keep away from personal criticisms and I acknowledge you just came on here to help people.
We seem to be presenting things from opposing ends of the spectrum maybe we wont always, but for now..

Im afraid the law in the UAE publicly stating the conduct in the Emirates isnt enough.
In fact they do both, they publicly state that the retention of passports is illegal and it is public knowledge and practice as seen in this thread to demand their retention in order to get accepted for employment.
My posts have been getting bogged down with too much information so I would just like to ask again

Why is there a request, no an insistence, that potential employees hand over their passports even though it is against international and national UAE laws?

Disagreeing with the laws and being respectful of them is a difficult balance and a thin line at times.
I think it is wrong to try to confuse human rights violations with cultral practice and I believe that is what is happening all the time in the UAE.

I do think that any changes that are to occur will come about when the people themselves, that is all the people not just Native Emiraties, decide it will.
The objections of Westerners does have some influence as does the general influence caused by travel and culture both in and out of the region.

The presence of westerners in the region "respecting" and abiding by the culture is often used as proof that westerners dont have that much problem with human rights violations and that it is just a few hot heads getting excited about nothing who are behind the criticisms.
This poses a difficulty for westerners, such as foreign teachers, who disagree with certain practices because they are told they must be respectful and that they cant do anything anyway as foreigners, but their very presence is held up as an example of how acceptable the society is.

Im not saying or implying that the region has nothing to offer, nor am I saying there are no fine good people there, or that all of the culture is bad.
I think some of the defensiveness, understandably, can come from a feeling of being under attack from the West. That is very regrettable.
But human rights violations can not be held onto as a badge of cultural identity.
There are many many things to be proud of in UAE peoples and culture and it would be prouder with the loss of these violations that damage not only the victims but those who support such practices.

Oh and being gay, having this........
"The United Arab Emirates includes the Emirates of Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Ras al-Khaimah, Umm Al Quwain, Ajman, Fujairah and Sharjah. Sexual relations outside of a traditional, heterosexual marriage are a crime and punishments range from jail time, fines, deportation, and the death penalty. A person may also face forced hormone treatments which may include chemical castration. Adultery is also a crime, and a person convicted of homosexuality may also face charges of adultery if they have a spouse while having sexual relations with a person of the same-sex."
.........................................on the books pis*es me off just a little.

MsJavanna1 · 21-12-2011 7:11pm

Ambersky wrote: »

Thank you for acknowledging my concerns and the concerns of many human rights watchers MsJavanna1 and apologies for attributing the personal comment to you rather than Kohl.
I too will make efforts to keep away from personal criticisms and I acknowledge you just came on here to help people.
We seem to be presenting things from opposing ends of the spectrum maybe we wont always, but for now..

Im afraid the law in the UAE publicly stating the conduct in the Emirates isnt enough.
In fact they do both, they publicly state that the retention of passports is illegal and it is public knowledge and practice as seen in this thread to demand their retention in order to get accepted for employment.
My posts have been getting bogged down with too much information so I would just like to ask again

Disagreeing with the laws and being respectful of them is a difficult balance and a thin line at times.
I think it is wrong to try to confuse human rights violations with cultral practice and I believe that is what is happening all the time in the UAE.

I do think that any changes that are to occur will come about when the people themselves, that is all the people not just Native Emiraties, decide it will.
The objections of Westerners does have some influence as does the general influence caused by travel and culture both in and out of the region.

The presence of westerners in the region "respecting" and abiding by the culture is often used as proof that westerners dont have that much problem with human rights violations and that it is just a few hot heads getting excited about nothing who are behind the criticisms.
This poses a difficulty for westerners, such as foreign teachers, who disagree with certain practices because they are told they must be respectful and that they cant do anything anyway as foreigners, but their very presence is held up as an example of how acceptable the society is.

Im not saying or implying that the region has nothing to offer, nor am I saying there are no fine good people there, or that all of the culture is bad.
I think some of the defensiveness, understandably, can come from a feeling of being under attack from the West. That is very regrettable.
But human rights violations can not be held onto as a badge of cultural identity.
There are many many things to be proud of in UAE peoples and culture and it would be prouder with the loss of these violations that damage not only the victims but those who support such practices.

