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Welcome to World War 3

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    #122
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    Diogenes wrote: »
    So lets be clear on this paradox, Hamas has launched dozens of missiles with a poor death toil, Isreali has launched a similar amount of rockets with, depressingly, a much larger death toil.

    So essentially your argument is that the Palestinians are the wronged party because they broke the cease fire, their technology was inferior, and were related by a better armed foe. By your logic a man with a knife attacking bruce lee, shouldn't be held accountable for his actions.

    If Hamas had effective weapons technology they use it. And they'd be happy iif an they could launch a barrage of rockets and kill thousands of people.

    If israeli decided that Hamas' rocket attacks were a big jape, and ignored them

    A) Israeli Citizens would deal with random rocket attacks, which are so much fun.

    B) Hamas would get the range of Israeli houses.

    C) Hamas would improve rocket design.


    Now I'm not saying I agree with Israeli policy, but if you really thing people should endure sustained rocket attacks for days, and then get told "hey could be worse you could get killed by a folding couch" is just absurd.

    Suggesting that Hamas has not place in the blame of this.

    Oh and MC suggesting that the situation needs to be simplified, is just ignorant. Your, well documented racism is on display again.

    Lets be clear on this, the ceasefire was expired. Let us also be clear on this, there was provovation from the Israeli side. Also, I am well aware of how evil hamas ideology and actions are, I make no excuses. But I challenge everyone out there who considers themselves unbiased, and on the side of rational and justice in a single, simple post if they truly consider that there is equal wrong on both sides. To briefly mention what the Israeli's are doing wrong and however partially it is that the Palestinian's are justified in their actions.


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    #123
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Lets be clear on this, the ceasefire was expired.

    So the first party to break the cease fire is absolved of all responsibilty?
    Let us also be clear on this, there was provovation from the Israeli side.

    Such as?
    Also, I am well aware of how evil hamas ideology and actions are, I make no excuses. But I challenge everyone out there who considers themselves unbiased,

    You mean aside from excuses like pointing out more people are killed by folding couches than hamas rockets? Right?
    and on the side of rational and justice in a single, simple post if they truly consider that there is equal wrong on both sides. To briefly mention what the Israeli's are doing wrong and however partially it is that the Palestinian's are justified in their actions.

    Yeah because that works.

    Look not being funny here, but the only way we came close to sorting out this mess of an Island and our own conflict, is by unilaterally saying neither side had a greater right to commit terrorism, and both sides had to accept that some form of compromise, which would include, for example, accepting that murdering terrorists on both sides would be released. We stood up and took it, everyone did.

    How you can claim that an organisation with lauds and rewards the families of suicide bombers who kill dozens of innocent people on bus is on the side of rationality and justice?


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    #124
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    the relevance of one point to the other is sketchy at best

    Hardly, you yourself have questioned the Hollywood studios because they are run by Jews (Or to use your and David Ickes euphemism "Lizards").

    How is pointing out that a website that promotes questionable and dubious beliefs any different from claiming that a news source is unreliable because it run by jews?


    also just because you dont understand 'free energy' we're supposed to dismiss the entire concept.

    No I'm just familiar with a little thing called the 2nd law of thermodynamics


    Physics is a bitch ain't it.


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    #125
    starn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭starn


    Mahatma coat wrote: »

    also just because you dont understand 'free energy' we're supposed to dismiss the entire concept.

    Im sory Ive just spotted this now. This is a absoluty ridiculose statment. Can you please qualify it by listing your professional qulifications in Physics. Mathmamatical science or Engineering

    I hold one degree in Applied Physics and am currently completing my second in Geology and I know that all this free energy baloney is a crock. It violates a couple of very well established physical laws.

    But if youve picked up some groundbreaking insight bumming around Oz and woking on your farm. That no one else in the established scientific community has missed, can you please enlightan us all, and explain how Free Energy can be anything more then a load of ****

    Im sorry but youve just shown up how guilible and misinformed you really are. Or is it all down to a distrust of "Jewish Sience"


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    #126
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    starn wrote: »
    Im sory Ive just spotted this now. This is a absoluty ridiculose statment. Can you please qualify it by listing your professional qulifications in Physics. Mathmamatical science or Engineering

    I hold one degree in Applied Physics and am currently completing my second in Geology and I know that all this free energy baloney is a crock. It violates a couple of very well established physical laws.

