Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

[US/IRL] 6x04 - "The Substitute" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Options
13567

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,812 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    8
    Now THAT'S more like it!

    With regards to the scrawled names & numbers - of the original survivors, why Jack, Sayid, Sawyer, Locke, (Sun/Jin) Kwon and Hugo, and not Claire or Kate? Seeing as it's a candidate to server as protector of the Island.. and not to sound sexist.. but it might just suggest Jacob's replacement should be male and was always meant to be male. But could be wrong!

    Couple of fantastic lines and moments such as Locke throwing the light stone into the sea and saying "in-joke" and the "John Locke, substitute" line was magnificent too.

    Locke's episodes are always very good, and this was no exception!

    Oh.. I sincerally hope that the Flash Sideways do continue with how a storyline set out in one. As in when we see's Ben Flash Sideways, we get more interaction with Locke. What I mean is I hope they're not a flash in the pan moment just to demonstrate how these characters would have interacted if things played out off the island.

    Deserved of a 9.


  • Options
    #63
    silsean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭silsean


    7
    I was thinking today about the parallel timelines (they aren't "alternate" as the writers have said). I was wondering why i seem to think the onisland timeline is the primary timeline and the offisland is a secondary timeline. We still don't know which way Jacks bomb went. They're both supposed to be of equal value for the moment until we're told what the deal is.

    You know how "They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt; it always ends the same."
    "It only ends once, anything that happens before that is just progress."
    So i'm going to have a guess that the onisland action will come to an end by the end of the first third (as the writers have said one timeline would) by way of "it always ends the same" (whatever that means) and we see the offisland through to the end of the season where an attempt at ending it differently is made (by Jack and an atom bomb!). So what i mean is that the onislanders will die or blow themselves off the face of the planet (they're story basically finishes) and the offislanders will find their way onto the island to complete season 6.


    I'm loving the Jacob theme music from last years finale in this episode. The music overall is feeling like a movie for S6.

    Oh and perhaps that kid isn't Aaron or Jacob. I'm going to give a wild guess that it's a new character..


  • Options
    #64
    tony1kenobi
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭tony1kenobi


    recylingbin wrote: »
    I get that he has assigned them numbers. But why are these the same numbers typed into the computer to diffuse the electromagnetic energy?
    Why did they win Hurley the lottery?
    etc.

    edit: I hate Kate. She adds nothing.

    Hurley won the lottery to get him to the island.Numbers in the computer bla bla...Desmond on the island?.....missing a vital point I feel but ya get the idea?


  • Options
    #65
    recylingbin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    7
    I do.
    All I'm saying is that the numbers being assigned to each character isn't an explanation as far as I'm concerned.
    We've learnt something more about them. But not their 'magic' for want of a better word.


  • Options
    #66
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    I'm on Smokey's side from here on out.

    Let him off the damn island!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    9
    My interpretation of the numbers and of the significance of their reveal in this episode is that their continuous reoccurrence throughout the character's pre-island lives was all evidence of Jacob's manipulation. Dharma were probably brought to the island by Jacob as well, hence their use of the numbers. Although I reckon there's still more to be revealed on this front.

    The complete absence of the numbers in the parallel timeline was noted by many people in the premiere. I think the fact that the characters are still meeting and interacting despite the absence of Jacob and the island suggests that UnLocke is not telling the whole truth.

    I don't think the "magic" of the numbers will be explained. Nor does it need to be.


  • Options
    #68
    silsean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭silsean


    7
    recylingbin wrote: »
    I do.
    All I'm saying is that the numbers being assigned to each character isn't an explanation as far as I'm concerned.
    We've learnt something more about them. But not their 'magic' for want of a better word.

    I'm with you on this one. It's great to get some information on the numbers but nothing has yet being explained. I bet Claire is 69. Because she had a bun in the oven..


  • Options
    #69
    silsean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭silsean


    7
    Sorry... But how the F**k did Lockes father, Cooper, go from driving down a road to being in a room on an island. What's the magic box thing!?

    I'm done whining.


