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Welcome to World War 3

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    #62
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    simplification is thekey to gaining an understanding ;)
    Not when you keep the initial opinions and biases of a situation and then state that your oversimplification is a valid assessment of the situation. I believe that's how you define remaining ignorant.
    If you want to discuss the actual situation perhaps you should take it to Politics.

    But where's the conspiracy?
    Wouldn't the NWO want to cover up what the Israelis are doing?
    Wouldn't they be able to, cause they control the media?
    Wouldn't they stifle completely the Palestinian views?


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    #63
    pfishfood
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭pfishfood


    WW3 i love a good conspiracy story as well as the next person. But its like the shiny light trick . While this hand is distracting you with the light, you cant see what the other hands doing. Next ting now youll be trying to convince me that the earth is hollow:D


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    #64
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    Not when you keep the initial opinions and biases of a situation and then state that your oversimplification is a valid assessment of the situation. I believe that's how you define remaining ignorant.
    If you want to discuss the actual situation perhaps you should take it to Politics.

    But where's the conspiracy?
    Wouldn't the NWO want to cover up what the Israelis are doing?
    Wouldn't they be able to, cause they control the media?
    Wouldn't they stifle completely the Palestinian views?

    Your assuming bias, unfairly for me.

    Unstable middle east, the cause is the major villain in the arab worlds view, the state of Israel. Any threat to Israel is a threat to advanced civilisation, democracy, basicially all that is good in the world. Enemies of Israel are enemies of Israel are enemies of freedom and must be treated as such. Also, it is preferable if they are oil producing countries.

    In answer to your q's;

    1.Yes
    2.Obviously they already do. Which is one of thing things I find so fascinating here. Evidently educated and intelligent people fail to see what is staring them in the face.
    3.Do you honestly think they are all that concerned for Palestinian "views"?


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    #65
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Your assuming bias, unfairly for me.
    By biases I was refering to assumptions like: because the US is backing Israel that Hamas are just plucky freedom fighters. But I was not assuming anyone had any such biases.
    Except for Mahatmas bias against the Jews.
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Unstable middle east, the cause is the major villain in the arab worlds view, the state of Israel. Any threat to Israel is a threat to advanced civilisation, democracy, basicially all that is good in the world. Enemies of Israel are enemies of Israel are enemies of freedom and must be treated as such. Also, it is preferable if they are oil producing countries.
    Who exactly do you think believes that?

    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    In answer to your q's;

    1.Yes
    2.Obviously they already do. Which is one of thing things I find so fascinating here. Evidently educated and intelligent people fail to see what is staring them in the face.
    3.Do you honestly think they are all that concerned for Palestinian "views"?

    So the attacks being all over the news the last few days is what exactly?


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    #66
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    By biases I was refering to assumptions like: because the US is backing Israel that Hamas are just plucky freedom fighters. But I was not assuming anyone had any such biases.
    Except for Mahatmas bias against the Jews.


    Who exactly do you think believes that?




    So the attacks being all over the news the last few days is what exactly?

    How many times has it been called retalliation fire? or in response to? or just generally the subtle creation of a race of people as terrorists.

    Possibly these guys belive it, [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=-1]Michele Steinberg and Hussein Askary. Here is their article- http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2949idf_qaeda.html

    Some circumstancial evidence perhaps? http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL03139119

    This is just a strange picture with a Hamas Militia with a star of david. [/SIZE][/FONT][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/MADELE%7E1/LOKALA%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-13.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/MADELE%7E1/LOKALA%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-12.jpg[/IMG]


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    #67
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    How many times has it been called retalliation fire? or in response to? or just generally the subtle creation of a race of people as terrorists.
    No intelligent person believes the Palestinians are a race of terrorists. No intelligent person believes that the actions of a small part or individuals of a race are representative of the entire race.
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Possibly these guys belive it, [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=-1]Michele Steinberg and Hussein Askary. Here is their article- http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2949idf_qaeda.html

    Some circumstancial evidence perhaps? http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL03139119
    Wow the NWO is covering that up well.
    Must be great controlling the media.

    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    This is just a strange picture with a Hamas Militia with a star of david.
    Got any context on this picture?


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    #68
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    No intelligent person believes the Palestinians are a race of terrorists. No intelligent person believes that the actions of a small part or individuals of a race are representative of the entire race.

    Wow the NWO is covering that up well.
    Must be great controlling the media.


    Got any context on this picture?

