Welsh digital switch over-Irish reception questions answered

lucernarian · 19-09-2009 11:20pm

That seems good. I think the aerial change and better placing of the amp, along with using copper-screened cable will ensure breakups will be rare.

mrdtv · 20-09-2009 10:26am

Sazziey wrote: »

Hi
Yes - the box is factory reconditioned - is this why I have a problem? Any recommendations as to which box to get now then? Am getting very confused with it all.......:(

Recon boxes could be a con. For the box to work you:

a) Need to have a modern one with the UK digital tick.

b) Make sure it does 2k/8k DVB-T

c) If you were receiving good Preseli analogue you will be in business

d) Later if it all works well you can splash out on a Freeview HD box (DVB-T2) which will be backwards compatible with Irish DTT.

A good one is the Philips DTR 220, richersounds and the rest sell them.

mrdtv · 20-09-2009 10:28am

Antenna wrote: »

It might be pushing it to say its available in the 'South East' rather than Co. Wexford. Stable reception is only a possibility for an insignificant number of people in Co. Waterford, and there are no reports of UK DTT reception in the other counties of the South East - Kilkenny, Carlow, South Tipperary

It will only be available in areas where good Preseli analogue was available, but no doubt others will try who had 'iffy' Welsh reception.

mrdtv · 20-09-2009 10:32am

Verso wrote: »

Hi all,

My system is located some 8 miles south of Courtown and I am using a 20 years old Yagi style aerial with WF65 cable connected through a 26dB amp in the loft (the aerial is outside on a 3 metre mast). With this temporary arrangement I have received 91 channels at a signal strength of 52/59%.

I want to improve on this by changing to a new 48 element wideband aerial with the amp placed on the mast.

Before doing so I would appreciate any advice or suggestions to improve the signal strength.

Thanks in anticipation of any replies.

Impressive. You are receiving all stations. A variable amp might be better and you could also consider a high gain log periodic which is far less heavy on the mast: its worth doing some research into this before buying. The internet has very interesting sites on this. The most important reading is the quality: if this in the 90s there will be no glitching.Let us know what happens.

elsie1b · 20-09-2009 11:18am

mrdtv wrote: »

Impressive. You are receiving all stations. A variable amp might be better and you could also consider a high gain log periodic which is far less heavy on the mast: its worth doing some research into this before buying. The internet has very interesting sites on this. The most important reading is the quality: if this in the 90s there will be no glitching.Let us know what happens.

Excuse me for asking , but is it possible to receive the channels on channel 45 that are drowned out by mount leinster ,here in Ballymurn, Co. Wexford.
All the other multiplexes are loud and clear at the moment ,at least until Irish dtt is up and fully running.

marclt · 20-09-2009 1:14pm

elsie1b wrote: »

Excuse me for asking , but is it possible to receive the channels on channel 45 that are drowned out by mount leinster ,here in Ballymurn, Co. Wexford.
All the other multiplexes are loud and clear at the moment ,at least until Irish dtt is up and fully running.

It is unlikely that you'll be able to block out these signals... given your proximity to Mt. Leinster. However, if you have a tv3 aerial connected you might be able to try that. Although you will more than likely lose a watchable tv3/tg4 service.

Let's hope that RTE/BCI et al get the message that they need to change their frequency plan, although the cynical side of me thinks it has been planned like this to encourage as many people to take out a sub to the pay per view service!

Verso · 20-09-2009 2:05pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Impressive. You are receiving all stations. A variable amp might be better and you could also consider a high gain log periodic which is far less heavy on the mast: its worth doing some research into this before buying. The internet has very interesting sites on this. The most important reading is the quality: if this in the 90s there will be no glitching.Let us know what happens.

To-be-confirmed and mrdtv thanks for your comments. With regard to signal quality unfortuneatly my TV only indicates strength. It does not have any 'Quality' indicator. I will consider the log periodic aerial but AFAIK this type of aerial has to be pointed very accurately. Also my amp is variable but with my present setup reducing the gain makes no difference in the higher scales.

mrdtv · 20-09-2009 3:41pm

Verso wrote: »

To-be-confirmed and mrdtv thanks for your comments. With regard to signal quality unfortuneatly my TV only indicates strength. It does not have any 'Quality' indicator. I will consider the log periodic aerial but AFAIK this type of aerial has to be pointed very accurately. Also my amp is variable but with my present setup reducing the gain makes no difference in the higher scales.

