Deportation case mother had fake baby death papers, inquiry told

Placebo · 27-03-2009 03:35PM

Dublin1600 wrote: »

So its been revealed that this woman Pamela Izevbekhai who never give birth to a daughter she claim died of female genital mutilation. The Irish embassy in Nigeria confirms, "that the registry of deaths in the Surulere district in Lagos for 1994 showed only 55 entries but the certificate produced for Elizabeth Izevbekhai was entered as number 56". A Nigerian obstetrician has dismissed a document, allegedly signed by him, as a forgery. He also rejected Mrs Izevbekhai's claim that she gave birth to a daughter, Elizabeth, in February 1993 and that the girl died on July 16, 1994, following female genital mutilation. How much of our tax was wasted on this woman in countless appeals.

in fairness all 'OUR' tax is wasted on 'OUR' people sitting on dole.
seen the stats lately?

Rented Mule · 27-03-2009 03:37PM

Nodin wrote: »

No, you're again transferring from the specific to the general. If a woman appears saying that she's been raped and is found to have lied, that does not mean rape does not occur, just that it hasn't occured in that instance. Likewise if a number of Nigerians have acted in a certain way, it doesnt mean all Nigerians will act similarily.

Wow....just wow.

Let's break down the specifics of this story.

1) She claimed that her child was mutilated
2) She claimed that her child died from this act
3 This child never existed
4) She falsified documents
5) She lied to the Irish people about this crime
6) She is wasting valuable state resources in the meantime by continuing with this farce.

She is a liar. Perjury is a crime.

She shouldn't let the door hit her on the arse going out the door.

Terry · 27-03-2009 03:39PM

ShooterSF wrote: »

Two things sadden me here.

1: The joke of a system we have in this country and Europe that allows someone who has shown no respect for our countries laws to stay in the country this long.

2: People who are still standing by someone who is now more and more obviously lying to our courts. When someone legit applies for asylum it would be harder to listen to the opinion of people who would have a scam artist stay cause "she's a human being". I'm sorry but while in a perfect world we could take in anyone who wanted to come here (for what, in my opinion, this lady is really here for) economic reasons, we simply can't and more to the point the worst off are not the one's that can afford to even get this far.

Trust me she is doing nothing but harm when it comes to peoples opinion of multi-culturilism(sp?) rightly or wrongly and no one (regardless of your opinion on asylum issues) should be supporting this woman now.

herya wrote: »

A fraud is a fraud and FGM is FGM. That she had lied and especially invented a dead girl to carry her through asylum procedure for personal gain is an utter disgrace and I hope she will bear the consequences. But to question all FGM cases basing on this is simply ignorant.

Both banned.
I gave three warnings on this thread about calling her a liar.
It has not been proven that she lied.

thebman · 27-03-2009 03:39PM

Placebo wrote: »

in fairness all 'OUR' tax is wasted on 'OUR' people sitting on dole.
seen the stats lately?

I imagine most of the new people on the dole have made PRSI payments are just getting what they put in to the dole.

You can blame the government for not being responsible with the money they gave them.

Degsy · 27-03-2009 03:40PM

Clarehobo wrote: »

But what actually riles me up is there are people out there who have had children die as a result of this practise.

There are people in this country who have had children die due to bad nutrition,neglect and abuse.
Our job is to concentrate on them,not a bunch of people thousands of miles away.
If it riles you so much you should volunteer to go over and stop it..

Terry · 27-03-2009 03:42PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

Wow....just wow.

Let's break down the specifics of this story.

1) She claimed that her child was mutilated
2) She claimed that her child died from this act
3 This child never existed
4) She falsified documents
5) She lied to the Irish people about this crime
6) She is wasting valuable state resources in the meantime by continuing with this farce.

She is a liar. Perjury is a crime.

She shouldn't let the door hit her on the arse going out the door.

And another ban.

dontcallmecrazy · 27-03-2009 03:42PM

Clarehobo wrote: »

But what actually riles me up is there are people out there who have had children die as a result of this practise.
IF she is lying about the death of a child, I think deportation is too good for her.

I agree totally, im not denying that IF she is waffling then yeah get her out, big time & money waster etc...BUT none of us know for sure, she is being branded a fraud regardless though. i woudl just hate to think that IF she is genuine then she is being put through an awful ordeal, just the softy in me.

Nodin · 27-03-2009 03:43PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

Wow....just wow.

Let's (.........)the door.

Allegedly.....

I don't think you've been following. This is what I was/am responding to .....

No..we have an obligation (to our own people) to find out if she's telling the truth.
If she isnt we're well within our rights not to listen to such a story again.

Logically, a false claim of injury via car crash does not mean that there is no such thing as car crashes, or injury by them.

Santa Claus · 27-03-2009 03:43PM

Placebo wrote: »

in fairness all 'OUR' tax is wasted on 'OUR' people sitting on dole.
seen the stats lately?

