Pub Players At Jp Masters

vikarama

FOLLOWED MASTERS EVENT ALL W/END ,VERY WELL DONE LAURA BY THE WAY ,SOME POSTS BY PLAYERS IN EVENT REFERRING TO PUB PLAYERS AS INFERIOR OR DONKS AS MAJORITY OF FIELD PROBABLY STARTED
IN PUBS IN SMALL GAMES 2O TO 50 BUYINS AND CONTINUE TO PLAY THESE GAMES THINK A LITTLE BIT BEFORE MAKING CASUAL REFERENCES. YOURS TRULY PUB PLAYER ,ON OCCASION BIGGER EVENTS

shoutman

That hurts to read, caps lock off in future please....

Ste05

What?? My eyes are hurting from reading all the CAPS.

But do you not agree that pub players on average are pretty terrible at Poker?? I assume not. There may be a few decent ones splattered around but in general Pub players are bad, just like in general, in a Tournament, most of the players are pretty bad, don't really see the problem here?? Would you class an Average Pub player as better then an average Club player??

BTW, I think nearly all are pretty bad, cos (a) they are "Live" players and (b) are tournament players.

[oh yeah, I managed to open up the whole Live v Online and Tournament v Cash arguments both at the same time, I wonder how long before I have to lock the thread... it's a joke people!!]

Macspower

club player/pub player no difference.... both equal standard but should be encouraged not discouraged

Ollieboy

vikarama wrote: »

FOLLOWED MASTERS EVENT ALL W/END ,VERY WELL DONE LAURA BY THE WAY ,SOME POSTS BY PLAYERS IN EVENT REFERRING TO PUB PLAYERS AS INFERIOR OR DONKS AS MAJORITY OF FIELD PROBABLY STARTED
IN PUBS IN SMALL GAMES 2O TO 50 BUYINS AND CONTINUE TO PLAY THESE GAMES THINK A LITTLE BIT BEFORE MAKING CASUAL REFERENCES. YOURS TRULY PUB PLAYER ,ON OCCASION BIGGER EVENTS

I think your right, a bit more respect should be shown to all players. I'm not always great at this myself, but if better players are rude to the fish, they wont come back, so its in our interest to encourage the pub player to play the big events and donate to the better players. Pub players have to start somewhere and a lot of them will move to playing online and casino where they will improve even more over time.

lee_arama

A player's as good as they allow themselves to be given their environment. I hate pub play simpy because by the time the final tables come round you've got some yob twisted sitting next to you, talking to his buddies when it's his turn to act and of course snapping at everyone when they try and get him to focus.

Anyone playing longer than 5 years likely started in a casino too BTW. Or on 5-card draw which tends to attract a better sort of chappy...

5starpool

I heard a conversation between 2 pub players in the 150 side event on Monday. One was probably around 50, the other around 40. Tee older one explained to the other that he didn't push into a 3 bet preflop pot on the flop with AK on a 9 high boared as he had no fold equity. He had about 35k left, the pot was about 45k, and the other guy had millions of chips and been the reraiser preflop.

I nearly fell off my chair when I heard him use the prhase 'fold equity'.

The balance to the world of poker snobbery was restored only about 10 mins later when the same two lads were in a battle of the blinds. It was unraised preflop, and checked down. The FE guy from above showed Ks9s and I remarked that I was surprised he didn't bet the flop of As9c5s, and he replied that he had no fold equity. I said that he didn't really want fold equity in that spot, but he just replied that he had none. Stacks at this point were him, 40k, BB 210k or some madness, the pot size was 8k. I replied 'fair enough'.

Pub players ftw!!!

patmac

Pub players are great, good fun and play poker to the highest standard so please more respect ps I won 1k this week playing 2 pub tourneys.

Having played pub tourneys for the last 2 years the standard has risen but not that much.

eagle eye

Heres a very good example of a pub player who thinks he is good. He knows he is right all the time, he cannot be bluffed as Lloyd can tell you, and he even bluffs a lot but he bluffed the wrong guy in this pot.

MarkT1234 wrote: »

---

Hi Folks,

I'm the "pub player" who made the "bad" call that sent Lloyd to the rails and oh that a simple hand history such as the above should always be enough to class someone as a bad player.

