Jehovah Witness

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 9:24am #1

Advice needed :

I live with my wife our son and gf's 2 daughters (14 and 12).

At the weekend our 12 year old asked if she could go to church with her best friend and best friend mother, we said ok.

12 year old came home with Jehovah Witness bible did not go to a church but stayed in best friends house where a Jehovah Witness woman came to teach the children. I nearly cracked up when I heard this and thought it was very sneaky of the best friends mother.

I spoke with wife and said this was unacceptalbe, and I did not want my step-daughter going there for private Jehovah tutoring. My wifes reaction completely taking me by surprise.....

"ah sure theres no harm in it, she wants to learn about God and Jesus and whats the harm" ....

I said we are Cathloics, we can bring her to a church or educate her if she really wants to.

The point is, does she really want to ? or wants to do it because best friend does it ?

I told my wife I dont support this decision and I dont want them in our house.

Yesterday the Jehovah witness woman phoned my wife and asked if she could come to our house weekly to teach our daughter (my step daughter), I immediately said NO WAY and now my wife cant understand this.

To educate MYSELF on what this religion is, I spent hours reading about it online yesterday. Im no comfortable with this at all but my wife will not listen.

I even got a "shes MY daughter and I will decide".

Please give some advice,

thanks

Moonbeam · 30-05-2011 9:32am

I think that you will have better luck with this on a religion thread as more people will know about the religion.

Mods please feel free to throw it back over if I am putting it in the wrong place.

Thanks

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 9:34am

Ok Moonbeam, but I really wanted advice from a parental point of view also.

JohnMarston · 30-05-2011 9:35am

I would ask the woman to come over and explain her beliefs and why she thinks she should educate your daughter . Honestly there's a lot of false info about that crowd on the internet.

ElleEm · 30-05-2011 9:45am

The majority of the internet sites on Jehovah's Witnesses are from past members who have a bad view of it.

What are your major problems with it? You seem so against it.
Home bible studies are a regular occurance with the Witnesses. I actually think that it is a more beneficial forum for a young person to question what they are being taught, instead of just taking what they are told at face value, in a big church etc.

I'm not a Witness myself but know a fair few. The most prominent thing I notice about the religion is that they hold the bible in such high esteem, and try to live as close to the words as they can.

There are worse things your step- daughter could be interested in. Why not nurture her need for exploration instead of the "We're Catholics, and that's the way it'll stay" attitude?

Moonbeam · 30-05-2011 9:47am

lecorbeau wrote: »

Ok Moonbeam, but I really wanted advice from a parental point of view also.

If you do not get suitable replies here then we will move it back.

My opinion as a parent is that kids need to be educated about other religions and their own so that when they are older that they can make informed decisions.
I would not like them to think that there was only one and that other people are not entitled to their beliefs but would hate anyone to push religion upon them,which might happen in this situation. I would be hearing warning bells.

Speaking as a step daughter it is better to offer to go with her to the "lessons" then tell her that she can not go.

deman · 30-05-2011 9:47am

JohnMarston wrote: »

I would ask the woman to come over and explain her beliefs and why she thinks she should brainwash a minor . Honestly there's a lot of true info about that crowd on the internet.

FYP.

This person has chosen your stepdaughter because she is young and impressionable. Totally unethical and deceiving.

Orion · 30-05-2011 9:48am

There's a lot of very real info too - imo JWs are dangerous loons and I wouldn't have them anywhere near my children.

I agree with the OP - that woman has no business interfering with your children's upbringing. That is very devious and I would have a similar reaction.

You need to talk to your wife though and come to an agreement with her. You're laying down the law as much as she it.

From a mod perspective - feel free to move this back to Parenting as the op wants a parent's perspective instead of a Christian only one.

[edit]I misread the relationship - didn't spot that she's a step-daughter. That does complicate it of course.

homer911 · 30-05-2011 9:48am

Tough call - your limited control over a step daughter vs your dislike for the JW teachings

Nature abhors a vacuum - if your step daughter is interested in learning about faith, then due to her age, its up to you to either accomodate it or fill that gap yourself. What is your step-daughters previous religous experience? What sort of example have you been setting for her?

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 9:55am

Our daugther wants to do this because her best friend is doing it. From her perspective its not about religion. We have a difficult time getting her to study for school exams she's not into the "studying" part.

We have brought our daughter to church on several occassions and she sits there bored looking at her watch and asking when its finished.

I am not happy with the best friends mother, never liked her, but she is a friend of my wife and my wife will not hear a bad word.

I just cant believe how close minded my wife is about this, she just wont listen to me.

Do I sit back, say nothing and see if the daughter gets bored ?
Or do I plough in and debate this more with my wife.

Im not comfortably leaving our daughter with this woman but I dont want her in our house.

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 10:00am

homer911 wrote: »

Tough call - your limited control over a step daughter vs your dislike for the JW teachings

Nature abhors a vacuum - if your step daughter is interested in learning about faith, then due to her age, its up to you to either accomodate it or fill that gap yourself. What is your step-daughters previous religous experience? What sort of example have you been setting for her?

I love both step-daughters and have always treated them like my own.