Oh and being gay, having this........
"The United Arab Emirates includes the Emirates of Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Ras al-Khaimah, Umm Al Quwain, Ajman, Fujairah and Sharjah. Sexual relations outside of a traditional, heterosexual marriage are a crime and punishments range from jail time, fines, deportation, and the death penalty. A person may also face forced hormone treatments which may include chemical castration. Adultery is also a crime, and a person convicted of homosexuality may also face charges of adultery if they have a spouse while having sexual relations with a person of the same-sex."
.........................................on the books pis*es me off just a little.

Hi Ambersky,

This last post is fantastic, this explains what foreigners may experience when entering UAE, and whom will need to be aware of. Thank You, this is an excellent post.

Alia89 · 21-12-2011 9:35pm

The discussion about the UAE Laws are very interesting being a law graduate I can only advise to abide by these laws no matter how restricted they are.

However on a different note, I was wondering if a basic CRB check is enough for SABIS? As this is what I’ve applied for. I am currently waiting for this piece of document to get sent to me via the post so that I can forward this to the SABIS recruiters.

If anyone who has gone through the interviewing process and has been asked to send this piece of document if they can shed a little light on this topic it will be greatly appreciated. Please bare in mind that I am from London and this process is different to that of Ireland/Dublin.

Thank you.

Kohl · 22-12-2011 3:26pm

Alia89 wrote: »

The discussion about the UAE Laws are very interesting being a law graduate I can only advise to abide by these laws no matter how restricted they are.

However on a different note, I was wondering if a basic CRB check is enough for SABIS? As this is what I’ve applied for. I am currently waiting for this piece of document to get sent to me via the post so that I can forward this to the SABIS recruiters.

If anyone who has gone through the interviewing process and has been asked to send this piece of document if they can shed a little light on this topic it will be greatly appreciated. Please bare in mind that I am from London and this process is different to that of Ireland/Dublin.

Thank you.

Just ring up the HR department. Ask them would a CRB check or proof of application would be enough for them, and if so, then contact your local police station and ask them if you can get above said document(s). It's a no brainer.

Kohl · 22-12-2011 3:37pm

Ambersky wrote: »

Thank you for acknowledging my concerns and the concerns of many human rights watchers MsJavanna1 and apologies for attributing the personal comment to you rather than Kohl.
I too will make efforts to keep away from personal criticisms and I acknowledge you just came on here to help people.
We seem to be presenting things from opposing ends of the spectrum maybe we wont always, but for now..

Im afraid the law in the UAE publicly stating the conduct in the Emirates isnt enough.
In fact they do both, they publicly state that the retention of passports is illegal and it is public knowledge and practice as seen in this thread to demand their retention in order to get accepted for employment.
My posts have been getting bogged down with too much information so I would just like to ask again

Disagreeing with the laws and being respectful of them is a difficult balance and a thin line at times.
I think it is wrong to try to confuse human rights violations with cultral practice and I believe that is what is happening all the time in the UAE.

I do think that any changes that are to occur will come about when the people themselves, that is all the people not just Native Emiraties, decide it will.
The objections of Westerners does have some influence as does the general influence caused by travel and culture both in and out of the region.

The presence of westerners in the region "respecting" and abiding by the culture is often used as proof that westerners dont have that much problem with human rights violations and that it is just a few hot heads getting excited about nothing who are behind the criticisms.
This poses a difficulty for westerners, such as foreign teachers, who disagree with certain practices because they are told they must be respectful and that they cant do anything anyway as foreigners, but their very presence is held up as an example of how acceptable the society is.

Im not saying or implying that the region has nothing to offer, nor am I saying there are no fine good people there, or that all of the culture is bad.
I think some of the defensiveness, understandably, can come from a feeling of being under attack from the West. That is very regrettable.
But human rights violations can not be held onto as a badge of cultural identity.
There are many many things to be proud of in UAE peoples and culture and it would be prouder with the loss of these violations that damage not only the victims but those who support such practices.

Oh and being gay, having this........
"The United Arab Emirates includes the Emirates of Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Ras al-Khaimah, Umm Al Quwain, Ajman, Fujairah and Sharjah. Sexual relations outside of a traditional, heterosexual marriage are a crime and punishments range from jail time, fines, deportation, and the death penalty. A person may also face forced hormone treatments which may include chemical castration. Adultery is also a crime, and a person convicted of homosexuality may also face charges of adultery if they have a spouse while having sexual relations with a person of the same-sex."
.........................................on the books pis*es me off just a little.

