Class Rep training junket?

LeixlipRed

Nision wrote: »

Ok, so much for the controversy.

On the protest event page of the 10 people attending/maybe attending.
5 are not maynooth students or members of the union.
3 of those 5 were NEVER maynooth students.
Another 2 are "student observer" heads who are presumably there to cover it rather than support it.

That leaves two men who are presumably trying to recruit a dog.

So is this being organised by People before profit, Right to work, FEE, United left Alliance or whatever the SWP are calling themselves this week?

So what exactly is your position on the SU junket? How do you know students on a random fb page have never attended this university? I don't think my fb page says I'm a student here. Yet I am...so I think the question is, what's your agenda? Mate of an SU exec? On the exec? The event is being orgnaised by FEE, which comprises members of the SWP, Sinn Fein, Labour Youth, the Socialist Party, WSM, etc, etc,. All of whom don't particularly like having their money spent in the way it is. Do you not have an issue with that? And who do you represent? Cue you never posting in this thread again of course...

ontour

Pity they couldnt use the money to heat john hume building

Nision

LeixlipRed wrote: »

So what exactly is your position on the SU junket? How do you know students on a random fb page have never attended this university? I don't think my fb page says I'm a student here. Yet I am...so I think the question is, what's your agenda? Mate of an SU exec? On the exec? The event is being orgnaised by FEE, which comprises members of the SWP, Sinn Fein, Labour Youth, the Socialist Party, WSM, etc, etc,. All of whom don't particularly like having their money spent in the way it is. Do you not have an issue with that? And who do you represent? Cue you never posting in this thread again of course...

FEE is just another SWP front these days and you know it. A Shell of the organization it was.
I don't really have an agenda or care where the class rep training is done at all tbh.
I just wanted to call the "protest" out for what it is.

And as for how i know, there are very few who have clicked attending (so far anyway) it's not rocket science. And i know most of the SWP/Whatever heads. Most of those attending are not union members and some never were.
So no, they don't get a say.

The SWP should divert their usual suspects rent a crowd into something more productive.

Also, i recall FEE being in favour of joining USI for the very reason that they helped organize this sort of Union training.

LeixlipRed

What are you talking about??

Look through this thread, every single person here bar you and Rob have expressed at least displeasure and at most disgust at what's happening.

As for the other political stuff, you're talking through your hole, FEE isn't an organisation, anyone who believes in education being a right and not a privilege can be involved. Every student who is not happy with this is encouraged to attend. The fact you don't think it's an issue is hilarious to be honest, but that's your own problem.

As for your perception that all those who've clicked attending or not students or all SWP members, that's just plain wrong Do you want to PM me and we'll go through them all seeing as you know all these people?

Also, it's a fb event, it's not real life, the idea was just to have a page so people could be made aware of through a different channel. It's not someone's bloody birthday party ffs.

LeixlipRed

Well it took me a few minutes to figure it out. I like the way you have supported the event on the fb page too Nision. For all those of you who aren't aware of it Nision has actually attended FEE meetings many times in the past. He's also a mate of Robs.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64519865&postcount=22

Ataxia

Nision wrote: »

FEE is just another SWP front these days and you know it.

Here what are you basing that on? There's more anarchists in FEE than there are SWP and SP put together.

LeixlipRed

Well if we're being particular there is no FEE branch in the college at the moment. I think Monday will be our first meet up for the year You can come Oisin, we won't give you too much stick for that foot in mouth episode

Michellenman

Lol at the fact that Sean Gallagher was on campus today meeting SU heads, a true FF'er, he must be trying to get in on the junket :pac:

LeixlipRed

He's probably letting them use one of his seven houses.

TheManHimself

Nision wrote: »

Also, i recall FEE being in favour of joining USI for the very reason that they helped organize this sort of Union training.

unreal....

LeixlipRed

TheManHimself wrote: »

unreal....

Yeh, mad, a left wing organisation getting one union to affiliate to another, that's crazy :P

XxMCRxBabyxX

Nision wrote: »

Ok, so much for the controversy.

On the protest event page of the 10 people attending/maybe attending.
5 are not maynooth students or members of the union.
3 of those 5 were NEVER maynooth students.
Another 2 are "student observer" heads who are presumably there to cover it rather than support it.