    But if youve picked up some groundbreaking insight bumming around Oz and woking on your farm. That no one else in the established scientific community has missed, can you please enlightan us all, and explain how Free Energy can be anything more then a load of ****

    Im sorry but youve just shown up how guilible and misinformed you really are. Or is it all down to a distrust of "Jewish Sience"

    Could still be a very very remote possibility though


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    #127
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    Could still be a very very remote possibility though
    No, no it's not. It's impossible.


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    #128
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    I'm not trying by to single out the BBC but here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1101744/Stephen-Glover-Pontificating-Mr-Peston-self-indulgent-bloggers-BBC-stop-putting-opinion-facts.html - My point was that have you ever seen orthodox jews quoted in any news article on the BBC?
    What exactly are you getting at? Why won't the BBC quote Othodox Jews exactly?
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    An out of court settlement? must try harder I feel.
    So they apologised why? It was covered up why?
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    It would be impossible to cover up the attacks. The just have to semi-legitimise them, which is what is happening.
    So even though they control the entire media it's impossible? How exactly is it being semi-legitimised?

    So can you actually supply any evidence to show the media is controlled?


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    #129
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    King Mob wrote: »
    No, no it's not. It's impossible.

    It is totally incorrect to say that it is 100% impossible, our knowledge of the universe is incomplete, it could be possible.


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    #130
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    It is totally incorrect to say that it is 100% impossible, our knowledge of the universe is incomplete, it could be possible.
    It is been proven to be impossible.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics
    It's a law of physics.
    You cannot get energy from nothing.


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    #131
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    its proven but it can still be falsified, that's scientific method


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    #132
    Kernel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    In the true spirit of conspiracy theories forum, here's a youtube link which explains it all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo

    Happy New Year! :)


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    #133
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    its proven but it can still be falsified, that's scientific method
    It's proven beyond reasonable doubt. It's reasonable to assume that random crack pots haven't turned physics on it's head in their garage.


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    #134
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    King Mob wrote: »
    It's proven beyond reasonable doubt. It's reasonable to assume that random crack pots haven't turned physics on it's head in their garage.

    well maybe they have turned physics on it's head. Steorn have a panel of 21 scientists reviewing their findings. All this brouhaha is rather pointless now for them, why go to such lengths.


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    #135
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    well maybe they have turned physics on it's head. Steorn have a panel of 21 scientists reviewing their findings. All this brouhaha is rather pointless now for them, why go to such lengths.
    A car can also spontaneously turn into an elephant. However it's very very very unlikely. Unlikely enough to be called impossible.
    Steorn have also yet to produce any evidence to verify their claims. They aren't the first to claim they have a free energy machine either.


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    #136
    starn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭starn


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    It is totally incorrect to say that it is 100% impossible, our knowledge of the universe is incomplete, it could be possible.

    Thats true. Its not impossible just very very very improbable. Likewise its possible that you could wake up as a lion and that everyone else on the planet also wakes up and discovers that they have also been changed into lions. Its possible just like a perpetual motin machine, but very improbable.

    For a free energy machine to exsist. It would mean that almost all the established physicals laws are wrong.

    Can I ask where exactly are you comng from this argument form. Do you have a scientific background. Do you understand the therioes involved. Do you pocess the mathmathical skills required to interpert the laws and therioes in the real world. Or so you just belive everything you read on the internet.

    A free energy or perpetual motion machine is bunk, plane and simple. Unless of course you can explain otherwise.


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    #137
    starn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭starn


    King Mob wrote: »
    Steorn have also yet to produce any evidence to verify their claims. They aren't the first to claim they have a free energy machine either.

    Because Steron are more likely then not a marketing company. They have never been able to give a working indepentaly verafible demonstation of the technology. Because they cant.
    Its Bunk.


