Class Rep training junket?

LeixlipRed · 04-10-2011 09:35PM #1

Anyone from the SU want to comment on the rumours that the SU are paying for class rep training to be held in a hotel this year as opposed to the normal procedure of having it locally? I'm just not exactly sure why anyone in their right mind could think in this current economic climate that it was ok to piss away students' money on such frivolous rubbish. It's only a rumour I know but perhaps someone could enlighten us?

Fbjm · 05-10-2011 01:04AM

Banquo said that today in english; I'd say that's why there were so many potential candidates actually. To quote half of them after being asked why they were up for it: "and sure the hotel sounds like good craic".

Seren_ · 05-10-2011 03:54AM

It would probably most certainly be good craic, but unless some sort of grant is given for things like this, then every student in Maynooth's money is paying for it.

Fbjm · 05-10-2011 08:15AM

yeah, it's being paid for by the 93 euro we all paid at the start of the year to the SU.

LeixlipRed · 05-10-2011 10:38AM

So it is true. Even if it were being paid for by a grant that's still some taxpayers' money. It's a complete and utter disgrace. Funny how it corresponds with the election of known FF member to the SU executive. The party of junkets. Hold the training on campus which will cost nothing but the money for some food for lunch. I await the response were the excuse is something like this: "oh but we had to, sure you need a proper room to have a real training exercise in, we all couldn't hold hands while we get pissed in SU room 3-4, it's simply not big enough".

mp3guy · 05-10-2011 12:02PM

Tbh, there are plenty of things each year that the SU money is spent on which I have no interest in and don't benefit from. I've learned to just stop caring.

I would however like to see a breakdown of the €93 at the end of the year to see exactly how much of it went where.

LeixlipRed · 05-10-2011 12:08PM

Those of you who were about last year will get this one:

5,000 yellow t-shirts: 25 grand.

Kinski · 05-10-2011 12:36PM

Eh? What's that about tshirts?

XxMCRxBabyxX · 05-10-2011 12:39PM

Kinski wrote: »

Eh? What's that about tshirts?

The tshirts for the protest last year

banquo · 05-10-2011 12:39PM

mp3guy wrote: »

I would however like to see a breakdown of the €93 at the end of the year to see exactly how much of it went where.

That we can do, and will be doing shortly.

On the hotel thing, I can see how someone could read 'SU people go to hotel' and see it as a random night out for class reps for the craic. It's not. There's not a hope in hell I would sign that cheque.

I would also note that in the current economic climate, an effective, representative Union is needed more than ever. Also, there is no 'normal procedure' because we don't usually have class rep training.

Reasons to have Class Rep Training:

An effective class rep system is the only way any Students' Union can realistically be in any way representative. We haven't had a genuine level of representation in years, so we're taking a few steps this year to put the Union to work. There are a few steps involved.

1. Getting Class Reps. Going from lecture to lecture explaining what a Class Rep is, does and then electing as many as that class requires.

2. Class rep training, which every other college does, hasn't been done by us in years. Without any kind of guidance or skills a Class Rep isn't much use to their class. So we're taking everyone away to the cheapest room and board we could find that would fit everyone and has the rooms we need for two full days modules and then Union Council.

We started off looking at hostels and B&Bs, but there's not one in the country that can fit 120-150 people for a night. Most hotels would even struggle at that. The hotel we're going to is the cheapest we could find.

3. Making sure that people in the class know who their Class Rep is.

I've to leg it upstairs to a capitation meeting now, but if anyone wants me to elaborate on anything here they can either email me or post it here.

*Rob

XxMCRxBabyxX · 05-10-2011 12:42PM

banquo wrote: »

mp3guy wrote: »

I would however like to see a breakdown of the €93 at the end of the year to see exactly how much of it went where.

That we can do, and will be doing shortly.

On the hotel thing, I can see how someone could read 'SU people go to hotel' and see it as a random night out for class reps for the craic. It's not. There's not a hope in hell I would sign that cheque.

I would also note that in the current economic climate, an effective, representative Union is needed more than ever. Also, there is no 'normal procedure' because we don't usually have class rep training.

Reasons to have Class Rep Training:

An effective class rep system is the only way any Students' Union can realistically be in any way representative. We haven't had a genuine level of representation in years, so we're taking a few steps this year to put the Union to work. There are a few steps involved.

1. Getting Class Reps. Going from lecture to lecture explaining what a Class Rep is, does and then electing as many as that class requires.

2. Class rep training, which every other college does, hasn't been done by us in years. Without any kind of guidance or skills a Class Rep isn't much use to their class. So we're taking everyone away to the cheapest room and board we could find that would fit everyone and has the rooms we need for two full days modules and then Union Council.

We started off looking at hostels and B&Bs, but there's not one in the country that can fit 120-150 people for a night. Most hotels would even struggle at that. The hotel we're going to is the cheapest we could find.

3. Making sure that people in the class know who their Class Rep is.

I've to leg it upstairs to a capitation meeting now, but if anyone wants me to elaborate on anything here they can either email me or post it here.

