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Garda asking for name

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Comments

  • #62
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    WildOscar wrote: »
    yes i believe so and his number, station, and super

    But is he legally obliged?

    Or is he required to do so under his discipline code?


  • #63
    wee truck big driver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭wee truck big driver


    presumably he/she is obliged to show you identification to verify who they are


  • #64
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    Chief--- wrote: »
    But is he legally obliged?

    Or is he required to do so under his discipline code?
    not certain


  • #65
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    wee truck big driver wrote: »
    presumably he/she is obliged to show you identification to verify who they are
    you could ask him anyway. sure anone can ask a question. ask his name/station etc and be pleasant and show common decency to him - you can complain later if necessary....


  • #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 653 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    WildOscar wrote: »
    you have some cheek to say who is common decent and who is not. you a cop too?

    Not a cop just a decent person. I'm sorry you think it's cheeky but it seems to be an obvious lack of common decency to refuse to assist the Gardai considering what they do. And a lack of common sense to realise that a Garda may not be able to share the details of his investigation with you.
    Like if you were in a hospital and a Doctor was running to help a patient in cardiac arrest, you don't have to move out of their way but it's the common decent thing to do.
    Some people lack manners, a sad fact of life.


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  • #67
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭source


    WildOscar wrote: »
    you could ask him anyway. sure anone can ask a question. ask his name/station etc and be pleasant and show common decency to him - you can complain later if necessary....

    Would you not think that the same applies for Gardai?


  • #68
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Yeah courtesy is the key.

    If you are after abusing/fighting/punching/asking them if they've nothing better to be doing, the Garda normally they wont give you their name after you "demand" it.

    From experience most will point to their district numbers on their shoulders which is at most a 3 digit number.

    This is an easy way of identifying the person in question.


  • #69
    stephendevlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭stephendevlin


    ILA wrote: »

    I remember a young fella had his application for the gardai rejected because of a incorrect entry on the PULSE system

    HAH!!! If you make a complaint or a statement your lucky it hits the pulse system...


  • #70
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    foinse wrote: »
    Would you not think that the same applies for Gardai?
    yes so long as person is told if he must answer asnd is not intimidated into answering by the presence of garda.sometimes garda play on the fact people do not know their rights or fear the garda. also i think the garda has an obligation to answer the question but would have to check that


  • #71
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    If you are after abusing/fighting/punching/asking them if they've nothing better to be doing, the Garda normally they wont give you their name after you "demand" it.
    i am assuming the person was not doing anything wrong and have no time for people who abuse others. i am commenting on the legal issue of whether names must be given
    From experience most will point to their district numbers on their shoulders which is at most a 3 digit number.
    are they obliged to give name or just point to number


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  • #72
    sdanseo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Interestingly, just come in the door after being through a checkpoint and I see this. Got asked my name, and where I was from - and as soon as I said the word Malahide, the Garda changed from semi-serious to cheery and said "on your way".

    On topic though, I have no problem giving my details, whether legally required to do so or not. At the end of the day putting myself on the other side of the fence, if I was a Garda and someone refused their name, I'd have to ask what they have to hide. I can even see why I was maybe looked upon as suspicious - I was driving through Coolock, not exactly a wealthy area, in a fairly nice car and I'm only 22. It's a little out of the ordinary. Also, my window was wound down.


  • #73
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    WildOscar wrote: »
    are they obliged to give name or just point to number

    They are not committing an offence by refusing to give you their name.

    Internal discipline regs is a different matter.


  • #74
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    Chief--- wrote: »
    They are not committing an offence by refusing to give you their name. .
    but it would be commonly decent
    what is the difference between internal regs and legislation


  • #75
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    WildOscar wrote: »
    but it would be commonly decent
    what is the difference between internal regs and legislation

    If they were committing an offence you could report them to the Gardai or GSOC and the Garda could be summonsed to court.

    If you reported it now to their superiors or GSOC they could be dealt with under their disciplinary code, they same as in any job.


  • #76
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    Chief--- wrote: »
    If you reported it now to their superiors or GSOC they could be dealt with under their disciplinary code, they same as in any job.
    i do not understand why they could be reported to superiors for something they are not obliged to do i.e give name. or do you mean they are obliged under internal regs


  • #77
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    k_mac wrote: »
    No I didn't, I said I understood why a criminal would not want to give that information but didn't understand why an ordinary decent citizen wouldn't. If you would like to provide reasons i would gladly consider them.

    I would have a problem giving my details to a member a Garda simply because I don't like to give up the small liberties, if asked I would ask the Garda why they want my details and if they don't give me one that I think myself is reason for them to know my name then I would tell them as such.

    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin.

    I have never commit a crime, I don't plan to, and if a Guard wants to know my name, they will have to have a good reason to know it.
    KeepTheFaith wrote: »
    The legal issue has been dealt with. No you are not obliged to give your name. Basically some of the people commenting on this are rude unhelpful people who won't assist our Police force in their duties because of a prejudice they have against the Gardai.

    If you ever need the Gardai and they are impeded in helping you by another rude unhelpful person then hopefully you will rethink your position.

