Pub Players At Jp Masters

The Al Lad · 07-05-2008 5:05pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

ok. Well then he's just a really bad general player. Imo of course. And who cares what I think anyway. You can look at any individual freezeout tournament in isolation and use it as "proof" of who is good and who is bad if you want. lol donkaments.

- The guy got a read
- Went with it
- Made the call
- Turned out to be good
- Won the hand
- Eliminated a player
- Got berrated

Did you not criticise me in a thread before for berrating players and here you are berrating him, albeit not to his face but he posts here so will read your criticism

*I'll wait for StrewelPeters ridic entry comment any time now*

LuckyLloyd · 07-05-2008 5:10pm

This post has been deleted.

JP Poker · 07-05-2008 5:16pm

I personally hate it when players (at all levels) look down on newer less experienced players. We all started somewhere!!

The simple fact is that players progress from home games to pub games to casino games as they gain more experience. There are some very good pub players as there are some very bad casino players, FACT!!

This Weeks main event was dominated by players who play in the kestrel with me which is a pub game.

1st Martin Doyle
3rd Chris Caffery
4th Graham Dunning
5th Damien Kavanagh
7th Emmett Gough
8th Robbie Hughes
13th John Farley
17th Murtagh Ward
18th Gerry Mahony
19th Phil Baker

Surely all 10 of these couldn't have all been lucky against some of Irelands best poker players.

Just maybe these so called donks have earned some overdue credit as decent players.

BigCityBanker · 07-05-2008 5:18pm

JP Poker wrote: »

19th Phil Baker

this guy is really bad. sure if he was anygood he would have made the money.

JP Poker · 07-05-2008 5:20pm

BigCityBanker wrote: »

this guy is really bad. sure if he was anygood he would have made the money.

19th got €1250

Mr Minraise · 07-05-2008 5:21pm

smurph wrote: »

placing chips in little bundles taking up the whole table.:D:D

LOL

BigCityBanker · 07-05-2008 5:22pm

JP Poker wrote: »

19th got €1250

ah he is still useless. he knows it himself :pac:

JP Poker · 07-05-2008 5:24pm

BigCityBanker wrote: »

ah he is still useless. he knows it himself :pac:

Your right there:D

YULETIRED · 07-05-2008 5:37pm

To me it's application and not just savvy that makes good players great. Why bring up this distinction anyway. Some people would consider Damo Kavnagh as a pub player, I think he is one of our top tournament players and hate to see him at my table, simlilar the bomber, masters etc. I think Jps games are a good breeding ground for poker players and I reckon you discount them at your peril.... having said that there are many many pub games around the place and a lot of these guys play for the crack, these fellows are the guys you want to play against and you should really adjust your game when playing them. If you are saying never bluff a bad player and you do in fact do this, how can you turn around and say he is bad, when you have just proven that anyone is capable of a bad play. See the irony there?

Books *
The trouble with books is they confuse you...I read Harrington on hold em and Harrington on Golf.. Now my problem is I play poker like Padraig and Golf like Dan.
I got dogged once in a poker tourny and I threw my last chips 250 yards with an excellent shoulder turn. In golf my mate chipped in from the bunker to dog me and cut back my 2 shot lead. Instead of utilising tilt control, I stuck my tongue out and tilted away the next 4 holes. He even Aced one of the holes to rub it in, I ran very badly that day. I blame those harrington fkrs.

spem4392 · 07-05-2008 5:46pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

- openlimp;
- openraise pots for more than 3x irrespective of stack to blind ratios or levels of activity;
- give very simple betting pattern information with actions preflop - i.e. don't balance their preflop range;
- bet for information;
- overvalue top pair;
- overvalue draws to flushes or straights;
- not understand position;
- not understand pot odds;
- not understand how to pot control;
- defending far too loose from the blinds;
- preferring to call rather than 3 - bet;
- have a poor awareness of stack sizes and how it should affect your decisions;
- be unable to plan hands and not be aware when an action is pot committing;
- fail to value bet;
- be overly concerned with tournament life in certain spots;
- be very poor at putting all of the elements of a hand together and making logical decisions. i.e. just play their own cards a lot and be unable to think beyond the first or second level;

Casino players also do the majority of above IMO

eagle eye · 07-05-2008 5:51pm

JP Poker wrote: »

I personally hate it when players (at all levels) look down on newer less experienced players. We all started somewhere!!

