Welsh digital switch over-Irish reception questions answered

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 5:16pm

mct1 wrote: »

Agreed - that was the second article I mentioned. This was the first from 12th August http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/farewell-to-free-tv-from-uk-1857967.html

As you said, the first article had obviously prompted a few indignant email corrections. We all make mistakes, I know, and fair play to the People for getting it right second time. Let's just hope no one makes money out of folk who don't know what to believe.

Word of mouth and 'seeing is believing' are very important counters to 'factoids' dispensed by parties with vested interests. Tell neighbours and friends: those who are not able to go the Freeview route can go the Freesat route.

irishtoffee · 22-09-2009 7:01pm

Hi marclt and mrdtv once again thanks so much for your help,i decided to start over at 6.30 this morning and and retuned all stations and everything worked apart from bbc1,bbc2 and ch5 and both signals were at %80 and %60.When i got home from work bbcs were on but ch5 still nothing? All the other ch5s were working? Yes mrdtv on my aerial before the switch off ch5 was grand.I am getting the odd station freezing and to be honest that is wrecking my head so i think i will go for an extra sat box and hook it up to my sat dish.Any ideas where to get a freesat box?

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 7:08pm

irishtoffee wrote: »

Hi marclt and mrdtv once again thanks so much for your help,i decided to start over at 6.30 this morning and and retuned all stations and everything worked apart from bbc1,bbc2 and ch5 and both signals were at %80 and %60.When i got home from work bbcs were on but ch5 still nothing? All the other ch5s were working? Yes mrdtv on my aerial before the switch off ch5 was grand.I am getting the odd station freezing and to be honest that is wrecking my head so i think i will go for an extra sat box and hook it up to my sat dish.Any ideas where to get a freesat box?

Sounds like an aerial issue for you. You need to work out the cost of Freesat installed vs new aerial: Freesat is widely available on the web and can be easily installed in Ireland. Do the neighbours have Preseli?

irishtoffee · 22-09-2009 7:34pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Sounds like an aerial issue for you. You need to work out the cost of Freesat installed vs new aerial: Freesat is widely available on the web and can be easily installed in Ireland. Do the neighbours have Preseli?

I have a quad lnb on my dish so it should be handy enough to attach the cable to the dish and bring it to my room and connect it up.Neighbours have chorus and sky mate.I think i forgot to mention i have sky in sitting room and the reason i went for a freeview box was to avoid running more cables around the place haha.

atellyer · 22-09-2009 8:04pm

bothyhead wrote: »

So it's interference from other transmitters ... I'll Google tropospheric lift conditions for more info. Thanks again.

Last night I was picking up BBCs etc. from Bristol here in Howth and got lots of other lovely digital channels as well. All gone today though.

Antenna · 23-09-2009 8:44am

mrdtv wrote: »

b) You can actually diplex DVB-T COFDM signals together because they have different properties from analogue signals.

I was talking about the situation of both Presely and Mt Leinster using the same channel 45. How can a DTT receiver possibly decode the weaker of two DTT transmitters on the same channel? And in wexford which of the two is dominant or not (with combined aerials) would depend on the weather in some areas due to the long distance of one of the transmitters

mrdtv wrote: »

Again I have seen two high power UK DTT stations working perfectly off one aerial and the angular separation between the transmitters was 272 degrees.

yes but you didn't have a co-channel issue there, and the situation of one of the signals fluctuating greatly with weather.

mrdtv wrote: »

if you weren't affected by Cairn Hill in the analogue Preseli days no problem, but if you were that could be problematic.

in the analogue days the two transmitters (Mt Leinster and Presely) were in different aerial groups. The correct Group A and B diplexer for the aerials would attenuate the A aerial picking up interference for wanted signals from the B aerial (and vice versa) . But now DTT from Mt Leinster is in the same aerial group as Presely, and a co- channel issue too!

Another possible source of interference to people in some more inland areas of Co. Wexford is the Clonmel transmitter - which relatively recently had a channel change and is now co-channel with Presely with RTE2 on Chs 43 and TG4 on 50 and is the same polarisation too.

Ger Roe · 23-09-2009 9:46am

oldbat wrote: »

This reception report by Ger Roe is well intentioned but totally misleading.

