How to Use A Roundabout

smokie2008 · 30-01-2011 7:35pm

I've literally just had 6 two hour Lessons AND a driving Test in a Jeep and Trailer and passed no problem going through a roundabout Similar to this one in Naas and I can say 100% its the LEFT lane you should stay in.

corktina · 30-01-2011 7:49pm

In this example, the second exit is the equivalent of the third or subsequent as it after striaght on....try to think of it as if exit two is missing, that should sort out some of your confused and dangerous little heads. Quite an eye opener this thread...i hope Gaybo reads it!

Hammer Archer · 30-01-2011 7:51pm

complicit wrote: »

A lot of drivers will take the right lane and then stay there right up until they enter the exit which is wholly incorrect . When two lanes merge into one , the left hand lane ( driving lane ) has priority .

So basically, using your interpretation, even if a driver is taking the third exit on this roundabout (at 4 o'clock position) they should be using the left lane as two lanes merge into one in that case also. This would mean the right lane on the approach to the roundabout would be made redundant.

smokie2008 wrote: »

I've literally just had 6 two hour Lessons AND a driving Test in a Jeep and Trailer and passed no problem going through a roundabout Similar to this one in Naas and I can say 100% its the LEFT lane you should stay in.

Which roundabout as a matter of interest?

complicit · 30-01-2011 7:59pm

Hammer Archer wrote: »

So basically, using your interpretation, even if a driver is taking the third exit on this roundabout (at 4 o'clock position) they should be using the left lane as two lanes merge into one in that case also. This would mean the right lane on the approach to the roundabout would be made redundant.

Eh No . If they are taking the third exit , they will enter the roundabout in the right hand lane . But if the third exit has only one lane , they will need to give priority to any traffic in the left hand lane when exiting .

But the OP was talking about the SECOND exit .

GTE · 30-01-2011 8:21pm

It is a poor layout to begin with.

The left hand lane should have arrows to stop people using it for the second exit. That would let people approach for the second exit in the right hand lane safely and let people from other exits join onto that main road on the right hand lane safely.

In theory anyway. The signs are so important for that.

In an Irish roads context when there are no arrow markings you should be using the left lane for exit one and two and the right lane for anything after.

Tis my understanding and to me it's not difficult to work out.
I hope I'm right

EDIT:
Reading this again I find the argument that a driver should take a certain lane because the exit is after 12 o clock utter nonsense.
Lanes on roundabouts are judged by what exit you want to take, not where that exit lays in relation to a clock system.

jaffa20 · 30-01-2011 8:28pm

complicit wrote: »

Eh No . If they are taking the third exit , they will enter the roundabout in the right hand lane . But if the third exit has only one lane , they will need to give priority to any traffic in the left hand lane when exiting .

But the OP was talking about the SECOND exit .

2nd or 3rd exit, you are contradicting your initial point of taking the left lane for the 2nd exit.

You take the right lane for this exit as it is past 12pm.

People shouldn't be to the left of you as they will be giving right of way to you when you are on roundabout so you should be ahead of them by the time you take the 2nd exit or 3rd..

niamhocxox · 30-01-2011 8:33pm

I'm completely gobsmacked at the poll results but on the other hand it explains why there are so many accidents on roundabouts. :rolleyes:

In my opinion its the right hand lane that shound be taken, its crystal clear in the sign approaching this roundabout that the exit is past 12, why would you take the left hand lane? :eek:

Would the people who say that the left hand lane is correct please give a good explanation as to how they have come to that conclusion?

BostonB · 30-01-2011 8:34pm

The RSA are clear about it. But I don't agree with it. Its just confusing to be in the left lane when taking the 2nd exit. Its also confusing to complicated with more rules about which o'clock it is.

The results of the poll suggest that 50% of the people find it confusing.

TBH thats what you see on the road. You you have to expect people doing it both ways and drive accordingly. Never mind that a bus or truck usually can't stay in lane anyway, because the roundabout is too small in the first place.

One rule should work for all roundabouts. if it doesn't, and you need other rules, O'clocks, or depending on road markings, it fails.

harr · 30-01-2011 8:38pm

just spoke to a neighbor who is a traffic cop and told to have a look at this thread and to see what he thinks,and his understanding is the right lane is the proper lane for this exit and if a collision was to happen between a car in the left lane and a car in the right lane if both cars were taking this exit that the car in the left lane would be at fault as the left lane would be for first exit only,but he also said it would depend on the sign before the roundabout.

