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Prostitution in Ireland.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    28064212 wrote: »
    Because if she chooses to do so it is not my right to stop her


    You missed the part where I said I would be perfectly ok with it if that was their choice. I would be no more opposed to her working as a safe, regulated prostitute than I would be with her working in many other currently legal jobs

    Do you think little girls grow up wishing to become a prostitute one day?
    Coz they dont!

    Here is a link to a study that surveyed 475 male, female and trans-gender prostitutes in 5 countries including the USA. In Nevada prostitution is legal and supposedly "safe".


    http://fap.sagepub.com/content/8/4/405.abstract



    Read the results yourself 96% wanted to leave prostitution, 62% reported being raped since entering prostitution.

    Would you still be happy for your little girl to work in this profession.
    Try not to be stubborn actually think about the reality of the situation!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭CorkMan


    How many women in the RLD want to leave?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    CorkMan wrote: »
    How many women in the RLD want to leave?

    Why dont you do some research and find out


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭AndrewS


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »

    Hands up who would be happy with their daughter being the prostitute in question? Or a prostitute at all?

    Who are we to dictate what profession our children enter? Would you feel comfortable being shoehorned into becoming a coal miner when you really wanted to be a politician? What if you were never allowed realise your dreams of becoming a scientist if you were forced to become a farmer instead?

    Perhaps I might be unhappy, but that does not mean I would try to prevent her from entering the profession, or in fact any profession. The role of a parent is to protect and encourage their children to pursue anything they want to do. What would be more important to me would be that my child was safe in her job and happy. And if by doing that job she could bring something to a person's life that they might not otherwise have, then so be it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    AndrewS wrote: »
    Who are we to dictate what profession our children enter? Would you feel comfortable being shoehorned into becoming a coal miner when you really wanted to be a politician? What if you were never allowed realise your dreams of becoming a scientist if you were forced to become a farmer instead?

    Nobody is asking you if you would "dictate" or "shoehorn" your daughter. You were asked if you would be happy about your daughter spreading her legs every day to random men for money.

    Would you?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,533 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    eilo1 wrote: »
    Do you think little girls grow up wishing to become a prostitute one day?
    Coz they dont!
    Do they grow up wanting to be accountants? Completely meaningless argument.
    eilo1 wrote: »
    Here is a link to a study that surveyed 475 male, female and trans-gender prostitutes in 5 countries including the USA. In Nevada prostitution is legal and supposedly "safe".

    http://fap.sagepub.com/content/8/4/405.abstract

    Read the results yourself 96% wanted to leave prostitution, 62% reported being raped since entering prostitution.
    What percentage of McDonalds staff want to leave it? And rape is a crime, regardless of profession.

    That study uses one country that has legalised, regulated prostitution (Turkey, the US has one state from 50), and local governments have artificially reduced the licenses available there, so it's completely irrelevant.
    eilo1 wrote: »
    Would you still be happy for your little girl to work in this profession.
    Try not to be stubborn actually think about the reality of the situation!
    *Sigh* Read this post, I quite clearly stated my position
    28064212 wrote: »
    You missed the part where I said I would be perfectly ok with it if that was their choice. I would be no more opposed to her working as a safe, regulated prostitute than I would be with her working in many other currently legal jobs

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭AndrewS


    MazG wrote: »
    I am saying that I'm very uncomfortable with the attitude that people are entitled to sexual gratification. That it's something everyone should be able to demand

    Can you imagine the fights if some bloke walks up to some really attractive girl in a bar who is standing next to her brick built boyfriend and demanding sexual gratification? Sexual gratification is not an inalienable human right, but it is one of our baser instincts and part of our natural biological process. That doesn't mean we can demand it of anyone.
    I would get absolutely nothing out of sexual intercourse with a person I don't know or like. I wouldn't have sex with a prostitute, just as I wouldn't have a one night stand purely for the purposes of the sex itself. For me sex isn't enjoyable unless you like the person and they like you.

