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Jehovah Witness

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  • 30-05-2011 10:24am
    #1
    lecorbeau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭


    Advice needed :

    I live with my wife our son and gf's 2 daughters (14 and 12).

    At the weekend our 12 year old asked if she could go to church with her best friend and best friend mother, we said ok.

    12 year old came home with Jehovah Witness bible did not go to a church but stayed in best friends house where a Jehovah Witness woman came to teach the children. I nearly cracked up when I heard this and thought it was very sneaky of the best friends mother.

    I spoke with wife and said this was unacceptalbe, and I did not want my step-daughter going there for private Jehovah tutoring. My wifes reaction completely taking me by surprise.....

    "ah sure theres no harm in it, she wants to learn about God and Jesus and whats the harm" ....

    I said we are Cathloics, we can bring her to a church or educate her if she really wants to.

    The point is, does she really want to ? or wants to do it because best friend does it ?

    I told my wife I dont support this decision and I dont want them in our house.

    Yesterday the Jehovah witness woman phoned my wife and asked if she could come to our house weekly to teach our daughter (my step daughter), I immediately said NO WAY and now my wife cant understand this.

    To educate MYSELF on what this religion is, I spent hours reading about it online yesterday. Im no comfortable with this at all but my wife will not listen.

    I even got a "shes MY daughter and I will decide".

    Please give some advice,

    thanks


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    #2
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    I think that you will have better luck with this on a religion thread as more people will know about the religion.

    Mods please feel free to throw it back over if I am putting it in the wrong place.

    Thanks


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    #3
    lecorbeau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭lecorbeau


    Ok Moonbeam, but I really wanted advice from a parental point of view also.


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    #4
    JohnMarston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭JohnMarston


    I would ask the woman to come over and explain her beliefs and why she thinks she should educate your daughter . Honestly there's a lot of false info about that crowd on the internet.


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    #5
    ElleEm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    The majority of the internet sites on Jehovah's Witnesses are from past members who have a bad view of it.

    What are your major problems with it? You seem so against it.
    Home bible studies are a regular occurance with the Witnesses. I actually think that it is a more beneficial forum for a young person to question what they are being taught, instead of just taking what they are told at face value, in a big church etc.

    I'm not a Witness myself but know a fair few. The most prominent thing I notice about the religion is that they hold the bible in such high esteem, and try to live as close to the words as they can.

    There are worse things your step- daughter could be interested in. Why not nurture her need for exploration instead of the "We're Catholics, and that's the way it'll stay" attitude?


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    #6
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    lecorbeau wrote: »
    Ok Moonbeam, but I really wanted advice from a parental point of view also.

    If you do not get suitable replies here then we will move it back.

    My opinion as a parent is that kids need to be educated about other religions and their own so that when they are older that they can make informed decisions.
    I would not like them to think that there was only one and that other people are not entitled to their beliefs but would hate anyone to push religion upon them,which might happen in this situation. I would be hearing warning bells.

    Speaking as a step daughter it is better to offer to go with her to the "lessons" then tell her that she can not go.


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    #7
    deman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭deman


    JohnMarston wrote: »
    I would ask the woman to come over and explain her beliefs and why she thinks she should brainwash a minor . Honestly there's a lot of true info about that crowd on the internet.

    FYP.

    This person has chosen your stepdaughter because she is young and impressionable. Totally unethical and deceiving.


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    #8
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    There's a lot of very real info too - imo JWs are dangerous loons and I wouldn't have them anywhere near my children.

    I agree with the OP - that woman has no business interfering with your children's upbringing. That is very devious and I would have a similar reaction.

    You need to talk to your wife though and come to an agreement with her. You're laying down the law as much as she it.

    From a mod perspective - feel free to move this back to Parenting as the op wants a parent's perspective instead of a Christian only one.


    [edit]I misread the relationship - didn't spot that she's a step-daughter. That does complicate it of course.


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    #9
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,115 ✭✭✭homer911


    Tough call - your limited control over a step daughter vs your dislike for the JW teachings

    Nature abhors a vacuum - if your step daughter is interested in learning about faith, then due to her age, its up to you to either accomodate it or fill that gap yourself. What is your step-daughters previous religous experience? What sort of example have you been setting for her?


