[US/IRL] 6x15 - "Across The Sea" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Sad Professor

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "ACROSS THE SEA" -

Episode Title: "Across the Sea"
Airdate: May 11th 2010

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

The motives of John Locke are finally explained.

Next New Episode: 6x16 - May 18th 2010

---

SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

A REMINDER ABOUT USE OF SPOILERS:

No discussion of future episode spoilers. That includes anything the writers may have revealed in interviews, podcasts, etc. Even behind spoiler tags they don't belong in this thread. Promos for next week shouldn't be posted in here either.

And out of respect for those following the show on RTE, this episode should NOT be discussed outside of this thread until it has aired on RTE.

Sad Professor

8

The pen-penultimate episode. Less than two weeks left.

No early showing, starts 2am as usual.

Carroller16

3

CAN'T WAIT!

leggo

5

Ummm...anyone else having a heart attack right now?

EDIT: All good. Phew...

me-skywalker

1

The

motives of John Locke??

eh same thing he does every decade of new people....

JDee

4

Here we go!

Watching it live from a "special Astra satellite in space" I have

Missed the first few seconds, did it give a year of origin in the first scene?

leggo

5

Nope. Was looking out for that myself.

Light, eh? Ohhhhh god...this better be good...

JDee

4

Looks like their mother is the original Rousseu.

Or something

waltersobchak

4

Im not impressed by this so far..:(:(

Ron DMC

3

So.... this is rubbish so far.

KeithM89_old

2

Booooooooooring......

JDee

4

Patience lads, I think some answers are imminent

JDee

4

20 mins left, so far Im on MiB's side

Ron DMC

3

It's going somewhere, still a bit ridiculous though.

So how did CJ Cregg take out a whole village? Hmmm....

me-skywalker

1

really?????!!! they did not just use some stock footage from season 1.... or did I imagine that? that didn't? did they?

THEY DID!!! OMFG! What do they take us for! Might aswell tell my mate to not even bother watching season 6 when he gets to it on. Pure drivel.

waltersobchak

4

I cant believe an episode that promised so much delivered so little, especially so late into the series and indeed the show, that was fu*king shocking, honestly these last 2 episodes better live up to expectations.. Because ive wasted the last 6 years of my life otherwise

leggo

5

I'm, eh, gonna have to sleep on that one.

I hope Lostpedia is able to explain how that was a good episode in the morning.

Sea Sharp

4

That sucked ass to be honest.

The 'link' with season 1 was lame. It doesn't show they always knew how they were going to end it it just shows that they managed to write up a story to explain two rocks & 2 bodies.

I'm starting to think I'll be one of those people who will hate how this program ends.


This was an opportunity to explain so much p1ssed away.

Benny Lava

Must avoid spoilers.

If anyone has a link to watch it now, please PM me.

I can't risk returning to this thread because of spoilers.

KeithM89_old

2

Pure drivel - it better improve next week or i'll be depressed

JDee

4

That was just ok, my "special Astra satellite in space" wasnt so great this week so it might be better on 2nd viewing.

http://forum.thefuselage.com/ has just crashed which Ive only ever seen happen after finales, Im not sure if its with people complaining or praising this episode

me-skywalker

1

Im slightly shocked to be honest. This was not the LOST I have watched for 6 years.

This episode should have been earlier in the season and maybe Richards later in the season. They whole season has been one big mess for me they have tried to stretch a small amount of butter over a huge sliced pan! Shocking!

I couldn't even being bothered to comment until I watch it again... only thing is I couldn't be bothered watching it again!

JDee

4

leggo wrote: »

I hope Lostpedia is able to explain how that was a good episode in the morning.

lol!

jordainius

5

me-skywalker wrote: »

really?????!!! they did not just use some stock footage from season 1.... or did I imagine that? that didn't? did they?

THEY DID!!! OMFG! What do they take us for! Might aswell tell my mate to not even bother watching season 6 when he gets to it on. Pure drivel.

Well season 1 was a long time ago so not many would clearly remember them finding the 2 bodies in the cave and the black and white stones in the bag. I wouldn't criticise it at all for a few brief flashbacks which serve to illustrate a link between this episode and the episode from s1.