    There is a difference between not giving up one's name (which may seem rude) and actually being unhelpful. I will tell a Garda how to get to a street if they ask me, but unless they have a good reason for wanting to know my name, they are not getting it!

    I am not saying I wouldn't give it if I witnessed something, but if I was just walking down the street minding my own business, and my name is asked I am not giving it up. Happened once before, before I looked into the legalities of it, and I gave my name, I was doing nothing and no reason for asking was given. Has also happened friends, who all gave theirs because they thought they were required to.


  • #78
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    minidazzler wrote: »
    I would have a problem giving my details to a member a Garda simply because I don't like to give up the small liberties, if asked I would ask the Garda why they want my details and if they don't give me one that I think myself is reason for them to know my name then I would tell them as such.

    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin.

    I have never commit a crime, I don't plan to, and if a Guard wants to know my name, they will have to have a good reason to know it.



    There is a difference between not giving up one's name (which may seem rude) and actually being unhelpful. I will tell a Garda how to get to a street if they ask me, but unless they have a good reason for wanting to know my name, they are not getting it!

    I am not saying I wouldn't give it if I witnessed something, but if I was just walking down the street minding my own business, and my name is asked I am not giving it up. .Happened once before, before I looked into the legalities of it, and I gave my name, I was doing nothing and no reason for asking was given Has also happened friends, who all gave theirs because they thought they were required to.
    so do a lot of peoplke and some garda take advantage of that. i agree with you about if you witnessed something and the difference of that to just walking on street etc H
    appened once before, before I looked into the legalities of it, and I gave my name, I was doing nothing and no reason for asking was given
    well done for finding out your rights etc


  • #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 653 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    minidazzler wrote: »
    I would have a problem giving my details to a member a Garda simply because I don't like to give up the small liberties, if asked I would ask the Garda why they want my details and if they don't give me one that I think myself is reason for them to know my name then I would tell them as such.

    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin.

    I have never commit a crime, I don't plan to, and if a Guard wants to know my name, they will have to have a good reason to know it.



    There is a difference between not giving up one's name (which may seem rude) and actually being unhelpful. I will tell a Garda how to get to a street if they ask me, but unless they have a good reason for wanting to know my name, they are not getting it!

    I am not saying I wouldn't give it if I witnessed something, but if I was just walking down the street minding my own business, and my name is asked I am not giving it up. Happened once before, before I looked into the legalities of it, and I gave my name, I was doing nothing and no reason for asking was given. Has also happened friends, who all gave theirs because they thought they were required to.

    Did the thought ever cross your mind that the Garda could have had legitimate reasons for not being able to share the reason for asking your name?

    The longer this thread goes on the more I pity the Gardai having to do their job dealing with people who's first thought is how to be as unhelpful as they can possibly be while acting within the Law and it never once occurs to them to be helpful to somebody doing their job to protect the public.


  • #80
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    minidazzler wrote: »
    I would have a problem giving my details to a member a Garda simply because I don't like to give up the small liberties,

    Perhaps you could explain this. What liberty are you giving up?


  • #81
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    This discussion was intended to be a discussion on whether or not a person was legally obliged to give their name and/or address, not whether they should or not.


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  • #82
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    k_mac wrote: »
    Perhaps you could explain this. What liberty are you giving up?

    The right for me to go about my business without having to answer questions about who I am or where I'm from. I am a law abiding citizen of this country and am therefore not obliged to give my name to anyone I don't want to. I like that, I have the freedom to choose not to give my name, so to answer, I am not giving up a liberty, I am retaining the freedom to keep myself unto myself. Privacy is a big deal to me.

    @the poster above the quoted who's name I can't remember as I am on mobile.

    If my name is gonna help in anything I wanna know how it will be used, simple as. If there are reasons they can't tell me, then tough, I am not gonna just take their word for it.

    I will add though, I do actually have great respect for Gardai, but j believe my right to privacy is more important than answering questions for reasons j known.


  • #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 653 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    minidazzler wrote: »
    The right for me to go about my business without having to answer questions about who I am or where I'm from. I am a law abiding citizen of this country and am therefore not obliged to give my name to anyone I don't want to. I like that, I have the freedom to choose not to give my name, so to answer, I am not giving up a liberty, I am retaining the freedom to keep myself unto myself. Privacy is a big deal to me.

    @the poster above the quoted who's name I can't remember as I am on mobile.

    If my name is gonna help in anything I wanna know how it will be used, simple as. If there are reasons they can't tell me, then tough, I am not gonna just take their word for it.

    I will add though, I do actually have great respect for Gardai, but j believe my right to privacy is more important than answering questions for reasons j known.

    Your right to privacy (and I use the term loosely as your identity and place of residence is hardly private, no harm could possibly come to you buy sharing such basic details) trumps the rights of the possible victim of a crime that could have occurred in the area? I find it disgustingly selfish that you would refuse to give up such a minor right for the good of public safety. Yet I'm sure you would have no problem showing a bouncer ID if you were entering a pub or club.
    The Gardai rely on public co-operation to make their inquiries. Thank God everyone doesn't go around with your attitude. Maybe if this does happen in future you could consider that the inquiry they are making could be to find someone who attacked a young woman who could have been your sister or girlfriend, and for the purposes of the investigation they can't give any details.
    Or maybe you'll just say "No I don't have to tell you my name" and walk away happy that your precious right to keep yourself to yourself is completely intact. "Tough" indeed..


