Imagine if we all spoke Irish

dlofnep · 10-07-2009 02:49AM

So the onus is on the Polish and Japanese to preserve it? I don't need to give you an incentive. You either support it or you don't.

Overheal · 10-07-2009 02:59AM

Imagine if we all spoke Irish

Ha ha ha haha haha ha ha ha ha ha hahaha...

That would require the Irish to actually invade somewhere

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

franglan · 10-07-2009 03:07AM

Three of us are living in Boston for the summer, we're using the aul teanga the whole time, for the usual, on the underground, in shops, etc. It's like we're in the Gaeltacht- U.S.A. style. My Irish is actually improving and is flowing alot easier every week. Its priceless to see the reaction o peoples faces when your chatting away in english, and you change to Irish mid-sentance.:eek:

RuthieRose · 10-07-2009 03:13AM

jill_valentine wrote: »

As an Irish person, I'm not obliged to do anything. My nationality is a matter of happenstance and nothing more.

This is what I was kinda trying to get at. Nationalism is no incentive to me. If you want to encourage people to pick up Irish, or at least to respect it's preservation, you need to find a better reason to offer them than just "You should because you're Irish."

It makes me sad you feel that way. The fact you need a reason to be proud of your native language. If you do need a better reason than that then there is no way of convincing you.

RuthieRose · 10-07-2009 03:14AM

We used to do that all the time over there. Twas Craic Mor :-D

jill_valentine · 10-07-2009 03:59AM

RuthieRose wrote: »

It makes me sad you feel that way. The fact you need a reason to be proud of your native language. If you do need a better reason than that then there is no way of convincing you.

You're missing my point a wee bit, and kind of illustrating it.

Read this thread, particularly the early posts from Irish speakers, from my point of view.

I speak English. That's the language I'm fluent in. I didn't grow up in an Irish speaking area, and didn't enjoy the subject in school, and that's just how it is. I learned it from an ultra-Republican whackjob because I needed the qualification. I don't use it in "real life" at all, and don't foresee a practical need for it in future.

I have no patience for any form of nationalism, and get cranky when somebody tries to blackmail me with it. I don't take kindly to being patronised. I really, really don't enjoy passive-aggressive swipes at my sense of civic duty. I resent it when somebody is blatantly taking it upon themselves to educate me mid-conversation by wedging cupla focail in where they don't fit. And so on, and on, and on.

I could learn the language properly now, but why would I want to if my experience of Irish speakers is negative? The one big thing that any language has going for it is that it offers a door into an otherwise hidden community. That community chooses to consistently demean both the language I speak and me just for speaking it. Why should I want to engage with that community to any greater extent when it's been made perfectly clear to me that I'm not welcome?

Irish speakers do their cause no favours by consistently belittling English speakers, and it frustrates me how few seem to recognise this. English is not the enemy.

RuthieRose · 10-07-2009 04:37AM

I wasn't making a passive aggressive swipe at you regarding your civic duty. I do understand what you mean about having a negative view of native Irish speakers.
I don't come from an Irish Speaking area either. My parents, 2 of my older siblings and most of my extended family are English.
What makes me feel sad is that you have had (the same as me) a negative experiance of Native Irish Speakers and this has influanced your feeling on the subject so much. what I am proud of is that its the only country in the world where it is spoken (and yes few use it day to day) But its a pity its not used a little more without the school drudgerie of the subject. English, French, German etc. are all very "common" in every country. I work with alot of people from Easten Europe and they all speak their own language and Russian as a common language. Its not Nationalism that would be my interest or why I feel it should (in some cases) be spoken. It more of a sence of pride within myself that I come from a country where we have this language and its nice to be able to speak it.. Hidden culture if you like.
I do however feel very strongly about how (some) people who do speak Irish are so black and white about it and how they make people feel when they cannot converse. Its does give people a negative perception. And I think some (the good ones) native speakers have seen this and are trying to rub out this issue to make way for a more natural flow of the language in day to day things.

Wibbs · 10-07-2009 07:56AM

RuthieRose wrote: »

It makes me sad you feel that way. The fact you need a reason to be proud of your native language. If you do need a better reason than that then there is no way of convincing you.