GTE · 30-01-2011 8:39pm

niamhocxox wrote: »

In my opinion its the right hand lane that shound be taken, its crystal clear in the sign approaching this roundabout that the exit is past 12, why would you take the left hand lane? :eek::

Why is the exit being past 12 o clock important in your opinion?
Why does that dictate the lane choice when no arrows are on the road for example?
EDIT:
Why would it be any different to having the first exit at 9 o clock and the other directly at 12?

PaddyTheNth · 30-01-2011 8:47pm

bbk wrote: »

Reading this again I find the argument that a driver should take a certain lane because the exit is after 12 o clock utter nonsense.
Lanes on roundabouts are judged by what exit you want to take, not where that exit lays in relation to a clock system.

100% agree with this - there are plenty of roundabouts where you can't see what position of the clock the exits are at when you are entering the roundabout, and all you have to go on is the sequence of the exit you need to take.

Admittedly it is 10 years since I did my test, but back then there was no question of basing your entry lane on anything other than whether you were going for the first, second, or any subsequent exit.

Which makes the quoted response from the RSA baffling.

keaves · 30-01-2011 8:55pm

Is there really an arguement here? is this roundabout in wales?? I dont know anything about their road rules and if its different but here in Ireland if the second exit is past 12 oclock ( I dont know why they picked 12 im just the messenger) you take the right lane, no question, as harr said you would be at fault if you caused a crash being in the left hand lane and it also depends on the signs and road markings before you enter the roadabout.

Just passed my driving test (second time

) but there is a roadabout in the test simlar to this, smaller, and the fist time I done the test I got caught out as I took the left lane instead of right

GTE · 30-01-2011 8:58pm

That RSA response seems daft. I don't believe it to be correct as if it was I would have been marked down in the test or told about it by the instructor. :S

The RSA website is very clear, but not crystal though in my mind it is a very simple system.

Making a left turn (I admit the wording here is retarded. First Exit FFS!)

Signal left and approach in the left-hand lane.

Going straight ahead: Second exit :rolleyes:

Approach in the left-hand lane but do not signal yet.

It goes on to say that you only use the right hand lane if the road markings tell you otherwise or if a Garda tells you to.

Taking any later exits (any exit after the first two)

Signal right and approach in the right-hand lane.

niamhocxox · 30-01-2011 9:02pm

bbk wrote: »

Why is the exit being past 12 o clock important in your opinion?
Why does that dictate the lane choice when no arrows are on the road for example?
EDIT:
Why would it be any different to having the first exit at 9 o clock and the other directly at 12?

Its simply the way I learned it. If the exit was at 12 I'd be in the left hand lane, this exit is past that, so I would choose the right hand lane.

Not every road going into a roundabout has road markings, obviously you follow those if they are there.

If they aren't there then you follow the rules of the road.........

Why would you choose the left hand lane for that exit?

Shane732 · 30-01-2011 9:05pm

Good to see that there's pretty much a 50:50 split. Shows that there is good clarity on the subject!

niamhocxox · 30-01-2011 9:05pm

PaddyTheNth wrote: »

100% agree with this - there are plenty of roundabouts where you can't see what position of the clock the exits are at when you are entering the roundabout, and all you have to go on is the sequence of the exit you need to take.

Admittedly it is 10 years since I did my test, but back then there was no question of basing your entry lane on anything other than whether you were going for the first, second, or any subsequent exit.

Which makes the quoted response from the RSA baffling.

Ah the sign as you approach the roundabout tells you what position on the clock the exits are at :rolleyes:

GTE · 30-01-2011 9:05pm

niamhocxox wrote: »

Its simply the way I learned it. ....

If they aren't there then you follow the rules of the road.

Why would you choose the left hand lane for that exit?

On a roundabout with two lanes but no arrow markings:

The rules of the road clearly state that exit one and two are fed by the left hand lane and any exit after that is fed by the right lane.

Carstuck · 30-01-2011 9:06pm

I'd use the right lane as it clearly to the right and not to the left. Again the 12 o'clock rule applies.