    I was at the Ireland v England game in the 90's at Landsdowne Rd in the 90's. I was only a kid then but after that game and the nazi hooligans involved I hated all things English for a while, because of the actions of a few, obviously not any more. Now imagine if you will you just found out your brother/sister/child, perhaps your whole family just got gunned down by a fighter plane in the street, had dodgy neighbours apparently. Forget about Jews, say by aliens, intelligent or not, your gonna hate aliens for a long time.

    Are you suggesting it woudld be somehow difficult to control the media?

    No context on the pic, dont even know if it real.


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    #69
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    I was at the Ireland v England game in the 90's at Landsdowne Rd in the 90's. I was only a kid then but after that game and the nazi hooligans involved I hated all things English for a while, because of the actions of a few, obviously not any more. Now imagine if you will you just found out your brother/sister/child, perhaps your whole family just got gunned down by a fighter plane in the street, had dodgy neighbours apparently. Forget about Jews, say by aliens, intelligent or not, your gonna hate aliens for a long time.
    Or maybe just the alien who killed my family, unless of course they are a hivemind race then it's a different matter. Also piontless hypothetical situations.
    So you honestly believed that all English people culture and history was hooliganism? I doubt it.
    You suggested that the Palestinians where being made out to be a terrorist race. By who exactly and to who?
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Are you suggesting it woudld be somehow difficult to control the media?
    Yes it would be. Do you believe that it is controlled? If so by who and what evidence leads you to this conclusion?
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    No context on the pic, dont even know if it real.
    So why post it as evidence?
    It's very misleading and intellectually dishonest.


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    #70
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    Or maybe just the alien who killed my family, unless of course they are a hivemind race then it's a different matter. Also piontless hypothetical situations.
    So you honestly believed that all English people culture and history was hooliganism? I doubt it.
    You suggested that the Palestinians where being made out to be a terrorist race. By who exactly and to who?

    Yes it would be. Do you believe that it is controlled? If so by who and what evidence leads you to this conclusion?


    So why post it as evidence?
    It's very misleading and intellectually dishonest.

    Not hypothetical, and therefore not pointless if I replace you with an innocent Palestinian, and the alien with IDF forces. Many innocents have lost innocent family members in the last few days. Human nature dictates revenge in such tragedy, the suicide bombers of tomorrow. Hamas ideology is no better, probably worse, but is natural progression that extremists come to the fore, and are created under extreme oppression and injustice.


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    #71
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Not hypothetical, and therefore not pointless if I replace you with an innocent Palestinian, and the alien with IDF forces. Many innocents have lost innocent family members in the last few days. Human nature dictates revenge in such tragedy, the suicide bombers of tomorrow. Hamas ideology is no better, probably worse, but is natural progression that extremists come to the fore, and are created under extreme oppression and injustice.
    Human Nature does not dictate revenge in tragedy. I'd really wish people will stop using oversimplified absolutes.
    I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
    I'm saying it's a stupid reason to hate an entire race.
    An even worse one to kill people who had nothing to do with your loved ones death.
    And it certainly does justify any acts of violence. And something I would like governments (like Hamas) to rise above.

    But how about you answer my questions?
    Do you believe the media is being controled and what evidence lead you to this conclusion?
    Who are trying to make Palestinians out to be a terrorist race and to whom is it directed?


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    #72
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    the Zionists are doin a pretty good job of painting the Palestinians/Arabs as terrorists, it is directd at thewest so that we fel sympathy for Israel and its Poor Me attitude


    of course themedia is being controlled, imagine what fair and unbiased reporting of the situation would look like, now compare that to whay you are seing on Sky

    also is it wrong of me to dislike nation states that sponsor terrorism

    isnt that what the WaronTerror is supposed to be about

    oh yeah, not the states that we sponsor that sponsor terrorists, right


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    #73
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    the Zionists are doin a pretty good job of painting the Palestinians/Arabs as terrorists, it is directd at thewest so that we fel sympathy for Israel and its Poor Me attitude
    You're joking right?
    I take it then that the protests against the Israeli attacks being planned on the very site are in sympathy for Israel.
    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    of course themedia is being controlled, imagine what fair and unbiased reporting of the situation would look like, now compare that to whay you are seing on Sky
    **** reporting does not imply a conspiracy. Very few people use Sky news as a primary news source anyway.
    And if they control the media (something resembling evidence would be nice) why aren't they covering these latest attacks up?
    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    also is it wrong of me to dislike nation states that sponsor terrorism
    No. But disliking a race of people because of imagined conspiracies by said nation is wrong.
    Not all Jews agree with the Israeli government.
    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    isnt that what the WaronTerror is supposed to be about

    oh yeah, not the states that we sponsor that sponsor terrorists, right
    Holy **** the world isn't black and white!? :eek:


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    #74
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    Human Nature does not dictate revenge in tragedy. I'd really wish people will stop using oversimplified absolutes.
    I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
    I'm saying it's a stupid reason to hate an entire race.
    An even worse one to kill people who had nothing to do with your loved ones death.
    And it certainly does justify any acts of violence. And something I would like governments (like Hamas) to rise above.