At this point you must have realized that a fire guard is the wrong aerial for Arfon analogue or digital. Is the mast head amp a crappy red thing with exposed PCB inside which will pick up any interference from miles around instead of a proper sealed metal box with F connectors costing only a bit more? Did the installer have a huge Stetson hat and cowboy boots? Did he demand to be paid in US dollars? Did he arrive in with all his fire guards chucked in waggon pulled by a knackered horse? Do you suspect he may have expected you to call back and pay more money for the aerial he should have put in in the first place but didn't because he likes to visit several times to work an eventual miracle which would cost 2-3 times what it should have cost? .

I haven't checked this thread in a while, but must say that I find Oldbat's post a bit harsh.

As Fat Tony has pointed out, for better or worse, the grid antenna is the prevelant setup in my particlar area. Unfortunately, since the antenna was on the roof when I bought the house, I can not answer the questions regarding the dress code of the installer, the currency he was paid in or his mode of transport.

As an experiment, I decided to have a go with the setup that most people in my locality already have available. That setup has obviously provided analogue UK reception for many years and if a simple pan would work, then I expect most people might give it a go. If not, and a more elaborate installation is required, then personally I would stick with and recommend FTA/Freesat satellite.

I never intended to mislead anyone - I stated what I was using and the results obtained. So far, I can't see posts from anyone pulling in reliable DTT from Preselli around this north east area of Wicklow, but perhaps Fat Tony might have more luck when he has a chance to try with his beam.

For my own interest, I still intend to try the grid again when Arfon DTT is active, just to see what happens. As UK DTT reception in this area is still in the experimental stages, I won't be rushing out to buy any additional equipment just yet.

I suspect that if a new antenna install is required, then 'non Sky' satellite may be the generally preferred option - with my grid equiped neighbours anyway.

Regards,

Ger Roe.

fat-tony · 23-09-2009 5:11pm

Ger,

I had no success with Preseli during the high-pressure conditions, due I think, to co-channel interference from th 100kw transmitter in NE England. That reception has long since gone, but I haven't been able to get up on the roof since, but may have an opportunity over the weekend. Will report, but I think that Preseli is going to be a non-runner here. Maybe Llanddona, when it goes full power...maybe:(

Ger Roe · 24-09-2009 11:03am

Tony,

Just to further complicate the issue, I acquired a TV with built-in mpeg 2 tuner this week and last night I connected it to the aforementioned grid pointing at Preselli. Lo and behold it scanned and loaded up over 70 channels. I was watching the BBC and ITV suite and other stations such as Five, Five US, Fiver, 4Music Sky 3, TMF. There were others, but I really only paid attention to those that were additional to my current FTA satellite selection.

The reception was very strong initially, but faded later to breakup for some stations, although BBC services remained strong and watchable all night.

This performance was more reliable than the two set top box's that I had tried previously, but I am not sure if it was better performance from the in-built tuner, or purely weather related.

I will continue to take a look over the next few days and see what happens.
Maybe it was only a freak, but I suppose monitoring over time will indicate if it's worth doing anything more to make it reliable.

mrdtv · 24-09-2009 2:01pm

Ger Roe wrote: »

Tony,

Just to further complicate the issue, I acquired a TV with built-in mpeg 2 tuner this week and last night I connected it to the aforementioned grid pointing at Preselli. Lo and behold it scanned and loaded up over 70 channels. I was watching the BBC and ITV suite and other stations such as Five, Five US, Fiver, 4Music Sky 3, TMF. There were others, but I really only paid attention to those that were additional to my current FTA satellite selection.

The reception was very strong initially, but faded later to breakup for some stations, although BBC services remained strong and watchable all night.

This performance was more reliable than the two set top box's that I had tried previously, but I am not sure if it was better performance from the in-built tuner, or purely weather related.

I will continue to take a look over the next few days and see what happens.
Maybe it was only a freak, but I suppose monitoring over time will indicate if it's worth doing anything more to make it reliable.

