[US/IRL] 6x15 - "Across The Sea" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

hightower1

PetKing wrote: »

"smart people, who had some very interesting ideas about how to use it [the light]""connected to a system they built that would channel light and water into it" to harness it's power.

Did you want him to pull out a flippin white board and draw diagrams of the inner working of the mechanism with flow charts and a legend?!??!

No but ANY kind of explanation would work.. how in layman's terms was channeling light from the wall going to help him get off the island???

They didnt even attempt to give an answer just that light = magic, magic = way off island :rolleyes: wtf is that! Six years of watching and story writing and THAT is what they come up with s an explanation both relevant NOW and for a major story mechanic from a past season finale(wheel in th wall). That is simply piss poor writing.

The ONLY thing now that can redeem this is a bare knuckle fist fight on a mountain top between flocke and a cyborg Desmond who travels back through time to KICK ASS! Otherwise this episode will completely mar the series as the worst ever.

MisterAnarchy

3

A few Questions:
Did the light turn MiB into the smoke monster or did the monster already exist and merely take his form ?
Did the fake mother summon the smoke monster to fill in the well and kill all of Mib's people ?
Why does MIB/smokey keep killing people who come to the island if he wants to get off it ?

hightower1

cooker3 wrote: »

basically unanswerable to any degree.

The story of the island power is completely answerable any amount of ways! Who knows, say time travelers came back and their machine overloaded forming a massive energy well in the island, they drew straws for one to stay and protect the energy from the future evolutions of mankind as they now know the energy signature could be used to create more time tech and lead to huge destructive potential. The rest leave and the person who stay (mother) is the guardian charged with bringing candidates to the island to protect it and replace the last guardian.....Island mystery = time travelers, flight 815 = most elaborate interview process ever.

See, perfectly explainable IF they wanted to but they decided to just say that mother was only one of a long line of guardians, dont say where the island power comes from or how the guardians started. This episode only gave back story to mib and jacob... nothing more. It gave no insight to the islands power, the rules imposed on mib and jacob or how the guardians started.


Perhaps thats still to come but even that statement sounds like wishfull thinking in my own ears.

hightower1

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

A few Questions:
Did the light turn MiB into the smoke monster or did the monster already exist and merely take his form ?
Did the fake mother summon the smoke monster to fill in the well and kill all of Mib's people ?
Why does MIB/smokey keep killing people who come to the island if he wants to get off it ?

Answer 1 = wasnt explained,
answer 2 = wasnt explained,
answer 3 = wasnt explained.

For more information please see : everyones hatred for this crappy episode.

RolandIRL

8

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

A few Questions:
Did the light turn MiB into the smoke monster or did the monster already exist and merely take his form ?
Did the fake mother summon the smoke monster to fill in the well and kill all of Mib's people ?
Why does MIB/smokey keep killing people who come to the island if he wants to get off it ?

good questions but i doubt we know the answers yet!:pac:
i hadn't thought of the possibility that the smoke monster existed before and was just released when jacob threw MiB's body into the cave of light.

MisterAnarchy

3

hightower1 wrote: »

how in layman's terms was channeling light from the wall going to help him get off the island???

That is basic Alchemy,did you not learn that in school ?:D

Basq

D'ya know what really annoyed me?

"Colour-code the kids for convienience!"

littlejp

5

When they were playing the game MIB told Jacob that someday he'd get to make up his own rules for a game.
MIB dislikes people. Jacob thinks some people are inherintly good.

I think Jacob has created a game on the island where he brings people to the island to try to prove to MIB that some people are just good people. The people left on his list are the ones he brought that he feels could prove this point. One of Jacob's rules is that MIB cannot harm these candidates. They have to be left to their own devices to an extent to see if they are good or bad.

Not sure how this ties in with MIB trying to get off the island or lots of other things... Maybe if one of the candidates (my money is on Jack) by some selfless act or act of faith, stay on the island, MIB will be proven wrong and has to stay.