I will criticise however for it being yet another of those frustrating episodes which could have answered a lot more than it should have. I still don't know why MIB can't kill Jacob or the candidates, I don't know why Jacob lived so long. Two reveals in that episode were Smokies creation and that yellow light cave, both reveals were quite lame. Particularly the yellow light- for a show with such a large budget their CGI is woefully bad at times...

jordainius

5

The one thing I did learn is that the writers did not have this mapped out from the start as they claim- there are so many unanswered questions and they clearly do not have enough time to answer them by now.

JDee

4

jordainius wrote: »

for a show with such a large budget their CGI is woefully bad at times...

Apart from the Pilot episode Lost's CGI has always being shocking and, as far as Im aware, their budgets were cut this year.

Im sure whatever CGI $$$ they have left is been saved for the finale

me-skywalker

1

jordainius wrote: »

Well season 1 was a long time ago so not many would clearly remember them finding the 2 bodies in the cave and the black and white stones in the bag. I wouldn't criticise it at all for a few brief flashbacks which serve to illustrate a link between this episode and the episode from s1.

Are you for real? When did you start watching LOST? That was a complete cheese and lacked any sincerity. The producers purposely threw that in for new fans or casual observers. I highly doubt Cuse and Lindelof would have actually wanted that put in right there. I stunk up the whole episode and they have undermined, underestimated and split their fans in one swift movement.

As far as what the episode served to tell us that it should have told us... Well CJ just kept saying she made these rules and they have to protect it but she doesnt tell us the WHY? So if Jacob went into the 'cave of light' then he would have turned into a good smokey? Why did she kill their real mother? Oh because she was corrupt and what made her so uncorruptable?

Also MiB saying to Jacob when he questioned him about why he watches them, 'you watch us from up above' - does this mean the lighthouse? or a bird? or just a high hill?

The wheel??? I still dont get it.... Also as CJ said how did MiB know this!!

Sad Professor

8

Well, I thought it was excellent. It confirmed most of my earlier thinking regarding the "darkness" beneath the island. It seems to be electromagnetism. The same thing Dharma were keeping corked by pressing the button.

What I really liked about the episode though was the complexity with which the origin of the Jacob/MIB conflict was handled. They are both an mix of influences by "Mother" who was an earlier protector of the island. The important thing to be emphasised is that they were all human, not gods. They came to the island the same as everyone else and therefore everything they say or believe about the island is fallible. No one can speak for the island but the island itself, and it ain't talking.

What's interesting is how they both took on some her qualities and not others. Jacob accepted her teaching that the island needed to be protected, but unlike her had a positive outlook on humanity (which ironically came from being an outsider) and believed in free will. MIB meanwhile inherited her hatred of humanity (of which, unlike Jacob, he had some experience) while at the same time believing that the island didn't need a protector and wanted to leave.

I suspect the yellow light was intended to tie in with Locke's earlier encounter with Smokey in season 1. He described seeing a beautiful white light. It's the energy beneath the island of which Smokey is a result. As Mother described it, it is life, death, rebirth. Rebirth is the key word here. This energy created the Sideways universe. Or will create it. But releasing it will probably destroy the original universe in the process.

There was loads of answers in this episode imo. They weren't spoon-fed to us, but they were there. At this point I don't want awkward explanations delivered via exposition (à la the whispers). If they can't show us the answer to something, then I'd rather it be left unexplained for us to figure out and decide for ourselves.

JDee

4

Great post SP as always. Im about to watch it properly now on a TV screen as opposed to my "special Astra satellite in space"

thefuselage.com is still down, I reckon it will be offline for a week after the finale

Gitb1

What a way to waste 40 minutes. Nothing about the previous 2 episodes has got me excited about the finale. They have however started to make me lose faith in the show

MrMojoRisin'

1

really wish i hadnt stayed up so late to watch that ... bad bad bad episode

opr

3

I could have really enjoyed that episode but as another poster said it should have come much earlier in the season and its timing is all wrong.