    My feelings exactly, well said.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭AndrewS


    AndrewS wrote: »
    Perhaps I might be unhappy, but that does not mean I would try to prevent her from entering the profession, or in fact any profession. The role of a parent is to protect and encourage their children to pursue anything they want to do. What would be more important to me would be that my child was safe in her job and happy. And if by doing that job she could bring something to a person's life that they might not otherwise have, then so be it.
    eilo1 wrote: »
    Nobody is asking you if you would "dictate" or "shoehorn" your daughter. You were asked if you would be happy about your daughter spreading her legs every day to random men for money.

    Would you?

    I have already stated that I might not be happy. In fact, I would most likely be unhappy. As other users have said, there are plenty of jobs, legal or otherwise, that would bother me should a child of mine choose to do it. But, that does not give me the right to prevent them from doing it. It would be their choice to do it. It would not be my place to stop them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    AndrewS - So it isn't your place to seek to prohibit your child becoming a heroin pusher?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭AndrewS


    Jakkass wrote: »
    AndrewS - So it isn't your place to seek to prohibit your child becoming a heroin pusher?

    Thats not a profession. Its an illegal activity. As has been pointed out, prostitution is not illegal.

    And yes, I would do everything in my power to stop my child from even becoming involved in the use or distribution of illegal drugs. And if I have done my job as a father, then my children wont see the need to use. Thats just the way I was brought up and the way I intend to bring my children up.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭maxextz


    no way.id be afraid getting something off her and most seem to be junkies and as an earlier poster stated why would you have sex with someone that hates your type "ie punter"

    if you hard up then go for it.:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,533 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Jakkass wrote: »
    It's wholly relevant when it is a huge problem. As for being paid below minimum in construction, I would support people going through construction to resolve this. The very act of prostituting is wholly different to that of working in the construction sector or gardening, or whatever other absurd comparison that will be brought to the table, there is a clear difference.
    In your opinion. You have not shown how or why, other than to say it's based on "morality", which is solely your opinion
    Jakkass wrote: »
    There absolutely is. The idea that people can do much much better, and that we as society should be able to help people to do better.
    Way to completely ignore the point. What makes prostitution different from hundreds of other crappy jobs?
    Jakkass wrote: »
    I'm not going to answer anything based on homosexuality because it has no comparison to prostitution. Prostitution cannot be said with certainty to be absolutely consensual, this is what makes it different.
    Homosexuality (or heterosexuality for that matter) cannot be said to be absolutely consensual. That's why things like rape, grooming, abuse, paedophilia etc are all illegal. What does it have to do with consensual prostitution.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    It will continue to happen under the legal veneer of prostitution.
    And rape happens under the legal veneer of consensual sex. What's the point?
    Jakkass wrote: »
    My point of view. Let's tackle these too and restore good standards for dealing with employees in larger society.
    So you think jobs where people aren't respected should be made illegal?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,343 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    eilo1 wrote: »
    Do you think little girls grow up wishing to become a prostitute one day?
    Coz they dont

    the "why can't we think of the children" argument rears its head i see

    would you be happy if your daughter wanted to become a porn star?? how is that any different?? would you be happy if your son told you he was gay but he only fancied gangbangs with 6ft 10 350lb black men, short answer it ain't none of your or my business

    again this debate isn't about the rights and wrongs of prostitution, its about whether it should be legalised or kept illegal

    according to reports, legal prostitutes have high job satisfaction akin to women working in more regular jobs, while illegal prostitutes as you would expect have low job satisfaction, and are often raped and beaten http://www.impactlab.net/2007/03/01/legal-prostitutes-report-high-job-satisfaction/

    if we keep prostitution illegal, women in the profession will continue to be raped, beaten, trafficked in huge numbers because the industry is unregulated


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    28064212 wrote: »
    Do they grow up wanting to be accountants? Completely meaningless argument.