Jay Ru

2

but all previous candidates have failed and MIB never left the island before so what makes this group so special?

Tigger

3

what are the numbers

slowmoe

5

so mibs name is esau?

if the theory of biblical jacob fits in then how come jacob was born first? biblical jacob was born hanging onto esau's heel, and jacob was blessed by his father as he was disguised as his brother

i'm still not getting the whole god loved jacob but hated esau dharma thing here

hightower1

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That is basic Alchemy,did you not learn that in school ?:D

lol I think the only school that could answer the pathetic excuse of an explanation they gave us is hogwarts school for magical children!

MisterAnarchy

3

hightower1 wrote: »

lol I think the only school that could answer the pathetic excuse of an explanation they gave us is hogwarts school for magical children!

I've been working in my workshop all evening rigging up the donkey wheel ,pulley ,a water pump and a few halogen lamps.
Should have it up and running soon as with all this volcanic ash around I think this is the way to travel....

Mr.Nice Guy

1

Poll results are extraordinary. As I write this out of the 133 people who voted thus far, 67 people voted it 7 or above, whilst 66 people voted it 6 or below. I can't recall an episode that so split the Lost audience like this one.

I guess this will go down as the Marmite episode of the show. From reading Wikipedia's page on the episode it seems the US audience were just as divided by it as we were.

opinion guy

5

basquille wrote: »

D'ya know what really annoyed me?

"Colour-code the kids for convienience!"

Yeah this annoyed me too. Especially since they are supposed to be twins, and yes twins don't always look alike, but these two don't even appear to be the same ethnicity - Jacob seems to be Scandinavian and MIB Italian or Spanish



Actually I'll tell you what I'm really expecting now. What I'm waiting for at this stage now.

Aliens. F*cking ALIENS. A la Indiana Jones and the temple of giant ridicuous aliens.That will explain smokey, the light, everything

hightower1

Winning over only half of the audience to say its only alright is simply not good enough.
If the pilot was met with the same reaction (10%say its great, 40%say it was ok and the rest disliked it)...... it would have been canned before it got off the ground... or hit the ground in the pilots case.

hightower1

opinion guy wrote: »

Actually I'll tell you what I'm really expecting now. What I'm waiting for at this stage now.

Aliens. F*cking ALIENS.

Actually.... that might not be a bad idea??????..........






"I bring you love!"

Sad Professor

8

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Did the light turn MiB into the smoke monster or did the monster already exist and merely take his form ?

My interpretation is that there was no Smokey before MIB. MIB died and his soul was absorbed by the energy and he became the smoke monster.

Did the fake mother summon the smoke monster to fill in the well and kill all of Mib's people ?

We already know that Jacob had certain powers. The power to make people immortal, etc. For the most part, it seems he used these powers for good. Mother as island protector presumedly had similar powers. If she had the power to make her two "sons" immortal, she probably had the power to destroy a village. Television time and budgets, however, are limited.

Why does MIB/smokey keep killing people who come to the island if he wants to get off it ?

MIB's body is gone. He is no longer human. All that remains of him now is an extension of the energy beneath the island. As long as that energy is contained by the island, then so is MIB. Therefore, if MIB wants to leave, he has to kill the protector of the island and any potential replacement.

Jazzy

Sad Professor wrote: »

My interpretation is that there was no Smokey before MIB. MIB died and his soul was absorbed by the energy and he became the smoke monster.


We already know that Jacob had certain powers. The power to make people immortal, etc. For the most part, it seems he used these powers for good. Mother as island protector presumedly had similar powers. If she had the power to make her two "sons" immortal, she probably had the power to destroy a village. Television time and budgets, however, are limited.