Most logs have a 60 degree acceptance angle! Alternatively your TV may give a BER readout (this is usually zero for a perfect signal.) Looking forward to hearing results from you.

mrdtv · 20-09-2009 3:43pm

elsie1b wrote: »

Excuse me for asking , but is it possible to receive the channels on channel 45 that are drowned out by mount leinster ,here in Ballymurn, Co. Wexford.
All the other multiplexes are loud and clear at the moment ,at least until Irish dtt is up and fully running.

Ch 45 is co channel. The three Preseli PSB muxes (BBC, ITV, C4 and the future HD service) will NOT be cochannel with any Mt Leinster services. After switchoff in Ireland RTE may change frequencies. So stay tuned.

prioryc · 20-09-2009 6:45pm

Verso wrote: »

Hi all,

My system is located some 8 miles south of Courtown and I am using a 20 years old Yagi style aerial with WF65 cable connected through a 26dB amp in the loft (the aerial is outside on a 3 metre mast). With this temporary arrangement I have received 91 channels at a signal strength of 52/59%.

I want to improve on this by changing to a new 48 element wideband aerial with the amp placed on the mast.

Before doing so I would appreciate any advice or suggestions to improve the signal strength.

Thanks in anticipation of any replies.

im getting a return of 99 channels in gorey with the old aerials too(quality 79%bbc/others40-60%) and was thinking of upgrading but as all the channels are not on full power like the bbc( see links to sites below)might be worth waiting for the others ...if u do go ahead please post your quality results

http://www.freeview.co.uk/freeview/Resolutions/About-Channels/Retuning/Freeview-national-retune-30-September-2009

http://www.ukfree.tv/starthere.php <<another good site lots of info here too

P.S ...spread the freeview word :pac:..s......k.....y

irishtoffee · 20-09-2009 7:12pm

prioryc wrote: »

im getting a return of 99 channels in gorey with the old aerials too(quality 79%bbc/others40-60%) and was thinking of upgrading but as all the channels are not on full power like the bbc( see links to sites below)might be worth waiting for the others ...if u do go ahead please post your quality results

http://www.freeview.co.uk/freeview/Resolutions/About-Channels/Retuning/Freeview-national-retune-30-September-2009

http://www.ukfree.tv/starthere.php <<another good site lots of info here too

P.S ...spread the freeview word :pac:..s......k.....y

May i ask what channels you are getting?

Verso · 20-09-2009 8:32pm

prioryc wrote: »

im getting a return of 99 channels in gorey with the old aerials too(quality 79%bbc/others40-60%) and was thinking of upgrading but as all the channels are not on full power like the bbc( see links to sites below)might be worth waiting for the others ...if u do go ahead please post your quality results

Thanks all for your comments and help.

prioryc - I am not there at 99 channels yet. My aerial not only is ancient but it is a shorter aerial than any of the others in the area so I think I will go ahead and upgrade. I will let you all know how I get on.

prioryc · 20-09-2009 10:40pm

irishtoffee wrote: »

May i ask what channels you are getting?

S4C,S4c2,five,five u.s.a,fiver,virgin1,qvc,bid tv&QUEST test card (due to start on 30th september),ESPN & top up tv channels
BBC Radio 1,2,3,4,5,rssx,live,6,7, BBC world service,1xtra,bbc4asian network
BBC tv 1,2,3,4, 301+302+303+305,Parliment cbbc,cbeebies, bbc radio wales Sky 3 ,Dave,sky sports news,sky news,talk sport,premier radio 4 Music,TMF,ITV4,virgin+1,ITV2,Dave Ja Vu,Film 4,Russia Today,
the hits,kerrang,kiss,magic,yesterday,teacherstv,smooth,heatradio,ITV1,3,4,itv2+1,E4,channel 4,c4+1,more4,televisionx,rabbit,gay rabbit,babestation,lotto tv,ideal world,home,CNN,community channel,big deal,smile tv,create & craft

thats nearly all the channels on my epg on Samsung Freeview tv/C.I slot(common interface/top up/espn/ card)

irishtoffee · 20-09-2009 11:00pm

prioryc wrote: »