This is the first time my wife has thrown it back in my face that Im not their real father (thats another issue that we will have to get back to).

They dont have much of a previous religious experience to be honest.
She has never shown any interest in religion. The sudden interest is because of this friend. If the friend jumps, she jumps

ElleEm · 30-05-2011 10:02am

Your step- daughter is just learning about new stuff. She's at that age where she's trying to figure out her place in the world/ what she feels etc.

She'll probably get bored of it soon enough. Religion is pretty heavy, no matter what age you get into it! If your step- daughter gets the feeling that this is something you are against, she may well rebel and continue to do it just to p!ss you off.

Your wife obviously has her feelings about it, and ultimately, it is her decision to make (as she has already reminded you). You've aired your concerns, so leave it at that, I reckon.

JohnMarston · 30-05-2011 10:06am

deman wrote: »

FYP.

This person has chosen your stepdaughter because she is young and impressionable. Totally unethical and deceiving.

Thats why i suggested that the woman come over and explain herself with the parent(s) present

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 10:06am

ElleEm wrote: »

Your step- daughter is just learning about new stuff. She's at that age where she's trying to figure out her place in the world/ what she feels etc.

She'll probably get bored of it soon enough. Religion is pretty heavy, no matter what age you get into it! If your step- daughter gets the feeling that this is something you are against, she may well rebel and continue to do it just to p!ss you off.

Your wife obviously has her feelings about it, and ultimately, it is her decision to make (as she has already reminded you). You've aired your concerns, so leave it at that, I reckon.

My step-daughter is very very immature. She has to be told to shower, to brush her teeth, to brush her hair, to put the dishes in the sink.

she loves playing the Wii and swimming and dancing.

she has NEVER showed any interest in religion, this is really not about experimenting.

Its totally about doing what the best friend is doing.

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 10:07am

JohnMarston wrote: »

Thats why i suggested that the woman come over and explain herself with the parent(s) present

This is going to be difficult.

The woman doesnt speak english and communicates to my wife and step-daughter in their language, so I cant speak to her.

I could ask my wife to translate for us but this will be difficult and I wont be able to argue my point well enough

Sofaspud · 30-05-2011 10:17am

I was raised Jehovah's Witness, and it really doesn't seem at all different from any other religion. If anything, it's more friendly.
There's no difference between her as "an impressionable child" being taught the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses and you teaching her about Catholicism, so you can't hold up the double standard of "brainwashing" against one of the beliefs.

Even if she is just doing it because her friend follows the religion, at least allow her to choose what faith she wants to follow rather than forcing your own down her throat, that's the real "brainwashing"

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 10:23am

Sofaspud wrote: »

I was raised Jehovah's Witness, and it really doesn't seem at all different from any other religion. If anything, it's more friendly.
There's no difference between her as "an impressionable child" being taught the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses and you teaching her about Catholicism, so you can't hold up the double standard of "brainwashing" against one of the beliefs.

Even if she is just doing it because her friend follows the religion, at least allow her to choose what faith she wants to follow rather than forcing your own down her throat, that's the real "brainwashing"

Dont dare say I brain wash my step daughter.

Shes 12 years old, her upbringing is our responsibility.

We have never forced religion on her. We brought her to church christmas and easter and in between she complained every time she was bored so she didnt come.

rivalius13 · 30-05-2011 10:25am

The best way to convince your daughter not to listen is to tell her that JWs don't do Christmas or Birthdays. That'll put her right off.

Sofaspud · 30-05-2011 10:28am

I didn't say you brainwashed her, I said it's unfair to try to force one religion down her throat while telling her that another is bad. That's no different to the brainwashing people claim of JWs.

If you've never forced religion on her then why do you insist "we're catholics" without letting her choose another religion if she wishes?

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 10:28am

rivalius13 wrote: »

The best way to convince your daughter not to listen is to tell her that JWs don't do Christmas or Birthdays. That'll put her right off.

Thanks for the advice, but I dont think that will convince her.

My wife said only JW's who are baptised follow all the rules, but our daughter will just learn the principles of the religion

ElleEm · 30-05-2011 10:31am

lecorbeau wrote: »

Dont dare say I brain wash my step daughter.

Shes 12 years old, her upbringing is our responsibility.

We have never forced religion on her. We brought her to church christmas and easter and in between she complained every time she was bored so she didnt come.

So the Catholic mass bores her. She has now found something that interests her. Let her be!

Allow her to explore different avenues of religion, it is what she wants to do. It is not dangerous and you and your wife can be a part of her learning.

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 10:34am

Sofaspud wrote: »

I didn't say you brainwashed her, I said it's unfair to try to force one religion down her throat while telling her that another is bad. That's no different to the brainwashing people claim of JWs.

If you've never forced religion on her then why do you insist "we're catholics" without letting her choose another religion if she wishes?

We've never forced anything on her. She was christened as a Catholic and thought the basics in school. We have brought her to church but when she said she wasnt into it, we never forced her to go back.

Our daughter is free to choose what religion she likes.

The part I am uncomfortable with is this woman who appears to be "recruiting".