I am also so pissed off at the inclusion of that footage from the earlier episode in which they discover the bodies. It played out awful, it looked awful and it felt like a big slap in the face from the writers. Basically they spelt out that they think the audience is fcuking dumb and lazy and they need someone else to add two and two. I really can't get over that scene and was in disbelief watching it. I mean WFT, they spend years head-fcuking and mystifying us only to turn round and treat us like a five year old ?

Opr

Jay Ru

2

Bored to tears watching it, they cud of done so much more with the ep. Still no explanation on how folk become a candidate, how MIB is able to take on Lockes form and the fact that they still haven't named MIB is beyond stupid. And please don't tell me that it adds to the mystery of the character. The only mystery he has left now are ones the writers don't themselves have answers for. The Adam and Eve reveal proved the writers didn't have a clue, if they did it wud of been nice to maybe have show one of the characters in this ep during the time skips last season, then i might believe their lies. Another thing bout the Adam and Eve thing, didn't Jack state that the decomp on the clothing looked to be at least 40-50 years old? I do realise that a spinal doc is no expert in these matters but its a poor job of the writers to have one of the main characters make such a statement about the plot anchor between series 1 and series 6. Surely if this was such an important piece of the show it wud of been written differently, ie Jack saying nothing bout the state clothes or simply saying "Its really Old", its how everybody described Richard until we found out the was 100+
After last weeks episode i said to myself that i wasn't going to complain about the show, really enjoyed last week and i was looking forward to this more than the finale, and i was majorly disappointed. As i stated before the mythology of Lost was the biggest draw for me and after my disappointment with Richards ep i really thought this ep wud be a major payoff on the myths department and yet again i was sorely disappointed. Really considering given the finale a miss. 3 out of 10 for me!

bunnymunro

1

too true that was absolute muck...theres gonna be no pay off with this at all...lost once upon a time was must see viewing..but like so many things they tangled a web they couldnt get out the knots out of...like for god sakes..that was pathetic...

abelard

4

That was.....ok.

So under the island is the source of everything, ultimate power or something. When Jacob's brother's body (I think Jacob killed him when he threw him down on the rocks - in spite of supposedly not being able to hurt him) floated on in, the energy seems to have been able to take on corporeal form, discarding the physical body in the process. This seems to have happened again in it's current form as John Locke.

So Jacob's brother's original intention was to leave the island to get home. But the smoke wants to leave the island too - why? To wreak havoc? Whatever Jacob's mother did to mean he could never leave, it still seems to be in effect. But why could Jacob leave? And why does killing candidates mean he can? Do we assume whatever Jacob's mother did to stop them leaving, Jacob transferred to the candidates through touch?

I guess an episode like this was always going to still leave questions, but it's disappointing they didn't shoot a tighter episode, they could have answered a lot more.

There were also a strange amount of Jesus references if you look out for them. To such an extent that I almost thought the brother's name was going to be revealed as Jesus or something in the last scene.

EKRIUQ

6

So that explains why Jack thought that the skeletons were about 40 years old.

So there was this woman and she came from....?

She had all the answers but wouldn't tell anyone because...?, I missed that one!
Well she did something to the wine so she must have been...?, didn't get that info either.

She couldn't tell anyone who asked her a question an answer because...? Why she was the guardian, why the light needed guarding, why no one could die,

Why the men on the island were evil and needed to die, for that matter if she could kill everyone by herself anyway, why she didn't do that in the first place

This show just a bunch of coincidences with the backgammon stones, tapestry, wine, dagger, well, frozen donkey wheel, adam and eve, the mysterious energy pocket. but they didnt explain any of it

FredBloggs

4

Interesting to note the difference between our poll and Dark UFO's. At the moment his is showing that 63% of the people thought the episode was awesome or great.

mkeano

1

I'm starting to worry about Lost, after 6 years of defending it to those who said it was rubbish I'm getting a sinking feeling. In my opinion, Ab Aeterno and Across the Sea both were missed opportunities to answer questions and also give us some fun. Continuity is out the window, the bodies of Adam and Eve were in different positions in Season 1 to the way they are left in this episode and with so little time left it looks like they are not going to address so many mysteries. Cuse (who I feel is the least talented) said to answer all of the unresolved issues would be pedantic...which I feel is a cop out. The Hanso's, origins of the Dharma Initiative, the food drops look like they will remain unresolved now. They could have easily had Hanso brought into the Ab Aeterno episode, we didn't even see him...why not make him the same Hanso who sets up the Dharma Initiative? There has been highlights this season but to have an entire episode without the main cast was an episode which I thought would provide more answers than it did

Liber8or

6

Ok, I am at odds with this episode as I expected quite a lot.