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    #10
    lecorbeau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭lecorbeau


    Our daugther wants to do this because her best friend is doing it. From her perspective its not about religion. We have a difficult time getting her to study for school exams she's not into the "studying" part.

    We have brought our daughter to church on several occassions and she sits there bored looking at her watch and asking when its finished.

    I am not happy with the best friends mother, never liked her, but she is a friend of my wife and my wife will not hear a bad word.

    I just cant believe how close minded my wife is about this, she just wont listen to me.

    Do I sit back, say nothing and see if the daughter gets bored ?
    Or do I plough in and debate this more with my wife.

    Im not comfortably leaving our daughter with this woman but I dont want her in our house.


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    #11
    lecorbeau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭lecorbeau


    homer911 wrote: »
    Tough call - your limited control over a step daughter vs your dislike for the JW teachings

    Nature abhors a vacuum - if your step daughter is interested in learning about faith, then due to her age, its up to you to either accomodate it or fill that gap yourself. What is your step-daughters previous religous experience? What sort of example have you been setting for her?


    I love both step-daughters and have always treated them like my own.

    This is the first time my wife has thrown it back in my face that Im not their real father (thats another issue that we will have to get back to).

    They dont have much of a previous religious experience to be honest.
    She has never shown any interest in religion. The sudden interest is because of this friend. If the friend jumps, she jumps


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    #12
    ElleEm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    Your step- daughter is just learning about new stuff. She's at that age where she's trying to figure out her place in the world/ what she feels etc.

    She'll probably get bored of it soon enough. Religion is pretty heavy, no matter what age you get into it! If your step- daughter gets the feeling that this is something you are against, she may well rebel and continue to do it just to p!ss you off.

    Your wife obviously has her feelings about it, and ultimately, it is her decision to make (as she has already reminded you). You've aired your concerns, so leave it at that, I reckon.


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    #13
    JohnMarston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭JohnMarston


    deman wrote: »
    FYP.

    This person has chosen your stepdaughter because she is young and impressionable. Totally unethical and deceiving.

    Thats why i suggested that the woman come over and explain herself with the parent(s) present


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    #14
    lecorbeau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭lecorbeau


    ElleEm wrote: »
    Your step- daughter is just learning about new stuff. She's at that age where she's trying to figure out her place in the world/ what she feels etc.

    She'll probably get bored of it soon enough. Religion is pretty heavy, no matter what age you get into it! If your step- daughter gets the feeling that this is something you are against, she may well rebel and continue to do it just to p!ss you off.

    Your wife obviously has her feelings about it, and ultimately, it is her decision to make (as she has already reminded you). You've aired your concerns, so leave it at that, I reckon.


    My step-daughter is very very immature. She has to be told to shower, to brush her teeth, to brush her hair, to put the dishes in the sink.

    she loves playing the Wii and swimming and dancing.

    she has NEVER showed any interest in religion, this is really not about experimenting.

    Its totally about doing what the best friend is doing.


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    #15
    lecorbeau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭lecorbeau


    JohnMarston wrote: »
    Thats why i suggested that the woman come over and explain herself with the parent(s) present

    This is going to be difficult.

    The woman doesnt speak english and communicates to my wife and step-daughter in their language, so I cant speak to her.

    I could ask my wife to translate for us but this will be difficult and I wont be able to argue my point well enough


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    #16
    Sofaspud
    Registered Users Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭Sofaspud


    I was raised Jehovah's Witness, and it really doesn't seem at all different from any other religion. If anything, it's more friendly.
    There's no difference between her as "an impressionable child" being taught the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses and you teaching her about Catholicism, so you can't hold up the double standard of "brainwashing" against one of the beliefs.

    Even if she is just doing it because her friend follows the religion, at least allow her to choose what faith she wants to follow rather than forcing your own down her throat, that's the real "brainwashing"


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    #17
    lecorbeau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭lecorbeau


    Sofaspud wrote: »
    I was raised Jehovah's Witness, and it really doesn't seem at all different from any other religion. If anything, it's more friendly.
    There's no difference between her as "an impressionable child" being taught the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses and you teaching her about Catholicism, so you can't hold up the double standard of "brainwashing" against one of the beliefs.

    Even if she is just doing it because her friend follows the religion, at least allow her to choose what faith she wants to follow rather than forcing your own down her throat, that's the real "brainwashing"

    Dont dare say I brain wash my step daughter.

