[US/IRL] 6x15 - "Across The Sea" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

opinion guy

5

Foxtrol wrote: »

Exactly but answers have always been balanced with further questions being posed.

Yeah did you spot the easter egg on this ?

Teenage MIB is asking mom questions and she says something like a "answers only need to more quesitons" to shut him up.

F**kin writers are just taking the piss out of the fans at this stage

opr

3

jordainius wrote: »

Cuse and Lindelof themselves hinted that this episode would show that they didn't make it up as they went along, they wanted to show the link between now and season one. They still haven't convinced me that they had it all mapped out from the beginning but there was nothing wrong with putting in a few brief flashes of season one just to show the connection.

The whole point is that for fans of the show this would have been a really nice easter egg whether you copped the link straight away, by reading forums or by talking with friends etc. This has always been the LOST way!

Instead they choose to hit you over the head with it treating the viewer with complete distain!

Opr

Benny Lava

I was quite disappointed with this episode. It was a bit predictable. The formation of the Smoke Monster was probably the biggest letdown of the episode. Then the flashback to series one, to be honest I don't remember that part where Jack found the black and white yokes but I know I've seen it because I've seen every episode.

Let's hope the next one is set in the present time.

opinion guy

5

seadnamac wrote: »

I actually enjoyed it. I thought they handled showing us how Jabob and MIB ended up with conflicting ambitions well and showing us that MIB is infact dead was a big reveal, for Lost standards anyway.

People should also remember that MIB was perfectly capable of leaving the island just like anyone else, he just hadn't found a way before he died. The MIB that has trouble leaving the island now is not Jacobs brother, but some form of evil incarnate/smoke monster thingy.

Jacob and MIB could both be killed, and MIB was. Their mother was just lying to them so they would'nt fight, as mothers do. Jacob now can't die or age because he drank the wine. What is the wine? Why is it powerful? Do we just have to accept it? Probably.

Completely agree 100%.

Also - Jacob was also able to leave the island. We know this because we have seen him off island in multiple flashbacks sending the losties on their way to the island. Which meant MIB can too. Mother was just telling porkies to keep the brats in line (I guess they hadn't heard of santa round those parts).

jimbling

7

Thought it was a great episode. Maybe not as good as I was hoping for, but good none the less.

Not really sure about a lot of things in it, need to re-watch it later. So, I'll save my judgement and comments for then.

waltersobchak wrote: »

I cant believe an episode that promised so much delivered so little, especially so late into the series and indeed the show, that was fu*king shocking, honestly these last 2 episodes better live up to expectations.. Because ive wasted the last 6 years of my life otherwise

lmao, seriously dude, you must lead a very very sad life

And I'll tell you this now, the last two episodes are NOT going to live up to your expectations.

jimbling

7

Oh, and my theory didn't exactly pan out.....

jimbling wrote: »

And I reckon Jacob and MiB are brothers/twins.
It would also explain the comments MiB made about his "Mother". I reckon MiB was the older boy and by default should have inherited, or taken control of the island. But Jacob, being the preferred son, was entrusted with the Job. MiB then grew bitter and twisted and somehow ended up as smokey and seeking revenge on his younger brother and the world in general.

You read it here first folks

At least I got the twins bit right :rolleyes:

The guy

5

jimbling wrote: »

Oh, and my theory didn't exactly pan out.....



At least I got the twins bit right :rolleyes:

I said that also:

The guy wrote: »

I thought those two kids were meant to be MiB and Jacob, how they grew up together on the island until they took their roles that they carry out today which separated them.

Although I wasn't too correct about their lives though.

Agamemnon

7

Hmm, I enjoyed the start and end of that, but the middle third was very predictable and drawn-out. Are Lindelof & Cuse out of practice at screen-writing or something?

So did Smokey build the donkey wheel himself after the real MIB died? Or is there some other arcane rule (i.e. clumsy plot device) that says he can't build things, only influence others to do it? When the island moves, presumably the evil under it goes with it. Looks like MIB and Smokey were hoping that only the "cork" would move but the bottle came with it.