You don't say where you are: previously did you get Preseli or Arfon analogue very well? I would skip the grid and get a modern high gain Yagi or log: further down the coast Preseli seems to be doing very well. If you already have FTA satellite I would sit tight , observe what's going on, find out what the neighbours are doing (eg try the box there!), and wait till Arfon comes on. Then you can make an informed choice and decide what to invest in.

fat-tony · 24-09-2009 7:06pm

mrdtv wrote: »

You don't say where you are: previously did you get Preseli or Arfon analogue very well? I would skip the grid and get a modern high gain Yagi or log: further down the coast Preseli seems to be doing very well. If you already have FTA satellite I would sit tight , observe what's going on, find out what the neighbours are doing (eg try the box there!), and wait till Arfon comes on. Then you can make an informed choice and decide what to invest in.

I believe Ger is in the Kilpeddar area. Around there and Newtown, Greystones and Kilcoole, the analogue transmitter of choice was Arfon.
Arfon's no good to me - I already have Freesat. I'm waiting to see if Llanddona lights up at DSO - maybe

mrdtv · 25-09-2009 8:21am

fat-tony wrote: »

I believe Ger is in the Kilpeddar area. Around there and Newtown, Greystones and Kilcoole, the analogue transmitter of choice was Arfon.
Arfon's no good to me - I already have Freesat. I'm waiting to see if Llanddona lights up at DSO - maybe

Yes, that's why I think Preseli would probably be too far in that location.

Dates for the diary: 21 October(Phase 1) and 18 November (Phase 2) which are the switchover dates for Llandona AND Arfon. ( Arfon is part of the Llandona group.). This will also be very interesting. After 18th November its DTT only from those stations. Arfon is only a 3PSB DTT service whereas LLandona has the full Freeview service. Both will carry HD probably next year.

bothyhead · 26-09-2009 7:16pm

Has the signal quality deteriorated for anyone else this evening? I've been getting 100% the past few days and it's now hovering at 50% or below.

Verso · 26-09-2009 9:30pm

Has the signal quality deteriorated for anyone else this evening? I've been getting 100% the past few days and it's now hovering at 50% or below.

Yes, me too, all day (North Wexford).

fat-tony · 27-09-2009 4:49pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Yes, that's why I think Preseli would probably be too far in that location.

Dates for the diary: 21 October(Phase 1) and 18 November (Phase 2) which are the switchover dates for Llandona AND Arfon. ( Arfon is part of the Llandona group.). This will also be very interesting. After 18th November its DTT only from those stations. Arfon is only a 3PSB DTT service whereas LLandona has the full Freeview service. Both will carry HD probably next year.

Tried Preseli again today. Nothing found on any of the muxes. Moved the aerial towards Llanddona and peaked it for the best signal on CH60 (ITV analogue) - pretty lousy reception. Subsequently ran a scan on the digital muxes and picked up the EPG for Mux C on CH64. SS and SQ too low for picture reception. I'm leaving it for the next couple of months until the signal levels are increased.

mrdtv · 28-09-2009 9:16am

fat-tony wrote: »

Tried Preseli again today. Nothing found on any of the muxes. Moved the aerial towards Llanddona and peaked it for the best signal on CH60 (ITV analogue) - pretty lousy reception. Subsequently ran a scan on the digital muxes and picked up the EPG for Mux C on CH64. SS and SQ too low for picture reception. I'm leaving it for the next couple of months until the signal levels are increased.

You are probably too far from Preseli for reliable reception. Your existing aerial system is not for those kind of distances. IIRC Llandona has never been very good for coverage in Ireland or indeed Wales ( a few years ago Classic FM rejected the use of Llandona for West Wales coverage in favour of Arfon because of its much higher AGL and far superior coverage.) It won't be long now before Arfon and Llandona start converting which will be very interesting indeed, although Blaen-Plwyf doesn't convert till February/March.

A reminder for Preseli DTT viewers: you must retune on Wednesday after 1300 to retain all services because of the reorganisation to make room for DVB-T2 HD.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/40552/National_re-tune_briefing.pdf

Ger Roe · 29-09-2009 5:14pm

mrdtv wrote: »

You don't say where you are: previously did you get Preseli or Arfon analogue very well? I would skip the grid and get a modern high gain Yagi or log: further down the coast Preseli seems to be doing very well. If you already have FTA satellite I would sit tight , observe what's going on, find out what the neighbours are doing (eg try the box there!), and wait till Arfon comes on. Then you can make an informed choice and decide what to invest in.