You are very defensive Sofaspud

Tell me more about JW, convince me

Sofaspud · 30-05-2011 10:39am

I'm not a JW, I just don't think it's fair for you to criticise other branches of christianity because they're not the one you've chosen yourself.

Although you "chose" it in the same way she "chose" it, by being "recruited" into it before you could walk, talk or make any kind of decision, through baptism. It's extremely hypocritical for you to bad mouth another religion or its members for encouraging its membership upon others, when you encourage indoctrination before the choice can be made.

ElleEm · 30-05-2011 10:39am

lecorbeau wrote: »

We've never forced anything on her. She was christened as a Catholic and thought the basics in school. We have brought her to church but when she said she wasnt into it, we never forced her to go back.

Our daughter is free to choose what religion she likes.

The part I am uncomfortable with is this woman who appears to be "recruiting".

You are very defensive Sofaspud

Tell me more about JW, convince me

It's not about recruiting- they don't get a prize for bringing in fresh meat!!!

The JW's genuinely believe that by teaching someone about the religion, that they are doing them good. This lady is trying to teach your step- daughter about a way of life that this woman BELIEVES to be a better way of life. In essence, she is trying to help.

Despite what the internet teaches you, there is nothing sinister going on.

As another poster suggested, ask someone from the JWs to come and speak with you to allay your fears.

JohnMarston · 30-05-2011 10:42am

lecorbeau wrote: »

We've never forced anything on her. She was christened as a Catholic and thought the basics in school. We have brought her to church but when she said she wasnt into it, we never forced her to go back.

Our daughter is free to choose what religion she likes.

The part I am uncomfortable with is this woman who appears to be "recruiting".

You are very defensive Sofaspud

Tell me more about JW, convince me

I know a few JWs, they tell me they find their preaching very hard due to the apathy of people towards religion. They tell me they do it because they are required to as followers of Christ. Fair enough if thats what they believe. They 'recruit' as you say, because they are obligated to.

deman · 30-05-2011 10:42am

@sofaspud

A friendlier religion? Is it not true that if a member of your family leaves the JW, you will completely disown that family member? Is it not true that a JW member would rather let a member of their family die rather that consent to a simple procedure to save that family member's life? If I were a member of your friendly cult, I'd have already lost my wife and daughter.

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 10:43am

ElleEm wrote: »

It's not about recruiting- they don't get a prize for bringing in fresh meat!!!

The JW's genuinely believe that by teaching someone about the religion, that they are doing them good. This lady is trying to teach your step- daughter about a way of life that this woman BELIEVES to be a better way of life. In essence, she is trying to help.

Despite what the internet teaches you, there is nothing sinister going on.

As another poster suggested, ask someone from the JWs to come and speak with you to allay your fears.

Sofaspud and ElleEm, thank you both for your comments, I take them all on board.

I am uncomfortable with my daughter spending time with this woman not supervised by my wife or I.

What i think I have to do is :

Allow this woman into my home so that my wife (as she speaks the language) can supervise what goes on.

I mean it when I say, my step-daughters and my son are free to choose what religion and whatever path they want in life. Its my job to protect them from harm along the way.

thank you

Sofaspud · 30-05-2011 10:52am

deman wrote: »

@sofaspud

A friendlier religion? Is it not true that if a member of your family leaves the JW, you will completely disown that family member? Is it not true that a JW member would rather let a member of their family die rather that consent to a simple procedure to save that family member's life? If I were a member of your friendly cult, I'd have already lost my wife and daughter.

As I said, I'm not a JW, I was raised that way because my dad is a JW.
I wasn't baptised because he wanted me and all my siblings to be able to make up our own minds. We all have, none of us practice any religion, and we're still a very close-knit family.

We even occasionally go to the big yearly meetings with my dad, to see all the people we knew as kids from these, and though I haven't been for a few years, last time I went I still got all the "wow you've gotten so tall" from everyone, and an innumerable number of handshakes from people I barely remembered. I wasn't burned at the stake once.

The bit I find "friendlier" is that there are no priests, or "authority figures", members of the congregation get up to give the talks themselves, usually by some of the more regular speakers, known as "elders", it all feels very informal and has a generally friendly atmosphere.

About the blood transfusions, that's once part of the religion that I strongly disagree on, but it's an important part of their faith, in that they believe that the soul / life force is carried in the blood, so if you take someone's blood you take their life force. I can see where they're coming from with that but I disagree with it because it's the one belief they have that can cause serious harm.

branie · 30-05-2011 10:59am

The main problem I have with Jehovah's witnesses (as many others do) is that they don't allow blood transfusions

Fanny Cradock · 30-05-2011 10:59am

lecorbeau wrote: »

Advice needed...

lecorbeau, I think it might be wise to educate both of yourselves on the main tenets of JW. IMO, they deviate from the main tenets of Christianity sufficiently for them to be considered radically heterodox. In other words, they believe stuff that is not compatible with Christianity.

This is a link to interview with a chap called Mike Felker. He talks briefly about the beliefs of JW and his various interactions with them. Perhaps your wife would be interested in listening to it.

I think that making a positive case for your beliefs is better than making a huge issue out of this. Give your step-daughter reasons to believe but also the space make informed decisions herself.

problemchimp · 30-05-2011 11:17am

ElleEm wrote: »

The majority of the internet sites on Jehovah's Witnesses are from past members who have a bad view of it.