As someone on the dole, this is incredibly insulting. I spent 12 years working and paying taxes ,before being made unemployed.

Dole is approx 10k a year.....I'm sure this woman gets a hell of a lot more out of the state for supporting herself and her children without ever having paid a cent in taxes in this country (ok, she pays VAT on purchases but everyone does).

And lets not getr started on how much she has cost taxpayers with her solicitors/barristers fees from each court hearing !!!!!!

Don't know what stats you're looking at, but there's very little voluntary unemployment about at the moment.

dontcallmecrazy wrote: »

I agree totally, im not denying that IF she is waffling then yeah get her out, big time & money waster etc...BUT none of us know for sure, she is being branded a fraud regardless though

None of us know for sure ??? Garda investigation proved certificate was false and Doctor denies any knowledge of delivering/signing death cert for baby....sounds fairly iron cast to me that she is a fraud !

Terry · 27-03-2009 03:45PM

Santa Claus wrote: »

As someone on the dole, this is incredibly insulting. I spent 12 years working and paying taxes ,before being made unemployed.

Dole is approx 10k a year.....I'm sure this woman gets a hell of a lot more out of the state for supporting herself and her children without ever having paid a cent in taxes in this country (ok, she pays VAT on purchases but everyone does).

And lets not getr started on how much she has cost taxpayers with her solicitors/barristers fees from each court hearing !!!!!!

Don't know what stats you're looking at, but there's very little voluntary unemployment about at the moment.

Yeah, but you only work one night a year.

Completely agree with your post. Out of thanks.
/serious.

27-03-2009 03:47PM

Degsy wrote: »

There are people in this country who have had children die due to bad nutrition,neglect and abuse.
Our job is to concentrate on them,not a bunch of people thousands of miles away.
If it riles you so much you should volunteer to go over and stop it..

You missed my point completely - I was actually trying to get across that if she has lied about such a horrible thing, that deportation is too good for her.
If she has lied about it, she is the lowest of the low.

If you had read my previous post, I neither condoned nor opposed FGM as it is a characteristic of some African societies and it would be prejudiced and racist of me to judge a society on the basis of that practise.

Lu Tze · 27-03-2009 03:48PM

Nodin wrote: »

Allegedly.....

Logically, a false claim of injury via car crash does not mean that there is no such thing as car crashes, or injury by them.

I presume he meant we shouldn't listen to the same specific case again in another (higher) court if it has been proved she has given false evidence, not that all cases which are similar to this one should not be listened to.

Though i may be wrong!

Daroxtar · 27-03-2009 04:00PM

Dudess wrote: »

LOL at someone who effectively said a circumcised woman can still experience sexual pleasure because her g-spot is left... :rolleyes:

Why not?
If all the external nerve endings are destroyed as previously stated then there will be no sensation on the outside. Therefore the internal nerve endings would be the ones which would need to be stimulated. If you ever had an orgasm you would be aware that there are, according to so called experts at least 2 types of female orgasm, internal and external( we wont go into examples of anal or the rarer cases involving nipple stimulation) While FGM precludes a woman having an external, clitorally stimulated orgasm it does not prevent orgasm due to stimulation of the G spot. I'm not the only one displaying ignorance of matters sexual.

SWL · 27-03-2009 04:02PM

Placebo wrote: »

in fairness all 'OUR' tax is wasted on 'OUR' people sitting on dole.
seen the stats lately?

Please what a load of BS - hope you don't require state assistance in the coming months,

I feel sorry for some genuine lefties out there the majority of Irish people are considerate, warm hearted and would have genuine understanding for the emotional plight this women faced, and the thanks they received their generosity and understanding has been thrown back in their faces - I would imagine people in Sligo feel a little used and very silly for being so gullible

Once bitten twice shy, future genuine cases will suffer and huge problems for non nationals in this country.

Daroxtar · 27-03-2009 04:07PM

SWL wrote: »

I would imagine people in Sligo feel a little used and very silly for being so gullible

Once bitten twice shy, future genuine cases will suffer and huge problems for non nationals in this country.

The vast majority of us in sligo never believed a word of it. I reject your claims of gullibility and silliness. Those kind of generalisations are completly yeatsist:D

Dudess · 27-03-2009 04:08PM

Daroxtar wrote: »

Why not?
If all the external nerve endings are destroyed as previously stated then there will be no sensation on the outside. Therefore the internal nerve endings would be the ones which would need to be stimulated. If you ever had an orgasm you would be aware that there are, according to so called experts at least 2 types of female orgasm, internal and external( we wont go into examples of anal or the rarer cases involving nipple stimulation) While FGM precludes a woman having an external, clitorally stimulated orgasm it does not prevent orgasm due to stimulation of the G spot. I'm not the only one displaying ignorance of matters sexual.