    But how about you answer my questions?
    Do you believe the media is being controled and what evidence lead you to this conclusion?
    Who are trying to make Palestinians out to be a terrorist race and to whom is it directed?

    is your question who are the powerful figures in the media world? goes back to when the Rothschilds purchased Reuters of England adn the main news agencies in France and Germany pre 1914, they haven't got much press since then. obviously it is controlled, do you mean engineered with an agenda?

    Mainstream western media in general. Islam is not a race, and while not all arabs are terrorists, all terrorists seem to be moslem.

    How exactly would they cover it up?


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    #75
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    is your question who are the powerful figures in the media world? goes back to when the Rothschilds purchased Reuters of England adn the main news agencies in France and Germany pre 1914, they haven't got much press since then. obviously it is controlled, do you mean engineered with an agenda?
    Any evidence of continued control? As in stories deliberately changed to support the NWO?
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Mainstream western media in general. Islam is not a race, and while not all arabs are terrorists, all terrorists seem to be moslem.
    Except for the IRA and the Chechens in Russia or the Colombians. And when they identify as group as opposed to just Muslims. Oh and all the state sponsored stuff like Israel. But hey that's obviously oversimplified enough.
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    another silly anecdote, but I was in Supermacs today. There was an indian security guy on, wouldnät let some chap up to use the bathroom, so he starts calling him "Al Qaeda". Why do you think that happened? I have some idiot friends who get nervous on a flight if there is an arab on board. Why do Irish people fear muslims when they have never had a conversation with one even?
    Because some people are stupid and believe their prejudices to be fact.
    It's probably from a lack of information than the NWO or whatever trying to paint arabs (or people with brown skin) as terrorists. I'd wager that these people who are nervous on planes don't purposely keep up with international events.
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    How exactly would they cover it up?
    By not reporting it? By playing down the Palestinian casualties? By not reporting the Palestinian and Hamas's statements? By not reporting the UN Secretary General condemnation of Israel? By not reporting the protests against Israel?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7804051.stm


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    #76
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    ok King Mob, please answer this, keeping to one side your opinion on the right to a Jewish state to one side, whatever it may be. The Israeli response was justified because...


    The positive outcomes arising shall be...


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    #77
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    chechens are islamic, colombian terrorists? literally yes I guess but not referenced as such, and not global. IRA ? haven't seen them in the news much since sept 11th.


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    #78
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    ok King Mob, please answer this, keeping to one side your opinion on the right to a Jewish state to one side, whatever it may be. The Israeli response was justified because...


    The positive outcomes arising shall be...

    At what point did I say the Israeli response was justified?
    Or that there would be any other outcome than pissing off Palestinians?

    I've said several times that it is a complex situation and both sides are guilty of some fairly bad ****.
    I'm still waiting to hear the conspiracy.
    No cover up or nothing.


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    #79
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    chechens are islamic
    Really? Thought they were just separatists. May look into it.
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    colombian terrorists? literally yes I guess but not referenced as such, and not global.
    Yea they referenced as such. Why would it matter if they're global or not.
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    IRA ? haven't seen them in the news much since sept 11th.
    Cept when then declared an end to their armed campaign which had kinda died off long before 9/11.
    But hey if the news isn't reporting them noone cares or remembers them right?

    Usually when someone say "all terrorists and Muslims" they're not exactly informed on the subject.


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    #80
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    Really? Thought they were just separatists. May look into it.

    Yea they referenced as such. Why would it matter if they're global or not.


    Cept when then declared an end to their armed campaign which had kinda died off long before 9/11.
    But hey if the news isn't reporting them noone cares or remembers them right?

    Usually when someone say "all terrorists and Muslims" they're not exactly informed on the subject.

    yeah, the Caucusses is where orthodox Christianity meets the middle east.

    Because if they are not global they are not a threat to your average american, therefore we need not be afraid.


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    #81
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    yeah, the Caucusses is where orthodox Christianity meets the middle east.