S4C,S4c2,five,five u.s.a,fiver,virgin1,qvc,bid tv&QUEST test card (due to start on 30th september),ESPN & top up tv channels
BBC Radio 1,2,3,4,5,rssx,live,6,7, BBC world service,1xtra,bbc4asian network
BBC tv 1,2,3,4, 301+302+303+305,Parliment cbbc,cbeebies, bbc radio wales Sky 3 ,Dave,sky sports news,sky news,talk sport,premier radio 4 Music,TMF,ITV4,virgin+1,ITV2,Dave Ja Vu,Film 4,Russia Today,
the hits,kerrang,kiss,magic,yesterday,teacherstv,smooth,heatradio,ITV1,3,4,itv2+1,E4,channel 4,c4+1,more4,televisionx,rabbit,gay rabbit,babestation,lotto tv,ideal world,home,CNN,community channel,big deal,smile tv,create & craft

thats nearly all the channels on my epg on Samsung Freeview tv/C.I slot(common interface/top up/espn/ card)

Thannks mate my box is arriving tomorrow,espn and some of the others are subscription?

prioryc · 21-09-2009 12:07am

irishtoffee wrote: »

Thannks mate my box is arriving tomorrow,espn and some of the others are subscription?

yes ...top up tv is ppv see here
http://www.topuptv.com/

Satdog · 21-09-2009 11:05am

Satdog wrote: »

In case anyone is interested.

Hooked up Philips 32PFL5604 (MPEG2 & MPEG4) to existing aerials - VHF to Mount Leinster and 19 element contract UHF aerial to Preseli, Wales. Irish and UK digital received. Will look later to see exactly what's coming in from Walses (EPG, SD vs HD etc.). I live three miles south of Wexford town on a bit of a height with clear view out to sea.

Satdog

The above was originally posted on the thread "TVs with MPEG4 Decoders" but I think the proper place is here, especially now as I'm looking for some answers. I have satellite so I’m getting most of the channels anyway, I will however have to do something for the mother-in-law.
The Irish DTT are a dead duck, mostly sound - don't how they came in loud and clear originally on a VHF aerial. As regards UK DTT the only channels I'm picking up are BB1, BBC2, BBC3, BBC4, BBC News, BBC Parliament, Five, More 4, S4C, ITV1, ITV2, ITV3, ITV4, ITV4+1. The BBCs and Five are very stable while ITVs were fine but last night there was a lot of break-up. There are also a lot of radio stations but they don't really bother me. The quality is coming in at 100% but signal strength is poor – I don’t have a % only a status bar. When I do a channel test I get the following '6 50.18MHz'. There is no EPG either for any channels. I don’t have a masthead amp.
So what are my options before I go out and spend. Would a masthead amp solve the problem and/or will I have to upgrade the aerial? I also want to upgrade the cables. If I upgrade the aerial I can point old aerial to Mount Leinster for Irish DTT.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Satdog

mrdtv · 21-09-2009 11:35am

Satdog wrote: »

The above was originally posted on the thread "TVs with MPEG4 Decoders" but I think the proper place is here, especially now as I'm looking for some answers. I have satellite so I’m getting most of the channels anyway, I will however have to do something for the mother-in-law.
The Irish DTT are a dead duck, mostly sound - don't how they came in loud and clear originally on a VHF aerial. As regards UK DTT the only channels I'm picking up are BB1, BBC2, BBC3, BBC4, BBC News, BBC Parliament, Five, More 4, S4C, ITV1, ITV2, ITV3, ITV4, ITV4+1. The BBCs and Five are very stable while ITVs were fine but last night there was a lot of break-up. There are also a lot of radio stations but they don't really bother me. The quality is coming in at 100% but signal strength is poor – I don’t have a % only a status bar. When I do a channel test I get the following '6 50.18MHz'. There is no EPG either for any channels. I don’t have a masthead amp.
So what are my options before I go out and spend. Would a masthead amp solve the problem and/or will I have to upgrade the aerial? I also want to upgrade the cables. If I upgrade the aerial I can point old aerial to Mount Leinster for Irish DTT.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Satdog

Its clear your contract aerial sans masthead isn't good enough: you are receiving the three PSB muxes, but not the COM muxes. ( You won't get one of them because its cochannel with RTE DTT from Mount Leinster.) You need to improve your signal strength:

a) get a modern aerial like the Teles DAT 45 or the Triax Unix 52 or see what the neighbours are using. Consider using a masthead. The signal strength is low because you have a contract aerial: not bad but won't do the distance.

b) If you were originally getting RTE DTT on the TV then a second aerial at Mount Leinster will be handy, but this needs to be carefully integrated into the setup to avoid interfering with Presely.