You see, what I don't understand particularly well... is why some people, and nations, feel the need to be the world's police. Like do these nations and people have a leg to stand on? In Ireland, we have a huge scandal with clerics abusing children, and lots of white collar crime and other cirumstances which has led to this country going down the pan and needing a massive bail out. Ireland is very racist and homophobic, and I have no problem saying that as an Irish citizen. I dunno why I'd personally start preaching about other countries laws and society when our own are far from perfect.

Also look at countries like America and North Korea & Iran. Those countries are so far away from America. It just comes across to me like a stupid individual cornering a dangerous animal. A dangerous animal isn't going to strike out at you if you're nowhere near it. Why would you actively seek out and aggravate a dangerous animal. Unless you're stupid of course!

MsJavanna1 · 22-12-2011 6:56pm

Anyone out there going to be in Sharjah come Feb 2012.... I am looking for recreation leagues. I have reviewed Duplays.com but they do not have anything for Sharjah, everything is in Dubai. I am particularly a fan of Beach Volleyball. If you anyone is already on a league or interested in starting a league definitely let me know.

Ambersky · 22-12-2011 8:39pm

Kohl you raise some interesting issues when you bring up the child abuse scandals and recent white collar crime which has caused the economic crisis.
I think when people hear about injustices they are gripped by a despair that they can do nothing and by what they believe to be the ineffectiveness of the individual.

In order for both of the scandals you mentioned to have happened, we had to have a situation where good people said nothing.
There were people, relatives, teachers, clerics, social workers, neighbours, etc. who knew those children were being abused but said and did nothing.
There were people who knew about the illegal and immoral activities going on in the building and banking sectors and either said nothing or were told to shut up and kill themselves.

Looking back it is easy to ask why nothing was done, the need for action for someone to stand up and shout stop is so obvious now.
But that’s not how great events feel as they are happening, they happen amid loads of conflicting opinions, advice and reactions, its hard to hear your own voice.

They say that if you are going to have something bad happen to you , you are better off having one person witness the event than to have a crowd of people witness it.
In a crowd it seems each individual is likely to use the others as a monitor to see if the situation is serious or not.
Since everyone is doing the same thing, i.e. nothing, they are likely to conclude there is no need to intervene.
There is also another factor involved where each individual assumes someone else is going to do something and leaves it up to others.
Or they can simply feel too embarrassed to stand out from the crowd.

I believe we all get opportunities in our lifetime to decide to act, to speak up, to make a difference or not.

On homophobia although LGBT rights have come a long way in Ireland there is still work to be done in the hearts and minds of some, for example not all LGBT teachers feel their jobs are fully protected so there is still work to be done there.
Three points.
• Those few known heterosexual teachers who stood by our side and campaigned for LGBT rights were, and are, greatly appreciated and they did so often at times and in situations when we could not speak for ourselves.
• Our situation is not the same as LGBT people in the UAE and a few other areas of the world, which still have the death penalty, flogging, deportation and jail sentences on their books for being homosexual.( If you are looking around, checking out the crowd to see if this is something to get upset about, don’t mind all them, use your common sense, this is something to get upset about.)

• LGBT people in Ireland were also grateful for the influence of other nations in particular the EU in bringing about the changes in law in Ireland that went towards our full human entitlements as citizens of this state.

And Kohl I don’t know which nation you are comparing to a dangerous animal, I think you mean America can be seen as attacking North Korea and Iran which can be seen as dangerous cornered animals.
I would think those countries and others are probably looking on America as the dangerous animal. It is true nations are fearful of one another, some want to attack and control because of fear and others want to say nothing and not engage because of fear.
Whatever you mean I would rather think of us as interconnected and more similar than not, while understanding our very real differences.
This is why I am saying that it is important when travelling to a region where you know human rights violations are happening that you not only don’t close your eyes and hearts to them, you also make sure to take care of yourself realising the very different situation you are in.
Laws and practices in the UAE are not the same as in your country of origin so make sure you understand the laws and that the laws are not always abided by, ( eg retention of passports).
Westerners are often accused of behaving stupidly, acting as though they are protected and believing nothing bad can happen to them no matter where they travel.
As well as asking simple questions about where you sign up, I think it would be useful to find out what to do if you got into trouble.
Is there an independent contact, what would trouble there mean as opposed to trouble here, what would you need to do, how would you travel, what are the get out clauses.