    Because if they are not global they are not a threat to your average american, therefore we need not be afraid.
    Well I'm not American. Nor do I need to be "afraid" of something to know it exists.
    And I seem to remember something about the IRA training Colombian Terrorists. Must be the Muslim IRA.

    Still waiting to hear the conspiracy theory by the way.


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    #82
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    I'm not informed on the subject, or any subject for that matter. But I have opinions as anyone else, justified or not equally valid. But I have a right to vote, as most Americans do. And if they have been spoon fed propoganda (subtle or not) by the blatantly zionist media in the US, while they may not be "informed" on the subject they have technically been informed, and opinions have been formed by the audience which will influence future policy int the region.


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    #83
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    I'm not informed on the subject, or any subject for that matter. But I have opinions as anyone else, justified or not equally valid. But I have a right to vote, as most Americans do. And if they have been spoon fed propoganda (subtle or not) by the blatantly zionist media in the US, while they may not be "informed" on the subject they have technically been informed, and opinions have been formed by the audience which will influence future policy int the region.
    Care to explain why the "Blatantly zionist media" is reporting these attacks then? Or that the information is freely available on the internet, gory history and all?
    Maybe instead of asking to be spoon fed information about the world and take ten minute to browse the site of a decent news agency like BBC or Reuters or at a stretch Al Jazeera?


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    #84
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    At what point did I say the Israeli response was justified?
    Or that there would be any other outcome than pissing off Palestinians?

    I've said several times that it is a complex situation and both sides are guilty of some fairly bad ****.
    I'm still waiting to hear the conspiracy.
    No cover up or nothing.


    Okay, both sides are guilty? can you give me one mainstream US article questioning America's support in the region? perhaps even to suggest that they may be on the wrong side?

    This should be easier, a mainstream article indicating that that the invasion of Iraq best served Israel and not US interests


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    #85
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Okay, both sides are guilty? can you give me one mainstream US article questioning America's support in the region? perhaps even to suggest that they may be on the wrong side?

    This should be easier, a mainstream article indicating that that the invasion of Iraq best served Israel and not US interests
    That would be an opinion piece not actual news. And despite my best efforts I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of opinion pieces regarding the Iraq war.
    I believe there is a fellow on MSNBC who has a few choice words on the matter.
    Besides even if I did point to such an article what would it prove? That someone didn't agree with US foreign policy?

    But maybe you can provide an article or something in which the facts had been deliberately changed or withheld for the purpose of aiding a NWO?


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    #86
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    Care to explain why the "Blatantly zionist media" is reporting these attacks then? Or that the information is freely available on the internet, gory history and all?
    Maybe instead of asking to be spoon fed information about the world and take ten minute to browse the site of a decent news agency like BBC or Reuters or at a stretch Al Jazeera?


    What harm can it do? for most westerners at least, Palestine is so far removed from their own reality that it will all be forgotten soon enough, like Libya. Flavour of the months now for liberals etc but no one really cares. World leaders of import will never speak out against Israel, they'll condemn attacks, or regret the actions, or encourage caution or some ****, but never fullón condmenation.


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    #87
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    That would be an opinion piece not actual news. And despite my best efforts I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of opinion pieces regarding the Iraq war.
    I believe there is a fellow on MSNBC who has a few choice words on the matter.

    haha, yaeh and I studied journalism, well it should be actual news if this opinion piece does exist.


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    #88
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    What harm can it do? for most westerners at least, Palestine is so far removed from their own reality that it will all be forgotten soon enough, like Libya. Flavour of the months now for liberals etc but no one really cares. World leaders of import will never speak out against Israel, they'll condemn attacks, or regret the actions, or encourage caution or some ****, but never fullón condmenation.

    BBC wrote:
    UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has called for an immediate ceasefire and condemned both Israel and Hamas.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7804051.stm
    There's a video of him giving a Full on condemnation there.


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    #89
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    haha, yaeh and I studied journalism, well it should be actual news if this opinion piece does exist.
    Then you should know the difference between an opinion piece and presenting the facts. It's the difference between opinion and fact.

    And I studied philosophy, whats your point?


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    #90
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7804051.stm
    There's a video of him giving a Full on condemnation there.

    Nice try, but I specifically said US


    Here is More condemnation from the UN that I posted earlier http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=29422&Cr=palestin&Cr1=


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    #91
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    Then you should know the difference between an opinion piece and presenting the facts. It's the difference between opinion and fact.

    And I studied philosophy, whats your point?

    That I should have known.


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