Firstly, the positives.

1 - The episode explained how MiB became the smoke monster. The idea of the tunnel with the light can offer life/death/rebirth is interesting and the consequences of entering it may be determined by one's own character. We saw how 'Evil' or the smoke took over the dead body of MiB.

2 - Jacob is now the protector of the island and he must protect the light. This would explain why Dharma were purged from the island in the 1970's as they (much like the people in MiB's time) were getting too close to unlocking this power.

3 - MiB was special, much like Walt/Hurley/Desmond - possible connection?

4 - Nice conversational references to 'games' and 'rules' throughout the episode. Also, Jacob and MiB's Mother makes references to mankind and how they come, the destroy, they kill, etc. Something mirrored in a conversation MiB had previously.

5 - John Locke described the Monster (back in Season 1) as a bright light and he "looked into the island and saw beauty" - tentative links that the writers knew what they were doing.

However, the negetives. Before I break it down I very much felt like this episode was simply part one of two and requires a lot more.

1 - No explanations as to why MiB/Jacob can not die or how Mother came to being on the island.

2 - The flashback scene was a distasteful attempt at proving a long lasting link between beginning and end. However, I will accept that the writers put it in to remind the 'non-obsessive' fans of a scene probably forgotten.

3 - The Frozen Donkey Wheel was not installed and the well was filled, which means we still DON'T know who built it and can only assume another civilization arrived and then built it. This would probably be proven by the statue's construction.

4 - The wine or drink Jacob drank. What does it mean? How is it powerful and since MiB smashed the bottle in Ab Abterno is there no more or can it be recreated?

5 - Alison Jenney's character 'Mother' was completely under-used. She really offered no substantial information as to the mythology of the island or the purpose of those on it - as we have all realised, people brought to the island have a purpose.

In conclusion and as can be seen, this episode is mixed for me. I feel it had the opportunity to add so much. Don't get me wrong, we got some answers, (plenty) and I appreciate the writers not spoon feeding them to us (well exception to the Adam and Eve scenario), however the episode let me down on one vital element; it added questions.

We are one episode away from the finale and there should be no more questions being asked, only answers. However, the recent announcement that there will be an extra 30 minutes added on might be for this reason. Perhaps pre-screenings of the episode yielded a mixed feedback about the episode and the writers decided to tag on an extra 30 minutes about Jacob and MiB (hopefully!).

Right now I feel: meh. I got answers, but not enough. I was given important information and yet, I don't know what to do with it. Very much feels like I have just been told answers to questions I already knew but required confirmation. But, I can not deny it kept be gripped and the mind ticking over.

Here's hoping those 30 minutes will be dedicated to MiB and Jacob....

AntiRip

6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0BnwGPvqdM

homerun_homer

5

I'm gonna have to rewatch and mull it over a bit more but I am let down with this episode. I know there has got to be more to it than what can be taken for face value but where it falls flat for me is the lack of explaining why MIB shouldn't leave the island.
If anything watching the episode I felt for MIB. He was curious, there was more to the world than the island and he learned his mom wasn't his mom and his people are from somewhere across the sea. I sympathise to his want to leave.
He hates people from living 30 years with his people, that's not enough for me. He harbours all this hatred for how many years (hundreds, over a thousand?) and keeps killing as smoke monster because he doesn't want to give people a fair go. Now if he killed his own people I'd accept it more but his mom killed them & he was annoyed at this. Understandably they were helping him with his means to an end, getting off island but storytelling wise - it's all a bit muddled for me right now.

We've all been curious to the omnipotent nature of Jacob and his off island antics and candidate picking - you can't explain away god but you can explain the nature of the selection process or what is going on in Jacob's head. MIB "just knows" how to play the game he found like he "just knows" how the frozen donkey wheel will work.. again a bit more insight please.

