Garda asking for name

Wolfe Tone

Simple question here, does one have to tell a member of AGS their name and/or address? I'm not talking about after being arrested, or interviewed etc, but if a member of AGS asks for those details do you have to give them?

Take this situation for example, someone is handing out leaflets, a Garda comes over, asks both the person giving and a random passer by(who was given a leaflet) their names, do they have to give them?

Tigger

Afaik it's an obligation to give name address where you live and where you are coming from

Here is some stuff from indymedia saying I'm wrong

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82108

baldbear

http://www.politics.ie/justice/97491-your-rights-how-deal-gardai.html

Answer in here! If you aren't breaking the law i don't see why you have to give you're name.

blackcoat

No you do not have to give them your name but my own personal advice would be just to provide it.

Contrary to what the anarchists and conspiracy theorists at indymedia say, the Gardai will have a valid reason for asking someone their name or details. (queue the irrational ramblings of the aforementioned...)

I realise that some people may see it as somewhat invasive but as I said, the guards don't just ask for no reason at all and as long as they are polite about it and, if appropriate (eg. so long as it wouldnt interfere with their enquiries), provide a reason for their doing so, I see no reason why anyone would refuse to just give their name. Otherwise they are rightfully arousing the Garda's suspicions.

Don't believe all you read on indymedia. The opening line is enough to predict that what follows will be pure drivel.
I'd say there's more articulate stuff scrawled in s**t on the walls of institutions for the criminally insane.

I've been stopped once by the Gardai as I walked home from a night out and gladly provided my details when they asked.
Somebodys home may have just been burgled nearby and it would have been extremely incompetent of them to simply drive by me.
I saw it as a minor incovenience and very slight encroachment on my rights for a greater good, in the same way airport security is.

I think its good to see the guards being proactive like that and if you were a victim of crime you'd no doubt be glad to know that the Guards were actively investigating it.

Wolfe Tone

No you do not have to give them your name but my own personal advice would be just to provide it.

I probably would, but I am just curious as to whether I am always legally required to give such details to the garda when I have done no wrong, ie distributing leaflets or the like.

Keith186

Just tell them you're Mussolini for the laugh

maglite

^ Epic Thanking

Michael Angelo.

Severe de ja vu with this one.....

The public order act of 94 is possibly your best friend in answering your "discussion"


Sec 24.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds any person committing an offence under a relevant provision, the member may arrest such person without warrant.

(2) Where a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that an offence has been committed under a relevant provision, the member may—

(a) demand the name and address of any person whom the member suspects, with reasonable cause, has committed, or whom the member finds committing, such an offence, and

(b) arrest without warrant any such person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded, or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing is false or misleading.

(3) Any person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded by virtue of subsection (2), or gives a name or address when so demanded which is false or misleading, shall be guilty of an offence.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (3) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to a term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or to both.


So delivering envelopes you say.........

Section 8 (1) B will cover this activity especially If your a stranger in the area or on private property (to exit you will have to re enter public property)

8.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds a person in a public place and suspects, with reasonable cause, that such person—

(a) is or has been acting in a manner contrary to the provisions of section 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 or 9 , or

(b) without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, is acting in a manner which consists of loitering in a public place in circumstances, which may include the company of other persons, that give rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace,

Can I ask why your seeking this advice???

francie82

Obviously they are askin u for a reason,,,,maybe they suspect somethin. U are obliged to give ur name and if u give a name they can bring u back to the station to clarify that it is ur correct name. I know for sure its not an offence to give a wrong DOB

Locust

OP -
You can also be stopped by Gardai when driving a vehicle, doing nothing wrong, you can be routinely stopped (Section 109 Road Traffic Act gives this power). Section 40 - your driving licence can be demanded off you (which obviously has your name address dob details etc). Section 107 also provides for demanding name and address and there is also a subsequent power of arrest for providing a name or address which is false or misleading.
So yes, yes you are legally obliged. Otherwise you are wide open to getting arrested/charged/summonsed. As already mentioned you become more suspicious when you refuse to give your name or become uncooperative.

matt-dublin

If a garda or you cannot prove your identity you can be detained Until such a time it can be ascertained

MagicSean

baldbear wrote: »

http://www.politics.ie/justice/97491-your-rights-how-deal-gardai.html

Answer in here! If you aren't breaking the law i don't see why you have to give you're name.