  • Options
    #70
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    9
    People are still deciphering them and probably will be for a while, but here's the best list of the numbers/names on the wall I could find.
    4 - Locke (John)
    8 - Reyes (Hurley)
    10 - Mattingley - Other
    15 - Ford (James)
    16 - Jarrah (Sayid)
    23 - Shephard (Jack)
    31 - Rutherford (Shannon)
    42 - Kwon (Jin or Sun)
    56 - Burke - (Juliet)
    64 - Goodspeed (Ethan Horace Olivia or Amy)
    70 - Faraday (Daniel)
    73 - Costa - ?
    90 - Troupe - ?
    115 - Bargas - ?
    117 - Linus (Ben, Roger)
    119 - Almeida - ?
    142 - Lewis (Charlotte)
    171 - Straume (Miles)
    195 - Pace (Charlie)
    222 - O'Toole - U.S. Military
    233 - Jones - U.S. Military
    291 - Domingo - U.S. Military
    313 - Littleton (Claire or Aaron)
    317 - Cunningham - U.S. Military
    337 - Martin (Karl) - Other
    346 - Grant - U.S. Military

    Partial
    20 - Rous (Possibly Rousseau)
    25 - ___
    30 - ___
    33 - ___
    49 - Cha (Possibly Chang)
    62 - ___
    251 - ___
    260 - ___
    272 - ___
    285 - Jen (Possibly Jenkins)
    __ - Reynolds
    __ - Sullivan
    __ - Lacombe


  • Options
    #71
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    9
    silsean wrote: »
    Sorry... But how the F**k did Lockes father, Cooper, go from driving down a road to being in a room on an island. What's the magic box thing!?
    Cooper - the Others captured him and brought him there apparently so Ben could play mind games with Locke. I was always underwhelmed by this explanation though.

    The magic box - it was a metaphor for the island.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    recylingbin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    7
    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    I'm on Smokey's side from here on out.

    Let him off the damn island!

    What if he's a Zod (from superman) type character and the island is his prism prison?
    *scared*


  • Options
    #73
    recylingbin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    7
    Sad Professor wrote: »
    The complete absence of the numbers in the parallel timeline was noted by many people in the premiere. I think the fact that the characters are still meeting and interacting despite the absence of Jacob and the island suggests that UnLocke is not telling the whole truth.
    We don't know that to be true. If the island is underwater, it happened before Jacob was killed. Maybe he's still alive, off the island.
    I don't think the "magic" of the numbers will be explained. Nor does it need to be.
    It better be. They did nothing but bombard us with the numbers for 5 series. I think we deserve an explanation.


  • Options
    #74
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,162 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Just to go back to the blonde kid theory: my impression was that it was Zach (one of the kids from the tail section who got kidnapped)? He'd still be an other at this stage, havign spent three years with them, and he did look like he was wearing temple-garb. He could be the overlooked secret in all this.

    Any takers?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Options
    #75
    recylingbin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    7
    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Just to go back to the blonde kid theory: my impression was that it was Zach (one of the kids from the tail section who got kidnapped)? He'd still be an other at this stage, havign spent three years with them, and he did look like he was wearing temple-garb. He could be the overlooked secret in all this.

    Any takers?

    Zach (and Emma) were in LA X episode and, as far as I can recall, he didn't look like that.


  • Options
    #76
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    9
    I bet Claire is 69. Because she had a bun in the oven..

    I don't think you understand what a 69 is ;)

    anyway, it looks like in one reality the island is out of commission somehow,

    i can't really think what would put it at the bottom of the ocean unless someone was spinning the wheel and put it there.

    Is that the destiny of the crowd left on the island? when it looks like smokey is escaping the noble suicide drowning pact


  • Options
    #77
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,162 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    recylingbin wrote: »
    Zach (and Emma) were in LA X episode and, as far as I can recall, he didn't look like that.

    Which one? The island one or the airport one?

    EDIT - scratch it, see what you mean!

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Options
    #78
    recylingbin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    7
    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Which one? The island one or the airport one? And on-island people will look different from off-island people - example, Claire.

    on island. in the background of one of the temple scenes.