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    #138
    BravoSierra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 84 ✭✭BravoSierra


    Val Kilmer found the chemical formulae for a hydrogen based free energy solution in The Saint so it must be true.


  • Options
    #139
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    dudes, seriously, I'll let you in on a little secret, 2010, you're going to see a revelation from Steorn


  • Options
    #140
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    dudes, seriously, I'll let you in on a little secret, 2010, you're going to see a revelation from Steorn


  • Options
    #141
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    dudes, seriously, I'll let you in on a little secret, 2010, you're going to see a revelation from Steorn
    Cool, have any proof what so ever that they've defied the laws of physics?


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    #142
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    Diogenes wrote: »
    So the first party to break the cease fire is absolved of all responsibilty?

    Again. The cease fire was expired.

    Diogenes wrote: »
    Such as?
    Take your pick, but please read some of it.

    http://www.btselem.org/english/List_of_Topics.asp
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0505/S00427.htm
    http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=162581

    Diogenes wrote: »
    You mean aside from excuses like pointing out more people are killed by folding couches than hamas rockets? Right?

    It was to demonstrate the dispraportionate response.
    Diogenes wrote: »
    Yeah because that works.

    Look not being funny here, but the only way we came close to sorting out this mess of an Island and our own conflict, is by unilaterally saying neither side had a greater right to commit terrorism, and both sides had to accept that some form of compromise, which would include, for example, accepting that murdering terrorists on both sides would be released. We stood up and took it, everyone did.

    How you can claim that an organisation with lauds and rewards the families of suicide bombers who kill dozens of innocent people on bus is on the side of rationality and justice?

    I didn't. I claimed the like of yourself and King Mob who claim impartiality, objectivity and common sense tend not to practice what you preach, meaning if there came about an anti_Palestinian post I cannot imagine you defend the Palestinian position or people.


  • Options
    #143
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    What exactly are you getting at? Why won't the BBC quote Othodox Jews exactly?
    That was my question.
    King Mob wrote: »
    So they apologised why? It was covered up why?
    Their smear was proven false.
    King Mob wrote: »
    So even though they control the entire media it's impossible? How exactly is it being semi-legitimised?

    who said the entire media?
    King Mob wrote: »
    So can you actually supply any evidence to show the media is controlled?
    Read the interpal article again as an subtle wxample.


  • Options
    #144
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »

    So can you actually supply any evidence to show the media is controlled?

    This is merely one example from a Jewish Daily of Sam Zell, Chairman and CEO of Tribune Group. http://www.forward.com/articles/billionaire-boychiks-battle-for-media-empire/

    "Still, Zell has made it clear that he does have an interest in the things his new media properties cover. In the interview last week, he said that his favorite newspaper columnists are Charles Krauthammer, Thomas Friedman and David Brooks, all of whom are Jewish and two of whom write frequently and sympathetically about Israel.

    Zell himself is a major donor to causes in the Middle East. His donations include a $3.1 million donation to the Herzliya Interdisciplinary Center in Israel and separate donations to the Israel Center for Social and Economic Progress, a right-wing Israeli think tank. In the United States, he has given major gifts to such Jewish causes as the American Jewish Committee and a Chicago Jewish day school named after his father.



    All this is on top of his political donations, which have gone mostly to Republican candidates.


    Siegel, the rabbi at Zell’s synagogue, said that Zell is a “committed Zionist” and a “generous supporter of Israel,” along with “a member in good standing” of the synagogue who “comes on the holidays often.”
    Among media watchers, this has been fodder for conversation.


    Ken Reich, a former Los Angeles Times reporter who operates a blog about the paper, said he assumes that Zell will shape the policy of his papers to some degree.


    “If he cares about the State of Israel, he won’t want his newspaper to be out there chipping away at Israeli interests,” said Reich, who reported mostly on politics during his 39 years at the Times."


  • Options
    #145
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Again. The cease fire was expired.