I think it boils down to this, it doesn't feel like "our" native language to many if not most. It belongs to others within the irish culture in a way. People with a genuine interest in it, more a hobby for others, for some a way to exclude fellow irish people and a stick to beat them with in the name of patriotism and nationalism. Plus in the move away from rural living to urban, it hasn't followed to the extent it may have. Add in the wasted money and resources in the promotion of the language for the guts of a 100 years too. There isn't the homogenous feeling and action of the majority of the population to want to speak it. Now many will if asked say it's a good thing that it's being preserved, but it's more lip service too and to many it has as much actual relevance to their lives as French or Chinese.

topper75 · 10-07-2009 08:46AM

karlog wrote: »

Our first language is irish and hardly anyone I talk to speaks it:rolleyes:

FYP

marko91 · 10-07-2009 11:29AM

karlog wrote: »

In my opinion it would be a disaster.

English being the most widely spoken language in the world it's lucky we have it as our first language agree?:D

agree!...irish is a useless language "but its our 1st language" BLEHHHH! shut up theirs no need for it its pointless....in a few hundred years irish will be the new latin

tolosenc · 10-07-2009 12:18PM

marko91 wrote: »

agree!...irish is a useless language "but its our 1st language" BLEHHHH! shut up theirs no need for it its pointless....in a few hundred years irish will be the new latin

When are the summer holidays over?

getz · 10-07-2009 12:21PM

celtic irish like english is a immigrant language ,who knows what the original language of ireland was,there was never many people living in ireland speaking celtic irish,so in many ways it has been compulsory reinvented as part of the irish culture by a republican goverment,and one of the main problems you would have to sort out before any united ireland,my celtic language should be cumbic,

Stollaire · 10-07-2009 12:48PM

karlog wrote: »

In my opinion it would be a disaster.

English being the most widely spoken language in the world it's lucky we have it as our first language agree?

Surely we'd all be bilingual, like ever Irish speaker in the country?
The brain has space for more than one language.

Takk · 10-07-2009 01:07PM

karlog wrote: »

Imagine if we all spoke Irish

Gnéas Ar Lasadh!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyggOlf7FpU

Edit:

Bell x1 - "Flame" as Gaeilge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34mK_np7VTw

Glen Hansard + Marketa Irglova - "Falling Slowly" as Gaeilge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0VHxPGr0XU

thelordofcheese · 10-07-2009 01:15PM

Dynamo Kev wrote: »

Gnéas Ar Lasadh!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyggOlf7FpU

I didn't think it was possible to make that song even worse, but fair play to the lads, they managed it.

Deedsie · 10-07-2009 01:18PM

Class song :rolleyes:

Name me in one way it would be detrimental to a person to be bilingual.

I would love to be fluent in Irish. If I was I would always speak it. Irish is not a dead language, maybe in alot of Ireland it is rarely used but in the west it is actively used. How patronising do you think it is to native speakers when you say there language is dead?

Small bit of respect for there language. If its not yours.

getz · 10-07-2009 01:37PM

i dont think ireland has gone the best way to try to get people to learn irish,if you take wales for instance what they did was to insist that goverment jobs[in the north]could only be filled by people who spoke a level of welsh ,with the flow of immigrant children coming in special classes out of normal school hrs were set up,but what did ireland do?, after 15 years of daily lessons in irish,the majority of the population are unable to construct a simple sentence in irish .the goverment has invested huge resources in the promotion of irish ,up to 30% of school time at primery level has been devoted to teaching irish, in 2005 the leaving certificates was so bad that they were suppressed , unless there is a some incentive for learning it , it will never be a major language in ireland[just out of interest over 30,000 people in london speak a good level of irish because it seams english/irish schools have the best teachers or people who go there WANT to learn it]

asdasd · 10-07-2009 01:49PM

I have no patience for any form of nationalism, and get cranky when somebody tries to blackmail me with it. I don't take kindly to being patronised. I really, really don't enjoy passive-aggressive swipes at my sense of civic duty. I resent it when somebody is blatantly taking it upon themselves to educate me mid-conversation by wedging cupla focail in where they don't fit. And so on, and on, and on.

Of course you do have a form of "nationalism" - your tribal dislike of Irish may well come from nationalist roots - maybe Old English, for instance.

There really is no such thing as a non-nationalist. The world is not the same. Cultures are different. There are two options in ireland, a vaguely Irish option ( liking Irish music, sports and languague) or the Ango-Spheric option of liking English or Amercian stuff better, and disliking the Irish. This latter option could well be ethnic, in fact given the pathological hatred certain classes have for anything remotely culturally different entertained by the Irish( BogBall etc.) , it probably is.

The anti-Irish types tend not to be fluent in Swahili, or Finnish.

