How to Use A Roundabout

PaddyTheNth

bbk wrote: »

Reading this again I find the argument that a driver should take a certain lane because the exit is after 12 o clock utter nonsense.
Lanes on roundabouts are judged by what exit you want to take, not where that exit lays in relation to a clock system.

100% agree with this - there are plenty of roundabouts where you can't see what position of the clock the exits are at when you are entering the roundabout, and all you have to go on is the sequence of the exit you need to take.

Admittedly it is 10 years since I did my test, but back then there was no question of basing your entry lane on anything other than whether you were going for the first, second, or any subsequent exit.

Which makes the quoted response from the RSA baffling.

keaves

Is there really an arguement here? is this roundabout in wales?? I dont know anything about their road rules and if its different but here in Ireland if the second exit is past 12 oclock ( I dont know why they picked 12 im just the messenger) you take the right lane, no question, as harr said you would be at fault if you caused a crash being in the left hand lane and it also depends on the signs and road markings before you enter the roadabout.

Just passed my driving test (second time ) but there is a roadabout in the test simlar to this, smaller, and the fist time I done the test I got caught out as I took the left lane instead of right

GTE

That RSA response seems daft. I don't believe it to be correct as if it was I would have been marked down in the test or told about it by the instructor. :S

The RSA website is very clear, but not crystal though in my mind it is a very simple system.

Making a left turn (I admit the wording here is retarded. First Exit FFS!)

Signal left and approach in the left-hand lane.

Going straight ahead: Second exit :rolleyes:

Approach in the left-hand lane but do not signal yet.

It goes on to say that you only use the right hand lane if the road markings tell you otherwise or if a Garda tells you to.

Taking any later exits (any exit after the first two)

Signal right and approach in the right-hand lane.

niamhocxox

bbk wrote: »

Why is the exit being past 12 o clock important in your opinion?
Why does that dictate the lane choice when no arrows are on the road for example?
EDIT:
Why would it be any different to having the first exit at 9 o clock and the other directly at 12?

Its simply the way I learned it. If the exit was at 12 I'd be in the left hand lane, this exit is past that, so I would choose the right hand lane.

Not every road going into a roundabout has road markings, obviously you follow those if they are there.

If they aren't there then you follow the rules of the road.........

Why would you choose the left hand lane for that exit?

Shane732

Good to see that there's pretty much a 50:50 split. Shows that there is good clarity on the subject!

niamhocxox

PaddyTheNth wrote: »

100% agree with this - there are plenty of roundabouts where you can't see what position of the clock the exits are at when you are entering the roundabout, and all you have to go on is the sequence of the exit you need to take.

Admittedly it is 10 years since I did my test, but back then there was no question of basing your entry lane on anything other than whether you were going for the first, second, or any subsequent exit.

Which makes the quoted response from the RSA baffling.

Ah the sign as you approach the roundabout tells you what position on the clock the exits are at :rolleyes:

GTE

niamhocxox wrote: »

Its simply the way I learned it. ....

If they aren't there then you follow the rules of the road.

Why would you choose the left hand lane for that exit?

On a roundabout with two lanes but no arrow markings:

The rules of the road clearly state that exit one and two are fed by the left hand lane and any exit after that is fed by the right lane.

Carstuck

I'd use the right lane as it clearly to the right and not to the left. Again the 12 o'clock rule applies.

Shane732

bbk wrote: »

Why is the exit being past 12 o clock important in your opinion?
Why does that dictate the lane choice when no arrows are on the road for example?
EDIT:
Why would it be any different to having the first exit at 9 o clock and the other directly at 12?

You can ask that about the second exit rule! You can ask that about pretty much every feckin' rule there is!!!!

So you're saying the advice issued by The Road Safety Authority in the attached reply from the RSA is incorrect? Interesting approach.

niamhocxox

bbk wrote: »

On a roundabout with two lanes but no arrow markings:

The rules of the road clearly state that exit one and two are fed by the left hand lane and any exit after that is fed by the right lane.

So if the second exit was at 3 o clock,the 3rd was at 4/5 and the 4th was at 6 you'd take the left hand lane for the second one?

GTE

Shane732 wrote: »

You can ask that about the second exit rule! You can ask that about pretty much every feckin' rule there is!!!!

So you're saying the advice issued by The Road Safety Authority in the attached reply from the RSA is incorrect? Interesting approach.

As it clearly contradicts what is printed in the rules of the road I would tend to agree with what has been proof read and approved. In this case that is what is in the handbook.

GTE

niamhocxox wrote: »

So if the second exit was at 3 o clock,the 3rd was at 4/5 and the 4th was at 6 you'd take the left hand lane for the second one?

Yes. It is very clear why I would do this in my other posts.

niamhocxox

bbk wrote: »

As it clearly contradicts what is printed in the rules of the road I would tend to agree with what has been proof read and approved. In this case that is what is in the handbook.

To be honest this could go on and on.

I think I should just take the right hand lane and you take the left. We'll agree to disagree.

But it is comforting to know that if you hit me you'll be in the wrong

harr

bbk wrote: »

As it clearly contradicts what is printed in the rules of the road I would tend to agree with what has been proof read and approved. In this case that is what is in the handbook.

i would love to see what a insurance company or judge would make of this if there was a accident between a car in the left lane and a car in the right lane:(

GTE

harr wrote: »

i would love to see what a insurance company or judge would make of this if there was a accident between a car in the left lane and a car in the right lane:(

So would I. The fact that there are two clearly different takes on how to do it coming from the same organisation means there has to be more clarity which has to feed through the education system as it seems different instructors and testers have different views on it themselves.