Hi MrDTV -

I am in Kilpedder, with a clear rooftop view to the sea and using a grid with a masthead amp (previous install, originally used for analogue from Arfon - now changed polarity and turned towards Preseli).

I was still watching last night. Strong un-broken reception of the BBC's and generally reliable on Five, Virgin + 1 etc (some breakup at times).

I should be able to get my hands on a SLX 48 element antenna over the weekend. If it's available I will see about trying it out.

mrdtv · 30-09-2009 11:13am

Ger Roe wrote: »

Hi MrDTV -

I am in Kilpedder, with a clear rooftop view to the sea and using a grid with a masthead amp (previous install, originally used for analogue from Arfon - now changed polarity and turned towards Preseli).

I was still watching last night. Strong un-broken reception of the BBC's and generally reliable on Five, Virgin + 1 etc (some breakup at times).

I should be able to get my hands on a SLX 48 element antenna over the weekend. If it's available I will see about trying it out.

Very interesting. Note that Preseli Arqiva A and SDN muxes went up in power this morning to 10kW and you have to retune today as its Freeview UK retuning day. You are about 120 miles from Preseli, 70 from Llandona and 65 from Arfon. Three weeks today the conversion of Arfon and Llandona to high power DTT transmissions begins. I recommend a wideband aerial because of the different aerial groups in use and the later possibility of Blaen-Plwyf. I think Arfon may be the best bet in your locality although its Freeview-lite unlike Preseli, Llandona or Blaen-Plwyf. Keep the posts coming...

prioryc · 30-09-2009 12:25pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Very interesting. Note that Preseli Arqiva A and SDN muxes went up in power this morning to 10kW and you have to retune today as its Freeview UK retuning day. You are about 120 miles from Preseli, 70 from Llandona and 65 from Arfon. Three weeks today the conversion of Arfon and Llandona to high power DTT transmissions begins. I recommend a wideband aerial because of the different aerial groups in use and the later possibility of Blaen-Plwyf. I think Arfon may be the best bet in your locality although its Freeview-lite unlike Preseli, Llandona or Blaen-Plwyf. Keep the posts coming...

just done my first retune & Quest ( showing t.j hooker)is indeed live & working today also better signal off arqb(sky3,dave,sky news) all channels working & very good to excellent signal on all stations

mrdtv · 30-09-2009 1:45pm

prioryc wrote: »

just done my first retune & Quest ( showing t.j hooker)is indeed live & working today also better signal off arqb(sky3,dave,sky news) all channels working & very good to excellent signal on all stations

Yes, but one of the Preseli muxes isn't being upped in power till 24 March 2010 in order not to interfere with analogue Tv in the Bristol Channel area. What kind of aerial are you using and do your neighbours know its available? I think there'll be no more retuning on Preseli till Freeview HD is rolled out: an announcement is expected shortly, it''ll be live before the World Cup.

Once again SE Ireland will participate in TV history: first to receive TV well before RTE launched in 1961, and first to get operational terrestrial HDTV. Unlike Northern Ireland which has to wait till 2012/3!

30-09-2009 3:07pm

Just to add,I'm away at the moment and won't be back untill next week so I can't comment on the presely changes at home.
I do know that whenever presely was very strong the sky mux obliterated mt leinster on 45 so it would not surprise me that increasing the power by a factor of five makes reception of it the norm

I think co channelling presely and mt leinster was a huge mistake on the part of the planners.

Incidently are there any on screen announcements on arfon yet?

The slightest increase in westward mobility of blaenplwyf is going to make it a very real probability in East wicklow and a better option than arfon.
I get fair to bad analogue from it on a b group in arklow even as it is.

mrdtv · 30-09-2009 5:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to add,I'm away at the moment and won't be back untill next week so I can't comment on the presely changes at home.
I do know that whenever presely was very strong the sky mux obliterated mt leinster on 45 so it would not surprise me that increasing the power by a factor of five makes reception of it the norm

I think co channelling presely and mt leinster was a huge mistake on the part of the planners.

Incidently are there any on screen announcements on arfon yet?