What are your major problems with it? You seem so against it.
Home bible studies are a regular occurance with the Witnesses. I actually think that it is a more beneficial forum for a young person to question what they are being taught, instead of just taking what they are told at face value, in a big church etc.

I'm not a Witness myself but know a fair few. The most prominent thing I notice about the religion is that they hold the bible in such high esteem, and try to live as close to the words as they can.

There are worse things your step- daughter could be interested in. Why not nurture her need for exploration instead of the "We're Catholics, and that's the way it'll stay" attitude?

But surely past members of J.W. would be more informed about this religion than most, if not all on this thread. If they speak bad of it well maybe their experiences are real proof rather than just forum talk based on nothing.
If my kids were being "educated" by others on something I believe is sinister (like all religions) well I would be a bit p!ssed off to say the least.

JohnMarston · 30-05-2011 11:22am

problemchimp wrote: »

But surely past members of J.W. would be more informed about this religion than most, if not all on this thread. If they speak bad of it well maybe their experiences are real proof rather than just forum talk based on nothing.

Not necessarily. You would have to know the reasons why they left the religion, the real reason.

problemchimp · 30-05-2011 12:27pm

JohnMarston wrote: »

Not necessarily. You would have to know the reasons why they left the religion, the real reason.

Yes, true. But would it not be fair to say the reason the majority of them have left is because they have some problem with their religion, therefore their views on this are more valid because of their experiences rather than the views of people who have no direct experience. The reason I initially posted is because ElleEm dismissed their views as just some ex-J.W.s who have a bit of a gripe. Like I said, I would be extremely p!ssed off if someone was trying to "educate" my kids on any religion in a sneaky kind of way.It's not just about the religion but about the way it was done.

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 12:27pm

thank you to all for your comments.

I suppose putting the religious aspect aside, can any parent out there give me their opinion and how they might react in the same situation

thanks

problemchimp · 30-05-2011 12:40pm

lecorbeau wrote: »

thank you to all for your comments.

I suppose putting the religious aspect aside, can any parent out there give me their opinion and how they might react in the same situation

thanks

Really the only way to resolve this is to try to communicate better with your partner and if that means inviting her friend over to talk then you will have to do that. I know you said there is a language problem, but you will just have to deal with that as best as you can, like you would in other situations. Don't expect things to be resolved after one meeting, it may take time. Arguments with your partner in front of your daughter will not help things, no more than arguments with your daughter. Hopefully the fact that your daughter is 12 means her interest will pass.

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 12:50pm

problemchimp wrote: »

Really the only way to resolve this is to try to communicate better with your partner and if that means inviting her friend over to talk then you will have to do that. I know you said there is a language problem, but you will just have to deal with that as best as you can, like you would in other situations. Don't expect things to be resolved after one meeting, it may take time. Arguments with your partner in front of your daughter will not help things, no more than arguments with your daughter. Hopefully the fact that your daughter is 12 means her interest will pass.

The friend of my wife is not JW. A JW woman comes to her house to teach her 2 children.

Its true I have to communicate better at home. I want to present the facts to my wife but she has said its her decision as its her child.

I think our daughter will soon realize that 2 hours in prayer meeting is 2 less hours on the Wii. She has no interest in religion, its all to be with friend and do as friend does

homer911 · 30-05-2011 1:12pm

It sounds like your daughter has little to compare the JW beliefs to

12 year olds are very impressionable, but also tend to still talk to their parents...

Have you talked to her about these sessions and her reaction to them?

Have you explained to her why you consider yourselves Catholic?

If she is insistent on continuing with this, have you tried balancing this "education" with Catholic or non-denominational experiences suitable for children her age?

Its probably a bit late in the season for christian youth clubs, but how about a christian children's camp run by an organisation you would trust?

At the end of the day, your daughter's faith has to be her decision. It's a Christian parent's responsibility to steer that walk of faith. I'm a parent of three teenagers, the youngest is 13. My wife and I have lived our faith since we were their age and younger, and do our best to guide and direct our children to their own faith - through church, christian youth clubs, bible studies, Christian Union, inter denominational Youth camps (teenstreet, scripture union etc.), or specific denominational camps. Even if your daugher is not "interested in religon" right now, she may well be any time soon, and children tend to learn by example, so perhaps its a good time to review your own faith?

Also remember that kids like to rebel - if you say she cant do something, she may well want to do it more!

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 1:16pm

homer911 wrote: »

It sounds like your daughter has little to compare the JW beliefs to

12 year olds are very impressionable, but also tend to still talk to their parents...

Have you talked to her about these sessions and her reaction to them?

Have you explained to her why you consider yourselves Catholic?

If she is insistent on continuing with this, have you tried balancing this "education" with Catholic or non-denominational experiences suitable for children her age?

Its probably a bit late in the season for christian youth clubs, but how about a christian children's camp run by an organisation you would trust?

