[US/IRL] 6x15 - "Across The Sea" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Benny Lava · 12-05-2010 7:22pm

joe123 wrote: »

What a load of utter nonsense. Did they come up with this script last week or something?

It felt like that at times, yeah.

RolandIRL · 12-05-2010 7:30pm

8

can we discuss theories in this thread? i'll just put spoiler tags around it just in case.

does anyone else think that desmond is "special"? i was talking about this with my brother (another lost fan) and we kept noticing that "the rules don't apply to you, Desmond" which would explain why Smoke Monster is so scared of Desmond, because if the rules don't apply to Desmond, then he must be able to kill anyone (the candidates/FLocke, whoever). just a theory, but desmond must be special because how else is he able to survive the EM blast Widmore subjected him to?

MisterAnarchy · 12-05-2010 7:51pm

3

OisinT wrote: »

I totally agree with you on some major points you've made. I absolutely hated this episode, like 1/10. I may have enjoyed it more if it wasn't the 3rd to last episode, but they're really taking the piss now.

Its very similar to the latter episodes of another recent series ,Battlestar Galactica.
The writers gave themselves too big a story arc with too many unknowns and when the time came to wrap things up ,they couldnt do it so they left some things vague and for the rest they introduced a Deus Ex machina.
Some of the other explanations they gave (the Final Four's origins ,Starbucks reappearance and the All Along the Watchtower's relevance ,were just ridiculous and didnt ring true )
On the whole though the ending was ok.
I can see the same thing happening with Lost ,but as the writers seem to view themselves as Demi-Gods I think their ending will be too clever for its own good and be a muddled mess.
This weeks episode was utter drivel.

A mad woman on an island,a murderer , bashes a helpless woman to death ,to protect her children from becoming "bad".
She them spouts some garbage about a special place full of light ,with a bit of this light in everybody and they must protect it.
Then one of her sons leaves and deduces that his best way off the island is to attach a donkey wheel to a pulley so as it will be powered by light and water,wtf ! What about a boat ?
The other son is a bumbling fool and the mother somehow manages to fill in a well ,and murder the whole population of the island.

Does anyone on the island have a brain or ever ask the right questions ,instead of just acting on impulse or acting irrationally ?

Psychedelic · 12-05-2010 7:52pm

9

I can't believe so many people hated this episode, I thought it brilliant. So much was explained: donkey wheel, the whole back story of MiB and Jacob, the bright light, how the smoke was created, Adam & Eve. Also the stuff that was indirectly explained so we have enough information now to figure out other questions for ourselves.

The Adam & Eve scene was ruined with the footage from season 1, really annoyed about that, just couldn't believe they were doing it. Could've been a really nice scene to reveal without that stupid interruption.

Some other things could have been answered in this episode but I think some of these questions will be saved for the finale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfpBFYn-Jxw

Mr. Incognito · 12-05-2010 7:53pm

1

Okay,

I've calmed down enough to try and have some rational thoughts:

-MIB Can't leave the island but Jacob can? He was out giving The candidates high fives and giving Hurely the guitar case.

-Mommy seemed delighted to get killed.

-Jacob can "bring people to the island" but it always ends the same?

-Smokie comes from the light? The source, the light of souls? And he's a bad guy?

-Time travel, like wtf. Did that have anything to do with anything. A nuke next to the source sends some people to the future and opens an alternative timeline? Makes no sense.

-Who built the donkey wheel then. Easu (original MIB) is dead. Smokey has no body till Locke shows up.

-Rules? What rules.

-Where did Mommy kidnapper killer come from. Is she a smoke monster herself?

-If they were all brought to the island for a reason, where was Jacob from series one to three when they were all able to float around the island and then get a chopper off.

-Lighthouse and cave, like wtf, does not fit in anywhere.

-MIB can head down to the cave, drill into the light, carry metal with no effects and when dharma do it, well BOOM and time travel?

-Water and light, great. Where have they been for five seasons.

-Why can MIB see dead people and be special and Jacob can't.

-The producers claims that Adam and Eve would show they had a plan all along? Sorry I'm not buying that. Why didn't he bury them rather than stick them in a cave with some stones. They were sandwiched in to save ass and face.

-Dharma, why didn't MIB or Jacob go fcuk with them. Jacob is supposed to be protecting the source and let a few hundred dudes turn up and get drilling. Great job there pal.