    Shes 12 years old, her upbringing is our responsibility.

    We have never forced religion on her. We brought her to church christmas and easter and in between she complained every time she was bored so she didnt come.


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    #18
    rivalius13
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭rivalius13


    The best way to convince your daughter not to listen is to tell her that JWs don't do Christmas or Birthdays. That'll put her right off.


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    #19
    Sofaspud
    Registered Users Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭Sofaspud


    I didn't say you brainwashed her, I said it's unfair to try to force one religion down her throat while telling her that another is bad. That's no different to the brainwashing people claim of JWs.

    If you've never forced religion on her then why do you insist "we're catholics" without letting her choose another religion if she wishes?


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    #20
    lecorbeau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭lecorbeau


    rivalius13 wrote: »
    The best way to convince your daughter not to listen is to tell her that JWs don't do Christmas or Birthdays. That'll put her right off.

    Thanks for the advice, but I dont think that will convince her.

    My wife said only JW's who are baptised follow all the rules, but our daughter will just learn the principles of the religion


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    #21
    ElleEm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    lecorbeau wrote: »
    Dont dare say I brain wash my step daughter.

    Shes 12 years old, her upbringing is our responsibility.

    We have never forced religion on her. We brought her to church christmas and easter and in between she complained every time she was bored so she didnt come.

    So the Catholic mass bores her. She has now found something that interests her. Let her be!

    Allow her to explore different avenues of religion, it is what she wants to do. It is not dangerous and you and your wife can be a part of her learning.


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    #22
    lecorbeau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭lecorbeau


    Sofaspud wrote: »
    I didn't say you brainwashed her, I said it's unfair to try to force one religion down her throat while telling her that another is bad. That's no different to the brainwashing people claim of JWs.

    If you've never forced religion on her then why do you insist "we're catholics" without letting her choose another religion if she wishes?


    We've never forced anything on her. She was christened as a Catholic and thought the basics in school. We have brought her to church but when she said she wasnt into it, we never forced her to go back.

    Our daughter is free to choose what religion she likes.

    The part I am uncomfortable with is this woman who appears to be "recruiting".

    You are very defensive Sofaspud

    Tell me more about JW, convince me


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    #23
    Sofaspud
    Registered Users Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭Sofaspud


    I'm not a JW, I just don't think it's fair for you to criticise other branches of christianity because they're not the one you've chosen yourself.

    Although you "chose" it in the same way she "chose" it, by being "recruited" into it before you could walk, talk or make any kind of decision, through baptism. It's extremely hypocritical for you to bad mouth another religion or its members for encouraging its membership upon others, when you encourage indoctrination before the choice can be made.


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    #24
    ElleEm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    lecorbeau wrote: »
    We've never forced anything on her. She was christened as a Catholic and thought the basics in school. We have brought her to church but when she said she wasnt into it, we never forced her to go back.

    Our daughter is free to choose what religion she likes.

    The part I am uncomfortable with is this woman who appears to be "recruiting".

    You are very defensive Sofaspud

    Tell me more about JW, convince me

    It's not about recruiting- they don't get a prize for bringing in fresh meat!!!

    The JW's genuinely believe that by teaching someone about the religion, that they are doing them good. This lady is trying to teach your step- daughter about a way of life that this woman BELIEVES to be a better way of life. In essence, she is trying to help.

    Despite what the internet teaches you, there is nothing sinister going on.

    As another poster suggested, ask someone from the JWs to come and speak with you to allay your fears.


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    #25
    JohnMarston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭JohnMarston


    lecorbeau wrote: »
    We've never forced anything on her. She was christened as a Catholic and thought the basics in school. We have brought her to church but when she said she wasnt into it, we never forced her to go back.

    Our daughter is free to choose what religion she likes.

    The part I am uncomfortable with is this woman who appears to be "recruiting".

    You are very defensive Sofaspud

    Tell me more about JW, convince me

    I know a few JWs, they tell me they find their preaching very hard due to the apathy of people towards religion. They tell me they do it because they are required to as followers of Christ. Fair enough if thats what they believe. They 'recruit' as you say, because they are obligated to.