It's called common decency. Has become fairly scarce in todays Ireland.

Tigger wrote: »

Afaik it's an obligation to give name address where you live and where you are coming from

Here is some stuff from indymedia saying I'm wrong

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82108

They get their info from the Freemen of Ireland. Nothing but tripe.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Simple question here, does one have to tell a member of AGS their name and/or address? I'm not talking about after being arrested, or interviewed etc, but if a member of AGS asks for those details do you have to give them?

Take this situation for example, someone is handing out leaflets, a Garda comes over, asks both the person giving and a random passer by(who was given a leaflet) their names, do they have to give them?

You don't have to give your name if a Garda asks you under any legislation. However you may face some consequences to this. For example if you have been arrested and don't give your name you can be in custody until you do.

There are a number of Acts which allow a Garda to demand your name though. Littering, road traffic, puclic order, drugs, offences against the state, theft and firearms legislation all provide this power in certain circumstances. If you do not give correct details in an instance where a Garda has demanded them lawfully you can be arrested and charged for it.

source

OP do you mind if i ask....these leaflets you were handing out, what were they for?

Our man in Havana

In all honesty the Garda was probably investigating a complaint of littering.

Bosco boy

I would think the answer is in the content of the leaflet and maybe a complaint the Garda got about it, or maybe the Garda themselves has concerns as to the content.

who the fug

Keith186 wrote: »

Just tell them you're Mussolini for the laugh

Just don't be standing under a lamp post when you do

Wudyaquit

Bosco boy wrote: »

I would think the answer is in the content of the leaflet and maybe a complaint the Garda got about it, or maybe the Garda themselves has concerns as to the content.

Or maybe he was a nosey twat with nothing better to do

Bosco boy

Wudyaquit wrote: »

Or maybe he was a nosey twat with nothing better to do

He's paid to be nosey, twats an awful then to call him.

Wolfe Tone

foinse wrote: »

OP do you mind if i ask....these leaflets you were handing out, what were they for?

It was a hypothetical situation.

You don't have to give your name if a Garda asks you under any legislation. However you may face some consequences to this. For example if you have been arrested and don't give your name you can be in custody until you do.

There are a number of Acts which allow a Garda to demand your name though. Littering, road traffic, puclic order, drugs, offences against the state, theft and firearms legislation all provide this power in certain circumstances. If you do not give correct details in an instance where a Garda has demanded them lawfully you can be arrested and charged for it.

I probably would give my name, but I was curious as to what authority the garda had to ask for my name in an instance where I had done nothing wrong. So if I am just walking down the street and a garda asks my name, and wont give a reason as to why he is asking, I can say no and keep going?

MagicSean

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

It was a hypothetical situation.


I probably would give my name, but I was curious as to what authority the garda had to ask for my name in an instance where I had done nothing wrong. So if I am just walking down the street and a garda asks my name, and wont give a reason as to why he is asking, I can say no and keep going?

Yeah but don't expect to get very far before being stopped and having your name demanded.

Our man in Havana

But a Garda would need to invoke a statutory power to demand it in that situation.

MagicSean

Haddockman wrote: »

But a Garda would need to invoke a statutory power to demand it in that situation.

Yeah. But Gardaí don't go around asking for peoples name without a reason. They just ask first to give the person a chance to volunteer it.

Wolfe Tone

k_mac wrote: »

Yeah. But Gardaí don't go around asking for peoples name without a reason. They just ask first to give the person a chance to volunteer it.

Sometimes that reason is to intimidate though.

If I ask for a reason, am given none, then the garda would obviously be making one up the second time.

MagicSean

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Sometimes that reason is to intimidate though.

If I ask for a reason, am given none, then the garda would obviously be making one up the second time.

Yes that is certainly something you can mention in court afterwards. It probably won't stop the Garda arresting you though. What makes you think Gardaí pick out random people on the street to intimidate them?

Wolfe Tone

k_mac wrote: »

Yes that is certainly something you can mention in court afterwards. It probably won't stop the Garda arresting you though. What makes you think Gardaí pick out random people on the street to intimidate them?

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that a garda would do such is it?

Basically I don't want to be handing out my personal details for no reason. I was just thinking about the times I was asked for my name, I just gave it without any thought, and was curious as to whether I actually had to, I'm not having a go at Gards here, I know you are one.