-Easu wanted off before he became MIB, why not. Heck there are two of them. Off ya pop, Jacob, sit down and get minding.

-Why do all the candidates need to be together to get back to the island. Who cares.

-MIB became Shepard because they needed water? After the writers said in the Press interview that he had never taken the shape of anyone before Flocke.

Flocke- "I was a man once"- was he? Apparently MIB died and smokie assumed his body. Then he was never a man. Semantics I guess.

Bar miracles, which I am not expecting, it's painfully obvious that MIB and Jacob were shoe horned in Series 5 to try and give some explanations. The writers had NO idea what they were doing and the resolution between MIB and Jacob is weak and distracting. I posted in week 5 that this was looking like light V dark which we have seem a million times before and it's just a cop out.

The intelligence and foresight I believed in lost is gone. It was never there. I have become an agnostic Lost fan. I'll enjoy the entertainment from now on but there is no preconceived intelligence behind the show. Just a load of intelligent crap mashed together with no unifying theme.

MIB and Jacob DO NOT explain any of the mysteries from series one to five. None. And they never will.

I hope the writers are prepared for the backlash with the inevitable weak finale airs.

Dempsey · 12-05-2010 8:12pm

5

LOL at the people expecting answers just because there is 2 episodes left. Watching the last 5 years of lost would tell you that you shouldnt expect straight answers yet yer waiting. Some people's expectations of what the show to do has ruined it for them tbh

Its like this, the planned the pilot, it got picked up and made. It was the most expensive pilot ever but then the guy that green lit this risky project got the sack. Based on ratings, the show was picked up for a season, one season. If the ratings flopped the show would have been canned a la Space Above and Beyond, make no mistake about. US TV is all about the numbers, so the cowboys Cuse and Lindelof continued with this mysterious island plot because their test audiences and then viewers were interested.

Remember there was a big drop off in season 2 because they kept going down the rabbit hole on the mysterious island theme and eventually they bull**** their way into convincing the nerd following that they are planning this, such extent that they will wrap up the show at the end of season 6. Everyone knows how the Matrix 2 & 3 were recieved. If the audience know that you are milking an initially good storyline (season 1) then they will switch off. Everyone knows that Prison Break got the can because the audience could plainly see that after season 1 they were just milking it. The writers are going on what they know interests the target audience, thats as far as their creative freedom is allowed. Loose rating and the show gets cancelled, the production cost for Lost is massive and tv networks arent in it for the art of it all, they are looking to make money, plain and simple.

In short, knowing how US TV shows are "greenlit" means that we know that they didnt plan anything past season 1, they left open ends that ambigous enough so they could have flexibility in season 2 IF the network gave it the thumbs up. They did and the process was repeated for season 3 and once they knew that they had a solid trekky like fanbase, they gave an end date because they knew that would keep them hooked and the show at least break even until they finished their waffle.

Anyways, enough of the ranting!

I gave this episode a 6, some of the writing is dodgy and this attempt by writers to show that they "knew what they were doing" is working against them, its cringeworthy at times. The stock footage from season 1 is up there with the explanation of the whispers.

I hope for the ending to be good, I really do but if the rest of the season continues down this road of reacting to the test scores and audience feedback then this program will join those shows/films mentioned above on a list of mine as abominations of film/tv

Dempsey · 12-05-2010 8:15pm

5

Psychedelic wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfpBFYn-Jxw

That clip made the episode 15 worth watching, I got a good laugh at that!

opinion guy · 12-05-2010 8:25pm

5

Psychedelic wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfpBFYn-Jxw

Wow I'm amazed the Jacbo and MIB actors were allowed do that. Fair play to them thou - funny

anotherlostie · 12-05-2010 8:30pm

4

I expected so much, and it delivered so little. Normally you'd be saying, "well they'll get round to explaining that eventually". Not any more. What frustrated me was that so much of the episode was banal - it wasn't a case of there being so much going on, there wasn't time to explain more about Smokey, where Alison Janney came from, why the island had a protector, when they were etc. Disappointed right now.