The simple fact is that players progress from home games to pub games to casino games as they gain more experience. There are some very good pub players as there are some very bad casino players, FACT!!

This Weeks main event was dominated by players who play in the kestrel with me which is a pub game.

1st Martin Doyle
3rd Chris Caffery
4th Graham Dunning
5th Damien Kavanagh
7th Emmett Gough
8th Robbie Hughes
13th John Farley
17th Murtagh Ward
18th Gerry Mahony
19th Phil Baker

Surely all 10 of these couldn't have all been lucky against some of Irelands best poker players.

Just maybe these so called donks have earned some overdue credit as decent players.

Hi Jp, I did not play there the weekend. From reports you did an excellent job as usual, and from someone who was online all weekend, I would like to thank Laura Lashes for here excellent reporting on the event. It was the best reporting I have seen by anybody on boards.
Now about the 'Pub players'. My comments in this thread relate to one particular player. This is the same player that Lloyd spoke about and the guy who knocked him out of the main event.
If you look at what I have posted, you will see that this particular player came on here and described how he played the hand. I explained that I thought he played it poorly and he came back with the Caro thing.
He has proven through his own comments that he is a poor player, and he has also proven that he will try and prove his point with a little bull$hit.
As regards all the other players in the tourney and pub players, its like a casino or anywhere else you go, there are some very good players but the majority are very poor.

LuckyLloyd · 07-05-2008 5:52pm

This post has been deleted.

Mr.Plough · 07-05-2008 5:53pm

This Weeks main event was dominated by players who play in the kestrel with me which is a pub game.

1st Martin Doyle
3rd Chris Caffery
4th Graham Dunning
5th Damien Kavanagh
7th Emmett Gough
8th Robbie Hughes
13th John Farley
17th Murtagh Ward
18th Gerry Mahony
19th Phil Baker

Any idea what % of the starting field could be considered "pub players"?

YULETIRED · 07-05-2008 5:54pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Hi Jp, I did not play there the weekend. From reports you did an excellent job as usual, and from someone who was online all weekend, I would like to thank Laura Lashes for here excellent reporting on the event. It was the best reporting I have seen by anybody on boards.
Now about the 'Pub players'. My comments in this thread relate to one particular player. This is the same player that Lloyd spoke about and the guy who knocked him out of the main event.
If you look at what I have posted, you will see that this particular player came on here and described how he played the hand. I explained that I thought he played it poorly and he came back with the Caro thing.
He has proven through his own comments that he is a poor player, and he has also proven that he will try and prove his point with a little bull$hit.
As regards all the other players in the tourney and pub players, its like a casino or anywhere else you go, there are some very good players but the majority are very poor.

Have you thought on the Caro thing, he might just be joking there....ie saying the reverse........He is a capable of a joke like that you know.

Mr.Plough · 07-05-2008 5:54pm

The Al Lad wrote: »

- The guy got a read
- Went with it
- Made the call
- Turned out to be good
- Won the hand
- Eliminated a player
- Got berrated

Did you not criticise me in a thread before for berrating players and here you are berrating him, albeit not to his face but he posts here so will read your criticism

*I'll wait for StrewelPeters ridic entry comment any time now*

lol It's already been established by himself and others that he didn't know what he was doing.

But he won the hand so he's the better player. Jerry Yang is owning the Ivey deathmatch as we speak..

Theresalwaysone · 07-05-2008 6:48pm

pffffffft Pub Players.

pffffffft Casino Players.

pffffffft Online Low stakes players?