The slightest increase in westward mobility of blaenplwyf is going to make it a very real probability in East wicklow and a better option than arfon.
I get fair to bad analogue from it on a b group in arklow even as it is.

Agree re cochannelling: it may be academic if only a limited Irish DTT service takes off. Arfon will be switched over commencing three weeks today with the launch of BBC PSB-1 at 2kw and the station has a HAAT of 600m or thereabouts. Blaen-Plwyf won't convert till 24 March 2010 but the fact that its digital power is twice what you would expect for an analogue conversion is very interesting and, of course, it has Group A propagation characteristics.

macmansion · 03-10-2009 9:32pm

Hello again.

Just getting back to say I took the advice to get a cheap freeview box and hooking it up to work alongside existing Sky and Irish analogue and it worked out great here in Wexford. Lots of channels and excellent reception.

Thanks again to mrdtv, marclt & others for demystifying the whole situation.

Just as a side issue - in the past couple of months the analogue reception for RTE (especially RTE1) has gotten quite poor, while TV3 and TG4 have remained good as always. Retuning the TVs doesn't seem to help. I guess this has nothing to do with the ditigal switchover, but curious am I alone in this.

03-10-2009 10:21pm

Hi,
Your RTE reception problems have nothing to do with the presely uk digital switch over.
You might want to check your vhf aerial.

It's great to hear ,that freeview is working well with you-spread the word! and direct anyone with questions to this thread if they want.

Verso · 04-10-2009 3:03pm

Hi all,

Just a further comment on Freeview in North Wexford.

I upgraded from my elderly Group B aerial and cable to a Philex Wideband 48 element aerial with a Labgear 9 - 26db variable gain masthead amplifier and in general am very pleased with the reception from Preseli.

My TV is an LG set with an MPEG 2 tuner. I also purchased a cheap Alba Freeview STB for use with another TV.

The signal strength to date from both receivers varies normally between 68% and 75% for BBC and 61% and 71% for ITV. Film 4 sometimes fades out and to date I have not received Sky 3.

I may well be able to get more improved reception by adjusting the direction of the aerial but in all the general reception and stations is very good.

As neither of my receivers indicate Quality I cannot advise on this.

prioryc · 04-10-2009 3:37pm

Verso wrote: »

Hi all,

Just a further comment on Freeview in North Wexford.

I upgraded from my elderly Group B aerial and cable to a Philex Wideband 48 element aerial with a Labgear 9 - 26db variable gain masthead amplifier and in general am very pleased with the reception from Preseli.

My TV is an LG set with an MPEG 2 tuner. I also purchased a cheap Alba Freeview STB for use with another TV.

The signal strength to date from both receivers varies normally between 68% and 75% for BBC and 61% and 71% for ITV. Film 4 sometimes fades out and to date I have not received Sky 3.

I may well be able to get more improved reception by adjusting the direction of the aerial but in all the general reception and stations is very good.

As neither of my receivers indicate Quality I cannot advise on this.

much the same result as i get currently ...sky3 better but still not watchable in most conditions

bothyhead · 04-10-2009 6:45pm

macmansion wrote: »

Hello again.
Just as a side issue - in the past couple of months the analogue reception for RTE (especially RTE1) has gotten quite poor, while TV3 and TG4 have remained good as always. Retuning the TVs doesn't seem to help. I guess this has nothing to do with the ditigal switchover, but curious am I alone in this.

Yes, I am experiencing the exact same thing.

RTE1 = Poorish (mainly snowy reception, but still watchable)
RTE2 = Not as bad as RTE1, but still poor (I sometimes see Venetian blinds interference)
TV3 and TV4 = crystal clear, as good as UK DTT

bothyhead · 04-10-2009 6:49pm

Verso wrote: »

Hi all,

The signal strength to date from both receivers varies normally between 68% and 75% for BBC and 61% and 71% for ITV. Film 4 sometimes fades out and to date I have not received Sky 3.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. The MUX transmitting Film 4 is still on low power until March 2010, where upon it will be increase to 10KW.