    People do grow up wanting to be accountants so in effect :rolleyes:

    [/QUOTE]That study uses one country that has legalised, regulated prostitution (Turkey, the US has one state from 50), and local governments have artificially reduced the licenses available there, so it's completely irrelevant.[/QUOTE]

    There are brothels in Nevada Louise Therouxe actually did a documentary a couple of years ago on brothels in Nevada.

    The worrying thing that this debate highlights is how out of touch with reality some people are about the affects of prostitution. The damage it does to the people who prostitute themselves is widely acknowledged by health professionals. To compare becoming an accountant to becoming a prostitute is really and truly frightening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭panda100



    Its the oldest profession in the world and its near impossible to police.

    Lazy,untrue cliche is stupid and Im tired of hearing it. There are a million professions that would predate selling ones body,midwifery for example.
    Also just because something has a long history doesnt make it right?Slavery was around for hundreds of centuries,shall we bring that back to?

    The escort industry in Ireland is disgusting. Punters scoring the women on looks and performance is sick. I feel sorry for the women working in the sex industry, all mainly from Eastern Europe and China.They're just trying to build a better life for themselves. I dont have a problem with them , but the men who use their 'services' are basically rapists who alleviate their guilt by giving financial payment.

    I await for the Boards punters to leap to the prostitutes defence and say they 'chose' to enter such a career. If its such a lucrative profession why are there hardly any Irish women in it (Theres only 5 in total on Escort Ireland)?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    I dont see a difference in working in porn or prostitution with the exception that the lesser volumes of "partners" and the fact that there are more people present may in fact make porn stars slightly more safe than prostitutes.

    Here is nice referenced article about women working in "legalised" brothela in the USA.

    6. LEGALIZATION/DECRIMINALIZATION
    OF PROSTITUTION DOES NOT PROTECT THE WOMEN
    IN PROSTITUTION
    In two studies in which 186 victims of commercial sexual exploitation were
    interviewed, women consistently indicated that prostitution establishments
    did little to protect them, regardless of whether the establishments were legal
    or illegal. One woman said, “The only time they protect anyone is to protect
    the customers” (Raymond, Hughes, & Gomez, 2001; Raymond, d’Cunha,
    Ruhaini Dzuhayatin, Hynes, & Santos, 2002).


    Maybe educating men on the negative affects of prostitution would lower the demand rather than legalise the trade and endanger more women.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,533 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    eilo1 wrote: »
    People do grow up wanting to be accountants so in effect :rolleyes:
    Wow. You got me there. Oh wait, no, you can just replace that with any of the hundreds of jobs that nobody grows up wanting to be. That argument has zero merit
    eilo1 wrote: »
    There are brothels in Nevada Louise Therouxe actually did a documentary a couple of years ago on brothels in Nevada.
    ...and? That is exactly what I said, there is one state which has legalised and regulated prostitution. So in the 5 countries from your study, one country and one US state have regulated prostitution, and in Turkey local governments have effectively prevented people from becoming legal prostitutes, so really just one state. So I'm not sure what place your study has in a discussion on legalising and regulating prostitution, given it has no breakdown of legal vs illegal
    eilo1 wrote: »
    The worrying thing that this debate highlights is how out of touch with reality some people are about the affects of prostitution. The damage it does to the people who prostitute themselves is widely acknowledged by health professionals.
    Where are these health professionals who acknowledge that legal, regulated prostitution is damaging? No-one on the prohibition side has provided any such links, and the link above says the exact opposite, so you'll excuse me if I don't take it as a given
    eilo1 wrote: »
    To compare becoming an accountant to becoming a prostitute is really and truly frightening.
    Nice to see your hysteria hasn't clouded your... oh... never mind. Can you point to where anybody compared becoming a prostitute to becoming an accountant?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    AndrewS wrote: »
    Thats not a profession. Its an illegal activity. As has been pointed out, prostitution is not illegal.

    And yes, I would do everything in my power to stop my child from even becoming involved in the use or distribution of illegal drugs. And if I have done my job as a father, then my children wont see the need to use. Thats just the way I was brought up and the way I intend to bring my children up.