*Rob

Why a hotel? What's wrong with using campus? Even putting some commuters up in St. Pats if really necessary?

I'm all in favour of the training. Just not what seems like a waste of an expense

banquo · 05-10-2011 12:43PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

So it is true. Even if it were being paid for by a grant that's still some taxpayers' money. It's a complete and utter disgrace. Funny how it corresponds with the election of known FF member to the SU executive. The party of junkets. Hold the training on campus which will cost nothing but the money for some food for lunch. I await the response were the excuse is something like this: "oh but we had to, sure you need a proper room to have a real training exercise in, we all couldn't hold hands while we get pissed in SU room 3-4, it's simply not big enough".

*types quickly*

You'll find that in every college that does this - and we consulted plenty in planning this - that people turn up for the food, head off down the town or off with their mates and skip the modules, the point of class rep training, and come back for the dinner. Doesn't work. You gotta get everyone in the one place and keep them there.

banquo · 05-10-2011 12:44PM

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Why a hotel? What's wrong with using campus? Even putting some commuters up in St. Pats if really necessary?

Originally we wanted to do a 'campus swap' with one of the Dublin colleges, but there wasn't enough room for their class reps in St. Pats accommodation and the Glenroyal combined!

XxMCRxBabyxX · 05-10-2011 12:46PM

banquo wrote: »

LeixlipRed wrote: »

So it is true. Even if it were being paid for by a grant that's still some taxpayers' money. It's a complete and utter disgrace. Funny how it corresponds with the election of known FF member to the SU executive. The party of junkets. Hold the training on campus which will cost nothing but the money for some food for lunch. I await the response were the excuse is something like this: "oh but we had to, sure you need a proper room to have a real training exercise in, we all couldn't hold hands while we get pissed in SU room 3-4, it's simply not big enough".

*types quickly*

You'll find that in every college that does this - and we consulted plenty in planning this - that people turn up for the food, head off down the town or off with their mates and skip the modules, the point of class rep training, and come back for the dinner. Doesn't work. You gotta get everyone in the one place and keep them there.

That can easily be done in a hotel either...

XxMCRxBabyxX · 05-10-2011 12:48PM

banquo wrote: »

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Why a hotel? What's wrong with using campus? Even putting some commuters up in St. Pats if really necessary?

Originally we wanted to do a 'campus swap' with one of the Dublin colleges, but there wasn't enough room for their class reps in St. Pats accommodation and the Glenroyal combined!

Forget about swaps! Use our own campus!

All I can see this doing is attracting the people who want the freebies

LeixlipRed · 05-10-2011 12:53PM

banquo wrote: »

*types quickly*

You'll find that in every college that does this - and we consulted plenty in planning this - that people turn up for the food, head off down the town or off with their mates and skip the modules, the point of class rep training, and come back for the dinner. Doesn't work. You gotta get everyone in the one place and keep them there.

That's rubbish and you know it. How many people are you putting up in this hotel and how much is it costing? These are the same sort of excuses politicians roll out, you do realise that don't you? Oh but we had to have it in a hotel, we also had to go for the deluxe lunch because people wouldn't have the energy for all the meetings if they just ate soup, so on so forth. The lot of you are a disgrace, should be ashamed of yourselves.

What I want to know is:

-Who chose the hotel? Who was consulted about that decision?
-Where is the hotel? How many people are being accommodated for the weekend? Is everyone staying overnight? Will there be a piss up/party as the main event in the evening?
-How much is it costing as opposed to if you held it on campus over one day?

LeixlipRed · 05-10-2011 12:55PM

banquo wrote: »

Originally we wanted to do a 'campus swap' with one of the Dublin colleges, but there wasn't enough room for their class reps in St. Pats accommodation and the Glenroyal combined!

Ffs, why would you even need to swap? The idea that another SU would even consider putting people up in the Glenroyal for free just illuminates what most people already know, people get involved in the SU for freebies, junkets and the cv.

Seren_ · 05-10-2011 01:05PM

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Forget about swaps! Use our own campus!

All I can see this doing is attracting the people who want the freebies

That's my problem with it too. When people hear "free hotel" and "free food" they're going to go for it regardless of being interested in being a class rep or not.

I actually wasn't aware that this was the first year that class rep training was being held. It is a very good thing for students here, but I just feel that campus would have been a good enough venue to hold it in.

If class reps are uncomfortable with students' money being used to pay for the training, has a procedure been put in place to allow them to pay for the hotel etc with their own money?

banquo · 05-10-2011 01:09PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

That's rubbish and you know it. How many people are you putting up in this hotel and how much is it costing? These are the same sort of excuses politicians roll out, you do realise that don't you? Oh but we had to have it in a hotel, we also had to go for the deluxe lunch because people wouldn't have the energy for all the meetings if they just ate soup, so on so forth. The lot of you are a disgrace, should be ashamed of yourselves.