    Again. Because the cease fire is expired is it acceptable to be the first one to breach it.
    Take your pick, but please read some of it.

    http://www.btselem.org/english/List_of_Topics.asp
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0505/S00427.htm
    http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=162581

    So to be clear, Israeli, after the cease fire is broken, by Hamas, engage in a humanitarian act opening the border crossings, and they're the ones in the wrong?

    It was to demonstrate the dispraportionate response.

    Ah so you're not excusing Hamas with your folding chair analogy you're just, what justifying it?

    Heres another metaphor for you, suppose a guy is trying to run you over, or shoot you, he just happens to be a very bad driver, or a poor shot. Does that quality of his effort, excuse his intent?

    Hamas has launched dozens of rockets at Israeli settlements to little effect, Israeli has done similar to Hamas encampments to devastating consequences. Doesn't the intent matter matter to you?

    You're basically saying Israeli in the wrong because they're better at it.
    I didn't. I claimed the like of yourself and King Mob who claim impartiality, objectivity and common sense tend not to practice what you preach, meaning if there came about an anti_Palestinian post I cannot imagine you defend the Palestinian position or people.

    A close friend of my wife is missing a chunk out of her leg from an Israeli sniper, she was guiding a group of children to shelter during the 2nd Infadia. A very dear friend of mine worked as human shield during the olive picking. During the start of the 2nd infadia, I spent extensive time at the sit in at the Israeli embassy in Dublin.

    In short, I doubt theres any one else on this forum who can say they've gotten homemade baklava outside the Israeli embassy in ballsbridge on a cold march night in 2002 from Palestinian immigrants, aside from me.

    The OP is clearly following his own religious agenda, and one of our mods isn't so much a friend of the Palestinian cause so much as he is horrendously anti semitic, so I am playing devils advocate, because it's important, indeed, vital, for both sides to see the others position otherwise, there will be no progress.


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    #146
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Again. Because the cease fire is expired is it acceptable to be the first one to breach it.

    "breach" really is the wrong choice of word here.

    Diogenes wrote: »
    So to be clear, Israeli, after the cease fire is broken, by Hamas, engage in a humanitarian act opening the border crossings, and they're the ones in the wrong?


    No. The are in the wrong for the human rights abuses meted out to the palestinian people. This was the gunpowder, the first hamas rocket was the spark.
    Diogenes wrote: »
    Ah so you're not excusing Hamas with your folding chair analogy you're just, what justifying it?

    I admit I was too nonchalant here. But the meaning was to highlight the disparity which remains regardless.
    Diogenes wrote: »
    Heres another metaphor for you, suppose a guy is trying to run you over, or shoot you, he just happens to be a very bad driver, or a poor shot. Does that quality of his effort, excuse his intent?
    In terms of the universal principles of justice, I would not expect or want this guy to recieve the death penalty for his actions, or the death penalty handed out to many who resembled him, including his children.
    Diogenes wrote: »
    Hamas has launched dozens of rockets at Israeli settlements to little effect, Israeli has done similar to Hamas encampments to devastating consequences. Doesn't the intent matter matter to you?
    Except it is not only "Hamas encampments". Doesn't humanity matter to you?
    Diogenes wrote: »
    You're basically saying Israeli in the wrong because they're better at it.
    Apologies if it comes across this way. To turn this on its head would be to say Israel are in the wrong because they actually are slaughtering innocent civilians; whereas Hamas are trying to. Both are fully aware of the consequences and impact of their actions from the outset. I seen this morning on an Israeli news program that there are more Israelis being treated for shock, rather than actual injuries.


    Diogenes wrote: »
    A close friend of my wife is missing a chunk out of her leg from an Israeli sniper, she was guiding a group of children to shelter during the 2nd Infadia. A very dear friend of mine worked as human shield during the olive picking. During the start of the 2nd infadia, I spent extensive time at the sit in at the Israeli embassy in Dublin.

    In short, I doubt theres any one else on this forum who can say they've gotten homemade baklava outside the Israeli embassy in ballsbridge on a cold march night in 2002 from Palestinian immigrants, aside from me.