As other posters have said, the moral blurring between Jacob and MIB's positions was well handled, a better way to do it than having one good and one evil.

So Jacob got his powers from his stepmother, who got her powers from...? I'll be charitable and assume we'll at least be given a hint in the final episodes.

Was it just me or did Kate look hotter in the flashback clip form S1? She was positively glowing. It made up for the awkwardness of including the clip anyway.

jimbling

7

oh, meant to mention about the flashback to season 1...that was absolutely pathetic. If people didn't get that they were adam and eve then showing them that clip isn't going to help much is it.
Would have been much more better if they just carried on with the story.... left it to the viewers to decipher it.

slowmoe

5

i thought when the mother said the light was something that everyman had inside him, it was to represent the light of a soul or something? That mostly its really good but a pinch of bold in it as well, and after the light got a hold of mib afterkilling his mother hewas pretty bad and the bad 'leeched' onto him as such???

Worst explanation ever i know.

also when the mother said to mib that he couldnt die, i thought maybe she had done that for him only not for him and jacob as she always expected him to take her place and not jacob? perhaps him not being able to leave the island was a trade off for his eternal life? Either way i don't think she did the same things for jacob as she did for him.

Or its possible that babies born on the island don't die?

im really disappointed to find out that jacob seems to know as little as everyone else. at the start we all thought the others knew everything then it turns out they know nothing and we thought ben knew it all, he also knows nothing and we thought richard knew everything, but now he doesn't know anything so surely the head man knows it all-but no jacob seems to not have a clue either.

If jacob doesn't have any real power how did he give richard eternal life?


did the mother definitely kill the villagers and knock through the well? Seems like a lot of work for an old woman


all in all i was quite disappointed with this episode. I love the mythology of lost but this just didn't cut the mustard. There wasn't much of anything, just a couple of days as kids and a couple of days as adults. Not much answers or explanations and just alot of random info and conversations that didn't contribute much to the story. The point of this was surely to fill in a few blannks about the past to contribute to the ending of the story but it acted like a seperate show almost and really didn't give that much except for the mib reveal to the main show.

RolandIRL

8

i though that was a class episode...explained how the smoke monster was created by the death of jacob's brother. i just realised that the smoke monster is able to assume dead people's identities, so locke(smokie) isn't actually jacob's brother, is he? cos jacob's brother died because of the cave of light, and the smoke monster took his identity.

what time period did the real john locke turn the wheel that stopped the time travel in the 5th season? was it back before the statue jacob lived in was hit by the black rock or after? just trying to put a year on when that episode took place.

Mr. Incognito

1

To Paraphrase Comic Book Guy=

Worst Episode. Ever.

So Mommy can blowtorch a village, fill in a giant well and kill everyone and make it home in time for tea before MIB wakes up from a wallop.

The Guardian can make people live forever by protecting the source. That's great. Cheers. So it's light, death and rebirth. What the hell does withmore want with it then? Can hardly carry it around in his wallet. And when someone goes in there, well we know what happens- smokie gets out. Makes NO sense. None.

Dharma drill into the source and have to build the swan station to channel the energy before it blows everything the fcuk up and yet MIB can remove a stone and nothing happens, oh and he's wearing a dagger at the time which sticks to the well wall but the light has no effect on down the well at all.

Adam and Eve in the cave. What is he, like a necropheliac. Bury the bodies maybe? Maybe he wanted to come give the decomposing bodies a hug for christmas every year. Remarkable that the bones and clothes and the bag lasted circa 2000 FRICKING YEARS???!!!! Yea, bite me. Quick, stick in a flashback to when people felt warm and fuzzy about the show, maybe the remembered love will reflect to the worst episode of all time.

Oh and remember the time travel. Yeah, how did that happen exactly. MIB and Jacob's hastily inserted nonesense story means that the whole of how they started time travelling halfway through the show and WILL NEVER BE EXPLAINED. The source of life doesn't have a Delorian back to the future calendar built in does it.