    Why wouldn't you do this for any of your children who sought to prostitute themselves? It seems to make very little sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    panda100 wrote: »
    If its such a lucrative profession why are there hardly any Irish women in it (Theres only 5 in total on Escort Ireland)?

    I would say there are many reasons why. They probably overlap with the same reasons why there are so few Irish women involved in the porn/glamor modelling industry. Many do not want to run the risk of being identified by friends/family/neighbors and the negative connotations those people might have of the industry. I also think that more Irish women tend to have a more negative view of sexuality than continental Europe. It isn't all women but there is definitely a more conservative element associated with some Irish women. This is a social construct due primarily I would say due to the power the Catholic church exercised in this country. This influence is gradually being eroded and Irish women are becoming more open about their sexuality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭baalthor


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    I would say there are many reasons why. They probably overlap with the same reasons why there are so few Irish women involved in the porn/glamor modelling industry. Many do not want to run the risk of being identified by friends/family/neighbors and the negative connotations those people might have of the industry. I also think that more Irish women tend to have a more negative view of sexuality than continental Europe. It isn't all women but there is definitely a more conservative element associated with some Irish women. This is a social construct due primarily I would say due to the power the Catholic church exercised in this country. This influence is gradually being eroded and Irish women are becoming more open about their sexuality.

    Until the 90s the Irish prostitution scene was composed of mostly Irish women. And as has been mentioned already, Dublin was notorious for prostitution in the 19th and early 20th centuries.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭AndrewS


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Why wouldn't you do this for any of your children who sought to prostitute themselves? It seems to make very little sense.

    See now, you are assuming that I disagree with prostitution. Just because I dont frequent them doesnt mean that I disapprove of it. You may think it hypocritical, but its not. My attitudes towards the profession dont dictate how I act. I really wish you would read the posts.

    Prostitution is not illegal, despite your apparent moral objection to it. Drug trafficking and dealing IS illegal. As much as I would not want my child to become a prostitute, I wouldnt want her to become a cage fighter or soldier or something dangerous. But, if she should choose of her own free will to do something like that, then that is her CHOICE. And I will support her choice whether I agree or not.

    I fully accept that there are some women that are forced into it, and I think thats deplorable. But you must realise that there are plenty of women who choose to become prostitutes. And they apparently actually enjoy it. Whether its because they love sex, or because they enjoy the human interaction, it doesnt matter. They do it because they want to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    [/QUOTE]

    Where are these health professionals who acknowledge that legal, regulated prostitution is damaging? No-one on the prohibition side has provided any such links, and the link above says the exact opposite, so you'll excuse me if I don't take it as a given


    Nice to see your hysteria hasn't clouded your... oh... never mind. Can you point to where anybody compared becoming a prostitute to becoming an accountant?[/QUOTE]

    Here is a nice well referenced article from a respectable publication for you.

    http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sexual-offenses/content/article/10168/48311


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    AndrewS wrote: »
    But you must realise that there are plenty of women who choose to become prostitutes. And they apparently actually enjoy it. Whether its because they love sex, or because they enjoy the human interaction, it doesnt matter. They do it because they want to.

    No this is what you must realise

    "Regardless of prostitution's status (legal, illegal or decriminalized) or its physical location (strip club, massage parlor, street, escort/home/hotel), prostitution is extremely dangerous for women. Homicide is a frequent cause of death (Potterat et al., 2004).

    Prolonged and repeated trauma precedes entry into prostitution, with most women beginning prostitution as sexually abused adolescents (Bagley and Young, 1987; Belton, 1992; Dworkin, 1997; Farley and Barkan, 1998; Silbert and Pines, 1983b, 1981; Simons and Whitbeck, 1991) (Table 1). Homelessness is frequently a precipitating event to prostitution. Women in prostitution are frequently raped and physically assaulted (Farley et al., 2003; Hunter, 1994; Miller, 1995; Parriott, 1994; Silbert and Pines, 1983a)."