  • #84
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    minidazzler wrote: »
    The right for me to go about my business without having to answer questions about who I am or where I'm from. I am a law abiding citizen of this country and am therefore not obliged to give my name to anyone I don't want to. I like that, I have the freedom to choose not to give my name, so to answer, I am not giving up a liberty, I am retaining the freedom to keep myself unto myself. Privacy is a big deal to me.

    @the poster above the quoted who's name I can't remember as I am on mobile.

    If my name is gonna help in anything I wanna know how it will be used, simple as. If there are reasons they can't tell me, then tough, I am not gonna just take their word for it.

    I will add though, I do actually have great respect for Gardai, but j believe my right to privacy is more important than answering questions for reasons j known.

    But how much convincing would you need? Would being told that a crime has been committed nearby be enough or would you want details of the crime?


  • #85
    Jo King
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Jo King


    k_mac wrote: »
    Like I said. It's called common decency. Not everyone has it though.

    Common decency would require that the guard give his name first, before asking for a name where he has no statutory right or power to ask it.


  • #86
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Jo King wrote: »
    Common decency would require that the guard give his name first, before asking for a name where he has no statutory right or power to ask it.

    Well Gardaí are always identifiable by their shoulder numbers. If it was a plain clothes garda with no identifying marks they should show their ID first. But what I've been saying is that even if they do have a statutory power they will ask first. The persons response will give the Gardaí an indication of their personality. Even without a statutory power the gardaí have a right to investigate any crime by talking to any person. So they always have a right to ask and only need to invoke a statutory power if the person refuses to answer.


  • #87
    Reloc8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Reloc8


    Gardai have something like a right to ask for someone's name, arising not from the fact that they are gardai, but in the same terms and on the same basis as any citizen has something like a right to do so, i.e. 'the right' if it is a right, as opposed to an opportunity, to approach another citizen and speak to them.

    The citizen in question has the full right to ignore the request, or decline to give their name in those circumstances.

    Gardai have various statutory powers exercisable in defined circumstances to require of persons that they provide their name and other details.

    In the absence of that power being invoked, validly, the person in question has no obligation to comply.

    And, importantly, if a garda asks for my name and I decline to give it, that in and of itself does not give him any right or power whatsoever to require me to provide it. To say that a garda can invoke a statutory power in those simple circumstances is absolutely not true
    .......
    A person might choose to engage with the garda request for their name, or a person might not. That's liberty.

    Gardai have no basis for taking umbrage or offence at the notion that a person might choose not to provide their details in the absence of the valid exercise of a statutory power.


  • #88
    ILA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ILA


    stephendevlin wrote: »
    HAH!!! If you make a complaint or a statement your lucky it hits the pulse system...
    Yep, but they can easily find time to log details which aren't exactly relevant. I'll just leave this thread, once again the cops and the do-gooders win out and pretend that abuses aren't epidemic.

    If you want to know my name, you won't be getting it, and you can lock me up wherever you want for as long as you want.


  • #89
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    KeepTheFaith wrote: »
    The longer this thread goes on the more I pity the Gardai having to do their job dealing with people who's first thought is how to be as unhelpful as they can possibly be while acting within the Law and it never once occurs to them to be helpful to somebody doing their job to protect the public.

    Isn't that the truth.

    Been stopped once, late one night/early one morning had a squad car pull, got asked the usual, name, where was I coming from, where was I going to... answered all truthfully, no problems, had a bit of banter. Asked what they were looking for and he told me he couldn't really say, had some more banter (asking if I'd passed anyone/seen anything out of the ordinary etc) in the end they told me they had goten reports of a 'person of interest' on foot in the same area where there'd been a string of burglaries the few nights before.

    More often than not they can't tell you the exact reason they want your information for operational reasons. It would be too easy to tell someone what they are doing and have that person go and tip off who they are looking for to scarper.


  • #90
    ILA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ILA


    prinz wrote: »
    Isn't that the truth.

    Been stopped once, late one night/early one morning had a squad car pull, got asked the usual, name, where was I coming from, where was I going to... answered all truthfully, no problems, had a bit of banter. Asked what they were looking for and he told me he couldn't really say, had some more banter (asking if I'd passed anyone/seen anything out of the ordinary etc) in the end they told me they had goten reports of a 'person of interest' on foot in the same area where there'd been a string of burglaries the few nights before.

    More often than not they can't tell you the exact reason they want your information for operational reasons. It would be too easy to tell someone what they are doing and have that person go and tip off who they are looking for to scarper.
    Ah sure jaysus aren't they grand fellas like.

    Die.


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  • #91
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    ILA wrote: »
    Ah sure jaysus aren't they grand fellas like..

    Yeah, the vast majority are. Is it a freakish coincidence that the people with the biggest chip on their shoulders in general are also the ones who tend to claim to have the most issues with AGS?
    ILA wrote: »
    Die.

    Charming.


This discussion has been closed.
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