Sky 3 is being broadcast on CH 45. Channel 45 is also being broadcast from Mount Leinster (RTE Digital trials). These two signals are interfering with one another, which results in Sky3 not being viewable. The solution is to disconnect your TV3/TG4 aerial! - yeah right

Satdog · 04-10-2009 10:58pm

In response to RTE reception I live just south of Wexford town and I have to say my RTE1 and RTE2 have vastly improved since Welsh analogue was switched off!!

prioryc · 05-10-2009 9:59am

bothyhead wrote: »

Yes, I am experiencing the exact same thing.

RTE1 = Poorish (mainly snowy reception, but still watchable)
RTE2 = Not as bad as RTE1, but still poor (I sometimes see Venetian blinds interference)
TV3 and TV4 = crystal clear, as good as UK DTT

Exactly the same reception here as yourself no change from uk switch off
RTE1,2=ghosting
TV3/TG4:Perfect

05-10-2009 10:58am

Satdog wrote: »

In response to RTE reception I live just south of Wexford town and I have to say my RTE1 and RTE2 have vastly improved since Welsh analogue was switched off!!

Thats probably because welsh analogue strength was overloading your distribution amp.

Satdog · 05-10-2009 11:35am

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats probably because welsh analogue strength was overloading your distribution amp.

Thanks for that. Only amp connected is a masthead. Current set up is a VHF aerial to Mount Leinster for RTE 1&2 and a standard contract UHF aerial to Preseli - this I presume is picking up my TG4 and TV3 also from Mount Leinster. I'm also picking up the DTT BBC MUX from Preseli. I'll have to upgrade cable and get a new aerial for the rest of the Welsh DTT.

05-10-2009 12:05pm

If you have the BBC A mux -you should be also getting the itv mux at least if not the others aswell.
Do a complete factory reset and then set up the tv again doing an digital tune and see what happens.

Satdog · 05-10-2009 12:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you have the BBC A mux -you should be also getting the itv mux at least if not the others aswell.
Do a complete factory reset and then set up the tv again doing an digital tune and see what happens.

BBCs have been coming in since the switchover whereas ITVs have been unreliable - stable some days but also a lot of break-up hence I want to up grade cable first and then maybe a new aerial.

Verso · 05-10-2009 12:25pm

Thanks prioryc and bothyhead for your comments.

From what you say my aerial would appear not to be too much out.

I can live with not receiving Sky 3 and will keep an eye on the BBC and ITV reception which to date is quite good.

06-10-2009 6:13pm

Installed another digital tv on presely for someone (who asked me as they were clueless) in the north wexford area today with 3 of the neighbours looking on in amazement-all want one now.

All channels working very well as usual today in the heavy rain at this new location with strength at 70% and signal quality at 100% and thats with a single chimney height rooftop group B thats been there about 15 years or so.

mrdtv · 06-10-2009 7:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Installed another digital tv on presely for someone (who asked me as they were clueless) in the north wexford area today with 3 of the neighbours looking on in amazement-all want one now.

All channels working very well as usual today in the heavy rain at this new location with strength at 70% and signal quality at 100% and thats with a single chimney height rooftop group B thats been there about 15 years or so.

You betcha they will:, word of mouth is key.

Just out: the installers bible for the coming Lllandona/Arfon switchover in two weeks time. It gives the changes in powers, analogue closures etc.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/40652/Installer_Newsletter_Llanddona__1_month_out_FINAL.pdf

bothyhead · 06-10-2009 9:22pm

bothyhead wrote: »

RTE1 = Poorish (mainly snowy reception, but still watchable)

Is this really crap for anyone else tonight? (tue). It's nearly as bad as UK analogue was, on a very poor night, in the bad old days

Satdog · 07-10-2009 9:06am

Deleted User wrote: »

Installed another digital tv on presely for someone (who asked me as they were clueless) in the north wexford area today with 3 of the neighbours looking on in amazement-all want one now.

All channels working very well as usual today in the heavy rain at this new location with strength at 70% and signal quality at 100% and thats with a single chimney height rooftop group B thats been there about 15 years or so.

What kind of aerial is in use - hardly a standard contract job?

08-10-2009 7:47am

Its an old almost grid type aerial actually-you know the really thin ones.
In many parts of wexford presely just blasts in.

mrdtv · 08-10-2009 8:19am

Deleted User wrote: »

Its an old almost grid type aerial actually-you know the really thin ones.
In many parts of wexford presely just blasts in.