    That is the difference between a girl wanting to be an accountant or working in mac donalds. These girls are victims they do not go into prostitution because of a high sex drive!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    panda100 wrote: »
    Lazy,untrue cliche is stupid and Im tired of hearing it. There are a million professions that would predate selling ones body,midwifery for example.

    Since there are so many, surely you can give more than one? Also, got a link or anything to back up your claim? I doubt midwifery (is that even a word?) is around as long as as prostitution. It's a fairly modern concept.
    Also just because something has a long history doesnt make it right?

    Who said that?
    Slavery was around for hundreds of centuries,shall we bring that back to?

    Are you trying to equate slavery to prostitution?
    The escort industry in Ireland is disgusting. Punters scoring the women on looks and performance is sick. I feel sorry for the women working in the sex industry, all mainly from Eastern Europe and China.They're just trying to build a better life for themselves. I dont have a problem with them , but the men who use their 'services' are basically rapists who alleviate their guilt by giving financial payment.

    Rapists, eh??? :rolleyes:
    I await for the Boards punters to leap to the prostitutes defence and say they 'chose' to enter such a career. If its such a lucrative profession why are there hardly any Irish women in it (Theres only 5 in total on Escort Ireland)?

    It's not appealing? There are many risks involved? Plenty of reasons why people wouldn't enter the industry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,533 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    eilo1 wrote: »
    Here is a nice well referenced article from a respectable publication for you.

    http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sexual-offenses/content/article/10168/48311
    That is an opinion piece. It's the equivalent of an editorial in a newspaper. It has references to many studies, but does not specify which, if any, are in legalised, regulated areas. The only mention of legalised prostitution is in a paragraph which references Potterat et al., 2004:
    eilo1 wrote: »
    "Regardless of prostitution's status (legal, illegal or decriminalized) or its physical location (strip club, massage parlor, street, escort/home/hotel), prostitution is extremely dangerous for women. Homicide is a frequent cause of death (Potterat et al., 2004).
    ...which was based in its entirety in Colorado which has never even legalised prostitution, never mind regulated it. Do you have any original research in legalised, regulated prostitution areas? Do any of them study non-trafficked, consenting prostitutes?

    Here's one (Australia) that directly contradicts what you claim. Here's another (PDF, UK). And another (New Zealand). Clearly, it is not "widely acknowledged" by health professionals that legal, regulated prostitution is damaging

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Darlughda


    Below is an extract from the Sex Workers Alliance Ireland
    http://www.sexworkersalliance.ie/index.php?p=5

    Q. What type of services do sex workers need?

    Like all other workers, sex workers need access to the full range of services that are targeted at the general population including housing, health and social support services.

    Unlike other workers, they need labour rights, and the right to work in an environment free from violence, harassment or intimidation.
    They also need equality, social inclusion and the right to self determination and the right to legal protection as workers.

    Q. Are sex workers victims of violence?

    Sadly in some instances they are victims of violence, those who work on the street are most vulnerable and this is true for both female and male sex workers.
    Studies show that there is less likelihood of violence from regular customers. Due to stigma and fear of prosecution, sex workers are often reluctant to report incidences of violence to the Gardai.

    It is also worth remembering that people who are violent towards sex workers are not always clients but are criminals engaging in violent assaults specifically targeting sex workers. In Liverpool crimes against sex workers are defined as hate crimes.

    Q. Do sex workers choose their line of work?

    Not all sex workers are the same; some enjoy this line of work while others would prefer to do something else, although may have limited options when it comes to earning an income. Many sex workers work part time, attracted by the flexible working hours and the autonomy and freedom it offers them. Others report that they like being their own boss.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    28064212 wrote: »
    That is an opinion piece. It's the equivalent of an editorial in a newspaper. It has references to many studies, but does not specify which, if any, are in legalised, regulated areas. The only mention of legalised prostitution is in a paragraph which references Potterat et al., 2004:

    ...which was based in its entirety in Colorado which has never even legalised prostitution, never mind regulated it. Do you have any original research in legalised, regulated prostitution areas? Do any of them study non-trafficked, consenting prostitutes?
    Why dont you look them up there are 7 refernces there that state the damages of Prostitution on the persons psychology regardless of physically being mistreated.