I am so angry that rational thought is beyond me.

That's it. Lost is officially the worst let down of all time.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

8

Seems like I'm in the minority on this one... I really liked it and agree wholeheartedly with what Sad Professor has said on the matter...
I don't need every little thing answered... I'm just along for the ride... Thought this was just as good as Ab Aeterno - if they had aired the episode earlier in the season, I don't think people would be having such a negative reaction and maybe it would've fit in better earlier on, but that said it was a good episode regardless of when it aired in the series...

waltersobchak

4

jimbling wrote: »

lmao, seriously dude, you must lead a very very sad life

And I'll tell you this now, the last two episodes are NOT going to live up to your expectations.

How do you know what my expectations are? All i what is a satisfying end to a shows ive invested 6 years of my life in to watching, theorising and discussing with my friends and family, its not fu*king much to ask at the end of the day..

the_monkey

8

opinion guy wrote: »

(incidentally CJ's Spanish SUCKS BALLS),

I think she was speaking latin at the beginning.

homerun_homer

5

slowmoe wrote: »

im really disappointed to find out that jacob seems to know as little as everyone else. at the start we all thought the others knew everything then it turns out they know nothing and we thought ben knew it all, he also knows nothing and we thought richard knew everything, but now he doesn't know anything so surely the head man knows it all-but no jacob seems to not have a clue either.

If jacob doesn't have any real power how did he give richard eternal life?

The mother 'cast a spell' or said a prayer over the wine before passing it to Jacob and with this she granted him eternal life and possibly knowledge. She told him "we are the same now" so he probably gained all her knowledge. This is no doubt the moment he went from being a normal man to... something else, god like as we once thought he might have been.

whiteman19 wrote: »

i though that was a class episode...explained how the smoke monster was created by the death of jacob's brother. i just realised that the smoke monster is able to assume dead people's identities, so locke(smokie) isn't actually jacob's brother, is he? cos jacob's brother died because of the cave of light, and the smoke monster took his identity.

Lostpedia so far has it written along the same lines of my thinking earlier, which is that MIB's physical body is done with and the Black Smoke is what is left, his soul. In my mind, the show will have to state that this is wrong because FLocke already said "I was a man once", and the mother said it was a fate worse than death to enter. It's too late to have an origin tale of MIB/Smokie and then to tell us yet that smokie isn't MIB incarnate.

blue_steel

9

opinion guy wrote: »

Man In Black IS NOT the smoke monster. Man In Black is dead. The smoke monster has taken his form, just as it later takes the form of John Locke (and in both cases aspects of their personality).

Thinking about this more I'm not so sure now. Maybe MIBs corporeal form died but entering the tunnel caused his spirit to transmigrate to Smokie form? His mother did tell Jacob that entering the cave would lead to "a fate worse than death" which wouldn't be true if MIB simply died and Smokie escaped. Maybe he was taken by the evil that Smokie is a manifestation of and altered somehow (similar to what Alpert said would happen to Ben if he was taken to the temple).
Flock told Sawyer he was once a man just like him and also told Kate about his mother so isn't he still MIB to some extent?

speedboatchase

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

To Paraphrase Comic Book Guy=

Worst Episode. Ever.

So Mommy can blowtorch a village, fill in a giant well and kill everyone and make it home in time for tea before MIB wakes up from a wallop.

The Guardian can make people live forever by protecting the source. That's great. Cheers. So it's light, death and rebirth. What the hell does withmore want with it then? Can hardly carry it around in his wallet. And when someone goes in there, well we know what happens- smokie gets out. Makes NO sense. None.

Dharma drill into the source and have to build the swan station to channel the energy before it blows everything the fcuk up and yet MIB can remove a stone and nothing happens, oh and he's wearing a dagger at the time which sticks to the well wall but the light has no effect on down the well at all.