What I want to know is:

-Who chose the hotel? Who was consulted about that decision?
-Where is the hotel? How many people are being accommodated for the weekend? Is everyone staying overnight? Will there be a piss up/party as the main event in the evening?
-How much is it costing as opposed to if you held it on campus over one day?

I don't get the references to politicians, or where these 'deluxe lunches' are coming from.

We would love to host it on campus for next to nothing, but hosting it on campus doesn't work. It's never worked. When all classes are taken into account, you need about 130/140 Class Reps for NUIM / St. Pat's. One of the modules is how the Universities work - their internal structure, who to go to with particular problems, correct methods of appeal, etc. It's a lot of facts and logistics and can be pretty boring stuff. Whether or not someone is there for the freebies, if we have them captive for the module they'll know the stuff by the end, and the class won't have elected someone who has absolutely no idea how to help them.

If you have it on campus then people just wander off for the modules back to their house / down the town / anywhere but a 90 minute talk on their long list of responsibilities as a class rep.

LeixlipRed · 05-10-2011 01:12PM

And I'm saying that's complete and utter rubbish. If people wander off and don't attend then having them booted out. Make attendance mandatory. These people are supposed to be adults and if they want a free lunch then let them sit in a room all day while the training takes place for free on campus.

And the other stuff was me implying that you lot are nothing better than politicians

banquo · 05-10-2011 01:24PM

1. I can't kick class reps out. They were democratically elected.
2. 'Attendance is mandatory' comes with zero repercussions for not attending.
3. :pac:

LeixlipRed · 05-10-2011 01:46PM

Democratically elected with the proviso that they actually fulfill their roles. Also, I still want answers to the questions I posted above. You know well you've been caught with the pants down on this one, cancel it now before it grows legs and we'll let you take the credit

the_observer · 05-10-2011 01:47PM

Oh dear.

Tesco Massacre · 05-10-2011 01:49PM

But it's slightly tricky to corral between 120-150 students into a hotel without quite a few using it as a jolly for a couple of days, no? I.e. they'll do exactly what they did when you held these training exercises on campus, except this time it'll be in a hotel that other students are paying for.

LeixlipRed · 05-10-2011 01:51PM

I'm sure our friends over at the student observer will get to the bottom of this

cython · 05-10-2011 01:51PM

banquo wrote: »

1. I can't kick class reps out. They were democratically elected.
2. 'Attendance is mandatory' comes with zero repercussions for not attending.
3. :pac:

All that seems like the SU constitution and rules have taken some steps back over the years so, as I remember a time when a class rep who missed 2 consecutive UCs in a row was deemed to have resigned. I cannot quote the constitution stating this, but it was something told to us at the time as reps, so may have been scaremongering either. Regardless, the current constitution looks to have no repercussions whatsoever for dereliction of duties by a class rep, which seems very naive.

Would it really have been that difficult to include a requirement of at least attendance at a minimum number of UCs and training, with repercussions for non attendance being that they are deemed to be resigned, and a new rep can thus be elected in their stead? At this point, anyone (barring, perhaps, a minority of first years) who is elected a class rep is legally an adult, and should be treated as such.

Can you imagine the reaction if any other "elected" representatives were sent away for training in this manner on the basis that they wouldn't attend if it were done locally or in house? I'm pretty sure USI and Maynooth SU would be out protesting if it was done for TDs or similar, so why are you different? And the final crux of this - if you have this little faith in people to attend training, what makes you think they are going to bother their holes fulfilling the duties that you are tasking them with? This smacks of being a feel good, pat-yourselves-on-the-back-lads exercise within the SU, where you can tell yourselves you tried to give an effective system.

And this comes from someone who was a rep way back when, possibly before any of the current exec were even in the college, when class rep training was done, and done in house, and guess what - we turned up!

LeixlipRed · 05-10-2011 01:51PM

Tesco Massacre wrote: »

But it's slightly tricky to corral between 120-150 students into a hotel without quite a few using it as a jolly for a couple of days, no? I.e. they'll do exactly what they did when you held these training exercises on campus, except this time it'll be in a hotel that other students are paying for.

But surely they'll choose a hotel out in the middle of nowhere? You know, somewhere expensive

LeixlipRed · 05-10-2011 01:53PM

I was a little worried when I posted this up that people's response would be, "there's that lefty bastard moaning again"

But I'm heartened by the fact that, contrary to what we're constantly told, some students here do actually give a **** about how the university and SU spend their money.

the_observer · 05-10-2011 01:58PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I'm sure our friends over at the student observer will get to the bottom of this

We're already working on the article

Tesco Massacre · 05-10-2011 01:59PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

But surely they'll choose a hotel out in the middle of nowhere? You know, somewhere expensive

And presumably with no bar.

I'd be interested to know where this is taking place & how much it's costing.

LeixlipRed · 05-10-2011 02:01PM

Well obviously, people only skip modules when they're pissed out of their faces. It'll be like an episode of Boardwalk Empire, high on tension and not a drop of alcohol to be found.

Class Rep training junket?

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