Shane732 · 30-01-2011 9:08pm

bbk wrote: »

Why is the exit being past 12 o clock important in your opinion?
Why does that dictate the lane choice when no arrows are on the road for example?
EDIT:
Why would it be any different to having the first exit at 9 o clock and the other directly at 12?

You can ask that about the second exit rule! You can ask that about pretty much every feckin' rule there is!!!!

So you're saying the advice issued by The Road Safety Authority in the attached reply from the RSA is incorrect? Interesting approach.

niamhocxox · 30-01-2011 9:09pm

bbk wrote: »

On a roundabout with two lanes but no arrow markings:

The rules of the road clearly state that exit one and two are fed by the left hand lane and any exit after that is fed by the right lane.

So if the second exit was at 3 o clock,the 3rd was at 4/5 and the 4th was at 6 you'd take the left hand lane for the second one?

GTE · 30-01-2011 9:11pm

Shane732 wrote: »

You can ask that about the second exit rule! You can ask that about pretty much every feckin' rule there is!!!!

So you're saying the advice issued by The Road Safety Authority in the attached reply from the RSA is incorrect? Interesting approach.

As it clearly contradicts what is printed in the rules of the road I would tend to agree with what has been proof read and approved. In this case that is what is in the handbook.

GTE · 30-01-2011 9:14pm

niamhocxox wrote: »

So if the second exit was at 3 o clock,the 3rd was at 4/5 and the 4th was at 6 you'd take the left hand lane for the second one?

Yes. It is very clear why I would do this in my other posts.

niamhocxox · 30-01-2011 9:15pm

bbk wrote: »

As it clearly contradicts what is printed in the rules of the road I would tend to agree with what has been proof read and approved. In this case that is what is in the handbook.

To be honest this could go on and on.

I think I should just take the right hand lane and you take the left. We'll agree to disagree.

But it is comforting to know that if you hit me you'll be in the wrong

harr · 30-01-2011 9:15pm

bbk wrote: »

As it clearly contradicts what is printed in the rules of the road I would tend to agree with what has been proof read and approved. In this case that is what is in the handbook.

i would love to see what a insurance company or judge would make of this if there was a accident between a car in the left lane and a car in the right lane:(

GTE · 30-01-2011 9:17pm

harr wrote: »

i would love to see what a insurance company or judge would make of this if there was a accident between a car in the left lane and a car in the right lane:(

So would I. The fact that there are two clearly different takes on how to do it coming from the same organisation means there has to be more clarity which has to feed through the education system as it seems different instructors and testers have different views on it themselves.

Shane732 · 30-01-2011 9:18pm

bbk wrote: »

As it clearly contradicts what is printed in the rules of the road I would tend to agree with what has been proof read and approved. In this case that is what is in the handbook.

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

Are these the rules you're talking about?

You'll note that the information on Taking any later exits does not say taking any exit subsequent to the second exit.

:pac:

Shane732 · 30-01-2011 9:20pm

niamhocxox wrote: »

To be honest this could go on and on.

I think I should just take the right hand lane and you take the left. We'll agree to disagree.

But it is comforting to know that if you hit me you'll be in the wrong

I suppose at least it'll be his insurance that'll have to cover it. Every cloud has a silver lining

Greenmachine · 30-01-2011 9:27pm

The left lane obviously. However considering 50% of driver take the right lane for second exits regardless, can't say the poll suprises me in the least.

GTE · 30-01-2011 9:29pm

Shane732 wrote: »

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

Are these the rules you're talking about?

You'll note that the information on Taking any later exits does not say taking any exit subsequent to the second exit.

:pac:

That is my source and if you take a look at the diagrams included you can work out that if you follow the dotted yellow line and match it up to the heading of that sections "Any later exit" is after the second.

That is without reading what came before that logically so I don't see where you are coming from.

At the moment we have the two sources from the same organisation giving two different explanations of how to do it which doesn't mean there is a right and wrong between the two as such which is disappointing from the RSA. It has to be clear and definitive from the outset which I believe the rules of the road to be aside from some wording issues on this particular issue. That does not mean I am right as there is, judging only by the poll, about half of the motoring population being taught differently then the other. That is wrong and has to be fixed.