At the end of the day, your daughter's faith has to be her decision. It's a Christian parent's responsibility to steer that walk of faith. I'm a parent of three teenagers, the youngest is 13. My wife and I have lived our faith since we were their age and younger, and do our best to guide and direct our children to their own faith - through church, christian youth clubs, bible studies, Christian Union, inter denominational Youth camps (teenstreet, scripture union etc.), or specific denominational camps. Even if your daugher is not "interested in religon" right now, she may well be any time soon, and children tend to learn by example, so perhaps its a good time to review your own faith?

Also remember that kids like to rebel - if you say she cant do something, she may well want to do it more!

For our daughter, this really has nothing to do with religion. Its all about doing what the friend does, it really is.

If the friend painted her face blue, our daughter would do the same.

My wife thinks its all harmless, Im more cynical of this womans intentions.

Txatxu Urki · 30-05-2011 1:31pm

It is very important in a situation like this to do some research into this religion / organisation to help you allay your fears. It is true that there is a huge number of anti or critical websites aimed at the Watchtower. These sites are invariably run by ex-witnesses who have left, or who have been disfellowshipped. It is next to impossible to get a completely unbiased and fully truthful answer to your dilemna...
However what I would think about doing is contacting a representative of the organisation and ask some well thought out questions..ergo...
Are JWs permitted to attend mass/services in other churches at any time, including weddings/baptisms etc..
Are JWs permitted to join social groups/sporting teams or clubs of non JWs
Will JWs in time be encouraged to shun non JW members of his/her own family
There are many more, these are just a few. Any JW rep. should be happy to help you out with these.
These are critical questions you need to ask, please also be careful that they do not try and foggy the air with biblical quotations. Demand answers in plain and unaldultrated English.
If you are satisfied with your feedback and you feel it is genuine, you may be more comfortable with the situation...hope this helps.

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 1:35pm

Txatxu Urki wrote: »

It is very important in a situation like this to do some research into this religion / organisation to help you allay your fears. It is true that there is a huge number of anti or critical websites aimed at the Watchtower. These sites are invariably run by ex-witnesses who have left, or who have been disfellowshipped. It is next to impossible to get a completely unbiased and fully truthful answer to your dilemna...
However what I would think about doing is contacting a representative of the organisation and ask some well thought out questions..ergo...
Are JWs permitted to attend mass/services in other churches at any time, including weddings/baptisms etc..
Are JWs permitted to join social groups/sporting teams or clubs of non JWs
Will JWs in time be encouraged to shun non JW members of his/her own family
There are many more, these are just a few. Any JW rep. should be happy to help you out with these.
These are critical questions you need to ask, please also be careful that they do not try and foggy the air with biblical quotations. Demand answers in plain and unaldultrated English.
If you are satisfied with your feedback and you feel it is genuine, you may be more comfortable with the situation...hope this helps.

Thank you so much, these are exactly the type of questions we need to be asking.

Can anyone else help out with more questions ?

My wife thinks its harmless if shes not baptized, but the friend is baptized and thats why I fear it could happen also to our daughter.

Something else just popped into my mind.

Last week there was a birthday party for a girl in our daughters class. All the class attended EXCEPT our daughters friend. The excuse given was that "friend" misbehaved and was grounded. Now it makes sense !! its because they are JW !!

escapethematrix · 30-05-2011 1:43pm

OP: I was raised as a JW and was in the "truth" the phrase they use to describe the religion for 25 years. I served as a minister in a local congregation for around 5 years before I woke up to the reality...

A couple of things you should know. JWs appear very nice, helpful, friendly but this friendship has strings attached. They are actively trying to convert your wife and step daughter. They genuinely believe that they are carrying out gods preaching work and the one and only true religion and the only way to know god. Everyone else is destined to die in Armagedon, everyone... apart from JWs.

The faith of JWs may appear to be similar to that of Christianity but there are massive differences between mainstream religion and this cult. When I was a JW I would laugh when people said "That religion divides families" but coming from a family where my immediate + extended family are JWs I can say without a doubt it split my family right down the centre. I went as far as shunning my own brother because he left the organization. (This action is actively promoted by the elders/priests and endorsed by the organization)

I would recommend you take the following approach.

Do not tell your partner that its wrong, cult, evil etc. etc. the way she is reacting, this approach will push her further towards it. Instead embrace the idea, but say that you want to look in the religion because you care about them both...

The internet is full of good reasons why you shouldn't ever become involved with this group. There have been many many child abuse cover ups http://www.silentlambs.org/ . Along with that the blood policy that JWs adopt has killed many many young ones.

escapethematrix · 30-05-2011 1:58pm

lecorbeau wrote: »

Thank you so much, these are exactly the type of questions we need to be asking.

Can anyone else help out with more questions ?

My wife thinks its harmless if shes not baptized, but the friend is baptized and thats why I fear it could happen also to our daughter.

Something else just popped into my mind.

Last week there was a birthday party for a girl in our daughters class. All the class attended EXCEPT our daughters friend. The excuse given was that "friend" misbehaved and was grounded. Now it makes sense !! its because they are JW !!

You are in a difficult place because if your wife asks some of the questions suggested the publisher will probably ask "Have you been talking to someoen who opposes the work of JWS?", one of the first things JWs will mention is that family members can be used by Satan to distract and to stop you from studying with them (I believe that is actually mentioned in teh study material).