Handsome Bob · 12-05-2010 8:31pm

4

It annoys me when people cite the whispers reveal as why straight answers are bad. That scene with Hurley and Michael wasn't bad because they gave us a straight answer, it was bad because it was **** story telling.

conor.hogan.2 · 12-05-2010 8:33pm

8

Mother is

a - being messed with herself and wanted to die, being chosen and ''immortal'' is really! annoying and a curse like it was for michael off island and richard on island.

b - manipulative smoke monster herself, she was happy to die because she didn't give nemesis a name and seemed to play the two off each other etc etc

a - would mean that the island is a bit like the matrix, there are numerous iterations.

Jacob and ''darling''/''brother'' can hurt and kill each other but smokie and ''jacob'' or the protector or the opposite can not kill each other.
The talk on the island was not between jacob and his brother much like that is not locke.

Anyway Jack is gonna be the next jacob (sayid said it) and he will face up against (f)locke
Oh yeah the writers happened to weave that out of their asses mid way....
:rolleyes:

Questions lead to more questions, people lead to more killing but there will be an ending someday as the writers said the ending will lead to more questions and so the story (life) goes on.

Resi12 · 12-05-2010 8:37pm

4

Really I always though Adam & Eve were never going to be as big as the fans expected, they just get caught up in Lost-mania during S1 like the polar bears.

However that was an awful episode considering it's the last before the grand finale. Surprisingly I am left with more questions than answers /sarcasm.
Who was their fake mother and why did she know so much about the Island and I suppose who was her mother she mentioned?

I thought we were going to at least get MIB's name, dissapointing really I think I would have preferred Rose and Bernard as Adam and Eve. All those 8 - 10's amaze me, how could people have enjoyed it that much? 5 -7 at most, very average.

Dempsey · 12-05-2010 8:43pm

5

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It annoys me when people cite the whispers reveal as why straight answers are bad. That scene with Hurley and Michael wasn't bad because they gave us a straight answer, it was bad because it was **** story telling.

The show is what it is because the audience was allowed to imagine the answers to the mythology/mysteries of the island.

The characters giving us straight answers about the whispers when in previous seasons you had to take piece A from one episode and piece B from another to get the answer to a question was the status quo. Characters spelling things out isnt the norm and its a case of the writers bending to complaints from feedback.

joe123 · 12-05-2010 8:44pm

Psychedelic wrote: »

So much was explained: donkey wheel

Im going to stop you right there.

Mother: What is this?

MIB: I built it. Im going to use the water and the light and turn the wheel and im going to get off this island ahahah!

Mother: How do you know this?

MIB: BECAUSE IM SPECIAL!!!!

Mother:....oohh ok son you have fun *Gives him an apple and pats him on the head. Then proceeds to back out of the room slowly*

Psychedelic · 12-05-2010 8:48pm

9

Resi12 wrote: »

However that was an awful episode considering it's the last before the grand finale.

There is one more episode before the finale. Episode 16 airs next Tuesday and the 2.5 hour finale airs on the following Sunday.

Resi12 · 12-05-2010 8:53pm

4

The only answers I have gathered from this episode is that women are superheroes on the Island:

A pregnant woman with twins survives a shipwreck, has no problem swimming inland then stumbling through the forest to effortlessly deliver her twins minus a few screams.

An older woman has no problem burning down a village, killing the 10 or so knife-wielding barbarian men and also causing a dug up well to cave in.

Daith · 12-05-2010 9:01pm

5

If Mother wanted to kill MiB why bash his head in the drag him out of the well? Unless she just wanted MiB to get angry, kill her and let Jacob smokify him?

I really wish they kept Smokie seperate from MIB/Jacob and was just another Island mystery.

I miss Dharma and the pseudo-science stuff. Magical light can piss off.

jor el · 12-05-2010 9:22pm

2

Psychedelic wrote: »

The Adam & Eve scene was ruined with the footage from season 1, really annoyed about that, just couldn't believe they were doing it. Could've been a really nice scene to reveal without that stupid interruption.

Yes, lazy, lazy, s**t and lazy writing. Like anyone still watching Lost now would not be aware of the bodies in the cave. We didn't need the little reminder, idiots. I knew that at least Mother would be one of the cave bodies before we even got half way through this episode. In fact, I started thinking about that as soon as Mother killed Birth-Mother, and I don't even care about Lost any more.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I have become an agnostic Lost fan.

Excellent name, I shall have to steal it.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I'll enjoy the entertainment from now on but there is no preconceived intelligence behind the show. Just a load of intelligent crap mashed together with no unifying theme.

MIB and Jacob DO NOT explain any of the mysteries from series one to five. None. And they never will.