Heres a situation, You witness a fight, a Garda shows up, breaks it up and asks you the passerby for your name. That happened me, I gave it, but I was a bit wary in doing so, I didnt want to be involved at all. If I said no, would I have been arrested?



Are we basically boiling down to you saying that a Garda will never ask for a name without a legal reason?

manta356

Haddockman wrote: »

In all honesty the Garda was probably investigating a complaint of littering.

The placing of leaflets on Cars etc is now an offence under the littering laws.Would it be possible that handing out leaflets come under this legislation as well.

Our man in Havana

manta356 wrote: »

The placing of leaflets on Cars etc is now an offence under the littering laws.Would it be possible that handing out leaflets come under this legislation as well.

It does.

How is being asked your name in broad daylight in a presumably busy area intimidation in any way? It's not exactly personal information is it.. If you go into a nightclub you hand the bouncer your ID and he has your full name. What could anyone possibly do with your name to harm you? It's not intimidation by the Guard, it is your own prejudiced view of the Gardai that you are projecting on the situation.

Why do you think would a Garda care who you are or what your name was if he was not conducting some part of his job?

Wolfe Tone

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

How is being asked your name in broad daylight in a presumably busy area intimidation in any way? It's not exactly personal information is it.. If you go into a nightclub you hand the bouncer your ID and he has your full name. What could anyone possibly do with your name to harm you? It's not intimidation by the Guard, it is your own prejudiced view of the Gardai that you are projecting on the situation.

Why do you think would a Garda care who you are or what your name was if he was not conducting some part of his job?

I personally found it quite intimidating having a garda ask my name and address and scribbling it down in his little book, maybe thats just me. I reject your allegation that I am prejudiced towards gardaí, I am not, in fact my experiences with AGS have all been grand. I was simply curious as to the legality of them expecting me, or anyone else, to supply my name and address.

source

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that a garda would do such is it?

Basically I don't want to be handing out my personal details for no reason. I was just thinking about the times I was asked for my name, I just gave it without any thought, and was curious as to whether I actually had to, I'm not having a go at Gards here, I know you are one.

Heres a situation, You witness a fight, a Garda shows up, breaks it up and asks you the passerby for your name. That happened me, I gave it, but I was a bit wary in doing so, I didnt want to be involved at all. If I said no, would I have been arrested?



Are we basically boiling down to you saying that a Garda will never ask for a name without a legal reason?

In this case, no you wouldn't be arrested. You were witness to an incident, it is the Garda's duty to get the details of anybody who would be able to provide evidence in a situation like this. You can in this instance, if you wish, refuse to give details and say you don't want any part in it.

detective

I dont even know why people are bothering giving the OP replies in this case. The OP has given a very vague scenario which needs to be clarified before anyone can answer him/her. Why didn't the OP say "can a Guard ask your name if you're walking down the street" rather than mentioning leaflets specifically.

Jesus I'd love to know how hypothetical the situation actually is and what the contents of the leaflets was if it in fact it isn't hypothetical at all. In this case an enormous amount would depend on the content of same.

Wolfe Tone

detective wrote: »

I dont even know why people are bothering giving the OP replies in this case. The OP has given a very vague scenario which needs to be clarified before anyone can answer him/her. Why didn't the OP say "can a Guard ask your name if you're walking down the street" rather than mentioning leaflets specifically.

Jesus I'd love to know how hypothetical the situation actually is and what the contents of the leaflets was if it in fact it isn't hypothetical at all. In this case an enormous amount would depend on the content of same.

I could have sworn that this would be the right place to come to seek legal clarification on when you are legally obliged to supply you name and or address to a member of AGS, I am not asking for advice, I just threw out a hypothetical scenario in which such may occur to try and get my point across.

Jesus.

You said that you were intimidated when the Garda asked you for your name and address even though you said you had just witnessed a row and surely anyone would realise this was part of a Garda investigation.

Perhaps you are particularly sensitive.

ILA

From the OPs other postings, I would gather the hypothetical situation would involve distributing leaflets promoting the ideas of dissident republican political groups and the hypothetical distributor would be in fear of having his details entered into the PULSE system's intelligence section without his notice.

From a academic point of view, I'd be interested in seeing if there's a definitive answer to this as well. Some will ask, whats wrong with putting them into databases? While I disagree with their politics, personally I'm opposed to such measures of surveillance and categorizing in a permanent system accessible all over the country, which is almost exempt from scrutiny.