MIB's body is gone. He is no longer human. All that remains of him now is an extension of the energy beneath the island. As long as that energy is contained by the island, then so is MIB. Therefore, if MIB wants to leave, he has to kill the protector of the island and any potential replacement.

one of the best posters on this entire site. bang on the money on all accounts there. you dont like football do ya sad professor ?

dudeitshurley

Sad Professor wrote: »

My interpretation is that there was no Smokey before MIB. MIB died and his soul was absorbed by the energy and he became the smoke monster.
WHY? This interpretation is implying MIB's soul was evil and he became the smoke monster. MIB was just a boy who saw the ghost of his dead mother who said this other weirdo 'mom' of yours killed me and my family/friends are a) not from around here and b) living elsewhere on the island. So he leaves, grows up and tries to find his way off the island. You will surely agree Lost, particular this season, has always had massive shades of good v evil, light v dark. What made MIB or his soul so bad to turn him into the monster?

We already know that Jacob had certain powers. The power to make people immortal, etc. For the most part, it seems he used these powers for good. Mother as island protector presumedly had similar powers. If she had the power to make her two "sons" immortal, she probably had the power to destroy a village. Television time and budgets, however, are limited.

We've seen nothing to suggest Jacob had any super powers a la Smokie for example where he could wipe out a village. Complete nothing to suggest this as a possibility.

MIB's body is gone. He is no longer human. All that remains of him now is an extension of the energy beneath the island. As long as that energy is contained by the island, then so is MIB. Therefore, if MIB wants to leave, he has to kill the protector of the island and any potential replacement.

How, when, why can "energy" take human form??!?!?!!? I'm a big fan of yours SP, always have been, and i always liked the Dharma/electromagnetism angles in terms of the possible destruction of the world if the island was sitting on unquantifiable amounts of electromagnetism......BUT COME ON you're saying the energy itself was just sitting there below the island waiting for a body to float in so it could take their soul )presumably bad soul) and take the shape of a black smoke monster and wreak havoc on the island???!

Not having a go or anything but don't see the logic :P

Sid_Justice

Jazzy wrote: »

one of the best posters on this entire site. bang on the money on all accounts there. you dont like football do ya sad professor ?

I see i'm not the only one with a man crush on sad professor

dudeitshurley

Where to start.

Right ok:

1. Alison Janney, Mother, Protector .... she delivers the 2 kids then kills their mother. Reason? So she wouldnt find or try do something to the mystical light in the cave. Yep that cave that MIB subsequently trawled the island many times over for but couldn't find. If this is all a moralistic good v evil situation at heart, how can the Protector, e.g. Jacob, just pre-emptively murder people? It also doesn't even begin to explain the notion of candidates. Jacob implies he believes in the goodness of people. He brings them to the island to prove MIB wrong. Yet the previous Protector had no such time for that jazz, she just preferred to wipe them all out. Very very very perplexing.

2. Smoke Monster. Where to even begin. MIB body washes into a cave, emerges as the smoke monster. So apparently the "energy" in the cave assumes his soul and manifests itself as a psychotic rampaging monster. Yeah like 'energy' can do that obviously. MIB up to that point had done NOTHING, absolutely nothing, to suggest he was a bad person with a dark soul.

I had less problem than many with the Jacob v MIB conflict - I like Pelligrino/Wellivers acting (not to everyones taste i know), i thought they might tie it in well somehow overall. But mostly i liked it because if they INSISTED on going down the good v evil, light v dark route then at least have it on an epic 2000 year old scale and show the origins. But nope we not learn MIB is dead, the 'energy' assumed his rotten soul (yeah he had a murdered mother and wanted to go back home somehow, real rotten dude imo) and wreaks havoc on the island.

3. Donkey Wheel?!?!?! I know stuff coz i'm special? GTFO. More to the point, are we honestly going to believe that "smart people" 2000 years ago figured out a way to use electromagnetism to move an island through time and space using a wooden wheel?!!! jeeeeeeeez these guys make Stephen Hawking look retardedly stupid (no pun intended).