c) Its surprising the Philips doesn't have an EPG: the modern ones do.

d) Change to modern low-loss satellite quality cables.

mrdtv · 21-09-2009 11:38am

mrdtv wrote: »

Its clear your contract aerial sans masthead isn't good enough: you are receiving the three PSB muxes, but not the COM muxes. ( You won't get one of them because its cochannel with RTE DTT from Mount Leinster.) You need to improve your signal strength:

a) get a modern aerial like the Teles DAT 45 or the Triax Unix 52 or see what the neighbours are using. Consider using a masthead. The signal strength is low because you have a contract aerial: not bad but won't do the distance.

b) If you were originally getting RTE DTT on the TV then a second aerial at Mount Leinster will be handy, but this needs to be carefully integrated into the setup to avoid interfering with Presely.

c) Its surprising the Philips doesn't have an EPG: the modern ones do.

d) Change to modern low-loss satellite quality cables.

I forgot: 650.18Mhz corresponds to UHF Channel 43 (with an + offset), which tells you that this is the BBC PSB Mux 1 transmitted from Preseli. Its identifying where the transmission is originating from and is as expected.

Satdog · 21-09-2009 11:53am

MRDTV,

Thanks for responding so promply, It may be a couple of weeks before I get around to getting this set up but I'll post when I do. The Philips TV supports EPG so I'm not sure why its not functioning - anything to do with the reception? Also I never checked teletext. Must do tonight. Furthermore how do you incorporate Irish and UK DTT?

Thanks again

Satdog

Satdog · 21-09-2009 12:09pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Its clear your contract aerial sans masthead isn't good enough: you are receiving the three PSB muxes, but not the COM muxes. ( You won't get one of them because its cochannel with RTE DTT from Mount Leinster.) You need to improve your signal strength:

a) get a modern aerial like the Teles DAT 45 or the Triax Unix 52 or see what the neighbours are using. Consider using a masthead. The signal strength is low because you have a contract aerial: not bad but won't do the distance.

b) If you were originally getting RTE DTT on the TV then a second aerial at Mount Leinster will be handy, but this needs to be carefully integrated into the setup to avoid interfering with Presely.

c) Its surprising the Philips doesn't have an EPG: the modern ones do.

d) Change to modern low-loss satellite quality cables.

MRDTV

I've done some surfing for the aerials mentioned, what Group do I need to go for?

Thanks

Satdog

mrdtv · 21-09-2009 12:14pm

Satdog wrote: »

MRDTV

I've done some surfing for the aerials mentioned, what Group do I need to go for?

Thanks

Satdog

Probably Group B or wideband. Mount Leinster is Group A and B, Preseli is B. You probably got RTE DTT when you had the Mount Leinster antenna plugged in (even though it was VHF!!), and not when you had the Preseli antenna plugged in. You'll soon become quite expert after Internet research. A good site is www.aerialsandtv.co.uk (may not be the right URL...)

Satdog · 21-09-2009 12:25pm

Satdog wrote: »

MRDTV,

Thanks for responding so promply, It may be a couple of weeks before I get around to getting this set up but I'll post when I do. The Philips TV supports EPG so I'm not sure why its not functioning - anything to do with the reception? Also I never checked teletext. Must do tonight. Furthermore how do you incorporate Irish and UK DTT?

Thanks again

Satdog

Thanks again for promt reply on the aerials. What about above?

mrdtv · 21-09-2009 2:34pm

Satdog wrote: »

Thanks again for promt reply on the aerials. What about above?

You need to either a) diplex two antennas together, which will be messy as Preseli is Group B and Mt Leinster appears to be wideband or b) install the Preseli 'super' antenna wideband and see if Mt Leinster DTT comes off the side (it will be stronger and orientation will not be an issue for local services). I think a step-by-step process is best:

a) Get Preseli working perfectly

b) Get RTE DTT working separately

c) Then understand how to integrate them.

Teletext: UK DSO stations do NOT supply analogue teletext whereas RTE DTT does. You need to be able to decode MHEG5 for UK teletext: if the Philips doesn't support this standard then this is not possible.

irishtoffee · 21-09-2009 5:10pm

Had good reception before the switch off and got one of the freeview boxes today,a philips one and hey presto nothing when i scan for channels?Any ideas?