I hope the writers are prepared for the backlash with the inevitable weak finale airs.

Yep, it's pretty much fill in the gaps time, with whatever looks like it might fit. Square peg in a round hole, that'll do nicely.

Redeeming features of this episode were:
No scowlly head on Kate
No always close to tears, indecisiveness from Jack
No righteous indignation from Sawyer
No smug from FLocke

That is all.

slave1 · 12-05-2010 10:13pm

9

a) Never remembered an episode receiving such a variety of votes, all numbers from one to ten used in quantities
b) Seriously, I mean seriously, you've been watching this for six years and really expected it to be all laid out in the final few episodes with explanations for everything, if so you never really understood this journey
c) I thought it was a great episode, had a feeling that Jacob and MIB were incarnations of the one person but twins is close enough
d) I didn't need the flashback scene, first time used that I can remember, pity
e) Enough offered up in that episode for me, I can accept 'mother', 'light and water', 'birth of smokey' and move on

Remember the good times that Lost has given us and don't let your frustrations ruin the last two episodes of the best series ever (yes, better than The Wire or a Skoda Octavia):P

10/10

RolandIRL · 12-05-2010 10:19pm

8

slave1 wrote: »

Remember the good times that Lost has given us and don't let your frustrations ruin the last two episodes of the best series ever (yes, better than The Wire or a Skoda Octavia):P

10/10

hopefully in the last 2 episodes, claire will be given some shampoo/conditioner to fix her fecking hair :P that'd might make it into the good times lost has given us :pac::D

Mr. Incognito · 12-05-2010 10:21pm

1

b) Seriously, I mean seriously, you've been watching this for six years and really expected it to be all laid out in the final few episodes with explanations for everything, if so you never really understood this journey

What?

Everyone posting here is posting before it has even aired terrestially. That means we're probably the hard core fans. And when hard core fans are pissed off something is seriously wrong.

I don't expect it to be laid out.

I do however expect that two shows before the series ends we don't get an episode that explains NOTHING, directly contradicts both the producers and previous episodes, offered hap hazard lazy, downright stupid explanations and cop outs. Treats the audience like idiots, introduces stock footage ffs.

I don't know what journey you're on pal but when I see someone blatantly winging it and not even having the intelligence to cover their arse I call bull****.

My journey consisted of them having some sort of idea. They have none.

I knew that as soon as Richard told Jack. You're dead. You're all dead.

I think he was talking to the show.

I was reading over on lostpedia that some fans are so hard core that they will eat any old ****e and call it chocolate when it comes to lost but lost earned my respect and now earned my disrespect for equal measure- first by being brilliant and then, not even by becoming bad but becoming absolutely awful.

Can you remember anything that hasn't been drawn out to the nth degree in this series.

Liber8or · 12-05-2010 10:33pm

6

Was just thinking some more about this episode and came across a serious criticism.

The episode focussed a lot on the fact that MiB and Jacob can NOT leave the island.
And yet, Jacob left the island (possible on numerous occasions) to bring Jack, Kate, Sawyer, et al to it. This needs explanation unless Mother was lying all along.

Dempsey · 12-05-2010 10:39pm

5

Liber8or wrote: »

Was just thinking some more about this episode and came across a serious criticism.

The episode focussed a lot on the fact that MiB and Jacob can NOT leave the island.
And yet, Jacob left the island (possible on numerous occasions) to bring Jack, Kate, Sawyer, et al to it. This needs explanation unless Mother was lying all along.

Why do people believe hook line and sinker what a character says?

Everyone has an agenda and tell lies, white lies and perceptions which may not be true.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 12-05-2010 10:40pm

3

opinion guy wrote: »

By the way, the opening scene, the biological mum crawling ashore.

Was I the only one thinking "ah f**k who da f**k is this f**kin new character they're bringing in NOW, at the end...AHHGIAG*%&£&%*£$%(£%

Nope, I was thinking the exact same thing.
I sat down looking forward to some kind of continuation of last week's story... maybe even something from the Ben/Richard/Miles group, then groaned at the sight of this new character.
I really hate when they use the whole episode for a back-story, and this one was extremely boring and aggravatingly slow paced.
I don't even care about answers or whether the writers had it all planned, just write something entertaining fs.

Nicky and Paolo episode was better than this, there I said it.