I think you are better investigating offline without having the JW there...

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 2:00pm

escapethematrix wrote: »

OP: I was raised as a JW and was in the "truth" the phrase they use to describe the religion for 25 years. I served as a minister in a local congregation for around 5 years before I woke up to the reality...

A couple of things you should know. JWs appear very nice, helpful, friendly but this friendship has strings attached. They are actively trying to convert your wife and step daughter. They genuinely believe that they are carrying out gods preaching work and the one and only true religion and the only way to know god. Everyone else is destined to die in Armagedon, everyone... apart from JWs.

The faith of JWs may appear to be similar to that of Christianity but there are massive differences between mainstream religion and this cult. When I was a JW I would laugh when people said "That religion divides families" but coming from a family where my immediate + extended family are JWs I can say without a doubt it split my family right down the centre. I went as far as shunning my own brother because he left the organization. (This action is actively promoted by the elders/priests and endorsed by the organization)

I would recommend you take the following approach.

Do not tell your partner that its wrong, cult, evil etc. etc. the way she is reacting, this approach will push her further towards it. Instead embrace the idea, but say that you want to look in the religion because you care about them both...

The internet is full of good reasons why you shouldn't ever become involved with this group. There have been many many child abuse cover ups http://www.silentlambs.org/ . Along with that the blood policy that JWs adopt has killed many many young ones.

Thank you so much for posting. May I ask why you left ?

I thought I was paranoid thinking she is going to recruit my wife next, but thank you for also thinking or knowing.

Im reading alot about this today and I am uncomfortable

Sleepy · 30-05-2011 2:04pm

Make sure you counteract the lessons so... Ask her what the lady taught her and make fun of the bits you find objectionable with your daughter. It doesn't have to be done in a mean way but "that's a bit silly, isn't it?" and examining the religion with her could help her to see it as what it can best be: a chance to see what some people convince themselves is true.

problemchimp · 30-05-2011 2:51pm

escapethematrix wrote: »

OP: I was raised as a JW and was in the "truth" the phrase they use to describe the religion for 25 years. I served as a minister in a local congregation for around 5 years before I woke up to the reality...

A couple of things you should know. JWs appear very nice, helpful, friendly but this friendship has strings attached. They are actively trying to convert your wife and step daughter. They genuinely believe that they are carrying out gods preaching work and the one and only true religion and the only way to know god. Everyone else is destined to die in Armagedon, everyone... apart from JWs.

The faith of JWs may appear to be similar to that of Christianity but there are massive differences between mainstream religion and this cult. When I was a JW I would laugh when people said "That religion divides families" but coming from a family where my immediate + extended family are JWs I can say without a doubt it split my family right down the centre. I went as far as shunning my own brother because he left the organization. (This action is actively promoted by the elders/priests and endorsed by the organization)

I would recommend you take the following approach.

Do not tell your partner that its wrong, cult, evil etc. etc. the way she is reacting, this approach will push her further towards it. Instead embrace the idea, but say that you want to look in the religion because you care about them both...

The internet is full of good reasons why you shouldn't ever become involved with this group. There have been many many child abuse cover ups http://www.silentlambs.org/ . Along with that the blood policy that JWs adopt has killed many many young ones.

I think other posters dismissing people who left J.W.s as people with a gripe should consider what they are saying as it could be harmful. There is a lot to be said for experience as escapethematrix has pointed out.

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 2:57pm

problemchimp wrote: »

I think other posters dismissing people who left J.W.s as people with a gripe should consider what they are saying as it could be harmful. There is a lot to be said for experience as escapethematrix has pointed out.

thank you, I agree.

My concerns are as a step-parent who loves his step-daughter and who wants to protect her. I trust my instincts are there is something not right about this.

Our daughters friend cannot go to parties, she cannot have a facebook, they didnt celebrate christmas.

I need to be more clever and step back a bit. My wife and daughter will realise, but my wife and I need to educate ourselves on this first

threeleggedhors · 30-05-2011 3:06pm

Test your wife's resolve. Bring home a Rabbi and an Imam to teach your her more religions, let's see how tolerant she really is ....

escapethematrix · 30-05-2011 3:08pm

lecorbeau wrote: »

Thank you so much for posting. May I ask why you left ?

I thought I was paranoid thinking she is going to recruit my wife next, but thank you for also thinking or knowing.

Im reading alot about this today and I am uncomfortable

I think its important for people to know just how things are controlled when you are a JW. JW's have to report their time and statistics every month. Each publisher (regardless of baptized or not) puts down how many magazines, hours and return visits (when you call back to someone you have left mags with), bible studies. JWs seek to convert as many return visits into bible studies and then get these ones coming to meetings. These figures are collected and sent to HQ. A Circuit overseer (a guy from HQ) will come a couple of times a year and review these, your performance is based on these numbers. If you are not keeping the average (when I left it was around 8-10 hours a month), you will get a visit to be "encouraged". Each meeting the attendance numbers are kept, these are sent to HQ as well.