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    #26
    deman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭deman


    @sofaspud

    A friendlier religion? Is it not true that if a member of your family leaves the JW, you will completely disown that family member? Is it not true that a JW member would rather let a member of their family die rather that consent to a simple procedure to save that family member's life? If I were a member of your friendly cult, I'd have already lost my wife and daughter.


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    #27
    lecorbeau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭lecorbeau


    ElleEm wrote: »
    It's not about recruiting- they don't get a prize for bringing in fresh meat!!!

    The JW's genuinely believe that by teaching someone about the religion, that they are doing them good. This lady is trying to teach your step- daughter about a way of life that this woman BELIEVES to be a better way of life. In essence, she is trying to help.

    Despite what the internet teaches you, there is nothing sinister going on.

    As another poster suggested, ask someone from the JWs to come and speak with you to allay your fears.


    Sofaspud and ElleEm, thank you both for your comments, I take them all on board.

    I am uncomfortable with my daughter spending time with this woman not supervised by my wife or I.

    What i think I have to do is :

    Allow this woman into my home so that my wife (as she speaks the language) can supervise what goes on.

    I mean it when I say, my step-daughters and my son are free to choose what religion and whatever path they want in life. Its my job to protect them from harm along the way.

    thank you


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    #28
    Sofaspud
    Registered Users Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭Sofaspud


    deman wrote: »
    @sofaspud

    A friendlier religion? Is it not true that if a member of your family leaves the JW, you will completely disown that family member? Is it not true that a JW member would rather let a member of their family die rather that consent to a simple procedure to save that family member's life? If I were a member of your friendly cult, I'd have already lost my wife and daughter.

    As I said, I'm not a JW, I was raised that way because my dad is a JW.
    I wasn't baptised because he wanted me and all my siblings to be able to make up our own minds. We all have, none of us practice any religion, and we're still a very close-knit family.

    We even occasionally go to the big yearly meetings with my dad, to see all the people we knew as kids from these, and though I haven't been for a few years, last time I went I still got all the "wow you've gotten so tall" from everyone, and an innumerable number of handshakes from people I barely remembered. I wasn't burned at the stake once.

    The bit I find "friendlier" is that there are no priests, or "authority figures", members of the congregation get up to give the talks themselves, usually by some of the more regular speakers, known as "elders", it all feels very informal and has a generally friendly atmosphere.

    About the blood transfusions, that's once part of the religion that I strongly disagree on, but it's an important part of their faith, in that they believe that the soul / life force is carried in the blood, so if you take someone's blood you take their life force. I can see where they're coming from with that but I disagree with it because it's the one belief they have that can cause serious harm.


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    #29
    branie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭branie


    The main problem I have with Jehovah's witnesses (as many others do) is that they don't allow blood transfusions


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    #30
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    lecorbeau wrote: »
    Advice needed...

    lecorbeau, I think it might be wise to educate both of yourselves on the main tenets of JW. IMO, they deviate from the main tenets of Christianity sufficiently for them to be considered radically heterodox. In other words, they believe stuff that is not compatible with Christianity.

    This is a link to interview with a chap called Mike Felker. He talks briefly about the beliefs of JW and his various interactions with them. Perhaps your wife would be interested in listening to it.

    I think that making a positive case for your beliefs is better than making a huge issue out of this. Give your step-daughter reasons to believe but also the space make informed decisions herself.


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    #31
    problemchimp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭problemchimp


    ElleEm wrote: »
    The majority of the internet sites on Jehovah's Witnesses are from past members who have a bad view of it.

    What are your major problems with it? You seem so against it.
    Home bible studies are a regular occurance with the Witnesses. I actually think that it is a more beneficial forum for a young person to question what they are being taught, instead of just taking what they are told at face value, in a big church etc.

    I'm not a Witness myself but know a fair few. The most prominent thing I notice about the religion is that they hold the bible in such high esteem, and try to live as close to the words as they can.

    There are worse things your step- daughter could be interested in. Why not nurture her need for exploration instead of the "We're Catholics, and that's the way it'll stay" attitude?
    But surely past members of J.W. would be more informed about this religion than most, if not all on this thread. If they speak bad of it well maybe their experiences are real proof rather than just forum talk based on nothing.
    If my kids were being "educated" by others on something I believe is sinister (like all religions) well I would be a bit p!ssed off to say the least.


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