Who is actually good?

cooker3 · 07-05-2008 6:52pm

I look upon pub players in the same way I would look upon your average contestant on deal or no deal.

The Al Lad · 07-05-2008 7:15pm

Mr.Plough wrote: »

lol It's already been established by himself and others that he didn't know what he was doing.

But he won the hand so he's the better player. Jerry Yang is owning the Ivey deathmatch as we speak..

.

MarkT1234 · 07-05-2008 7:47pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

ok. Well then he's just a really bad general player. Imo of course. And who cares what I think anyway. You can look at any individual freezeout tournament in isolation and use it as "proof" of who is good and who is bad if you want. lol donkaments.

Do you know what the funniest thing about all this?

Had a c-bet followed that flop...I'd have mucked the hand!

Theresalwaysone · 07-05-2008 7:56pm

MarkT1234 wrote: »

Do you know what the funniest thing about all this?

Had a c-bet followed that flop...I'd have mucked the hand!

What flop not containing a 3 would you have not mucked on?

If you would have mucked on a 777 board after calling pre flop you must have had Lloyd on a pair. If so, preflop is terrible.

Calling for set value was also retarded, calling 3bets for set value 100bb's deep is wrong and without even having seen the hh I doubt ye were anywhere near deep enough to be calling for set value.

Stop being stubborn, realise you played it poorly, learn from it and improve.

doke · 07-05-2008 8:05pm

JP Poker wrote: »

I personally hate it when players (at all levels) look down on newer less experienced players. We all started somewhere!!

The simple fact is that players progress from home games to pub games to casino games as they gain more experience. There are some very good pub players as there are some very bad casino players, FACT!!

This Weeks main event was dominated by players who play in the kestrel with me which is a pub game.

1st Martin Doyle
3rd Chris Caffery
4th Graham Dunning
5th Damien Kavanagh
7th Emmett Gough
8th Robbie Hughes
13th John Farley
17th Murtagh Ward
18th Gerry Mahony
19th Phil Baker

Surely all 10 of these couldn't have all been lucky against some of Irelands best poker players.

Just maybe these so called donks have earned some overdue credit as decent players.

Fair point. Damo is certainly the business and although he might play in a pub (as I do myself quite regularly), I would not consider him a "pub" player. I've seen Phil Baker and John Farley in the clubs, Phil in particular has some good results (IIRC he was third in a Sporting Emporium monthly game where I was second). Was also impressed by the play of Emmet and Murt, and Robbie pulled one of the best moves I've ever had pulled on me. But as a general rule, I'd say the standard of true "pub" players (players who play in pubs almost exclusively) is a little (but not a lot) lower than the average club player. But there are some terrible players in the clubs too, to be sure. Given the sheer number of so-called "pub" players in this tournament, it was always likely quite a few of them would go deep. A more interesting question perhaps is why nearly all the so called "pub" players came from one particular pub, the Kestrel. Does this mean that the Kestrel is where all the good pub players play and the players in the other pubs are donks?

I think at least part of the reason they did so well is they got a certain critical mass and with so many of them involved in the latter stages, all who knew each other's games much better than non-Kestrel players, they had an advantage. If, say, 20 of the last 40 had been Fitz regulars, or Sporting Emporium regs, or regs of another pub, then I think they'd have done better than expected late on too. I'm not saying there was necessarily collusion or chip dumpage or anything like that, but at different times it did almost feel like the Kestrel lads were playing almost as a team.