The point is: the pain caused by the procedure (look up how unbelievably horrendous it is) is only going to make sex miserable and pleasure-free - g-spot left behind or no g-spot.

thebman · 27-03-2009 04:18PM

eh, don't people think that taking of parts of other peoples bodies without their permission is wrong?

Or bullying them into giving permission (not really giving permission in this case) is wrong?

I would have thought it was a given myself.

Daroxtar · 27-03-2009 04:21PM

Dudess wrote: »

The point is: the pain caused by the procedure (look up how unbelievably horrendous it is) is only going to make sex miserable and pleasure-free - g-spot left behind or no g-spot.

I'd have to disagree. If it was carried out when the child was very young then they would have no recollection of the pain or misery caused. Therefore if in later life they had loving consensual sex and their g spot was properly stimulated there should be no reason why they could not enjoy sex. Its like saying that a person who was sexually abused which is also unbelievably horrendous could never enjoy a sexual relationship again ,which is untrue.

Dudess · 27-03-2009 04:27PM

It appears you're not fully briefed on what FGM is - the pain isn't just during/immediately after the procedure. It stays with the woman, no matter how young she was when it was carried out - making urinating/sex and, obviously, birth painful experiences each time.
I shudder to think what cystitis must be like for those poor women.

Part of the reason for it is so sex will be uncomfortable for the woman. It's a horrible practice, steeped in misogyny. Plenty of mothers and grandmothers will agree to it being carried out, but only because they are coerced/blinded by tradition.

chughes · 27-03-2009 04:51PM

Gerry Ryan talked to Philip Boucher Hayes on his radio show this morning and Philip told Gerry that he investigated this case when it first came to light a few years ago. Philip Boucher Hayes says that he interviewed the Nigerian doctor that helped deliver the child when she was born and also dealt with the aftermath of the FGM procedure. The doctor was able to produce his documentation in relation to both events. Apparently, this doctor has since been approached by a member of the Nigerian military and told not to talk to any more Irish radio journalists. It would seem that there is a conspirancy to mislead and maybe we should not be so quick to judge in this case until we have all the facts.

marcsignal · 27-03-2009 05:05PM

chughes wrote: »

It would seem that there is a conspirancy to mislead and maybe we should not be so quick to judge in this case until we have all the facts.

Good point, so maybe Philip Boucher Hayes could provide us with a Death Certificate? or even a photo of the gravestone??

hardly an impossible task for such an eminent investigative journalist.

Dudess · 27-03-2009 05:15PM

Why do you WANT her to be guilty?

Sean Quagmire · 27-03-2009 05:25PM

Dudess wrote: »

Why do you WANT her to be guilty?

Because she's a sammer plain and simple.
send her and her kind back where they belong. lol at the saps holding protest to keep her here. what has done to contibute to this country nothing.

media tried to paint her as a caring mother thats a victim, how wrong they where. boils my blood looking at her.

Dudess · 27-03-2009 05:27PM

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

Because she's a sammer plain and simple.
send her and her kind back where they belong. lol at the saps holding protest to keep her here. what has done to contibute to this country nothing.

media tried to paint her as a caring mother thats a victim, how wrong they where. boils my blood looking at her.

Oh so you've discovered she's been found guilty?

Or... have you just acted as judge and jury yourself?

Degsy · 27-03-2009 05:28PM

Dudess wrote: »

Why do you WANT her to be guilty?

In my opinion she is guilty.
I want her to be proved guilty to shut up the tossers who beleive any old nonsense these people spout and call everybody who chooses not to bleive them racists.
Also,the sooner they chuck her out of the country the better,we dont want any precedents being set and even more people chancing thier arms.

BennyLava · 27-03-2009 05:30PM

The lengths the F.F. PR team will go to to deflect attention from Brian Cowen,

imagine paying a doctor in Nigeria to say a birth cert is fake

,
I feel proud my tax money is been well spent

Dudess · 27-03-2009 05:30PM

How can a person be guilty because it's someone's opinion they are?

Sean Quagmire · 27-03-2009 05:31PM

dont need to be a judge for that! she lied about FGM just to stay here playing on the gullible irish people who actually listen to her.
this sort of thing happened in lagos 20 years ago. it very seldom happens now.

she picked something to use as a tool to manipulate others into getting what she wants. she lied. she is scum.

dr.bollocko · 27-03-2009 05:33PM

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

Because she's a sammer plain and simple.
send her and her kind back where they belong. lol at the saps holding protest to keep her here. what has done to contibute to this country nothing.

media tried to paint her as a caring mother thats a victim, how wrong they where. boils my blood looking at her.

Sammer?

Dudess · 27-03-2009 05:33PM

Scammer. So anyway yeah, you WANT her to be guilty because you like taking part in witch hunts. Kudos.

Deportation case mother had fake baby death papers, inquiry told

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