    Here's one (Australia) that directly contradicts what you claim. Here's another (PDF, UK). And another (New Zealand). Clearly, it is not "widely acknowledged" by health professionals that legal, regulated prostitution is damaging

    Sorry you expect me to take something from WAS video seriously! oh and the funding for that piece was the "Prostitution Licensing Authority" clearly a conflict of interest there.

    Your 2nd piece states "approximately to 6
    per cent of female interviewees, felt that they had been deceived and forced into selling sex in
    circumstances within which they had no share of control or consent"
    So you think its okay for 6 out of 100 prostitutes to have this experience!! :eek:

    Here is quote of the main results from your last article
    "Sex workers were less likely to be married and had been exposed to more adult physical and sexual abuse than the comparison group. They were more likely to smoke and to drink heavily when they drank. One-third said that their general practitioner was not aware of their work. A subgroup not working with regular clients or in a massage parlour had higher GHQ-28 scores and may be an at-risk group. Narrative information about the work, particularly its intermittent nature, is presented."


    What exactly is your point do you want more women and men prostituting themselves?

    If the evidence you have presented is so appealing to you why are you not working in the industry?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭AndrewS


    eilo1 wrote: »
    No this is what you must realise

    "Regardless of prostitution's status (legal, illegal or decriminalized) or its physical location (strip club, massage parlor, street, escort/home/hotel), prostitution is extremely dangerous for women. Homicide is a frequent cause of death (Potterat et al., 2004).

    Prolonged and repeated trauma precedes entry into prostitution, with most women beginning prostitution as sexually abused adolescents (Bagley and Young, 1987; Belton, 1992; Dworkin, 1997; Farley and Barkan, 1998; Silbert and Pines, 1983b, 1981; Simons and Whitbeck, 1991) (Table 1). Homelessness is frequently a precipitating event to prostitution. Women in prostitution are frequently raped and physically assaulted (Farley et al., 2003; Hunter, 1994; Miller, 1995; Parriott, 1994; Silbert and Pines, 1983a)."

    That is the difference between a girl wanting to be an accountant or working in mac donalds. These girls are victims they do not go into prostitution because of a high sex drive!!!

    And I am absolutely sure that there are literally hundreds more studies that exist on the lives and motivations of prostitutes. Each will be as conflicting as the next. Its like surveys and reports on alcohol consumption. Some say that drinking in moderation is fine, yet others tell you that drinking alcohol will give you oral cancer. Studies and reports are commissioned to answer leading questions. Such as: Question, are prostitutes victims of physical, emotional and sexual assault? Answer, yes some of them are. Or: Question, can alcohol contribute to an increased risk of developing oral cancer? Answer, yes it can but there are a whole host of other factors that contribute to increasing your risk.

    But the problem is, most people will only latch onto and listen to that one word. Three little letters. YES.

    Id respectfully suggest that you go and interview a range of prostitutes be they Irish, or non nationals or English or whatever. And you should interview them and ask them a bout their motivations for becoming one a prostitute, whether or not they enjoy their work and if they have been subject to violent abuse and assault by a punter.

    Im not saying such violence doesnt happen. What Im saying is that it does not happen to all of them. And yes, I agree that such violence is awful. Sadly there are some very sick and sad individuals out there that feel its acceptable to beat the crap out of a prostitute, or indeed any woman.

    But I take great issue with your suggestion that the majority of prostitutes are victims of sexual abuse prior to entering the business. You seem to suggest from what you say that just because a girl is abused in her childhood or teen years that she is automatically destined to become a prostitute. If that were the case, dont you think there would be hundreds of thousands of prostitutes in Ireland?

