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Garda asking for name

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Comments

  • #32
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    detective wrote: »
    I dont even know why people are bothering giving the OP replies in this case. The OP has given a very vague scenario which needs to be clarified before anyone can answer him/her. Why didn't the OP say "can a Guard ask your name if you're walking down the street" rather than mentioning leaflets specifically.

    Jesus I'd love to know how hypothetical the situation actually is and what the contents of the leaflets was if it in fact it isn't hypothetical at all. In this case an enormous amount would depend on the content of same.
    I could have sworn that this would be the right place to come to seek legal clarification on when you are legally obliged to supply you name and or address to a member of AGS, I am not asking for advice, I just threw out a hypothetical scenario in which such may occur to try and get my point across.

    Jesus.


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 653 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You said that you were intimidated when the Garda asked you for your name and address even though you said you had just witnessed a row and surely anyone would realise this was part of a Garda investigation.

    Perhaps you are particularly sensitive.


  • #34
    ILA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ILA


    From the OPs other postings, I would gather the hypothetical situation would involve distributing leaflets promoting the ideas of dissident republican political groups and the hypothetical distributor would be in fear of having his details entered into the PULSE system's intelligence section without his notice.

    From a academic point of view, I'd be interested in seeing if there's a definitive answer to this as well. Some will ask, whats wrong with putting them into databases? While I disagree with their politics, personally I'm opposed to such measures of surveillance and categorizing in a permanent system accessible all over the country, which is almost exempt from scrutiny.

    I remember a young fella had his application for the gardai rejected because of a incorrect entry on the PULSE system (appeared in the Irish Independent a few months ago), and there's probably dozens more who've also found themselves the target of traffic stops and other restrictions due to their names appearing in such databases.


  • #35
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    ILA wrote: »
    From the OPs other postings, I would gather the hypothetical situation would involve distributing leaflets promoting the ideas of dissident republican political groups and the hypothetical distributor would be in fear of having his details entered into the PULSE system's intelligence section without his notice.

    What don't you understand about "hypothetical"? It was a random situation I made up, if I wanted to ask about that, I would. I hope you are not implying that I would be distributing such material?


  • #36
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    k_mac wrote: »
    Yes that is certainly something you can mention in court afterwards. It probably won't stop the Garda arresting you though. What makes you think Gardaí pick out random people on the street to intimidate them?
    when you sue for false arrest. if thebgarda does not give a reason for wanting name why should you give it to him


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  • #37
    ILA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ILA


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    What don't you understand about "hypothetical"? It was a random situation I made up, if I wanted to ask about that, I would. I hope you are not implying that I would be distributing such material?
    No sir, I was merely using my powers of deduction to add flesh to the bones of your hypothetical scenario.

    We seem to be getting a lot of different answers from both legal discussion participants and posters who've popped in from the Emergency Services forum, possibly under the illusion that they got a definitive legal education at Templemore. First they've no right to ask, then its moved to the content of the leaflet, and now its deadpanning.

    Its a very valid question, and as I outlined, it can have serious consequences for individuals. I certainly would not identify myself to any agent of the state unless legally obligated to do so.


  • #38
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    ILA wrote: »
    No sir, I was merely using my powers of deduction to add flesh to the bones of your hypothetical scenario.

    We seem to be getting a lot of different answers from both legal discussion participants and posters who've popped in from the Emergency Services forum, possibly under the illusion that they got a definitive legal education at Templemore. First they've no right to ask, then its moved to the content of the leaflet, and now its deadpanning.

    Its a very valid question, and as I outlined, it can have serious consequences for individuals. I certainly would not identify myself to any agent of the state unless legally obligated to do so.
    Fair enough, I thought you were having a go, Im sorry.


  • #39
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    WildOscar wrote: »
    when you sue for false arrest. if thebgarda does not give a reason for wanting name why should you give it to him

    Like I said. It's called common decency. Not everyone has it though.


  • #40
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    k_mac wrote: »
    Like I said. It's called common decency. Not everyone has it though.
    Can you not understand why people would not want to give away such info?


  • #41
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    k_mac wrote: »
    Like I said. It's called common decency. Not everyone has it though.
    yes a lot of cops lack common decency and seek to abuse their powers. what legislation covers common decency?


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  • #42
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    ILA wrote: »
    No sir, I was merely using my powers of deduction to add flesh to the bones of your hypothetical scenario.