Glowingmind · 07-05-2008 8:05pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

- openlimp;
- openraise pots for more than 3x irrespective of stack to blind ratios or levels of activity;
- give very simple betting pattern information with actions preflop - i.e. don't balance their preflop range;
- bet for information;
- overvalue top pair;
- overvalue draws to flushes or straights;
- not understand position;
- not understand pot odds;
- not understand how to pot control;
- defending far too loose from the blinds;
- preferring to call rather than 3 - bet;
- have a poor awareness of stack sizes and how it should affect your decisions;
- be unable to plan hands and not be aware when an action is pot committing;
- fail to value bet;
- be overly concerned with tournament life in certain spots;
- be very poor at putting all of the elements of a hand together and making logical decisions. i.e. just play their own cards a lot and be unable to think beyond the first or second level;

I'm a little concerned at how many of those apply to me. Can you recommend a good coach? As long as it's not an internet player....... pfft maths......

Edit: Damn it, i had written a long serious reply to this and it went missing.
IT mostly involved - we're not all as good as we think we are and sholdn't dismiss others based on what player type we label them as.

Pulsar Eagle · 07-05-2008 8:11pm

StephenInsane wrote: »

My ex-girlfriends Dad, John, is exclusively a pub player, and he's the best player I've ever seen. He started off playing a lot of draw poker and is a big winner, (Up tens of thousands over the years), and he is just sublime at texas hold'em. He plays a lose aggressive style and he plays it like he's Phil Ivey!

There's a €100 freeze-out in a pub nearby to him, and he final tables EVERY TIME he plays. This is while drinking 8+ pints and generally just having the craic. I've seen him play a pub 2/4 cash game before, where a few young 'internet kids' were playing and he finished up well over two grand, and he was sitting out loads of hands to go to the bar and to run out to have a fag. At one stage he sat out 3 orbits (all the time being blinded) because he was having a chat with one of his mates out in the smoking area.

This guys a real life Irish Doyle Brunson! I'm always trying to get him to start an internet account or to play in a casino, but he tells me he has no interest, that he only plays for the social aspect. As well as this, despite him being 60, drinking every day and never doing any exercise, he's one of the strongest and most impressively built men I've ever met. He's only like 5'6 but he's built like the hulk! When I went on holidays with her family, we went to an amusement park where there was one of those machines where you have to hit a target on the ground with a mallet and try to make a piece of lead ring a bell. Loads of strong, fit, native guys and English tourists were giving it a go, but none of them could ring the bell. Well John (who was after a few pints) gave it a go, and not only did he ring the bell he actually sent the bell flying off!

I was like wow that's incredible! But John just shyed away from the limelight, same way he does when he's after a big poker score. Said it was nothing, just shrugged it off. They gave him this huge stuffed teddy-bear which John found very embarressing.

It sounds like he is your hero. But he dose sound like an amazing person alrite.

The Al Lad · 07-05-2008 8:19pm

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Stop being stubborn, realise you played it poorly, learn from it and improve.

Well said

doke wrote: »

Fair point. Damo is certainly the business and although he might play in a pub (as I do myself quite regularly), I would not consider him a "pub" player. I've seen Phil Baker and John Farley in the clubs, Phil in particular has some good results (IIRC he was third in a Sporting Emporium monthly game where I was second). Was also impressed by the play of Emmet and Murt, and Robbie pulled one of the best moves I've ever had pulled on me. But as a general rule, I'd say the standard of true "pub" players (players who play in pubs almost exclusively) is a little (but not a lot) lower than the average club player. But there are some terrible players in the clubs too, to be sure. Given the sheer number of so-called "pub" players in this tournament, it was always likely quite a few of them would go deep. A more interesting question perhaps is why nearly all the so called "pub" players came from one particular pub, the Kestrel. Does this mean that the Kestrel is where all the good pub players play and the players in the other pubs are donks?

They are 2 of the better players that play JP's games and are at the business end alot,

As for the Kestrel Dara it is probably one of the best pub games around.