Antenna · 21-09-2009 6:11pm

mrdtv wrote: »

You need to either a) diplex two antennas together, which will be messy as Preseli is Group B and Mt Leinster appears to be wideband or b) install the Preseli 'super' antenna wideband and see if Mt Leinster DTT comes off the side (it will be stronger and orientation will not be an issue for local services). I think a step-by-step process is best:

if one requires reception of both Irish DTT and UK DTT in Wexford area - the only affordable solution to the potential problems for a householder would be to run two seperate aerial downleads and aerial cabling - one for Irish, one for UK, and use an 'A/B switch' at each STB/receiver to select the required aerial - unless there is such a thing as a MPEG4 receiver that has two aerial inputs?

Just combining aerials of signals of the same group is going to be messy, mainly due to the co-channel issue, and the fact one of the two sources will vary greatly in strength during the year. The Irish Dtt on ch45 may normally be dominant, but at times the second (presely) aerial might pull in enough co-channel signal to cause bad breakup of the Irish DTT mux on Ch 45. The 'Irish' UHF aerial may also pick up distant inland Irish transmitters (either analogue or DTT) that might interfere with UK DTT also depending on the weather. Source of interference incude Carn Hill which uses some of the Presely DTT channels (43,46,50)

marclt · 21-09-2009 6:11pm

irishtoffee wrote: »

Had good reception before the switch off and got one of the freeview boxes today,a philips one and hey presto nothing when i scan for channels?Any ideas?

Hi Toffee, what box did you get there fella? We need to scan manually to see what sort of signal you're getting. How 'good' was analogue, very... crystal?

The box should be directly connected to your aerial - I mean it should be the first thing connected to your aerial, then your tv or freeview box, then vcr into tv. That way it should get the most signal.

Are you even getting blank screens for the Irish dtt service?

With the philips box, go into MENU, SEARCH FOR CHANNELS and Click MANUAL then look for Freequency and move left/right to find Ch.43 (the BBC mux).

In Miscellaneous settings you could enter a local postcode, PM me and I'll give you one. MRDTV, do you know if that helps?

irishtoffee · 21-09-2009 6:18pm

Hi marc got the philips one that you posted the link to.I have the aerial connected and the scart lead and when i do an auto scan i have no signal strength at all.When i did the manual scan it only lasts seconds and finds nothing.My reception was crystal clear in good weather and a bit snowy in bad before the turn off.

Yep did that and nothing.In the frequency it has k43 is that wright?

No mate trying it in bedroom.

marclt · 21-09-2009 6:22pm

Antenna wrote: »

if one requires reception of both Irish DTT and UK DTT in Wexford area - the only affordable solution to the potential problems for a householder would be to run two seperate aerial downleads and aerial cabling - one for Irish, one for UK, and use an 'A/B switch' at each STB/receiver to select the required aerial - unless there is such a thing as a MPEG4 receiver that has two aerial inputs?

Just combining aerials of signals of the same group is going to be messy, mainly due to the co-channel issue, and the fact one of the two sources will vary greatly in strength during the year. The Irish Dtt on ch45 may normally be dominant, but at times the second (presely) aerial might pull in enough co-channel signal to cause bad breakup of the Irish DTT mux on Ch 45. The 'Irish' UHF aerial may also pick up distant inland Irish transmitters (either analogue or DTT) that might interfere with UK DTT also depending on the weather. Source of interference incude Carn Hill which uses some of the Presely DTT channels (43,46,50)

From knowing the area, i used to have a group a aerial pointed at mount leinster which picked up cairn hill causing co-channel on the UK analogues, so the best you can do to minimise this co-channel the better I think.

Irishtoffee,

yeah, K43, K46 and K50 are all the public service channels. So the power these are transmitting at is full power.

are you trying it on the main tv in the house?

irishtoffee · 21-09-2009 8:59pm

Just wanted to say thanks marc and i will get back to you on the other stuff tomorrow.

bmaxi · 21-09-2009 10:09pm

Finally got to test the freeview box on my elderly neighbour's aerial, sad to say it was not a success. Hers is one of the square aerials and is actually still receiving BBC and ITV from Wales, albeit not great reception, maybe the aerial is misaligned.
Anyway, quality fluctuated between 30% and 70% possibly due to strong wind today but I doubt it would be a viable project, certainly with her current setup. Coaxial cables are the old brown ones to so probably been there since the year dot.

Welsh digital switch over-Irish reception questions answered

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