A new one (frist time in KH) will experience love bombing. Everyone seems so interested in this person, asking questions, friendly etc. For many this is really appealing and it feels like everyone is so loving. The kids are well behaved, dressed well, they don't curse. From and outside perspective it looks really good. It doesn't seem like a cult/high control group... However the following will be controlled indirectly/directly more and more:

1) Family ties - If you have anyone who is opposing your being a witness you will be advised to not spend time with them
2) Entertainment - Your children will be actively discouraged from taking part in any outside school activities, soccer training, dancing etc. as a kid growing up I never got to do any of these things.
3) Education - As a JW kid you will be encouraged to not seek third level education but instead devote yourself entirely to "gods work". Full time preaching or part time, supported with a sh1tty job that will get you nowhere.
4) Meeting attendence - You will be expected to attend all meetings, there is no valid excuse other than being ill for not attending. i.e. its not valid reason to say "I have a family day out and can't make it..." (Interesting read http://www.seanet.com/~raines/mental.html )
5) Field Service (Preaching) - As a publisher you must report your time every month. If you do not you will become "irregular". You will be targetted by the loving shepherds (elders) who will bully you into returning. (making you feel guilty etc).
6) Faithful and discrete slave - This is the group of men in NY who decide all of Watchtower beliefs. You must agree with everything they say. You are not able to disagree with anything, this is even if you believe it contradicts the bible or even your conscience.
7) No research - You will be actively discouraged from researching anything, doctrinal etc. The watchtower has done all the work for you and you need to leave your brain at the door and accept all because it's likely you are not able to understand these things and will confuse yourself (or you could find out majority of teachings are bogus)
8) Friendships - You are actively discouraged from having friends who are not in the "truth". Everyone who is in the "world" cannot be trusted, they are part of satans system and will mislead you. JWs have propaghanda made especially for young ones that paint all youths outside the org as being only interested in sex / drugs / cigaretes etc.
9) Celebrations (what celebrations??) - You cannot celebrate, birthdays, christmas, easter, halloween, new years etc etc. The only thing you can celebrate is weddings + anniversaries.

While I am not disfellowshipped (when you are forcefully removed by congregation)/disassociated (when you decide its not right and leave), I am classed as inactive, I have not put a report in for years now. I made it clear to the elders they were not welcome in my house in the capacity of "spiritual men". If I decide to disassociate the remaining members of my family will no longer be able to talk to me... I dont want to put them in that position. The mind control is very strong. For anyone who says they aren't really your family if they do things like that, you don't know what it's like,, it's put like "Are you loyal to God or loyal to man?"

I left because I started to research the blood policy. It's another thread in itself but it became apparent it was nonsense and hypocritcal. I started to dwell on the hundreds/thousands of JWs that had died because of this belief. The more I investigated the less sense it made. This was the start for me. Since that point the whole belief system collapsed, fundamental doctrines can be pulled apart very easily.

lecorbeau · 30-05-2011 3:15pm

escapethematrix wrote: »

I think its important for people to know just how things are controlled when you are a JW. JW's have to report their time and statistics every month. Each publisher (regardless of baptized or not) puts down how many magazines, hours and return visits (when you call back to someone you have left mags with), bible studies. JWs seek to convert as many return visits into bible studies and then get these ones coming to meetings. These figures are collected and sent to HQ. A Circuit overseer (a guy from HQ) will come a couple of times a year and review these, your performance is based on these numbers. If you are not keeping the average (when I left it was around 8-10 hours a month), you will get a visit to be "encouraged". Each meeting the attendance numbers are kept, these are sent to HQ as well.

A new one (frist time in KH) will experience love bombing. Everyone seems so interested in this person, asking questions, friendly etc. For many this is really appealing and it feels like everyone is so loving. The kids are well behaved, dressed well, they don't curse. From and outside perspective it looks really good. It doesn't seem like a cult/high control group... However the following will be controlled indirectly/directly more and more:

1) Family ties - If you have anyone who is opposing your being a witness you will be advised to not spend time with them
2) Entertainment - Your children will be actively discouraged from taking part in any outside school activities, soccer training, dancing etc. as a kid growing up I never got to do any of these things.
3) Education - As a JW kid you will be encouraged to not seek third level education but instead devote yourself entirely to "gods work". Full time preaching or part time, supported with a sh1tty job that will get you nowhere.
4) Meeting attendence - You will be expected to attend all meetings, there is no valid excuse other than being ill for not attending. i.e. its not valid reason to say "I have a family day out and can't make it..." (Interesting read http://www.seanet.com/~raines/mental.html )
5) Field Service (Preaching) - As a publisher you must report your time every month. If you do not you will become "irregular". You will be targetted by the loving shepherds (elders) who will bully you into returning. (making you feel guilty etc).
6) Faithful and discrete slave - This is the group of men in NY who decide all of Watchtower beliefs. You must agree with everything they say. You are not able to disagree with anything, this is even if you believe it contradicts the bible or even your conscience.
7) No research - You will be actively discouraged from researching anything, doctrinal etc. The watchtower has done all the work for you and you need to leave your brain at the door and accept all because it's likely you are not able to understand these things and will confuse yourself (or you could find out majority of teachings are bogus)
8) Friendships - You are actively discouraged from having friends who are not in the "truth". Everyone who is in the "world" cannot be trusted, they are part of satans system and will mislead you. JWs have propaghanda made especially for young ones that paint all youths outside the org as being only interested in sex / drugs / cigaretes etc.
9) Celebrations (what celebrations??) - You cannot celebrate, birthdays, christmas, easter, halloween, new years etc etc. The only thing you can celebrate is weddings + anniversaries.