That leaves two men who are presumably trying to recruit a dog.

So is this being organised by People before profit, Right to work, FEE, United left Alliance or whatever the SWP are calling themselves this week?

I've been in work all day so I haven't had a chance to even look at the event, unfortunately I can't attend because of said work but that doesn't mean that I can't support the idea. I also tend to clash with FEE a lot which can be seen by previous posts of mine.

BUT I do not agree with what's going on here. That has nothing to do with who's organising what, just that I, who tends to be pretty passive about these things, think that it's a disgrace tbh and I won't be changing my mind until Rob, Who I voted for (despite the abuse that you gave ms before Nisin) and who I do still support, and the rest of the SU (I voted for some, was against others) give us a PROPER excuse and not the BS one that we are currently being given. And j believe that most of the others who have posted on here would agree

So much for the controversy indeed

the_observer

Just to confirm re: the mention of us by Nision:

Yes, we will be there just to cover the events. In our capacity as journalists, we do not take sides.

LeixlipRed

the_observer wrote: »

In our capacity as journalists, we do not take sides.

Unlike Nision, who takes both sides :pac:

MaynoothParty

Not a big fan of the SU by any means. I can honestly say that in the two years I have been in this college there has not been one S.U. initiative which has had a major impact on my overall college experience.

The same problems I had in first year are many of the same ones I still have now. I'd say the majority of students would be in the same boat. The S.U. imho is a means of people advancing their political careers.

So regarding this training excercise. When I heard about this training session I was completely against it. Then I thought about it a bit more and decided it might actually be worth a shot. It is clear that the current manner of electing class representatives is completely inept system. Both the past class reps I had never consulted with the class about any grievances they may have had and again Im sure its the same in most classes in the S.U.

The current system clearly doesn't work. So any new initiative is welcome in my opinion This new initiative might actually get people who have no political aims, actually getting involved in the S.U albeit accidently. If it actually gets
non political students involved in our student life, it will be worth the investment imo.

So I ask FEE can you come up with any new initiative which is likely to increase this interaction? If you come up with criticisms please come up with constructive and effective solutions instead of saying we should get more people involved in the Student Union.

So in practising what I preach, heres my new intiative which happens in many other collleges: Class Reps go an organise a night out for their class. Happens out in DIT, maybe should be give a go here.

XxMCRxBabyxX

MaynoothParty wrote: »

So in practising what I preach, heres my new intiative which happens in many other collleges: Class Reps go an organise a night out for their class. Happens out in DIT, maybe should be give a go here.

Already being done by some.

And honestly? You think this is the most important improvement needed for the class rep system?

LeixlipRed

Right, I don't speak for all of FEE firstly but you seem to be confused. FEE is not against training class reps, we have no problems with the SU's initiative to get people involved in the Union.

What we do have an issue with is junkets, wastage of the student contribution. Which you haven't addressed in your post that I can see?

Who in their right mind would be opposed to training people to be class reps? We just don't want anyone footing the bill for a piss up.

MaynoothParty

Nope I don't at all. Its just a suggestion which happens in other colleges that I'm aware off. Im sure there are plenty of others and probably more effective ones. It was my two cents of what happens in other colleges which doesn't happen here and what I would like to see happen here.

The S.U. itself should really look at ways of copying whatever is effective in other colleges and implementing them here. Instead we just get these constant bull**** excuses like the common one "its hard to get commuter students involved". Other colleges have a much more interactive student body with many more commuters.

LeixlipRed

I don't think anyone disagrees with any of that. But what's your opinion on the trip to the hotel? Isn't that what the thread is about?

PrivateEye

This really is a journalists wet-dream. Student leaders march against increasing fees, then organise junket trips to hotels.USI's National Congress is another example of this sort of carry-on and it's only damaging to the image of the union. How many times in the past have images of SU types out of their brains on some 'junket' appeared in the likes of Phoenix Magazine? Too many is the answer.

I'm a graduate of NUIM now, but fought tooth and nail to get Maynooth into the USI with FEE. Of course nobody is opposed to Class Training. In fact,the piss-artistry which seemed to dominate the culture around the NUIMSU was one of the things which made us want USI membership in the first place, believing membership of some sort of national organisation could only be good for the union in Maynooth. I remember the first time we raised the idea of USI membership at a Union Council meeting towards the end of my first year that we were laughed at,not least by a certain full-time unelected non-student in the SU who completely dismissed the idea, but thats neither here nor there .