Mr. Incognito · 12-05-2010 10:40pm

1

Was just thinking some more about this episode and came across a serious criticism.

The episode focussed a lot on the fact that MiB and Jacob can NOT leave the island.
And yet, Jacob left the island (possible on numerous occasions) to bring Jack, Kate, Sawyer, et al to it. This needs explanation unless Mother was lying all along.

Points been made dude and a lot more besides.

According to this episode, there is no donkey wheel, Mommy can burn down a village in ten seconds, Easu has been dead for a few thousand years, Jacob has no technology to build the light house, smokey doesn't have to live in a cave when he has a big warm light to go home, smokey is the incarnation of energy and is bound by rules made by a lady that killed his host, the same rules that don't seem to apply to Jacob.

Oh and while your at it.

When Ben killed Jacob he said- you have a choice. If Ben Killed him does that not mean he is the new candidate?

Why does Jacob need Richard as a go between.

Free will and all that is not addressed.

Oh, it's too much, I need to go take a **** and lie down.

Sad Professor · 12-05-2010 10:44pm

8

lol. The poll results are amazing.

Liber8or wrote: »

Was just thinking some more about this episode and came across a serious criticism.

The episode focussed a lot on the fact that MiB and Jacob can NOT leave the island.
And yet, Jacob left the island (possible on numerous occasions) to bring Jack, Kate, Sawyer, et al to it. This needs explanation unless Mother was lying all along.

Mother was lying. She wanted them to stay because she loved them and needed a replacement. Simple as that. Either of them could have left, as indeed Jacob later did.

But MIB is no longer human. He is now part of the "darkness" beneath the island that Jacob was stopping from getting out. As long as there is a protector there, or a candidate to replace him, that energy is contained, which means MIB cannot leave. Once Jacob and all the candidates are dead, that energy (along with MIB) will be released.

RolandIRL · 12-05-2010 10:47pm

8

did anyone else think Mommy sounded like katey segal, (locke's wife-to-be in alternate timeline)

i kept thinking that throughout the episode!

PetKing · 12-05-2010 10:49pm

5

Wasn't a big fan of the clips from Season 1, but even for friends of mine who watch every week, some of them were looking at me as I smirked when I noticed the stones. Sometimes it can be a bit too much of a leap to hope that average viewers can remember the ins and outs of a scene from 2004.

tok9 · 12-05-2010 10:58pm

8

Wow now this episode has really got to fans.. some diverse voting. I gave it a 9/10

The main reason was because it was the first time in a long time that i was seriously confused after an episode of Lost. I loved it

Some of the criticism for the episode is fair enough but i just thought as a stand alone episode it was class. I had no problem with the cgi, the light links a lot with the show.

I actually didn't really mind the S1 footage, and if I was given the option of showing the clip in previously on lost or during the sequence I would have done the same thing. I hate when they show things like that prior to the episode so you know whats coming up.

Does this mean that Locke was the first body that the smoke monster took over?

Also is there any point in revealing MIB's name? He doesn't seem important anymore

demolitionman · 12-05-2010 11:02pm

4

seadnamac wrote: »

People should also remember that MIB was perfectly capable of leaving the island just like anyone else, he just hadn't found a way before he died.

Jacob and MIB could both be killed, and MIB was. Their mother was just lying to them so they would'nt fight, as mothers do. Jacob now can't die or age because he drank the wine.

this doesnt make sense to make...
series five episode one opening scene depicts jacob and mib and mib saying to him ''you know how badly i want to kill you right'' and then saying ''someday ill find a loophole''

that loophole ended up using ben to kill jacob....

so mib himslf couldnt hurt jacob (because the mother made it that they could never hurt each other)

the question is, if the person in the opening scene was actually smokie (which presumably it is), then why is it that smoke cant kill jacob?

seadnamac wrote: »

Jacob now can't die or age because he drank the wine.

but jacob did die....?

i was pumped for that episode but it was a major letdown i felt.

and the whole thing with the adam and eve stones...what a load of bull....that in no way made me think that the writers planned it all from the start...it actually made me think ''ok they didnt have this planned from the start and now theyre just trying to work a story around this''

what a crock. last weeks episode i thought was epic. the next two better not disappoint. in general i think theres gonna be a lot of pissed off fans come may 24th.

[US/IRL] 6x15 - "Across The Sea" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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[US/IRL] 6x15 - "Across The Sea" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]