There is a lot of petty bickering by members in this thread as a whole for no good reason. The RSA need to have a rethink of the whole subject and have the matter resolved. I will follow whatever conclusion comes out of that which is then printed in the rules of the road handbook/site when it gets revised.

overshoot · 30-01-2011 9:32pm

it is the right lane, roundabouts work by angles and not exits. anything up to 12 o'clock is left, after is right, unless local signage/road markings say otherwise (you should also indicate right until you pass the exit before yours).
this is identical to a rounabout near my house so it was the one of the first things i asked my driving instructor when i started driving (4 1/2 years ago now but when its beside your house you tend to remember it). (and he was a good instructor not a cowboy)
there is also the argument that not all rounabouts have 4 exits and they may not all be of the same importance

overshoot · 30-01-2011 9:34pm

oh and i might have clicked the wrong thing when i was voting...sorry so it should be 55right, 54left

niamhocxox · 30-01-2011 9:35pm

Greenmachine wrote: »

The left lane obviously. However considering 50% of driver take the right lane for second exits regardless, can't say the poll suprises me in the least.

Why would you chooose the left hand lane?

Shane732 · 30-01-2011 9:35pm

bbk wrote: »

That is my source and if you take a look at the diagrams included you can work out that if you follow the dotted yellow line and match it up to the heading of that sections "Any later exit" is after the second.

I'm not bickering with you.

The second exit also happens to be located at 12 o' clock so in either instance you'd take the left lane. I wouldn't say the information on the RSA website is definitive at all.

phill106 · 30-01-2011 9:37pm

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I feel these posts should be removed from the front page as it makes first time readers think they're right!

i stand by what i said. My link is a video from the rsa site. Do you think they would put it up if it was wrong?

Has anyone posted any links showing agreement with 12 oclock rule? I have a feeling this was the way roundabouts used to be taught, but has changed in last 10-15 years.

Shane732 · 30-01-2011 9:42pm

phill106 wrote: »

i stand by what i said. My link is a video from the rsa site. Do you think they would put it up if it was wrong?

Again the second exit is located @ 12:00 it doesn't prove either argument.

GTE · 30-01-2011 9:44pm

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm not bickering with you.

I am talking about the thread as whole but what I will say in addition while I think of it is that is there is a pathetic amount of simplistic "I'm right and you're wrong" in this thread. It was clearly established when a user here posted the RSA email that there are two distinct and equally well founded views on how to approach a roundabout. What needs to happen now is getting the RSA notified about it so it can be cleared up for once and for all.

Shane732 wrote: »

The second exit also happens to be located at 12 o' clock so in either instance you'd take the left lane. I wouldn't say the information on the RSA website is definitive at all.

Considering that the clock method is not mentioned on the ROTR I would not take the positioning of the exits in the diagram to be significant.

The info on the RSA website in relation to the roundabout is very clear when you can distance yourself from the other way of doing it.

If the clock method is in fact the way that the RSA want it done then the ROTR is utterly useless now and cant be trusted. My view point until clarification is that both have a solid foundation when you look at them completely separate to the other.

niamhocxox · 30-01-2011 9:48pm

phill106 wrote: »

i stand by what i said. My link is a video from the rsa site. Do you think they would put it up if it was wrong?

Has anyone posted any links showing agreement with 12 oclock rule? I have a feeling this was the way roundabouts used to be taught, but has changed in last 10-15 years.

I'm sorry but the roundbout in that video is completely different than the one concerned. That video is correct.

However in the roundabout we are talking about the 2nd exit is past 12 o clock.

phill106 · 30-01-2011 9:49pm

I have looked at the rules of the road website, the rsa website, and several driving school websites, all say the same thing. There is no mention of clocks mentioned at all.

TRAVELLING STRAIGHT AHEAD
http://www.lireland.com/theory/round2.gif

Stay in the left hand lane, but do not indicate "left" until you have passed he first exit. Where conditions dictate otherwise, you may follow the course shown by the broken line.

Greenmachine · 30-01-2011 9:50pm

niamhocxox wrote: »

Why would you chooose the left hand lane?

Because it is the second exit. The time makes no difference. physically when you are on come on to a roundabout with a left handed system once you have passed 90 degrees you are the car is turning to the right yet if you are going straight ahead you stay in the left lane. The number of the exit from you dictates the lane you should take.

phill106 · 30-01-2011 9:52pm

Greenmachine wrote: »

Because it is the second exit. The time makes no difference. physically when you are on come on to a roundabout with a left handed system once you have passed 90 degrees you are the car is turning to the right yet if you are going straight ahead you stay in the left lane. The number of the exit from you dictates the lane you should take.