While I am not disfellowshipped (when you are forcefully removed by congregation)/disassociated (when you decide its not right and leave), I am classed as inactive, I have not put a report in for years now. I made it clear to the elders they were not welcome in my house in the capacity of "spiritual men". If I decide to disassociate the remaining members of my family will no longer be able to talk to me... I dont want to put them in that position. The mind control is very strong. For anyone who says they aren't really your family if they do things like that, you don't know what it's like,, it's put like "Are you loyal to God or loyal to man?"

I left because I started to research the blood policy. It's another thread in itself but it became apparent it was nonsense and hypocritcal. I started to dwell on the hundreds/thousands of JWs that had died because of this belief. The more I investigated the less sense it made. This was the start for me. Since that point the whole belief system collapsed, fundamental doctrines can be pulled apart very easily.

Thank you thank you thank you.

Now I'm very concerned but also a little more educated.

I am going to show my wife this entire thread tonight.

Onesimus · 30-05-2011 3:20pm

lecorbeau wrote: »

Advice needed :

I live with my wife our son and gf's 2 daughters (14 and 12).

At the weekend our 12 year old asked if she could go to church with her best friend and best friend mother, we said ok.

12 year old came home with Jehovah Witness bible did not go to a church but stayed in best friends house where a Jehovah Witness woman came to teach the children. I nearly cracked up when I heard this and thought it was very sneaky of the best friends mother.

I spoke with wife and said this was unacceptalbe, and I did not want my step-daughter going there for private Jehovah tutoring. My wifes reaction completely taking me by surprise.....

"ah sure theres no harm in it, she wants to learn about God and Jesus and whats the harm" ....

I said we are Cathloics, we can bring her to a church or educate her if she really wants to.

The point is, does she really want to ? or wants to do it because best friend does it ?

I told my wife I dont support this decision and I dont want them in our house.

Yesterday the Jehovah witness woman phoned my wife and asked if she could come to our house weekly to teach our daughter (my step daughter), I immediately said NO WAY and now my wife cant understand this.

To educate MYSELF on what this religion is, I spent hours reading about it online yesterday. Im no comfortable with this at all but my wife will not listen.

I even got a "shes MY daughter and I will decide".

Please give some advice,

thanks

You must put an end to it immediately. Your daughter is Catholic not Jehovah which is a made up religion of yet another crazy dude from America. Jehovas can be very very aggressive and pushy with their religion. I had a woman put her foot in the door when I went to close it after saying ''no thanks''. This is how pushy they are.

It is a cult religion and not authentic Christianity. Your wife should be putting her childs Catholic education first ( since this is the vow you both take to raise your children Catholic ) and not be putting her ''best friends'' feelings first.

Your wife is just afraid of hurting her best friends feelings, but who comes first ....your child and his/her future... or... some best friend who is pushing his/her beliefs into your house and her ''feelings''?

get on your man cap and take a stand in the household, but do so as clever as you can about it and as gentle as you can be.

Onesimus

JimiTime · 30-05-2011 3:23pm

Much of the danger is not in the explicit but with the implicit regarding JW's. A lot of the things that people say they 'actively promote', well they don't really actively promote. For example, if someone disassociates themselves (basically leaves), then they are not officially shunned, like someone who is disfellowshipped is. So if you ask an elder about this, they may say, 'no, no, thats not what happens', however, implicitly it is encouraged.

Like any successful brainwashing, subtlety is key. Having people feel like they have arrived at a conclusion themselves. Lets face it, people who are brainwashed, are never going to say, 'yeah, I'm being brainwashed'. It would defeat the purpose wouldn't it?!:)

Make no mistake, like in all walks of life, you'll have nice people and not so nice people that are JW's. They don't bleed acid, and they don't seek to take your children away into the night. BUT, the religion IS dangerous. Just remember, its the implicit more than the explicit thats the big issue from a controlling perspective.

There is enough evidence also to show the organisation up to be false too though. Look up the JW's end of world predictions. Things like the end will come before the last of the generation of the governing body that were there in 1914 dies. Then they revise it, and hold this revision up as a victory of honesty, a 'see, we are not afraid to admit we're wrong in our quest for truth' etc. Which of course is admirable, unless you are claiming to be Gods 'faithful and discreet slave, giving food at the proper time' etc. Don't be fooled, false prophets will always scramble and spin there way out of failed 'prophecy'. Those who have been programmed to have faith in the organisation usually accept their spin too.

I second the recommendation about not being aggressively opposed, but if you can point out some of the dangers of this group, without hysteria, it would probably be effective. From the parenting point of view, it sounds like you should talk to your wife openly about how you feel in relation to her attitude towards your input in the rearing of your step children. Good communication cannot be emphasised enough.

Hope it all goes well OP.

Jehovah Witness

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