This debate is only possible in colonised countries. A french man who spoke English, knew no French, hated French cusine, and French sports and culture would probably not be considered very French by his co-patriots... It is hard to imagine, well unless France had an English invasion for centuries, of course.

enniscorthy · 10-07-2009 01:52PM

went over to london lived there through 70s/80s so never really got a chance to learn it then came back here late 80s.1 day a thing comes through the letterbox.irish classes in local gaa centre hehehehehehe:D. i said what the hell i forked up me 10 pound at the time for first class,went down had 1 snob of a teacher simply dreadful she was a secondary school teacher by day wouldnt you know

hehehehehahahahah:P class full of gaa heads and bar room republicans givin out about a province they have never even been to hehehehehehahahahahah:p anyway needless to say i didnt last song hohohoh but hey still managed to pick up a word or 2 but seriously dont even get me started on tg4 what a load of LIATHROIDÍ hehehehehehhehehehehehehahahahahahhaaahohohohohohohohohho;);););):D:D:D:D:D:eek:

Hagar · 10-07-2009 02:02PM

Keep taking the tablets. Maybe even up the dose a little.

jill_valentine · 10-07-2009 02:02PM

asdasd wrote: »

Of course you do have a form of "nationalism" - your tribal dislike of Irish may well come from nationalist roots - maybe Old English, for instance.

This is hilarious.

markopantelic · 10-07-2009 02:06PM

Its like a post you'd see on Politics.ie.

topper75 · 10-07-2009 02:17PM

enniscorthy wrote: »

went over to london lived there through 70s/80s so never really got a chance to learn it then came back here late 80s.1 day a thing comes through the letterbox.irish classes in local gaa centre hehehehehehe:D. i said what the hell i forked up me 10 pound at the time for first class,went down had 1 snob of a teacher simply dreadful she was a secondary school teacher by day wouldnt you know hehehehehahahahah:P class full of gaa heads and bar room republicans givin out about a province they have never even been to hehehehehehahahahahah:p anyway needless to say i didnt last song hohohoh but hey still managed to pick up a word or 2 but seriously dont even get me started on tg4 what a load of LIATHROIDÍ hehehehehehhehehehehehehahahahahahhaaahohohohohohohohohho;);););):D:D:D:D:D:eek:

The language is yours though. You have to think again about why you allowed these unsavoury people, the snob and bar room republicans, to characterise the language for you - it really belongs to you. You deserve credit for going down and giving it a lash back then. Most don't. Cúpla focail is no harm at all.

thorbarry · 10-07-2009 02:22PM

phasers wrote: »

póg mo thóin

Bonjour?

asdasd · 10-07-2009 02:29PM

This is hilarious.

Explain why.....

asdasd · 10-07-2009 02:35PM

Its like a post you'd see on Politics.ie.

Gosh, now. I cant believe you said that . I may cry.

in the history of Ireland, some people came from English backgrounds. They would have been English speakers. Their descendents would obviously have a larger affection for Englishness, than Irishness.

I hardly think this is in dispute. The argument that being anti-Irish is the same as being anti-Nationalist is a bit like someone of mostly Spanish descenent in Venezula who opposed the promotion indigenous languages, but loved Spanish, claiming to be anti-Nationalist. Or someone of English descent in Wales hating Welsh.

Very few people get by talking Finnish all day, therefore the "anti-nationalists" are basically English nationalist, or anglophiles.

Exactly why an anti-nationalist would be opposed to that idea is beyond me. Why would someone so opposed to nationalism, care what nationalism other people consider him.

1huge1 · 10-07-2009 02:42PM

Elliot Round Pennant wrote: »

No it isn't...

Not all of us do.

Its the most known language by a large margin, not the most known 1st language however that honour goes to mandarin chinese

Maglight · 10-07-2009 02:59PM

asdasd wrote: »

Gosh, now. I cant believe you said that . I may cry.

in the history of Ireland, some people came from English backgrounds. They would have been English speakers. Their descendents would obviously have a larger affection for Englishness, than Irishness.

I hardly think this is in dispute. The argument that being anti-Irish is the same as being anti-Nationalist is a bit like someone of mostly Spanish descenent in Venezula who opposed the promotion indigenous languages, but loved Spanish, claiming to be anti-Nationalist. Or someone of English descent in Wales hating Welsh.

Very few people get by talking Finnish all day, therefore the "anti-nationalists" are basically English nationalist, or anglophiles.

Exactly why an anti-nationalist would be opposed to that idea is beyond me. Why would someone so opposed to nationalism, care what nationalism other people consider him.

I'm sure this all makes perfect sense to you. But honestly, I've read your post twice and I still can't figure out what you are on about.