Shane732

bbk wrote: »

As it clearly contradicts what is printed in the rules of the road I would tend to agree with what has been proof read and approved. In this case that is what is in the handbook.

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

Are these the rules you're talking about?

You'll note that the information on Taking any later exits does not say taking any exit subsequent to the second exit.

:pac:

Shane732

niamhocxox wrote: »

To be honest this could go on and on.

I think I should just take the right hand lane and you take the left. We'll agree to disagree.

But it is comforting to know that if you hit me you'll be in the wrong

I suppose at least it'll be his insurance that'll have to cover it. Every cloud has a silver lining

Greenmachine

The left lane obviously. However considering 50% of driver take the right lane for second exits regardless, can't say the poll suprises me in the least.

GTE

Shane732 wrote: »

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

Are these the rules you're talking about?

You'll note that the information on Taking any later exits does not say taking any exit subsequent to the second exit.

:pac:

That is my source and if you take a look at the diagrams included you can work out that if you follow the dotted yellow line and match it up to the heading of that sections "Any later exit" is after the second.

That is without reading what came before that logically so I don't see where you are coming from.

At the moment we have the two sources from the same organisation giving two different explanations of how to do it which doesn't mean there is a right and wrong between the two as such which is disappointing from the RSA. It has to be clear and definitive from the outset which I believe the rules of the road to be aside from some wording issues on this particular issue. That does not mean I am right as there is, judging only by the poll, about half of the motoring population being taught differently then the other. That is wrong and has to be fixed.

There is a lot of petty bickering by members in this thread as a whole for no good reason. The RSA need to have a rethink of the whole subject and have the matter resolved. I will follow whatever conclusion comes out of that which is then printed in the rules of the road handbook/site when it gets revised.

overshoot

it is the right lane, roundabouts work by angles and not exits. anything up to 12 o'clock is left, after is right, unless local signage/road markings say otherwise (you should also indicate right until you pass the exit before yours).
this is identical to a rounabout near my house so it was the one of the first things i asked my driving instructor when i started driving (4 1/2 years ago now but when its beside your house you tend to remember it). (and he was a good instructor not a cowboy)
there is also the argument that not all rounabouts have 4 exits and they may not all be of the same importance

overshoot

oh and i might have clicked the wrong thing when i was voting...sorry so it should be 55right, 54left

niamhocxox

Greenmachine wrote: »

The left lane obviously. However considering 50% of driver take the right lane for second exits regardless, can't say the poll suprises me in the least.

Why would you chooose the left hand lane?

Shane732

bbk wrote: »

That is my source and if you take a look at the diagrams included you can work out that if you follow the dotted yellow line and match it up to the heading of that sections "Any later exit" is after the second.

I'm not bickering with you.

The second exit also happens to be located at 12 o' clock so in either instance you'd take the left lane. I wouldn't say the information on the RSA website is definitive at all.

phill106

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I feel these posts should be removed from the front page as it makes first time readers think they're right!

i stand by what i said. My link is a video from the rsa site. Do you think they would put it up if it was wrong?

Has anyone posted any links showing agreement with 12 oclock rule? I have a feeling this was the way roundabouts used to be taught, but has changed in last 10-15 years.

Shane732

phill106 wrote: »

i stand by what i said. My link is a video from the rsa site. Do you think they would put it up if it was wrong?

Again the second exit is located @ 12:00 it doesn't prove either argument.

GTE

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm not bickering with you.

I am talking about the thread as whole but what I will say in addition while I think of it is that is there is a pathetic amount of simplistic "I'm right and you're wrong" in this thread. It was clearly established when a user here posted the RSA email that there are two distinct and equally well founded views on how to approach a roundabout. What needs to happen now is getting the RSA notified about it so it can be cleared up for once and for all.

Shane732 wrote: »

The second exit also happens to be located at 12 o' clock so in either instance you'd take the left lane. I wouldn't say the information on the RSA website is definitive at all.

Considering that the clock method is not mentioned on the ROTR I would not take the positioning of the exits in the diagram to be significant.

The info on the RSA website in relation to the roundabout is very clear when you can distance yourself from the other way of doing it.

If the clock method is in fact the way that the RSA want it done then the ROTR is utterly useless now and cant be trusted. My view point until clarification is that both have a solid foundation when you look at them completely separate to the other.

niamhocxox

phill106 wrote: »

i stand by what i said. My link is a video from the rsa site. Do you think they would put it up if it was wrong?

Has anyone posted any links showing agreement with 12 oclock rule? I have a feeling this was the way roundabouts used to be taught, but has changed in last 10-15 years.

I'm sorry but the roundbout in that video is completely different than the one concerned. That video is correct.

However in the roundabout we are talking about the 2nd exit is past 12 o clock.

phill106

I have looked at the rules of the road website, the rsa website, and several driving school websites, all say the same thing. There is no mention of clocks mentioned at all.


TRAVELLING STRAIGHT AHEAD
http://www.lireland.com/theory/round2.gif


Stay in the left hand lane, but do not indicate "left" until you have passed he first exit. Where conditions dictate otherwise, you may follow the course shown by the broken line.

Greenmachine

niamhocxox wrote: »

Why would you chooose the left hand lane?

Because it is the second exit. The time makes no difference. physically when you are on come on to a roundabout with a left handed system once you have passed 90 degrees you are the car is turning to the right yet if you are going straight ahead you stay in the left lane. The number of the exit from you dictates the lane you should take.

phill106

Greenmachine wrote: »

Because it is the second exit. The time makes no difference. physically when you are on come on to a roundabout with a left handed system once you have passed 90 degrees you are the car is turning to the right yet if you are going straight ahead you stay in the left lane. The number of the exit from you dictates the lane you should take.

This...