Garda asking for name

Nehaxak

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Wow. You dont seem to know what my views are at all, I am not a dissident supporter, I support the GFA.

I never said you were a dissident supporter. In fact, if I thought you were, I wouldn't even have bothered replying. I presumed you were a student involved in handing out leaflets or something relating to leftist ideals of one sort or another. I never read the whole thread, I skimmed, so just read your first post and as I said, I was making assumptions and generalising and evidently I was wrong. However, don't be paranoid in thinking I was attacking you in any way, I wasn't or at least had not intended anything I wrote to come across that way.

Ive never handed out any leaflets, I am not a member of any party nor have I ever undertaken any action on behalf of any political group. In actual fact I very rarely discuss politics outside of the internet. It really was just a hypothetical situation!

Ive seen Gards asking people handing out leaflets their name and it was the first thing that popped into my head when thinking of an example to fatten up my original question!

The Gardaí don't just randomly ask people their name and address unless they have cause to do so, even if that might upset some people whose sole intentions are purely peaceful or even just idealogical. Wasn't so long ago that even visitors to the SF bookshop with absolutely no political/idealogical or otherwise links to anyone or anything, who are just there to buy a book and/or maybe get it signed if Gerry Adams happens to be around or have asked the lads in the shop there to get him to sign it for them and they'd pick it up later, were then subsequently stopped and asked for their name/address, what they were doing and so on by special branch as they left the shop. No malice as I saw was ever intended by the Gardaí, though a lot of people took offence regardless. I never saw it as a problem, Gardaí were always polite and chatty whenever I bought a book from there myself and was subsequently questioned in the street outside afterwards.

Anyway, far as I'm aware, you must provide your name and address to the Gardaí when asked for same. They're not obliged to give you a reason up front when asking for same but they are obliged to do so if you ask them, even if what they might reply with pisses you off.
You can refuse to give your name and address but you may be arrested and will have to fight through the courts (if it ever even got that far) to clear your name as and to whatever you were subsequently charged with. You would however have to give your name and address when brought to the station to be charged. So it's a loophole of sorts I guess that the Gardaí can use if you don't "obey their authoritor" in the first instance.
You can always make a complaint to the Garda ombudsman over the initial request for your name and address, and/or subsequent arrest especially if trumped up charges are levelled against you.
You can also just give your name and address, record the incident yourself at the time, get the Garda's number, car reg details etc., and then make a complaint afterwards to the Garda ombudsman.
If nobody complains, nothing will change.
I don't see a problem with it anyway myself but I understand the principal.

xE

Reloc8 wrote: »

A lot of the issues which people who are, to be fair, neither criminally orientated nor trouble makers, have with providing name and details on eh 'request' by a member of AGS comes from a total lack of clarity on the part of the force (that is to say its leadership) as to the following ;-

- are you keeping a record of this encounter/interaction ?
- will you create a record of it on PULSE ?
- or anywhere else ?
- for how long ?
- for what purpose ?
- on what legal basis ?
- to whom will it be disclosed ?
- for what purpose ?


Those aren't unreasonable questions, and its not for the ordinary garda on the street to answer them either, notwithstanding that as with many situations they are the ones who have to front up to the issues caused by the lack of clarity.

I think this is really the crux of the issue, to be honest.

MajorMax

xE wrote: »

I think this is really the crux of the issue, to be honest.

I agree

xE

It seems to be an unexplored area. I'm aware that a person can make a request under exisiting Data Protection legislation, but that sensitive (intelligence related information) held on them would not be realised for obvious reasons.

Clarity and/or oversight in this area would put to rest most of the fears expressed thus far in the thread.

blackcoat

MajorMax wrote: »

I agree

So why didnt you just say that instead of using this discussion to vent your 'personal' grievances at the Gardai through an ill-informed, unsbstantiated diatribe?

If these matters, which relate solely to clarity and providing people with better information (issues which do warrant further discussion), are 'the crux' of the issue why did you elect to attempt to scandalise the ENTIRE Garda force by calling them 'hopelessly corrupt' and describing even their very best work as 'inept'??

MajorMax

Bosco boy wrote: »

Majormax, I think in fairness you should state what your line of work is that brings you into contact at such a level with gardai to make such claims.