    Like it or not, prostitution is legal in Ireland. I have not ever and never would use the services of one. Do I feel it should be fully legalised and regulated? Yes, I do. And that to be honest, is the core of this thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    A few things:

    1. The fact that many prostitutes have suffered violence or drug addiction is upsetting, but it's not necessarily a marker for the danger of the profession itself. Prostitution may cause drug use, but it may equally be caused by drug use (needing money for a fix) or both may be caused by a separate factor. We don't know, but we can safely say that the one example in which prostitution may be an agent of active harm - if it causes drug use - is a situation which would be better if prostitution were legal.

    2. Many of the women in the industry are foreign nationals. It used to be mainly Irish, but that changed as time went on and Irishwomen began to see it as largely beneath them. They don't want to do the job, but sometimes they have to in order to make ends meet. Some have been trafficked. Prostitution or work as a cleaner? There are plenty of dead-end jobs staffed by people in bad situations under the thumb of an abusive boss. But that's not limited to prostitution, and it's not universal within prostitution. Again, legalisation improves that.

    3. Seriously now: what makes prostitution different to manual labour? I'm not being flippant; I want to know what makes a brickie different to a brasser. And none of this nonsense about sex being special or anything. What makes one concretely different to the other?


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    eilo1 wrote: »
    Sorry you expect me to take something from WAS video seriously! oh and the funding for that piece was the "Prostitution Licensing Authority" clearly a conflict of interest there.
    So your response is that you have no response to the points raised? Do you debate their methodology? Do you think they made up their results?
    eilo1 wrote: »
    Your 2nd piece states "approximately to 6
    per cent of female interviewees, felt that they had been deceived and forced into selling sex in
    circumstances within which they had no share of control or consent"
    So you think its okay for 6 out of 100 prostitutes to have this experience!! :eek:
    And once again you manage to be competely unable to even see the argument, never mind debate it. 94% of the interviewees said they were not deceived or forced into it. But since it's illegal in the UK, the police and other groups devote their time to prosecuting the entire group, rather than the 6% that actually need help. And the 6% that need help, are criminalized and are not likely to come forward.

    And, once again, since you seem to ignore it every other time, no-one is looking for that 6% to become legalised. We're looking for the 94% that aren't forced or deceived to be legalised and be able to be provided with legal recognition, and the rights and supports that come along with that.

    Have you any rebuttal to the rest of the points raised in that paper, which directly contradict many of the claims you've made? Or are you just going to stick to the one sentence from the 51 pages?
    eilo1 wrote: »
    Here is quote of the main results from your last article
    "Sex workers were less likely to be married and had been exposed to more adult physical and sexual abuse than the comparison group. They were more likely to smoke and to drink heavily when they drank. One-third said that their general practitioner was not aware of their work. A subgroup not working with regular clients or in a massage parlour had higher GHQ-28 scores and may be an at-risk group. Narrative information about the work, particularly its intermittent nature, is presented."
    So if I find a study saying that taxi drivers are more stressed than the general populace, we can ban them? What about labourers who drink more? I'm not sure what marriage rates have to do with anything. And this study managed to identify a sub-group that may be at risk, so resources can be moved to support that sub-group, rather than target the whole industry.
    eilo1 wrote: »
    What exactly is your point do you want more women and men prostituting themselves?
    Not particularly. I don't want more reality tv producers or contestants either. I don't want more bankers, accountants, farmers or any of a thousand other jobs. What business is it of mine? What I want is the freedom for people to choose what they want to do.
    eilo1 wrote: »
    If the evidence you have presented is so appealing to you why are you not working in the industry?
    Where have I said I'm not? Where I have I made any claims about what I want for my life? I haven't, because it's so incredibly irrelevant to the topic at hand

    Since you ignored the question last time, have you any links to original research in legalised, regulated prostitution areas that back up your claims? Do any of them study non-trafficked, consenting prostitutes? I have provided links which back up my claims, you could at least have the courtesy to provide yours.

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