[US/IRL] 6x04 - "The Substitute" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Psychedelic wrote: »

Yeah I wonder what the story is with Eloise. In the season 5 finale, Richard knocked her out and took her somewhere (probably the temple). When the bomb went off how come she wasn't transported to 2007 along with Richard and everyone else on the island? Maybe he got her on the sub somehow, and she goes off the island to give birth to Faraday. I don't know how Widmore will fit in to this again, he seemed really important in the grand scheme of things but not so much lately, same with Ben.

Richard wasn't transported to 2007. Neither was anyone else except Jack, Juliet, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Jin, Miles and Sayid (ie. the people who actually went back in time).

Richard is ageless, as shown how he was in 1954 and looked the same, but he didn't know John Locke, even though he had met him in 2004 before the time flashes started. For some reason, he doesn't get any older. Eloise does, so after The Incident in 1977 when Richard knocks her out, she leaves the island somehow and raises Daniel. And she gets older as time goes on.

So after The Incident, only the people who went back in time were transported to 2007. Richard, Eloise etc stayed in their own time and lived for about another 25 years before Oceanic 815 crashed on the island

If anything that episode makes the numbers more mysterious, but thankfully people seem to think thats answered so hopefully we can all move on.

The Hurley scene was kind of cool but the Rose one really seemed tacked on, I hope there is a point to these coincidences and they are not just excuses to revisit all the old characters. As I'm really liking the flashsideways for the most part.

But it was Bens scene that was really interesting. This confirms the island did not end up at the bottom of the ocean as a result of the bomb. It happened sometime later, as Ben was still been held by the Others in the Temple. And Ben seemed alright in the flashsideways despite Richards warning that he would never be the same after they took him. So what did happen to Ben as a result of been healed? What is the real reason he became a psycho if he is indeed normal in the flashsideways? And what event happened on the island to force someone to move the island to the bottom of the ocean or for it to sink?

Lapidus was funny as usual but I really don't see the point of him as a character unless, unfortunatly, its for cannon fodder reasons. Jin and Sun have been so marginalised for the last two seasons it'll be hard to care for their big reunion, shame.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Re: the island being underwater

Does anyone else think there's some connection between this and the fact that Dharma used a submarine to get to/from the island? In "One of Us" Richard/Ethan described the trip as being "bumpy" and "intense" and insisted that Juliet be asleep for the ride. I always thought there was something to this.

Later on, we saw people came to/from the island quite easily using rafts, helicopters, etc. Why a submarine?

i thought it could be something to do with the time bearing, like in the Constant? or it might be something to do with stealth too, the submarine would get into the island unseen, whereas a boat or plane wouldn't.

Draupnir wrote: »

One other thing, when the boy told MIB "you can't kill him". I thought that he was talking about Sawyer, so I personally feel that MIB/Smoke monster can't kill candidates.

From that, I'm thinking that the times we saw him appear to people and "judge" them he was checking to see if they were candidates, going back to their most vulnerable times and checking to see if they had met Jacob. Once he had figured out if they were candidates or not, he could kill them or not, seems to fit for Eko maybe?

Would explain why he killed the pilot but not Charlie, Jack or Kate in the Pilot episode. Would also explain why he let Locke live too.

I really like this theory. Would really explain why Smokie didnt kill them.

Im not one to complain when we get answers, but I thought that the whole numbers relating to the candidates was just an easy way for the producers to explain the numbers. Saying that, Id rather them being explained and I really like it, even if it was just the producers taking the easy route.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Very interesting. This would explain why he didn't turn into smoke to chase after the kid. Might also add some credence to the idea that he was once held captive in the cabin while still being able to roam the island as the smoke monster.


I like this. I was thinking something similar.


If what Draupnir said about Smokey not being able to kill candidates is correct, then perhaps the initial "lists" of people which the Others captured were non-candidates - people not safe from Smokey. The Others took them to the Temple to protect them.

I really like all this.

I have this warm fuzzy feeling inside that the show is really starting to come together. There is a sense that all 6 seasons have a purpose. Flocke said the most important question is why are they on the island. Of course to us it's are they making it up as they go along. I am really hopeful now about that.

Amazing the difference 1 episode makes hey.

Good episode, not amazing though.

My first problem is with the numbers. They didn't explain them they just designated a name to them. What I want to know is how are those numbers the most important when there were clearly dozens up on the wall of the cave, yet the 6 numbers were the ones that Hurley won the lottery with, that were part of the beacon, hatch numbers etc... why not the other ones?

Secondly, the flash sideways all seems to be a little contrived imo. It's as if the writers are just shoe horning characters into roles in the alt reality to take away from the fact that the story is going no where (or at least appears to be going no where). Perhaps they are looking at the possibility of a spin off alternate reality show... :rolleyes: cause at the rate they are travelling they have a lot to tie up in both dimensions!

Really looking forward to seeing what Richard does... he's becoming one of my favorite characters and I hope he has a bigger role in things to come - kill off Kate if needs be!!!

Dubs wrote: »

How does Jacob get to and from the island? Is it because he's magic or does he have his own personal yacht or something?

Well when Ben turned the wheel he was "teleported" to the real world so Im sure Jacob has some telepoter on the island.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah, Cusick is no longer a series regular, so we are probably going to see even less of him than we did last season. He was technically a guest star in the premiere.

But how come he is still listed as a series regular in the credits?

The current explanation of the numbers is very weak imo

I hope that there is a deeper meaning than any of the characters ever thought.

Smoke Monster being anchored onto transformation is a very good point and so is the point about Sawyer being played just like Ben.

Jacob and MiB seem to want to stand to their beliefs (black and white theme) but in the current artistic climate I feel that it will come down to, one set of ideals vs. another set of ideals, both which the audience will agree with but cannot decide which they'd want more.

If there was no Alternative Timeline in this seasons episodes i would be much happier TBH. One thing about the flash backs was how the characters were linked in certain ways is carried into the Alt timeline where there seems to be IMO either no island or no jacob to influence them to come to it, but is looking more and more like "fan" episodes were we are supposed to get a kick out of Ben being a teacher and Ethan being a doctor etc etc. The numbers explanation was fairly poor but overall a good episode (apart from the alt timeline storyline which is mostly filler and going absolutely nowhere).