The episode needed to lay on the line why MIB is evil and should not be allowed to leave and why if he does the world is in big trouble. It didn't, it solved the skeleton situation which I liked the answer but it doesn't prove they had this planned all along. They created a plot that fitted the mystery. I, like everyone thought the flashback was awful bad and only thrown in for 'dummy' viewers who don't read too much into things (sorry if any are reading:D). I doubt Darlton had input into whether or not flashbacks were put in that don't fit with the mood or style.

I could go on and on but I'm gonna have another think before I post anymore.

Update*
I should add that I thought it bad that Jacob made MIB into Smokey by doing something bad to him. If the show had MIB being so determined to get to the Light and use it then it would probably be more fitting. Can't judge this all until it's over but for now that's how I feel.

DarrenMSP

4

It amazes me that with one eps left before the final, Carlton Cuse & Damon Lindelof (who actually wrote this weeks episode) and Tucker Gates (who directed Ab Aeterno) would think it was a fitting way to explore the Jacob/MIB story fully.

I'm done defending Lost and its below average story telling.

Seriously, for what they showed, it could have been wrapped up in 10 mins.

The biggest thing for me is the "reveals" were not reveals, they were new questions which should have been answered within that Ep. Not cool new mysteries to ponder, just stupid crap like, Why did the MIB turn into smoke exactly? Why was it that Jacob/MIB "can't" kill each other but Jacob clearly did? etc, etc

It leads me to believe the end is going to be more of the same.

Oh, and MIB's rumoured name has been out there a while now, so any chance they could say it clearly. I think the mother said it when she was dying (sounded like it) but clearly thanks. No matter now what they call him, it will be a lame reveal as they have built it up so pointlessly

maltesrs

k mayb im a little bit slow/tired this morning but can someone explain something to me? MIB died at the end of this episode..is that right? or did his body just die and he was reborn into the smoke monster with an ability to take on any form? so then the episode we saw before where jacob and mib are sittin on the beach and mib says "do you know how much I want to kill you?" im presuming that came after this time period?? and if that is the case who is mib in that episode..is he jacobs brother...is he a smoke monster using jacobs brothers body???!!so so confused by this episode...

Liber8or

6

maltesrs wrote: »

k mayb im a little bit slow/tired this morning but can someone explain something to me? MIB died at the end of this episode..is that right? or did his body just die and he was reborn into the smoke monster with an ability to take on any form? so then the episode we saw before where jacob and mib are sittin on the beach and mib says "do you know how much I want to kill you?" im presuming that came after this time period?? and if that is the case who is mib in that episode..is he jacobs brother...is he a smoke monster using jacobs brothers body???!!so so confused by this episode...

Yes, MiB died - this is proven by the camera looking at his face as he hits the rocks in the water.
However, it was his body that died - not so much his 'presence'.

The smoke monster (which stands for Evil) then assumed the form of MiB because it needed a body to take shape. This would be MiB's body.

I think the writers emphasised this point when Jacob says 'Goodbye Brother' at the end of the episode. They are letting us know that the man in black as we knew him in this episode died, but his body was taken by something else.

The 'do you know how much I wanna kill you' speech is to do with 'Evil' speaking and it needing a way off the island to spread. This is obvious with Jacob's demeanour towards MiB after the events of Episode 15. He is much more placid and distant from MiB on the beach. Because he knows the man who may look like his brother, is infact not.

Daysha

2

No explanation of the cabin? Nothing on the ashes, or how MiB can take forms of other people?

What a letdown that was

jordainius

5

me-skywalker wrote: »

Are you for real?

Yes

When did you start watching LOST?

From the beginning. Is this (condescending pointless questions) how you usually react when people disagree with you?

That was a complete cheese and lacked any sincerity.

I explained why they did it. I didn't say it was sincere.

The producers purposely threw that in for new fans or casual observers. I highly doubt Cuse and Lindelof would have actually wanted that put in right there.

Shows don't tend to get "new fans". In fact Lost's viewership ratings have gradually been in decline since season 2- the general trend with tv shows like this. And as for "casual observers", chances are that they would have had never seen or completely forgotten about that 10 seconds of footage from season one anyway.