    We seem to be getting a lot of different answers from both legal discussion participants and posters who've popped in from the Emergency Services forum, possibly under the illusion that they got a definitive legal education at Templemore. First they've no right to ask, then its moved to the content of the leaflet, and now its deadpanning.

    Its a very valid question, and as I outlined, it can have serious consequences for individuals. I certainly would not identify myself to any agent of the state unless legally obligated to do so.
    me neither. i would ask his name and what law his demanwas under.

    Also the cop has no power to stop you unless he gives you a reason. no reason and you are free to go
    http://www.iccl.ie/know-your-rights-criminal-justice-and-garda-powers.html
    last week one was asking here about taking sample from drink drivers so templemore must not cut it


  • #43
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    WildOscar wrote: »
    yes a lot of cops lack common decency and seek to abuse their powers. what legislation covers common decency?

    The Gardaí have a code which covers it. If you meet a Garda which doesn't show you common decency you should report them to the Ombudsman. I suspect you haven't though and your statement is purely malicious.
    WildOscar wrote: »
    me neither. i would ask his name and what law his demanwas under.

    Also the cop has no power to stop you unless he gives you a reason. no reason and you are free to go
    http://www.iccl.ie/know-your-rights-criminal-justice-and-garda-powers.html
    last week one was asking here about taking sample from drink drivers so templemore must not cut it

    I guess you're talking about my thread on drink driving in which I pose a hypothetical situation and asked how the legislation would apply. Unfortunately neither my time in Templemore or my four years studying law covered every possible situation that might arise. What it did teach me is that the law can be interpreted in anumber of ways. Perhaps your legal training was much better.

    I noticed you linked the iccl booklet. Did you read it? The first section is entitled "When can a Garda stop me?" and the answer is

    "A Garda can ask you to stop at any time."
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Can you not understand why people would not want to give away such info?

    Yes i can understand why criminals would not want to give this information. I can't understand why an ordinary decent citizen would have any problem with a Garda asking their name. This is their job. Despite what you might think Gardaí don't pick people at random. If you are stopped it is because you match a description, you are near where a crime was committed, you are known to them or you are in a high crime area. Perfectly logical reasons don't you think. I can categorically tell you that there is no appeal in stopping a random person for no reason. It offers no "power trip" at all. There are things that Gardaí would much rather be doing.


  • #44
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Yes i can understand why criminals would not want to give this information. I can't understand why an ordinary decent citizen would have any problem with a Garda asking their name. This is their job. Despite what you might think Gardaí don't pick people at random. If you are stopped it is because you match a description, you are near where a crime was committed, you are known to them or you are in a high crime area. Perfectly logical reasons don't you think. I can categorically tell you that there is no appeal in stopping a random person for no reason. It offers no "power trip" at all. There are things that Gardaí would much rather be doing.

    Are you calling me a criminal because I am not too keen on giving my name? Its their job to act within the law, how dare you imply that someone like myself or another poster are criminals because we dont want to give away personal details for no legal reason, maybe you should deal with the legal issue here rather than what you think is decent or not.


  • #45
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    k_mac wrote: »
    The Gardaí have a code which covers it. If you meet a Garda which doesn't show you common decency you should report them to the Ombudsman. I suspect you haven't though and your statement is purely malicious.
    was before the ombudsman and he lied his way out of it so don't tell me what cops do and don't do



    "I noticed you linked the iccl booklet.
    very observant
    Did you read it? The first section is entitled "When can a Garda stop me?" and the answer is A Garda can ask you to stop at any time."
    and they must have a reason and tell the reason or you are free to go


  • #46
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    WildOscar wrote: »
    was before the ombudsman and he lied his way out of it so don't tell me what cops do and don't do

    That's one cop. There are about 15,000 others. If you wish to tar all of them with the one brush that's your perogative. I myself like to judge people on their individual merits.


    WildOscar wrote: »
    very observant

    A Garda can ask you to stop at any time."

    and they must have a reason and tell the reason or you are free to go

    I haven't said otherwise.


  • #47
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Are you calling me a criminal because I am not too keen on giving my name? Its their job to act within the law, how dare you imply that someone like myself or another poster are criminals because we dont want to give away personal details for no legal reason, maybe you should deal with the legal issue here rather than what you think is decent or not.
    +1


  • #48
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Are you calling me a criminal because I am not too keen on giving my name? Its their job to act within the law, how dare you imply that someone like myself or another poster are criminals because we dont want to give away personal details for no legal reason, maybe you should deal with the legal issue here rather than what you think is decent or not.