The rotten culture at the heart of USI with regards junkets, 'trips for the boys' and the likes is something that must be removed from Irish student politics, simple as. It's wrong to use students financial contribution to their union for a purpose like this, why can't this training be done on campus?

There's the potential for a great union in Maynooth, but this sort of awful culture isn't the way to win anything.

That leaves two men who are presumably trying to recruit a dog

I can remember a few SU protests where even a dog couldn't be found in fairness. Regardless of how many show up, fair play to students opposed to this wasting of their money.

MadameGascar

Ok so, I can't even afford my registration fee. But when I can (probably with a fine on top of that), some freeloader is going to use that to have dinner & stay in a hotel?

It can be done somewhere else, throw out a few cookies as an incentive, and afterwards they can go home and sleep in their own bed. I'm completely disgusted & all defense here so far has been pathetic.

MaynoothParty

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I don't think anyone disagrees with any of that. But what's your opinion on the trip to the hotel? Isn't that what the thread is about?

As I said earlier I was completely against it at first. But having thought about it for a while I'm coming around to the idea.

People may get involved in this for the wrong reasons at first. But there should be some means of ensuring value for money for this expenditure.

This is a quite a drastic measure and would probably never be implemented. But the first idea that comes to my head would be to force every potential class rep to sign a contract, that failure to provide regular feedback to the Student Union will lead to them being named and shamed for wasting student resources. Again there is probably better ways to enforce it, than this but this is one potential option. Other better ways are probably out there. Before the S.U. proceeds with it though it should ensure that we get value for money through some means.

This project is admittedly a high initial outlay. However I have no idea what the student union has ever spent my money on apart from paying people an extortionate amount of money to sit around their offices having tea before they go into politics. At least with this project I know where exactly my money is going and if it works brilliant. If it doesn't it means they have less money to spend on the crap they do at the moment.

lordgoat

Having gone to NUIM, been a class REP, been in the SU and seen things from the outside for quite a while now here are a few observations.

Class Reps need first of all need to be interested in actually representing their peers and they definitely need training to know how to do this. To know what they can and can't do and what are actual credible and achievable goals and requests.

Training should be in NUIM, yes students are likley to wander off but take a role call if you have to ensure they attend.

Run it in a way that's not like going to a lecture and organise something to do after it's over in the evening.

Subsidise food but that's about it.

Be transparent about how much it costs.

LeixlipRed

MaynoothParty wrote: »

As I said earlier I was completely against it at first. But having thought about it for a while I'm coming around to the idea.

I stopped reading after this part. Are you seriously saying you think that there is extra benefit to be gained for the student population here at large from a junket to a hotel? Do you realise there are students who live hand to mouth every day of the week? Students who have families to support? And that as a matter of principle alone this trip and the money it's costing is an affront to those students.

I cannot think of one possible benefit of having this event in a hotel as opposed to having it on campus. Because there are none.

T_G_B

Hey, I'm still kind of catching up on this, been without my laptop all week, but what happened to the interview the 'student observer' guys were supposed to do? Shouldn't that have been posted by now?

LeixlipRed

Give the lads a chance, I'm not even sure the interview has taken place yet.

the_observer

We've had a couple of delays in getting an interview done.
First was over agreeing on format for the interview.
We were looking to do it this afternoon and it it up this evening but
Rob got in touch and said he was ill today.

I suppose we'll have to do it over the week but it'll be far later than we had hoped. Hopefully, we'll have some form of written statement from the union as an official comment.

-Dave

T_G_B

the_observer wrote: »

We've had a couple of delays in getting an interview done.
First was over agreeing on format for the interview.
We were looking to do it this afternoon and it it up this evening but
Rob got in touch and said he was ill today.

I suppose we'll have to do it over the week but it'll be far later than we had hoped. Hopefully, we'll have some form of written statement from the union as an official comment.

-Dave

Wow, prompt response. Sound lads. That's a bit odd altogether

the_observer

We're on boards like hawks these days.

It is odd but what can you do.

Michellenman

How convenient for Rob..