4. Adam & Eve???? Many times been said was included to show they had it planned all along. Complete tripe. So yeah in s1 they had any concept of "the man in black"?!! haha. yeah ok. Cutting to the stock footage i liked because it reminded me of the s1 where there was genuine excitement, not frustration, over each progressing episode. I'm sure now Jack and Kate will be thinking "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so thats who they were, the smoke monster dude and his fake mother!!!"


I'll stop at 4 for now til i get a cup of tea and re-watch it.

Sad Professor

8

dudeitshurley wrote: »

WHY? This interpretation is implying MIB's soul was evil and he became the smoke monster. MIB was just a boy who saw the ghost of his dead mother who said this other weirdo 'mom' of yours killed me and my family/friends are a) not from around here and b) living elsewhere on the island. So he leaves, grows up and tries to find his way off the island. You will surely agree Lost, particular this season, has always had massive shades of good v evil, light v dark. What made MIB or his soul so bad to turn him into the monster?

I'm not saying he's evil at all. I agree, he was just a boy who had a deranged mother and was led astray. As he told Kate, he had "growing pains". He wanted to leave the island and have a normal life, but his head was filled with all the bullsh*t she told him.

But no matter how deranged Mother was, she was probably right about the danger posed by the energy. She didn't exactly like people, but she didn't want to see the world destroyed either. Her distrust of humanity was useful given her job. Jacob got the best of her. But MIB inherited her worst qualities.

In the end he sought to escape by harnessing the energy of the island. Mother couldn't allow this. She intervened, he killed her, and then his own brother killed him in retaliation. It's no wonder he turned into a big black smoke monster. There's nothing more dangerous than a man who's really a screwed up little kid at heart.

That doesn't make him evil. But it does make him extremely dangerous. Whoever he once was is gone. This is why Jacob said goodbye to his body. The thing flying around the island is not his brother anymore.

We've seen nothing to suggest Jacob had any super powers a la Smokie for example where he could wipe out a village. Complete nothing to suggest this as a possibility.

No, but Jacob and Mother did have substantial powers. Just because they chose to use them a certain way doesn't mean they couldn't potentially use them a different way. Their power (like everything on the island) surely stems from the same energy that created Smokey. I don't think super powers were needed to destroy the village anyway.

It's a bit of a plot hole, but a minor one, in a series that was never strong on plot.

BUT COME ON you're saying the energy itself was just sitting there below the island waiting for a body to float in so it could take their soul )presumably bad soul) and take the shape of a black smoke monster and wreak havoc on the island???!

Maybe there will be more on it, maybe not. But look, it's magic. We just have to accept it. I mean, it's a bloody smoke monster. We found out what it is (a screwed up kid with mommy issues) and we found out how it became a smoke monster (his brother threw him into a magic cave). That's enough for me. The alternative was a far more bullsh*t-sounding explanation involving nanobots. At least the writers did what they did in he context of a drama.

dudeitshurley

Sad Professor wrote: »

I'm not saying he's evil at all. I agree, he was just a boy who had a deranged mother and was led astray. As he told Kate, he had "growing pains". He wanted to leave the island and have a normal life, but his head was filled with all the bullsh*t she told him.

But no matter how deranged Mother was, she was probably right about the danger posed by the energy. She didn't exactly like people, but she didn't want to see the world destroyed either. Her distrust of humanity was useful given her job. Jacob got the best of her. But MIB inherited her worst qualities.

In the end he sought to escape by harnessing the energy of the island. Mother couldn't allow this. She intervened, he killed her, and then his own brother killed him in retaliation. It's no wonder he turned into a big black smoke monster. There's nothing more dangerous than a man who's really a screwed up little kid at heart.

That doesn't make him evil. But it does make him extremely dangerous. Whoever he once was is gone. This is why Jacob said goodbye to his body. The thing flying around the island is not his brother anymore.


No, but Jacob and Mother did have substantial powers. Just because they chose to use them a certain way doesn't mean they couldn't potentially use them a different way. Their power (like everything on the island) surely stems from the same energy that created Smokey. I don't think super powers were needed to destroy the village anyway.