I remember a young fella had his application for the gardai rejected because of a incorrect entry on the PULSE system (appeared in the Irish Independent a few months ago), and there's probably dozens more who've also found themselves the target of traffic stops and other restrictions due to their names appearing in such databases.

Wolfe Tone

ILA wrote: »

From the OPs other postings, I would gather the hypothetical situation would involve distributing leaflets promoting the ideas of dissident republican political groups and the hypothetical distributor would be in fear of having his details entered into the PULSE system's intelligence section without his notice.

What don't you understand about "hypothetical"? It was a random situation I made up, if I wanted to ask about that, I would. I hope you are not implying that I would be distributing such material?

WildOscar

k_mac wrote: »

Yes that is certainly something you can mention in court afterwards. It probably won't stop the Garda arresting you though. What makes you think Gardaí pick out random people on the street to intimidate them?

when you sue for false arrest. if thebgarda does not give a reason for wanting name why should you give it to him

ILA

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What don't you understand about "hypothetical"? It was a random situation I made up, if I wanted to ask about that, I would. I hope you are not implying that I would be distributing such material?

No sir, I was merely using my powers of deduction to add flesh to the bones of your hypothetical scenario.

We seem to be getting a lot of different answers from both legal discussion participants and posters who've popped in from the Emergency Services forum, possibly under the illusion that they got a definitive legal education at Templemore. First they've no right to ask, then its moved to the content of the leaflet, and now its deadpanning.

Its a very valid question, and as I outlined, it can have serious consequences for individuals. I certainly would not identify myself to any agent of the state unless legally obligated to do so.

Wolfe Tone

ILA wrote: »

No sir, I was merely using my powers of deduction to add flesh to the bones of your hypothetical scenario.

We seem to be getting a lot of different answers from both legal discussion participants and posters who've popped in from the Emergency Services forum, possibly under the illusion that they got a definitive legal education at Templemore. First they've no right to ask, then its moved to the content of the leaflet, and now its deadpanning.

Its a very valid question, and as I outlined, it can have serious consequences for individuals. I certainly would not identify myself to any agent of the state unless legally obligated to do so.

Fair enough, I thought you were having a go, Im sorry.

MagicSean

WildOscar wrote: »

when you sue for false arrest. if thebgarda does not give a reason for wanting name why should you give it to him

Like I said. It's called common decency. Not everyone has it though.

Wolfe Tone

k_mac wrote: »

Like I said. It's called common decency. Not everyone has it though.

Can you not understand why people would not want to give away such info?

WildOscar

k_mac wrote: »

Like I said. It's called common decency. Not everyone has it though.

yes a lot of cops lack common decency and seek to abuse their powers. what legislation covers common decency?

WildOscar

ILA wrote: »

No sir, I was merely using my powers of deduction to add flesh to the bones of your hypothetical scenario.

We seem to be getting a lot of different answers from both legal discussion participants and posters who've popped in from the Emergency Services forum, possibly under the illusion that they got a definitive legal education at Templemore. First they've no right to ask, then its moved to the content of the leaflet, and now its deadpanning.

Its a very valid question, and as I outlined, it can have serious consequences for individuals. I certainly would not identify myself to any agent of the state unless legally obligated to do so.

me neither. i would ask his name and what law his demanwas under.

Also the cop has no power to stop you unless he gives you a reason. no reason and you are free to go
http://www.iccl.ie/know-your-rights-criminal-justice-and-garda-powers.html
last week one was asking here about taking sample from drink drivers so templemore must not cut it

MagicSean

WildOscar wrote: »

yes a lot of cops lack common decency and seek to abuse their powers. what legislation covers common decency?

The Gardaí have a code which covers it. If you meet a Garda which doesn't show you common decency you should report them to the Ombudsman. I suspect you haven't though and your statement is purely malicious.

WildOscar wrote: »

me neither. i would ask his name and what law his demanwas under.

Also the cop has no power to stop you unless he gives you a reason. no reason and you are free to go
http://www.iccl.ie/know-your-rights-criminal-justice-and-garda-powers.html
last week one was asking here about taking sample from drink drivers so templemore must not cut it

I guess you're talking about my thread on drink driving in which I pose a hypothetical situation and asked how the legislation would apply. Unfortunately neither my time in Templemore or my four years studying law covered every possible situation that might arise. What it did teach me is that the law can be interpreted in anumber of ways. Perhaps your legal training was much better.