Adam and Eve in the cave. What is he, like a necropheliac. Bury the bodies maybe? Maybe he wanted to come give the decomposing bodies a hug for christmas every year. Remarkable that the bones and clothes and the bag lasted circa 2000 FRICKING YEARS???!!!! Yea, bite me. Quick, stick in a flashback to when people felt warm and fuzzy about the show, maybe the remembered love will reflect to the worst episode of all time.

Oh and remember the time travel. Yeah, how did that happen exactly. MIB and Jacob's hastily inserted nonesense story means that the whole of how they started time travelling halfway through the show and WILL NEVER BE EXPLAINED. The source of life doesn't have a Delorian back to the future calendar built in does it.

I am so angry that rational thought is beyond me.

That's it. Lost is officially the worst let down of all time.

Hey he's right - dammit!

homerun_homer

5

Also notice how when Jacob offers MIB food when we first saw them on the show MIB remarked he already ate. Then with the wine MIB broke the bottle.
I'd go on to say that makes the scene of re-animated Locke eating the Mango on the beach relevant since he took great pleasure in it but he hadn't killed Jacob at that point.

opinion guy

5

the_monkey wrote: »

I think she was speaking latin at the beginning.

Maybe. I wasn't paying too muhc attention to the words, what with the ear-piercingly flat vowels that only Americans can achieve.

blue_steel wrote: »

Thinking about this more I'm not so sure now. Maybe MIBs corporeal form died but entering the tunnel caused his spirit to transmigrate to Smokie form? His mother did tell Jacob that entering the cave would lead to "a fate worse than death" which wouldn't be true if MIB simply died and Smokie escaped. Maybe he was taken by the evil that Smokie is a manifestation of and altered somehow (similar to what Alpert said would happen to Ben if he was taken to the temple).
Flock told Sawyer he was once a man just like him and also told Kate about his mother so isn't he still MIB to some extent?

Eh no. We've already seen smokie take on traits of John Locke since becoming him. I think smokie is just inherits the memories of the bodies he inhabits. He inherited MIB's memories and in turn some of Lockes -> "You can't tell me what I can't do". After all if it it the spirit of MIB, then it can't also be the spirit of John Locke. No I'm pretty sure MIB is dead and smokie is some other beast entirely, albeit with some borrowed character traits and memories. Plus he could just be a lying bastid. So he said he was a man and said he had a crazy mother - he could just be using someone elses true memories to convince people.


Interestingly thou another reveal int his episode - MIB, the human MIB anyhow could see dead people. Possibly this is how he was special and how he knew to build a wheel. Maybe the dead people have their own agenda.

BigAl81

4

Pants.... utter pants!

Big Lost fan, but this episode was pointless filler. The finale better be the best hour or two of TV this year or there'll be a lot of disappointed Lost-ies (word?) out there!

Go Team.

blue_steel

9

opinion guy wrote: »

Maybe. I wasn't paying too muhc attention to the words, what with the ear-piercingly flat vowels that only Americans can achieve.



Eh no. We've already seen smokie take on traits of John Locke since becoming him. I think smokie is just inherits the memories of the bodies he inhabits. He inherited MIB's memories and in turn some of Lockes -> "You can't tell me what I can't do". After all if it it the spirit of MIB, then it can't also be the spirit of John Locke. No I'm pretty sure MIB is dead and smokie is some other beast entirely, albeit with some borrowed character traits and memories. Plus he could just be a lying bastid. So he said he was a man and said he had a crazy mother - he could just be using someone elses true memories to convince people.


Interestingly thou another reveal int his episode - MIB, the human MIB anyhow could see dead people. Possibly this is how he was special and how he knew to build a wheel. Maybe the dead people have their own agenda.

So Mammy was lying and MIB was lying? If even one more thing on LOST is explained away by "maybe they were lying" I will put my foot through the tv set :pac:

Edit: So smokie is an entity that desperately wants to leave the island who just happens to take possession of MIB who, when alive, also desperately wanted to leave the island? Na not buying it. I think MIB entered the cave and was altered into the smoke monster.

joe123

What a load of ****e.