Impressive. Shows the theory is being realised in practice:

Arfon is coming very shortly in just under a fortnight and, just like Blaen-Plwyf it has higher digital ERP than it would normally be expected to have. Usually DVB-T stations are 7dB down on analogue ( or 1/5 analogue ERPS) to provide the same coverage, so Preseli analogue was 100kW and Preseli digital is 20kW. Ditto LLandona. Blaen-Plwyf analogue is 100kW and Blaen-Plwyf digital is 40kW (rather than the 'normal' 20kW).

Arfon analogue is 3.5kW and from the 21st Arfon digital will be 2kw (rather than the 'usual' 700W which would have been expected), so Arfon digital is just over 2dB down on analogue. This will be very interesting...

08-10-2009 12:46pm

Will Blaenplwf radiate westwards though,thats the question.
I doubt whoevers building that mast want it to cover Dublin to Wexford considering it is on the coast

It's in a perfect location to do so.
Aberystwyth is only about 70 or 80 miles due east of Arklow and Wicklow with a perfect sea track.

I was speaking to an old guy who used install VHF aerials over here for Blaenplwf in the 60's and early 70's-they were widespread with perfect reception.

Arfon will work thanks to the sturdier 8k tx but at 2kw,it's going to have problems in poor weather I'd say.
Not as many as the low power 2k presely signals had but it's not going to be as reliable as the new presely.
Blaen is the deal breaker I think to fill the gap north of Arklow up to Dublin.

Isn't arfon analogue 10kw btw??

mrdtv · 08-10-2009 1:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Will Blaenplwf radiate westwards though,thats the question.
I doubt whoevers building that mast want it to cover Dublin to Wexford considering it is on the coast It's in a perfect location to do so.
Aberystwyth is only about 70 or 80 miles due east of Arklow and Wicklow with a perfect sea track.

I was speaking to an old guy who used install VHF aerials over here for Blaenplwf in the 60's and early 70's-they were widespread with perfect reception.

Arfon will work thanks to the sturdier 8k tx but at 2kw,it's going to have problems in poor weather I'd say.
Not as many as the low power 2k presely signals had but it's not going to be as reliable as the new presely.
Blaen is the deal breaker I think to fill the gap north of Arklow up to Dublin.

Isn't arfon analogue 10kw btw??

No.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/transmitters/tv/tv_llandona.shtml

NB Arfon is a main station masquerading as a relay because it is practically on top of Snowdonia, see earlier posts in this thread. It is nearly 3000 ft above sea level!

This is why Arfon has such superior coverage: it should have been the main station for West Wales but Llanddona survived due to BBC/IBA enmities. I suspect Blaen will be an omni using the new types of antenna systems and remember it has to transmit NW and SW beams to complete its coverage, but we won't know till February 2010. In the meantime Llandona and Arfon can be calibrated in two weeks time when PSB-1 comes on (the BBC channels.)

For tuning reference:

Llandona: BBC PSB-1: Channel 57, 20kW

Arfon: BBC PSB-1: Channel 41+, 2kW

Antenna · 09-10-2009 8:08am

mrdtv wrote: »

I suspect Blaen will be an omni

this is just wishful thinking.

If anything it might become more 'shielded'?

The FM radios from there (BBC Radio 1 on 98.3 etc) used to radiate to the west much better in times past than they do nowadays. I can't see the reverse happening for TV?!

Antenna · 09-10-2009 8:15am

bothyhead wrote: »

Sky 3 is being broadcast on CH 45. Channel 45 is also being broadcast from Mount Leinster (RTE Digital trials). These two signals are interfering with one another, which results in Sky3 not being viewable.

Its surprising that the RTE MUX from Mount Leinster doesn't move down to Ch 39 (which is allocated), one would think they would take the more favourable channel for themselves?.
This does not clash with anything from Presely.
It would also come in stronger on legacy Group A aerials for Mt. Leinster analogues (Ch 39 is not much above Group A channels)

Analogue RTE 1 from the Clonmel transmitter used to be on 39 (which lead to problems when Mt Leinster tested DTT on Ch39 before) , but Clonmel since moved up a channel to 40, so that is no longer an issue.