    The OP is clearly following his own religious agenda, and one of our mods isn't so much a friend of the Palestinian cause so much as he is horrendously anti semitic, so I am playing devils advocate, because it's important, indeed, vital, for both sides to see the others position otherwise, there will be no progress.
    Respectaby, I take these particular points on board. & Happy New Year!


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    #147
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    That was my question.
    So then is it a blanket ban on Orthodox Jews all the time or is it just on this issue.
    I've never seen a Catholic or a Zoroastrian quoted on this matter either come to think of it. Gasp conspiracy!
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Their smear was proven false.
    Yes it was. Why wasn't it covered up by the Jewish controlled media then? Why did they report it?

    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    who said the entire media?
    Then which bit are controlled? Or are different ones controlled at different times when its seems to support your theory? And please back your stuff.

    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    Read the interpal article again as an subtle wxample.
    No it's not. There is absolutely nothing suspicious about it. Unless of course you're looking anything to back up your theory, you'd grasp at any straws.
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    I didn't. I claimed the like of yourself and King Mob who claim impartiality, objectivity and common sense tend not to practice what you preach, meaning if there came about an anti_Palestinian post I cannot imagine you defend the Palestinian position or people.
    I don't agree with either Hamas's or the Israeli's government's actions. And I can separate between a people's government and the people themselves, unlike you apparently. So it depends on what you mean by anti Palestinian? If it's anti Hamas then no I wouldn't defend them. If it's like "all Palestinians are terrorists" or some ridiculous conspiracy theory the yes I would defend them.

    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    This is merely one example from a Jewish Daily of Sam Zell, Chairman and CEO of Tribune Group. http://www.forward.com/articles/billionaire-boychiks-battle-for-media-empire/
    First off just because this man is a Jew it does not mean he's part of a global conspiracy. It's stupid and racist to accuse otherwise without some evidence.
    Second have you any proof that he has altered any facts in the name of the NWO or whatever? Or have you just assumed he will?


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    #148
    BravoSierra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 84 ✭✭BravoSierra


    An interesting speech...


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    #149
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    I don't agree with either Hamas's or the Israeli's government's actions. And I can separate between a people's government and the people themselves, unlike you apparently. So it depends on what you mean by anti Palestinian? If it's anti Hamas then no I wouldn't defend them. If it's like "all Palestinians are terrorists" or some ridiculous conspiracy theory the yes I would defend them.


    So on the fence then? So you believe neither side has any of the moral high ground at all? Both sides are equally at fault and equally justified in their responses?
    King Mob wrote: »
    First off just because this man is a Jew it does not mean he's part of a global conspiracy. It's stupid and racist to accuse otherwise without some evidence.
    Second have you any proof that he has altered any facts in the name of the NWO or whatever? Or have you just assumed he will?
    First of all I never mentioned this mans religion. He could just as easily be a Christian Zionist or an Atheist Zionist or whatever. He is referred to as a "committed Zionist" by his own rabbi. You tthink It is Stupid and racist to think that a "committed Zionist" would not have his media outlet(s) look upon the middle eastern question objectively.? I would think that is extremely naive to think otherwise .


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    #150
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    So on the fence then? So you believe neither side has any of the moral high ground at all? Both sides are equally at fault and equally justified in their responses?
    Yea because the entire situation is a dichotomy that can be easily expressed by either on the Israeli's or Palestinians side.
    I have stated several times that I believe it is a horribly complex situation. So no I'm not "on the fence." I believe that killing civilians is wrong regardless of the motivation. And both sides are very guilty of that.
    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    First of all I never mentioned this mans religion. He could just as easily be a Christian Zionist or an Atheist Zionist or whatever. He is referred to as a "committed Zionist" by his own rabbi. You tthink It is Stupid and racist to think that a "committed Zionist" would not have his media outlet(s) look upon the middle eastern question objectively.? I would think that is extremely naive to think otherwise .
    So then you have evidence of him altering the facts of a story to aid an Israeli conspiracy? Or have you just assumed he does?


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    #151
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-blagojevich-tribune-cooperatdec10,0,2227525.story


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