  • Options
    #79
    Soby
    Registered Users Posts: 5,977 ✭✭✭Soby


    8
    lol'ed when lapidus said "This is one crazy ass show" or something like that ..brilliant eppisode :D


  • Options
    #80
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,812 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    8
    Sad Professor wrote: »
    People are still deciphering them and probably will be for a while, but here's the best list of the numbers/names on the wall I could find.

    119 - Almeida - ?
    So that's where he's been...

    tony1.jpg


  • Options
    #81
    Hyzepher
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    For me the whole numbers reveal was a bit of a cop out. Are we to believe that Jacob wrote all the names/numbers up on a cave, brought those people to the island to see if they were worthy of replacing him? Over how many years?

    Don't forget that the beacon was broadcasting the numbers years ago before Rousseau changed it. I would believe it more if those numbers were the only ones Jacob used but it doesn't make sense that these 6 numbers were more important than the others - if so then why bother with the other ones.

    I think the 23 - Sheppard is not Jack but Christian. Initially I was surprised that the names were represented by surnames only. Each time Jacobs list was referenced the whole name was used. This surname only thing looks like a big clue. If it is Christian then it would mean that both Jack and Kate are not candidates.

    In fact I think I remember an episode were Jack was told that we wasn't on the initial list - must check that.

    I think the biggest reveal is the fact that neither Jacob or fake Locke are the guys in charge. There are rules and these rules were set down by someone else. If the boy was jacob then I don't think fake Locke would be so willinging to throw the white stone into the sea as a joke.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    Necronomicon
    Registered Users Posts: 11,589 ✭✭✭✭Necronomicon


    8
    Terrific episode.

    It was very different seeing so much of 'Flocke' and I think it pointed to something that has been debated here in the past: his connection to Christian Shepherd. It may not have explicitly answered the question, but I felt after watching it that there isn't actually a connection.

    Firstly, he was so taken aback by the appearance of the kid, which undermines the theory that he was in fact responsible for all the apiritions on the island. Secondly, in his conversation with Sawyer in the cave, he sounded like somewhat of a skeptic - "It's just an island" (paraphrased, that was the gist though). This doesn't sound like the Christian that told Locke that he 'had' to get off the island. Though of course, that may have been part of some end-game so who knows. EDIT: Can't believe I forgot about this when posting first, but the comment from Ilana that he is 'stuck' in the form of Locke should give us confirmation sooner rather than later.

    It was also interesting to hear him say he wanted off the island - a lot of people (myself included) thought that when he referred to 'home' in last week's episode, he meant the temple.

    I liked the few bits of humour (major LOL at Ben's eulogy and Lapidus' comment, and the 'in-joke' in the cave). My one reservation about the episode is the 'flash-sideways' - like a few others I'm still not sold on them. I'm open to the idea, but IMO this week's one felt very contrived with the appearances of Hurley, Rose and Ben.

    Still, fantastic episode.


  • Options
    #83
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,812 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    8
    Necronomicon wrote: »
    My one reservation about the episode is the 'flash-sideways' - like a few others I'm still not sold on them. I'm open to the idea, but IMO this week's one felt very contrived with the appearances of Hurley, Rose and Ben.
    Yeah, I have a few problems with the flash-sideways. Like I said last week, some of the appearances just don't appear to serve a purpose other than "well.. imagine that!"

    Hurley was somewhat to be expected.. but Rose and Ben just felt out-of-place.

    But as I said earlier in the thread.. as long as they form a consistent timeline and are not just flash-in-the-pain appearances, I don't mind!


  • Options
    #84
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,340 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    basquille wrote: »
    Yeah, I have a few problems with the flash-sideways. Like I said last week, some of the appearances just don't appear to serve a purpose other than "well.. imagine that!"

    Hurley was somewhat to be expected.. but Rose and Ben just felt out-of-place.

    But as I said earlier in the thread.. as long as they form a consistent timeline and are not just flash-in-the-pain appearances, I don't mind!

    It wasn't just Rose, Ben and Hurley. The woman who was asking Locke what animal he'd be or whatever was
    the fortune teller that Hurley's father brought him to.