It's a bit of a plot hole, but a minor one, in a series that was never strong on plot.


Maybe there will be more on it, maybe not. But look, it's magic. We just have to accept it. I mean, it's a bloody smoke monster. We found out what it is (a screwed up kid with mommy issues) and we found out how it became a smoke monster (his brother threw him into a magic cave). That's enough for me. The alternative was a far more bullsh*t-sounding explanation involving nanobots. At least the writers did what they did in he context of a drama.

I mean look clearly even going back to s1 it's obvious the explanation for the Smoke Monster wouldn't be scientific BUT honestly - all these seasons later its randomly a dead body floating into the cave full of light/energy whose soul manifests as a pillar of smoke?!!!! sigh

I don't really know how to respond. MIB, to me anyway: Shown to be a normal kid, told his mom was murdered, left, when he tried to leave the island full stop the "Mother" smashes his head against the wall. As if killing his mother wasn't reason enough to think she was evil/deranged, that might be the straw that breaks the camels back. So he stabs her. Jacob doesn't even intentionally kill him either, pedantic maybe. If anything MIB is shown to be sane, normal and logical, not messed up or evil.

There's so much in this episode that in overall terms is completely nonsensical and contradictory. It's tough to know where to start.

sprinkles

5

Just finished watching it. I have to admit I was disappointed but at the same time we found out a lot. I can't really understand the extent of the hatred for this episode - I mean some people are completely over reacting on this one! It kinda sounds like it's becoming "cool" to hate Lost.

Granted we did not find out all the answers we craved in this episode but then again we didn't find them out in any of the previous episodes - there are still 2 episodes left so they still have time to solve it all - I have faith!

I thought the flashbacks to season 1 were handled quite well. While I probably have made the link to Adam & Eve I may not have done - in fairness I hadn't seen that episode in over 4 years. I'm not as obsessed about the show that I need to read/watch/listen to everything that pops up on the internet about it. I prefer to watch the show, in chronological order and most of the time I don't rewatch episodes, so for I thanks the writers for sticking that scene in to jog the memory.

Mr Freeze

1

me-skywalker wrote: »

really?????!!! they did not just use some stock footage from season 1.... or did I imagine that? that didn't? did they?

THEY DID!!! OMFG! What do they take us for! Might aswell tell my mate to not even bother watching season 6 when he gets to it on. Pure drivel.

This is just the writers trying to make us think that they planned all this Jacob craic from day one!

Pish I say!

slave1

9

Well, I don't know, the majority of posts appear to rip the episode yet the votes give it the thumbs up, guess this is a case of agreeing to disagree, none of us are right and none of us are wrong, guess your opinion comes from what you take of it, but we are a very critical lot, obviously there are a lot better screenwriters in Ireland.

Basq

Cheers out slave1 and his "bar-graph skillz"!

Sid_Justice

I always felt the scoring system was almost completely worthless. There is no base line. Like you read people giving it a 9/10 or something and then listing a million things they hated. I'd wonder what a bad lost episode is. Maybe the scale should be 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8.1,8.2,8.3,+.1 10.

Basq

Let's not forget this rule of the forum which has been in place for over 2 years:

Commenting on unfair voting in episode discussion threads = INSTA-BANNING!

In many of the episode discussion threads recently, there has been an overwhelming number of posts complaining about how people are voting on the polls (i.e that too many people are voting high for a mediocre episode).

At first, it was a comment here and there but has become more and more frequent as of late. So i'm putting a stop to it here-and-now:

• Anyone who comments on "unfair" or "unrealistic" ratings in the episode discussion polls will be banned without question.

It may be harsh but it makes episode discussion threads recently messy and usually ends up in a heated argument between forum members.

These type of posts add absolutely nothing to the episode discussion thread. This is my first and final warning on the subject!