€80 entry
6k starting stack
15 min blinds
Dealers on every table

Only thing is gets crapshooty towards the end because of the 1am closing time, but sure what tournament doesn't

Gets some good players EVERY WEEK

Damo Kavanagh
John Weafer
Matty Doyle
Emmet Gough
Thomas Nolan
Alan Swan
Paddy O'Neill
Don Fagan
Sean Fagan
Gerry Sinnott

just to name a few straight off the bat

menoscemo · 07-05-2008 8:21pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

ok. Well then he's just a really bad general player. Imo of course. And who cares what I think anyway. You can look at any individual freezeout tournament in isolation and use it as "proof" of who is good and who is bad if you want. lol donkaments.

I think what annoyed me was that just because you thought he played bad you automatically wrote him of as being a 'pub player' like that is the worst insult in poker, then it it turned out he isn't even a pub player. You realise how condescending that is to many pub players?
That's like pubist or something:)

menoscemo · 07-05-2008 8:22pm

The Al Lad wrote: »

Well said

They are 2 of the better players that play JP's games and are at the business end alot,

As for the Kestrel Dara it is probably one of the best pub games around.

€80 entry
6k starting stack
15 min blinds
Dealers on every table

Only thing is gets crapshooty towards the end because of the 1am closing time, but sure what tournament doesn't

Gets some good players EVERY WEEK

Damo Kavanagh
John Weafer
Matty Doyle
Emmet Gough
Thomas Nolan
Alan Swan
Paddy O'Neill
Don Fagan
Sean Fagan
Gerry Sinnott

just to name a few straight off the bat

what about me?

The Al Lad · 07-05-2008 8:24pm

menoscemo wrote: »

I think what annoyed me was that just because you thought he played bad you automatically wrote him of as being a 'pub player' like that is the worst insult in poker, then it it turned out he isn't even a pub player. You realise how condescending that is to many pub players?
That's like pubist or something:)

It is

Oh and I forgot to add you to my list of good kestrel players

Apologies

Edit. Posting at the same time lol

Ste05 · 07-05-2008 8:25pm

menoscemo wrote: »

You realise how condescending that is to many pub players?

Anyone who reads the boards Poker forum is not a "Pub player"....

Theresalwaysone · 07-05-2008 8:25pm

The Al Lad wrote: »

Well said

They are 2 of the better players that play JP's games and are at the business end alot,

As for the Kestrel Dara it is probably one of the best pub games around.

€80 entry
6k starting stack
15 min blinds
Dealers on every table

Only thing is gets crapshooty towards the end because of the 1am closing time, but sure what tournament doesn't

Gets some good players EVERY WEEK

Damo Kavanagh
John Weafer
Matty Doyle
Emmet Gough
Thomas Nolan
Alan Swan
Paddy O'Neill
Don Fagan
Sean Fagan
Gerry Sinnott

just to name a few straight off the bat

Why did ya qoute my post to that?

bantee · 07-05-2008 8:30pm

Just for the laugh factor, here is ocallagh's post from the "Level Zero" thread in January.
How I lol'd when I read it (hope you don't mind me digging it up, but so funny):D

there are 4 types of pub players

1) Paddy who owns a field but never puts anything on it.
His desire to deceive is greater than his desire to win. He'll limp with premium hands and slow play them against 4 players. He'll also triple barrell and show. He always seems to have a fresh pint of Smithwicks but has never been spotted at the bar.

2) John who recently welded a pringle tube to the back of his exhaust.
He attempts to win every 2nd pot. He'll do very well early on (when Paddy is not in the pot). He'll also show his bluffs. As the night goes on he'll get too drunk and a) get kicked out or b) move all his chips in with the back of his hand while holding a pint bottle of bulmers in the other.

3) Michael who has a backup pair of slippers and is often found down at the community hall.
He limp calls with 'picture cards', Ax and pairs. When he hits he prefers to just call, but if he's first to act he'll bet small, always slowly. He went to school with Paddy and silently hates it when Paddy successfully traps him.

4) Dave, who is recently married, has 2 kids and is using his 'Get out of Jail card' for the night.
He is probably the best player at the table but that doesn't matter because of the structure of the event. He gets knocked out by Ax all the time and reads boards.

Pub Players At Jp Masters

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