I noticed you linked the iccl booklet. Did you read it? The first section is entitled "When can a Garda stop me?" and the answer is

"A Garda can ask you to stop at any time."

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Can you not understand why people would not want to give away such info?

Yes i can understand why criminals would not want to give this information. I can't understand why an ordinary decent citizen would have any problem with a Garda asking their name. This is their job. Despite what you might think Gardaí don't pick people at random. If you are stopped it is because you match a description, you are near where a crime was committed, you are known to them or you are in a high crime area. Perfectly logical reasons don't you think. I can categorically tell you that there is no appeal in stopping a random person for no reason. It offers no "power trip" at all. There are things that Gardaí would much rather be doing.

Wolfe Tone

Yes i can understand why criminals would not want to give this information. I can't understand why an ordinary decent citizen would have any problem with a Garda asking their name. This is their job. Despite what you might think Gardaí don't pick people at random. If you are stopped it is because you match a description, you are near where a crime was committed, you are known to them or you are in a high crime area. Perfectly logical reasons don't you think. I can categorically tell you that there is no appeal in stopping a random person for no reason. It offers no "power trip" at all. There are things that Gardaí would much rather be doing.

Are you calling me a criminal because I am not too keen on giving my name? Its their job to act within the law, how dare you imply that someone like myself or another poster are criminals because we dont want to give away personal details for no legal reason, maybe you should deal with the legal issue here rather than what you think is decent or not.

WildOscar

k_mac wrote: »

The Gardaí have a code which covers it. If you meet a Garda which doesn't show you common decency you should report them to the Ombudsman. I suspect you haven't though and your statement is purely malicious.

was before the ombudsman and he lied his way out of it so don't tell me what cops do and don't do

"I noticed you linked the iccl booklet.

very observant

Did you read it? The first section is entitled "When can a Garda stop me?" and the answer is A Garda can ask you to stop at any time."

and they must have a reason and tell the reason or you are free to go

MagicSean

WildOscar wrote: »

was before the ombudsman and he lied his way out of it so don't tell me what cops do and don't do

That's one cop. There are about 15,000 others. If you wish to tar all of them with the one brush that's your perogative. I myself like to judge people on their individual merits.

WildOscar wrote: »

very observant

A Garda can ask you to stop at any time."

and they must have a reason and tell the reason or you are free to go

I haven't said otherwise.

WildOscar

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Are you calling me a criminal because I am not too keen on giving my name? Its their job to act within the law, how dare you imply that someone like myself or another poster are criminals because we dont want to give away personal details for no legal reason, maybe you should deal with the legal issue here rather than what you think is decent or not.

+1

MagicSean

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Are you calling me a criminal because I am not too keen on giving my name? Its their job to act within the law, how dare you imply that someone like myself or another poster are criminals because we dont want to give away personal details for no legal reason, maybe you should deal with the legal issue here rather than what you think is decent or not.

I didn't call you anything nor did i imply anything. You asked a question and I answered it. I have dealt with the legal issue already. I have also outlined other reasons why you should give your name. Unfortunately some posters took the opportunity to insult both me and my profession.

WildOscar

k_mac wrote: »

I myself like to judge people on their individual merits.

not up to you to judge anyone or say a comment is malicious because you think it is. you do not know it si

Wolfe Tone

k_mac wrote: »

I didn't call you anything nor did i imply anything. You asked a question and I answered it. I have dealt with the legal issue already. I have also outlined other reasons why you should give your name. Unfortunately some posters took the opportunity to insult both me and my profession.

You clearly implied that I, or anyone else not falling over themselves to give their details to a Garda, where something other than "ordinary decent citizens"

MagicSean

WildOscar wrote: »

not up to you to judge anyone or say a comment is malicious because you think it is. you do not know it si

I've as much right to judge your comment as you have to assume a lot of cops abuse their authoerity and lack common decency.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You clearly implied that I, or anyone else not falling over themselves to give their details to a Garda, where something other than "ordinary decent citizens"

No I didn't, I said I understood why a criminal would not want to give that information but didn't understand why an ordinary decent citizen wouldn't. If you would like to provide reasons i would gladly consider them.