This...

-Chris- · 30-01-2011 9:54pm

Right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right

jaffa20 · 30-01-2011 9:55pm

phill106 wrote: »

i stand by what i said. My link is a video from the rsa site. Do you think they would put it up if it was wrong?

Has anyone posted any links showing agreement with 12 oclock rule? I have a feeling this was the way roundabouts used to be taught, but has changed in last 10-15 years.

http://www.bitingpoint.co.uk/roundabouts

http://www.aandcdrivingschool.ie/roundabouts.html

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/ADI/DrivingFault_Marking_Guides.pdf (see Page 6 position at roundabouts)

mfceiling · 30-01-2011 9:55pm

-Chris- wrote: »

Right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right

wrong...

niamhocxox · 30-01-2011 10:02pm

jaffa20 wrote: »

http://www.bitingpoint.co.uk/roundabouts

http://www.aandcdrivingschool.ie/roundabouts.html

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/ADI/DrivingFault_Marking_Guides.pdf (see Page 6 position at roundabouts)

I really wish everyone would open these links! :rolleyes:

stevenmu · 30-01-2011 10:06pm

In the time it took me to read this thread the poll results have gone 56:56, 57:57, 58:58, 59:59. Obviously the relevant rules and legislation are not clear enough on the subject.

Personally I'd go with right, I know the clocks system isn't a part of any rules, but it makes the most sense. I would also be very careful about cars potentially being on my left.

GTE · 30-01-2011 10:09pm

niamhocxox wrote: »

However in the roundabout we are talking about the 2nd exit is past 12 o clock.

niamhocxox wrote: »

I really wish everyone would open these links! :rolleyes:

Niamh, I accept that there is another way of using roundabouts being taught in the country. The poll and evidence posted makes this very clear. Evidence being the email and the RSA website. You can wish and roll your eyes all you want but all those links are doing is showing how bad the RSA is at giving a clear message. They are not proving your stance at all. There is no proving to be done on either side. Two clear methods are given but the unclarity and the problem is that there are two methods to begin with.

All I ask you and others reading this thread to do is to put this aside and step back to realise that due to the evidence posted for both sides of the argument there are two perfectly fine ways of dealing with roundabouts being taught in Ireland. One is wrong. I don't care which right now but what I do care about is that the RSA clears it up for once.

It is unacceptable to have the RSA spouting out two very very different methods of doing the same thing.

If the clock method turns out to be the one the RSA want that is fine. We will all have won in that we have gotten the RSA to fill a retarded hole in their way of doing things.

My main point is the the 50% for one side is not going to convince the other 50% and it is wrong to think that it should work like that.

It would be much better to get everyone here emailing the RSA to clear it up and not trying to prove that one view is correct over the other. That will get us, well it has gotten us no where.

Ki ki · 30-01-2011 10:23pm

jaffa20 wrote: »

Yeah, i was even doubting myself after reading the first few posts...

I see they have all gone quiet now though:D

At first I said left because I always understood from the rules of the road manual that you only use the right lane for the 3rd or each subsequent exit. When I saw the email from the RSA I was willing to admit I was wrong.

This is however the very first time I've ever heard of which lane to use being dictated by the clock system. I understand perfectly how this would work but I find it shocking that such contradictory information is being given out by the RSA.

The only thing I'm sure of now is that I'm scared to go back on a roundabout :eek:

deaglan169 · 30-01-2011 10:24pm

left lane i say, i was always thought left lane for 1st and 2nd exit, right for 3rd exit and there after. try the roundabouts in Ardee its crazy i usually straddle both lanes so i dont get cut up;)

Shane732 · 30-01-2011 10:25pm

bbk wrote: »

It would be much better to get everyone here emailing the RSA to clear it up and not trying to prove that one view is correct over the other. That will get us, well it has gotten us no where.

That's already been done - I linked the response on the first page of this thread (post 12) and yet here we are on page seven!

I do agree with you that there is conflicting evidence out there. Having said that I think page 6 of the leaflet attached by jaffa is pretty clear and should settle any argument.

Shane732 · 30-01-2011 10:26pm

mfceiling wrote: »

wrong...

ditto

How to Use A Roundabout

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