So we find this woman who mysteriously is on the island and knows alot of stuff. She kills the biological mother raises the two sons where we were led to believe one was good one was evil.

She shows them this daft magical cave of light. She gives Jacob a drink that stops him from growing old?? Same drink he gave richard?

Where did this magical drink come from?

Jacob doesnt know what the hells going on. We are THEN led to believe that the mother can wipe out an entire village including barbarian style men. Kills them all. Lets the son live?

Jacob accidentally kills his brother and then the smoke monster comes from the magical cave of light.

What a load of utter nonsense. Did they come up with this script last week or something?

****ing hell that was awful.


EDIT: And another thing. If they were made out infact not to be "gods" well then how the hell can someone like MIB just realise that by turning a wheel with water and light will get him off the island???

Why didnt the mother say to Jacob before he drank the drink. "Hey son listen. When you drink that youl never grow old. Dont go down that tunnel because this old man once told me it will kill you, take your body and release a horrible evil. Also I know how to destroy entire villages because I can do something like this *gets up and becomes smokey* . I also lied about you not being able to hurt your brother. Dont go throwing him against rocks now or anything. And dont throw him into the magical cave of light that would be a boo boo."

opinion guy

5

By the way, the opening scene, the biological mum crawling ashore.

Was I the only one thinking "ah f**k who da f**k is this f**kin new character they're bringing in NOW, at the end...AHHGIAG*%&£&%*£$%(£%

ricero

is it just me but after that episode i actually want the mib/smokie to win now and get off the island

p.s that mother was a c*nt :mad:

hynesie08

One thing that I'm not sure if it's been touched on here, Jacob believed whatever he was told by his mother even when presented with evidence to the contrary. Whereas mib was always looking for reasons/explanations for everything. Not sure about anybody else but this tied in for me with the jack/locke man of science man of faith storyline that's been prevalent since the start.

Jazzy

serious Gaia thing going on in lost now

MJRS

2

I'm so confused.. When I was watching the episode, I thought that

Actually, no, I don't know where to begin.

FreudianSlippers

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

To Paraphrase Comic Book Guy=

Worst Episode. Ever.

So Mommy can blowtorch a village, fill in a giant well and kill everyone and make it home in time for tea before MIB wakes up from a wallop.

The Guardian can make people live forever by protecting the source. That's great. Cheers. So it's light, death and rebirth. What the hell does withmore want with it then? Can hardly carry it around in his wallet. And when someone goes in there, well we know what happens- smokie gets out. Makes NO sense. None.

Dharma drill into the source and have to build the swan station to channel the energy before it blows everything the fcuk up and yet MIB can remove a stone and nothing happens, oh and he's wearing a dagger at the time which sticks to the well wall but the light has no effect on down the well at all.

Adam and Eve in the cave. What is he, like a necropheliac. Bury the bodies maybe? Maybe he wanted to come give the decomposing bodies a hug for christmas every year. Remarkable that the bones and clothes and the bag lasted circa 2000 FRICKING YEARS???!!!! Yea, bite me. Quick, stick in a flashback to when people felt warm and fuzzy about the show, maybe the remembered love will reflect to the worst episode of all time.

Oh and remember the time travel. Yeah, how did that happen exactly. MIB and Jacob's hastily inserted nonesense story means that the whole of how they started time travelling halfway through the show and WILL NEVER BE EXPLAINED. The source of life doesn't have a Delorian back to the future calendar built in does it.

I am so angry that rational thought is beyond me.

That's it. Lost is officially the worst let down of all time.

I totally agree with you on some major points you've made. I absolutely hated this episode, like 1/10. I may have enjoyed it more if it wasn't the 3rd to last episode, but they're really taking the piss now.

opinion guy

5

Jazzy wrote: »

serious Gaia thing going on in lost now

I was thinking maybe Garden of Eden actually