Kohl · 26-12-2011 12:02pm

Ambersky wrote: »

On homophobia although LGBT rights have come a long way in Ireland there is still work to be done in the hearts and minds of some, for example not all LGBT teachers feel their jobs are fully protected so there is still work to be done there.
Three points.
• Those few known heterosexual teachers who stood by our side and campaigned for LGBT rights were, and are, greatly appreciated and they did so often at times and in situations when we could not speak for ourselves.
• Our situation is not the same as LGBT people in the UAE and a few other areas of the world, which still have the death penalty, flogging, deportation and jail sentences on their books for being homosexual.( If you are looking around, checking out the crowd to see if this is something to get upset about, don’t mind all them, use your common sense, this is something to get upset about.)

• LGBT people in Ireland were also grateful for the influence of other nations in particular the EU in bringing about the changes in law in Ireland that went towards our full human entitlements as citizens of this state.

You should start a separate thread about cultures and sexuality and talk about gay rights there. This isn't the place for such a discussion, and complaining about UAE laws really doesn't help anyone on here who wants to get a job there.

Now I'm sure everyone on here is intelligent enough to do their own research on the country and the job in question. If you aren't living in the UAE or working there, then UAE laws don't really concern you. Well.....I mean....... unless of course, an individual has a massive chip on their shoulder and they go out of their way to make it their concern. Enough said.

spurious · 26-12-2011 2:39pm

Let's leave the modding to the mods.
Backseat modding not needed, thanks.

I for one believe that a gay or lesbian teacher working in certain countries running the risk of possible execution is very much a consideration for this forum, if we are advising Irish people to go work there.

Alia89 · 26-12-2011 6:32pm

Hi People,

Has anyone heard anything back from the SABIS recruiters, (those who are in the interviewing process ofcourse.) I'm pretty anxious, and waiting eagerly to hear back from them, was wondering if anyone else has.

Thanks

MsJavanna1 · 26-12-2011 8:17pm

Alia89 wrote: »

Hi People,

Has anyone heard anything back from the SABIS recruiters, (those who are in the interviewing process ofcourse.) I'm pretty anxious, and waiting eagerly to hear back from them, was wondering if anyone else has.

Thanks

Hi Alia89, keep in mind that it's the holidays and things may slow down until after the New Year. Perhaps forward a Post Interview Letter to your recruiter, and/or call the office directly.

Kohl · 27-12-2011 8:47pm

Alia89 wrote: »

Hi People,

Has anyone heard anything back from the SABIS recruiters, (those who are in the interviewing process ofcourse.) I'm pretty anxious, and waiting eagerly to hear back from them, was wondering if anyone else has.

Thanks

I haven't heard anything. I don't expect to for a while.

LadyLorr20 · 28-12-2011 3:43pm

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I'm not very good with boards.ie, but I have just filled out the application form for the sabis teaching and I am currently doing my video CV. However, I am wondering, am I too late? Is the application procedure over? I could not see deadlines on the website.

Also, if anyone could answer another question for me. If a person would need time off next October (Oct 2012), for example, for a graduation, would it be possible to get a week off or even a few days?

Thank you for any help.

hunnybunny · 28-12-2011 4:45pm

Alia89 wrote: »

However on a different note, I was wondering if a basic CRB check is enough for SABIS? As this is what I’ve applied for. I am currently waiting for this piece of document to get sent to me via the post so that I can forward this to the SABIS recruiters.

Sabis are asking for CRB (criminal records checks)? I am very glad to hear it if so. I remember being very concerned that they didn't ask when I was recruited as God knows who could have access to children in that case :eek:.

I could be wrong but I don't think a full CRB check can be requested by an individual in England. I know only institutions are allowed like the school or teacher training university. Unless there is a minor CRB check that can be requested on an individual basis?

In Ireland I was requested to get a letter from the Gardai stating I had no previous convictions at my Irish address and this was put forward as part of my CRB check for teacher taining. Though that is nowhere near as sufficent as a CRB check as they don t look beyond your current address.

When I was applying to schools in the middle east last year, they said they were prepared to accept my old CRB documents that would date from 2008 and 2009 (as I have been working in my school for 3 years). I wasn't thrilled about the safety element of that but its certainly better than not asking for anything at all. I really think the UAE should bring in some visa regulation with regards criminal checks and teaching before something dreadful happens.

UAE, DUBAI/SABIS TEACHING!!

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