Jesus, a Guard wouldn't ask me that...................sorry.

Monty Burnz

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Wow. You dont seem to know what my views are at all, I am not a dissident supporter, I support the GFA.

Where did you find the implication that you were a dissident supporter in what he wrote?

Bosco boy

MajorMax wrote: »

Jesus, a Guard wouldn't ask me that...................sorry.

Probally not, but to answer it might give you some credability, some times we get walter mittys making claims and they eventually trip up.

Wolfe Tone

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Where did you find the implication that you were a dissident supporter in what he wrote?

In this line....

idealogical enough to publicly present yourself to openly express your views, probably seen as naive too (not saying that personally) and seen to be open to further persuasion to be involved in further activities or perception of same.

Reloc8

Bosco boy wrote: »

Probally not, but to answer it might give you some credability, some times we get walter mittys making claims and they eventually trip up.

Jesus H !

They're trying to trip us up !

Online !

But how to know if anyone who claims to be anything online is what they claim to be ?

This is a lot more serious than that 58 year old truck driver called steve who I met on www.cheerleaderchat.com. This is an attempt to stop people pretending to be whatever they want to pretend to be on the internet !!!!

yooooooooooOOOOOOooooooooooman riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiights are at stake.

Bosco boy

Jaysus! Jaysus! Calm down reloc 8!

Eh!

Have I touched a nerve!

wicklowstevo

you people think you are being violated and baused by the garda? what the feck is wrong with you , ? abby lara ? how long would that have lasted in america or any westren counrty ?the fact is the irrish police force is handcuffed by the stupidy of everyone wanting thier right to everything, this thread is about the right of a law enforcemet offical to know your name , to kow if you are wanted on warrent or not to know if you are a violent criminal , you stupid stupid people demand all the protectin that a state offers yet refuse to live by the laws that it makes ,? fine lets see how long you last in some 3rd world country

Wolfe Tone

wicklowstevo wrote: »

you people think you are being violated and baused by the garda? what the feck is wrong with you , ? abby lara ? how long would that have lasted in america or any westren counrty ?the fact is the irrish police force is handcuffed by the stupidy of everyone wanting thier right to everything, this thread is about the right of a law enforcemet offical to know your name , to kow if you are wanted on warrent or not to know if you are a violent criminal , you stupid stupid people demand all the protectin that a state offers yet refuse to live by the laws that it makes ,? fine lets see how long you last in some 3rd world country

What unintelligible tripe.

mcgarrett

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

What unintelligible tripe.

Actually, I thought it was one of the few posts on this thread that made sense.

wee truck big driver

wicklowstevo wrote: »

you people think you are being violated and baused by the garda? what the feck is wrong with you , ? abby lara ? how long would that have lasted in america or any westren counrty ?the fact is the irrish police force is handcuffed by the stupidy of everyone wanting thier right to everything, this thread is about the right of a law enforcemet offical to know your name , to kow if you are wanted on warrent or not to know if you are a violent criminal , you stupid stupid people demand all the protectin that a state offers yet refuse to live by the laws that it makes ,? fine lets see how long you last in some 3rd world country

the irish police force is handcuffed by stupidity alright

Bosco boy

wee truck big driver wrote: »

the irish police force is handcuffed by stupidity alright

Did you get a speeding ticket in your wee truck?

Reloc8

wicklowstevo wrote: »

you people think you are being violated and baused by the garda? what the feck is wrong with you , ? abby lara ? how long would that have lasted in america or any westren counrty ?the fact is the irrish police force is handcuffed by the stupidy of everyone wanting thier right to everything, this thread is about the right of a law enforcemet offical to know your name , to kow if you are wanted on warrent or not to know if you are a violent criminal , you stupid stupid people demand all the protectin that a state offers yet refuse to live by the laws that it makes ,? fine lets see how long you last in some 3rd world country

You're absolutely right.

The only option is either 1) 'some 3rd world country' where they shoot you on the side of the street unless you bribe them sufficiently or 2) a paranoid police state where a citizen can be stopped, questioned and detained for no objective reason beyond a law enforcement official wanting to know their name.

There is clearly no reasonable option in between those two things.

MagicSean

Reloc8 wrote: »

You're absolutely right.