Presely viewers could have a year or more worth of viewing of UK DTT on Ch 45 before Ch 45 is actually needed for Irish commercial DTT, if RTE MUX were to move down to 39!

mrdtv · 09-10-2009 9:45am

Antenna wrote: »

this is just wishful thinking.

If anything it might become more 'shielded'?

The FM radios from there (BBC Radio 1 on 98.3 etc) used to radiate to the west much better in times past than they do nowadays. I can't see the reverse happening for TV?!

There is bound to be leakage and in any case they have to provide NW and SW beams to link up with Llandona and Preseli coverage in Wales. The owner of the ukfree.tv web site has the HRP patterns following a BBC FOI disclosure but has not put them up yet due to ongoing health problems! We won't know till February but the new antenna system looks rather different.

mrdtv · 09-10-2009 9:49am

Antenna wrote: »

Its surprising that the RTE MUX from Mount Leinster doesn't move down to Ch 39 (which is allocated), one would think they would take the more favourable channel for themselves?.
This does not clash with anything from Presely.
It would also come in stronger on legacy Group A aerials for Mt. Leinster analogues (Ch 39 is not much above Group A channels)

Analogue RTE 1 from the Clonmel transmitter used to be on 39 (which lead to problems when Mt Leinster tested DTT on Ch39 before) , but Clonmel since moved up a channel to 40, so that is no longer an issue.

Presely viewers could have a year or more worth of viewing of UK DTT on Ch 45 before Ch 45 is actually needed for Irish commercial DTT, if RTE MUX were to move down to 39!

I tend to agree with you: it looks to me more like an attempted spoiler by Comreg and RTE. But its too late, they are buying the Freeview boxes as its working well and, in due course, they'll get the T2 boxes when prices fall.

Satdog · 09-10-2009 1:37pm

Satdog wrote: »

Thanks for that. Only amp connected is a masthead. Current set up is a VHF aerial to Mount Leinster for RTE 1&2 and a standard contract UHF aerial to Preseli - this I presume is picking up my TG4 and TV3 also from Mount Leinster. I'm also picking up the DTT BBC MUX from Preseli. I'll have to upgrade cable and get a new aerial for the rest of the Welsh DTT.

Re: text in bold, can anyone confirm?
I have no UHF aerial to Mt Leinster and I'm receiving perfect TG4 and goodish TV3 so I'm presuming my UHF aerial to Peresli is picking up these. The channel numbers are definitely for Mt Leinster. I hope to change my contract Peresli aerial for a wideband Triax Unix 52 in the next two weeks and want to avoid adding another aerial specifically for TG4 and TV3 as space on the pole is tight.

Thanks in advance

P.S.
Regarding the above I should add that I live just south Wexford town and Mt Leinster is to the NW and Preseli to E/SE.

mrdtv · 12-10-2009 9:22am

Llanddona/Arfon switchover schedule

See:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/40652/Installer_Newsletter_Llanddona__1_month_out_FINAL.pdf

It gives the complete switchover schedule for the new high power Freeview transmitters.

12-10-2009 2:04pm

Satdog wrote: »

Re: text in bold, can anyone confirm?
I have no UHF aerial to Mt Leinster and I'm receiving perfect TG4 and goodish TV3 so I'm presuming my UHF aerial to Peresli is picking up these. The channel numbers are definitely for Mt Leinster. I hope to change my contract Peresli aerial for a wideband Triax Unix 52 in the next two weeks and want to avoid adding another aerial specifically for TG4 and TV3 as space on the pole is tight.

Thanks in advance

P.S.
Regarding the above I should add that I live just south Wexford town and Mt Leinster is to the NW and Preseli to E/SE.

You can sometimes pick up signals without an aerial at all.
A stripped piece of co ax can do it.
Yes like most people,a reasonable MT Leinster TV3 and TG4 can come in with an aerial pointed to presely.
It sometimes might have shadows and sometimes it might be perfect.
The wideband for presely isn't going to improve your mt leinster reception by the way...it might make presely slightly worse.
Get a proper Group B with loads of elements.
You'll still have the type of TG4/TV3 reception you have now and maybe better if it has more elements than your existing aerial and at the same time you will get better presely by virtue of having the right group B for that.

Welsh digital switch over-Irish reception questions answered

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