I think I've got the gist of your argument ie. people of English descent are more likely to dislike Irish and possibly learn French instead. I don't agree with you by the way. Also, if you extend that logic, the English would largely be anti-English and learning French instead also, because they are of Norman heritage.

Anyway, don't know where the Finns fit into your point at all. Perhaps you would reword it in shorter sentences and maybe your point will come across a bit more clearly.

Thanks

asdasd · 10-07-2009 03:05PM

I think I've got the gist of your argument ie. people of English descent are more likely to dislike Irish and possibly learn French instead. I don't agree with you by the way. Also, if you extend that logic, the English would largely be anti-English and learning French instead also, because they are of Norman heritage.

Where did I mention French?

I said that people of English descent in Ireland would naturally be hostile to Irish, but this is not an anti-nationalist position.

Anyway, don't know where the Finns fit into your point at all. Perhaps you would reword it in shorter sentences and maybe your point will come across a bit more clearly.

How about you learn to read sentences a bit more complex than the primer you got when you were twelve. I read the Finn thing again, and it makes perfect sense. Should I draw pictures ? I am trying to work out how a relatively simple concept could cause so much grief. I will try once more.

Lets start with something we all agree:

The decision to speak Irish is a nationalistic act.

So lets move on.

There are people who decry the use of Irish as nationalistic. I say in reply.

The decision to speak English is a nationalistic act. Particularly for people of English descent in Ireland.

( TRAINING WHEELS ON)

The anti-irish language "anti-nationalists" speak English, not some other language LIKE FINNISH for reasons to do with their background, and/or Irelands colonial past.

I cant make it any simpler. Really. you just need to try and be smarter.

Dionysus · 10-07-2009 04:38PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

I speak English. That's the language I'm fluent in. I didn't grow up in an Irish speaking area, and didn't enjoy the subject in school, and that's just how it is. I learned it from an ultra-Republican whackjob because I needed the qualification. I don't use it in "real life" at all, and don't foresee a practical need for it in future.
I have no patience for any form of nationalism, and get cranky when somebody tries to blackmail me with it. I don't take kindly to being patronised. I really, really don't enjoy passive-aggressive swipes at my sense of civic duty. I resent it when somebody is blatantly taking it upon themselves to educate me mid-conversation by wedging cupla focail in where they don't fit. And so on, and on, and on.

I could learn the language properly now, but why would I want to if my experience of Irish speakers is negative? The one big thing that any language has going for it is that it offers a door into an otherwise hidden community. That community chooses to consistently demean both the language I speak and me just for speaking it. Why should I want to engage with that community to any greater extent when it's been made perfectly clear to me that I'm not welcome?

Irish speakers do their cause no favours by consistently belittling English speakers, and it frustrates me how few seem to recognise this. English is not the enemy.

In fairness when English speakers are displaying as much prejudice, intolerance and scapegoat-searching as your posts thus far have shown then contempt is utterly deserved.

Meanwhile, I'm a native English speaker from the Pale. I had the seemingly ubiquitous terrible Irish teacher but, unlike you, I have no intention of saying something as asinine as "oh I hate the language because I had a 'republican whackjob' as a teacher' - how very convenient to write your own failures off by falling into stereotypes. That, by any standard, is raw prejudice. If you hate Irish, fair enough. I hated Maths but was forced to do it by this - let me see - "gay computer nerd" (how's that for a stereotype?) ergo Maths is awful, a crap subject and I resent people telling me I have to do it to show my education level, never mind to pass the Leaving Cert exam which determined so much of my future opportunity. Yeah, Calculus has just been of huge "practical" use to me.

Blah, blah, blah. How lame, how weak.

Take responsibilility for your own failures, move on and get to some place you feel more confident in; that is what most people do. Live and let live. Most of all, stop trying to display your bigotry against people who love and respect Irish. You don't like it - big swing. We - that is the millions upon millions of Irish people who do respect the language even if they cannot master it - don't really care. But trying to rail against Irish speakers and portray them as backward and "nationalist" (as if Irish doesn't predate nationalism) and demanding that "they" (this nebulous people) need to be nice to you in order to persuade you of their merit is arrogant tripe at its highest. How patronising. Indeed, how very English of you - the "backward" Irish speakers and the "progressive" English speakers. Where have students of Irish history seen this dichotomy before?

PS: My experience of English people is that they are all imperialist scum. Ergo, by your own wonderful logic, the English should all be nice to me because this is my (unverifiable) experience. Prejudice, how are you.

Imagine if we all spoke Irish

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