    I didn't call you anything nor did i imply anything. You asked a question and I answered it. I have dealt with the legal issue already. I have also outlined other reasons why you should give your name. Unfortunately some posters took the opportunity to insult both me and my profession.


  • #49
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    k_mac wrote: »
    I myself like to judge people on their individual merits.
    not up to you to judge anyone or say a comment is malicious because you think it is. you do not know it si


  • #50
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    k_mac wrote: »
    I didn't call you anything nor did i imply anything. You asked a question and I answered it. I have dealt with the legal issue already. I have also outlined other reasons why you should give your name. Unfortunately some posters took the opportunity to insult both me and my profession.
    You clearly implied that I, or anyone else not falling over themselves to give their details to a Garda, where something other than "ordinary decent citizens"


  • #51
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    WildOscar wrote: »
    not up to you to judge anyone or say a comment is malicious because you think it is. you do not know it si

    I've as much right to judge your comment as you have to assume a lot of cops abuse their authoerity and lack common decency.
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You clearly implied that I, or anyone else not falling over themselves to give their details to a Garda, where something other than "ordinary decent citizens"

    No I didn't, I said I understood why a criminal would not want to give that information but didn't understand why an ordinary decent citizen wouldn't. If you would like to provide reasons i would gladly consider them.


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  • #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 653 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The legal issue has been dealt with. No you are not obliged to give your name. Basically some of the people commenting on this are rude unhelpful people who won't assist our Police force in their duties because of a prejudice they have against the Gardai.

    If you ever need the Gardai and they are impeded in helping you by another rude unhelpful person then hopefully you will rethink your position.


  • #53
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    k_mac wrote: »
    I've as much right to judge your comment as you have to assume a lot of cops abuse their authoerity and lack common decency.
    you do not as you do not have anything to go on as they says on tv. i have my experience to go on. and it was not just one. the other lied to cover him and all of them joined ranks


  • #54
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    KeepTheFaith wrote: »
    The legal issue has been dealt with. No you are not obliged to give your name. Basically some of the people commenting on this are rude unhelpful people who won't assist our Police force in their duties because of a prejudice they have against the Gardai.
    or because they know their rights and cannot be lied to


  • #55
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You clearly implied that I, or anyone else not falling over themselves to give their details to a Garda, where something other than "ordinary decent citizens"
    absolutely by his/her definition of "ordinary decent citizens"


  • #56
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeepTheFaith wrote: »
    The legal issue has been dealt with. No you are not obliged to give your name. Basically some of the people commenting on this are rude unhelpful people who won't assist our Police force in their duties because of a prejudice they have against the Gardai.

    If you ever need the Gardai and they are impeded in helping you by another rude unhelpful person then hopefully you will rethink your position.
    I would argue that they are more impeded by the law itself rather than by people who have done nothing wrong.


  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 653 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I would argue that they are more impeded by the law itself rather than by people who have done nothing wrong.

    Legislatures obviously relied on the common sense and decency of people. Clearly you and Wildoscar do not have such common decency or at least do extend common decency to the Gardai. Thankfully a sizeable portion of the public do so.


  • #58
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeepTheFaith wrote: »
    Legislatures obviously relied on the common sense and decency of people. Clearly you and Wildoscar do not have such common decency or at least do extend common decency to the Gardai. Thankfully a sizeable portion of the public do so.
    Ah here get out of that, I already said I have always given my name, was wondering whether I had to or not.


  • #59
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    KeepTheFaith wrote: »
    Legislatures obviously relied on the common sense and decency of people. Clearly you and Wildoscar do not have such common decency or at least do extend common decency to the Gardai. Thankfully a sizeable portion of the public do so.
    you have some cheek to say who is common decent and who is not. you a cop too?


  • #60
    wee truck big driver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭wee truck big driver


    to turn things around a bit is a member of the gardai obliged to give you his name


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  • #61
    WildOscar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭WildOscar


    wee truck big driver wrote: »
    to turn things around a bit is a member of the gardai obliged to give you his name
    yes i believe so and his number, station, and super


This discussion has been closed.
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