Cuse and Lindelof themselves hinted that this episode would show that they didn't make it up as they went along, they wanted to show the link between now and season one. They still haven't convinced me that they had it all mapped out from the beginning but there was nothing wrong with putting in a few brief flashes of season one just to show the connection.

I don't think the explanation of "Adam and Eve" was as important as they tried to spin it as there are more important questions waiting to be answered but its no big deal.

I stunk up the whole episode and they have undermined, underestimated and split their fans in one swift movement.

There are no words to describe how over the top that statement is. At the end of the day its just a tv show.

Handsome Bob

4

One word to describe how I feel about this episode; conflicted. I liked aspects, hated others. I suppose the best way I could describe it would be this; every time their "mother" says something I just felt like asking "But why?" and "But how?". Sometimes you need straight answers, not wishy washy dialogue that "leaves the situation open to interpretation".

I liked the Jacob/MIB dynamic. I hated how Jacob came off as naive whereas MIB's views were based on actual experience. I mean does Jacob even know himself what exactly his purpose is? Does he know exactly what will happen if MIB gets off of the island?

I also thought it was pretty sad how they went out of their way not to name MIB. Everything was "him", "son" or "brother". Just STFU, stop being mysterious for the sake of being mysterious and just tell us his name.

I thought it was really disappointing to be honest.

blue_steel

9

Just watched it and came straight here to give it a whopping 10 out of 10. Cannot comprehend the low scores people are giving this episode. How can anyone seriously think Recon and What Kate Does were better than this total classic! For me this was the kind of payoff I was hoping for all through Season 6; profound mythology that took us way back into the history of the island. Ok the footage from Season 1 was strictly for the slow-witted but come on, it hardly spoiled the other 40 minutes. And the birth of Smokie was worth the admission price alone :pac:
I just wish that we'd gotten 2 or 3 more episodes of this ilk in Season 6.

jordainius

5

LZ5by5 wrote: »

One word to describe how I feel about this episode; conflicted. I liked aspects, hated others. I suppose the best way I could describe it would be this; every time their "mother" says something I just felt like asking "But why?" and "But how?". Sometimes you need straight answers, not wishy washy dialogue that "leaves the situation open to interpretation".

I liked the Jacob/MIB dynamic. I hated how Jacob came off as naive whereas MIB's views were based on actual experience. I mean does Jacob even know himself what exactly his purpose is? Does he know exactly what will happen if MIB gets off of the island?

I also thought it was pretty sad how they went out of their way not to name MIB. Everything was "him", "son" or "brother". Just STFU, stop being mysterious for the sake of being mysterious and just tell us his name.

I thought it was really disappointing to be honest.

Couldn't agree more. Every answer they gave led to more questions. Introducing another mysterious character at this late stage was a mistake. They could have explained a lot about the origins of the island and what it is but nope, still left hanging on a lot of issues.

If this was earlier in the season I would have liked it a lot more, but at this stage we need answers, not yet more questions.

I bet that MIB's name is

Aaron

and in the alt universe

Claire will name the baby Jacob.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

2

at the start of season six i was pretty unhappy with the show, only watching it out of habit. Then i went back and watched seasons 1-5 again, which helped me love the show again and remember why it had become a habit of mine in the first place. Now I'm pretty much right back where i was at the beginning of season six. I just want to get the finale over and done with. The excitement's all gone at this stage.

pkumohideeile

6

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

at the start of season six i was pretty unhappy with the show, only watching it out of habit. Then i went back and watched seasons 1-5 again, which helped me love the show again and remember why it had become a habit of mine in the first place. Now I'm pretty much right back where i was at the beginning of season six. I just want to get the finale over and done with. The excitement's all gone at this stage.

Totally. I still love watching it, even though todays ep was not that great i liked watching it, i just want it over now. I think the writers are asses for raising sooo many questions over 6 seasons and then calling it pedantic to attemp to answer them all! Then it seems making mystery was their tactic for getting viewers. Ok of course they write some good episodes but they're bringing us back the next week by setting up questionable events that we want to see resolved, and are not going to resolve.

I'm still pretty interested in the finale but they've fecked it up i think. It's going to be like the ending of the Truman show, life goes on. So lets get it over and enjoy the summer.