  • Options
    #85
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    9
    Hyzepher wrote: »
    For me the whole numbers reveal was a bit of a cop out. Are we to believe that Jacob wrote all the names/numbers up on a cave, brought those people to the island to see if they were worthy of replacing him? Over how many years?
    I don't see a problem with this. Jacob met many of the Losties when they were still children. He is obviously somewhat all knowing and had knowledge of the future. The implication, however, is that he was manipulating them.
    Don't forget that the beacon was broadcasting the numbers years ago before Rousseau changed it.
    We don't actually know this. Leonard and his navy buddy heard the numbers around the same time that Rousseau did - 1988 - and she changed them very shortly after arriving. I'm assuming they weren't broadcasting during 70s. They may have only been transmitting for a very short time.
    I would believe it more if those numbers were the only ones Jacob used but it doesn't make sense that these 6 numbers were more important than the others - if so then why bother with the other ones.
    Yeah but there's obviously more to be revealed about this.
    I think the 23 - Sheppard is not Jack but Christian. Initially I was surprised that the names were represented by surnames only. Each time Jacobs list was referenced the whole name was used. This surname only thing looks like a big clue. If it is Christian then it would mean that both Jack and Kate are not candidates.
    Jack was in seat 23 on the plane though. But yeah the use of last names does make it ambiguous. It's also possible that some of the names refer to the Losties children - Ji-Yeon Kwon for example.
    In fact I think I remember an episode were Jack was told that we wasn't on the initial list - must check that.
    Pickett said in season 3. Patchy also said Sayid and Locke weren't on the list. There's been quite a few lists however. There's nothing to say the list we saw in this episode was the same one the Others were referring to. They may not even have known about the cave.


  • Options
    #86
    Hyzepher
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    We don't actually know this. Leonard and his navy buddy heard the numbers around the same time that Rousseau did - 1988 - and she changed them very shortly after arriving. I'm assuming they weren't broadcasting during 70s. They may have only been transmitting for a very short time.

    The point here is that the cave show loads of numbers against possible candidates. Some of which were apparently "tested" over the last few years. Why then broadcast those 6 specific numbers over 20 years ago.


  • Options
    #87
    Rabidlamb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Rabidlamb


    8
    Solid 9/10 for me, big improvement on last week.

    When it begun with Richard in tow I thought yes!!, finally the backstory & then he got away, bugger.

    Al Bundy's wife was believable as they loving fiancee but this "what could have been" alternate future doesn't serve much of a purpose in my eyes.
    Sawyer on the bottle was funny & I'm happy to see him looking for answers.
    I wonder if that's the last we'll hear of the numbers or do they have a deeper explanation.


  • Options
    #88
    nitrogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭nitrogen


    The sooner one comes to the conclusion that this television series is an amalgamation of many writers building on a previous script, adding an extra level with no blueprint in sight, then you can spare yourself a lot of time trying to decipher a code that doesn't exist.

    Edit: I'm still a huge fan, although not of the religious fanboy type who can't criticize things they like. And also, I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm so skeptical.


  • Options
    #89
    umpsfar
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭umpsfar


    9
    @nitrogen
    Yup .
    but its good for the imagination.

    On the sheppard surname, it could about lineage..
    Clare is a direct descendant of christian, therfore her son, b-tard as he is could also assume the sheppard name, (but that confuses clares surname on the wall )
    all the other people who's names have number linked to them , (only child of their family?) last of the lineage?

    whos to say its not flocks cave? was my initial thought(+ no one built him a big statue to hide under),
    i liked the way the scales where tipped towards black & i thought it was a huge significance that he stroked off james name.
    + i was expecting that the final LOST title would still come up in white no black.


  • Options
    #90
    Hyzepher
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    umpsfar wrote: »
    i liked the way the scales where tipped towards black & i thought it was a huge significance that he stroked off james name.

    It was Locke's name that he crossed off.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    umpsfar
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭umpsfar


    9
    Hyzepher wrote: »
    It was Locke's name that he crossed off.
    ops.(now THAT makes more sense)
    Played this straight after lost last night to keep the creepy feeling i got going. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFeftM8kGCo&feature=related


Advertisement