The only option is either 1) 'some 3rd world country' where they shoot you on the side of the street unless you bribe them sufficiently or 2) a paranoid police state where a citizen can be stopped, questioned and detained for no objective reason beyond a law enforcement official wanting to know their name.

There is clearly no reasonable option in between those two things.

I think we have a good balance here. There should be a power to stop and search under the Theft and Fraud Offences Act (such as for a person hanging around an estate at 5a.m.) and there are some offences which require a power of detention (hit and run, assault). Addressing those issues would be a major step forward without any major effect on civil rights.

Reloc8

[QUOTE=k_mac;71156670]I think we have a good balance here. There should be a power to stop and search under the Theft and Fraud Offences Act (such as for a person hanging around an estate at 5a.m.) and there are some offences which require a power of detention (hit and run, assault). Addressing those issues would be a major step forward without any major effect on civil rights.[/QUOTE]

Exactly

I don't really disagree that the theft & fraud legislation would benefit from a provision similar enough to s. 23 Misuse of Drugs Act search.

In respect of hit and run, in principle I agree, noting however that s. 106 creates relevant offences, and that there is a general power to require a person to stop and keep stationary a vehicle for as long as necessary for a garda to do his duties under the act - which in case of an accident includes receiving relevant information, identity etc. Where that is complied with, in the absence of death or serious injury to a person, there is probably no need for detention. Where there is death or serious injury the offence is an arrestable offence already.

In respect of assault, I presume you refer to the fact that there is no power of arrest for s. 2 summary assault under the non-fatal offences against the person act 1997.

As regards arrest - in such cases there could be no problem with an arrest under the Public Order Act 1995 (if the assault happened in a public place).

Even if it did not, on the basis that harm includes pain, whether mental or physical, where a s. 2 assault involves a blow being struck, an arrest on suspicion of s. 3 is justified.

As regards detention, I don't know that a power of detention (for the proper investigation of the offence) is necessary for a summary assault or that the expense would be justified in respect of most of those cases - noting however that if the arrest is for a suspected s. 3, a detention is possible.

Bosco boy

Reloc8 wrote: »

You're absolutely right.

The only option is either 1) 'some 3rd world country' where they shoot you on the side of the street unless you bribe them sufficiently or 2) a paranoid police state where a citizen can be stopped, questioned and detained for no objective reason beyond a law enforcement official wanting to know their name.

There is clearly no reasonable option in between those two things.

The judges rules might be a reasonable option in between! just cause a Garda asks a person their name doesn't mean they haven't reason, I couldn't give a rats ass who you are unless I need it as part of an investigation into an offence or possible offence

Lavattack

I have to just "lol" cos its bringing back memories for me. When we were young any time one of us got in trouble we would give the same guys name and adress and phone number. He has got numerous phone calls from the Gardai and just randomers over the years and has the same number since we were kids so still gets a bitta grief when we feel like having fun lol.

I know i didnt help in any way with the OP's question sorry

wee truck big driver

Bosco boy wrote: »

Did you get a speeding ticket in your wee truck?

anything i get is filed carefuly in the nearest bin

MagicSean

wee truck big driver wrote: »

anything i get is filed carefuly in the nearest bin

Hero

Bosco boy

wee truck big driver wrote: »

anything i get is filed carefuly in the nearest bin

Not very smart! Can prove very costly!

Our man in Havana

Not if the Gardaí cannot trace you.

Locust

Unless you are a hermit living on a rock off Achill Island for the next ten years... its very easy to trace/find people... even more so if you are police.

wee truck big driver

Bosco boy wrote: »

Not very smart! Can prove very costly!

have saved myself a few hundred and a few penalty points so far gaurd

Bosco boy

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Not if the Gardaí cannot trace you.

You mean the big driver in the wee truck!

Bosco boy

wee truck big driver wrote: »

have saved myself a few hundred and a few penalty points so far gaurd

Keep going and you'll be a millionaire soon!

wee truck big driver

Bosco boy wrote: »

Keep going and you'll be a millionaire soon!

based on what all i am doing is saving myself a few pound that actually makes it worth while actually getting out of bed in the morning if the gardai and rsa had their way i would make more on the dole. then whose going to pay the gardai 100,000 a year for driving the ministers around