Let me take you through the hand as I saw it. Chip leader at the table and with a looser image than I may normally like early in a tournament, I look down in mid-pos at 33. I out in a 2.5x (standard in my book) and Lloyd on the button 3 bets it. I have Lloyd down as TAG Solid but with my stack decide to call the re-raise for set value. Flop is 777 and I check. Lloyd quickly checks behind. Turn card is 4 and I check. Lloyd bets 2K into 3.3K pot. From the check on the flop, I think I may have the best hand but as AA - 10 10 may have checked that flop, I decide to find out where I'm at and quickly reraise to 6K. Now, Lloyds shove did indicate he was slow playing a big pair and so I went into the tank for 2 - 3 minutes and went through the hand again from start. I then took the time to look at Lloyd for ~30 - 40 seconds and he didn't look comfortable at all, in fact his breathing was very heavy. Based solely on this read I decided I had the best hand (versus AK, AQ) and made the call. I can't say I was certain but I went with my read. Sometimes it's not about the cards.

I think it was a very ballsy play on Lloyds part and I have a lot of respect for it.

eagle eye wrote: »

My personal opinion is that you played the hand horribly and still managed to win it with a donk call.
I don't know Lloyd or you and have never played with either of you, so my thoughts are based entirely on what has been posted in the relevant threads.

MarkT1234 wrote: »

Read Caro's book of tells...useful for donk calls

eagle eye wrote: »

Direct from Caro's book of tells

3. Noisy breathing. One of the most powerful tells in poker is noisy breathing. Listen for it. It means that the player usually holds a strong hand. Players who are bluffing generally try to control their breathing or don't breathe at all. Players who are weak do not breathe especially audibly. Ragged or heavy breathing (unless faked) almost always is a sure sign of a strong hand. Add that to your playbook, and fold often when you hear heavy breathing.

Ok, I admit it, I am really proud of this one.:D

StephenInsane

My ex-girlfriends Dad, John, is exclusively a pub player, and he's the best player I've ever seen. He started off playing a lot of draw poker and is a big winner, (Up tens of thousands over the years), and he is just sublime at texas hold'em. He plays a lose aggressive style and he plays it like he's Phil Ivey!

There's a €100 freeze-out in a pub nearby to him, and he final tables EVERY TIME he plays. This is while drinking 8+ pints and generally just having the craic. I've seen him play a pub 2/4 cash game before, where a few young 'internet kids' were playing and he finished up well over two grand, and he was sitting out loads of hands to go to the bar and to run out to have a fag. At one stage he sat out 3 orbits (all the time being blinded) because he was having a chat with one of his mates out in the smoking area.

This guys a real life Irish Doyle Brunson! I'm always trying to get him to start an internet account or to play in a casino, but he tells me he has no interest, that he only plays for the social aspect. As well as this, despite him being 60, drinking every day and never doing any exercise, he's one of the strongest and most impressively built men I've ever met. He's only like 5'6 but he's built like the hulk! When I went on holidays with her family, we went to an amusement park where there was one of those machines where you have to hit a target on the ground with a mallet and try to make a piece of lead ring a bell. Loads of strong, fit, native guys and English tourists were giving it a go, but none of them could ring the bell. Well John (who was after a few pints) gave it a go, and not only did he ring the bell he actually sent the bell flying off!

I was like wow that's incredible! But John just shyed away from the limelight, same way he does when he's after a big poker score. Said it was nothing, just shrugged it off. They gave him this huge stuffed teddy-bear which John found very embarressing.

mdwexford

This thread has potential to be comedy gold imo

Ste05

eagle eye, you lost me with that one?? Who's saying what now?? I assume you consider yourself a "pub player", wanna put some context on all that?? Or did I miss some thread that the OP was referring to and you also??

eagle eye

Ste05 wrote: »

eagle eye, you lost me with that one?? Who's saying what now?? I assume you consider yourself a "pub player", wanna put some context on all that?? Or did I miss some thread that the OP was referring to and you also??

It was all in the day one of the jp reports thread. Lloyd went out against this guy, and there was a chat about how he went out. I agreed with Lloyd that he made a bad move trying to bluff an average pub player. There was a reply from this 'pub player' and the quotes are what happened afterwards.

5starpool

Ste05 wrote: »

eagle eye, you lost me with that one?? Who's saying what now?? I assume you consider yourself a "pub player", wanna put some context on all that?? Or did I miss some thread that the OP was referring to and you also??

I think you misread his post.

My take on it is:

1. Lloyd getting knocked out. Lamented that he should never bluff pub player.
2. Said pub player posts his thoughts behind the hand and why he played it like that.
3. Eagle eye sys "lol you suck"
4. Pub player says "I read souls. Mike Caros book taught me how".
5. Eagle eye says "fool, here is Mike Caro saying the thing you said was a sign of weakness is a sign of strength. You are teh lucksack".
6. End of.

menoscemo

Yeah but I think it turns out he was not a 'pub player' at all.

I know loads of guys who play pub tournaments and casino's and Internet in fact.

For example are Bomber Nolan, Dave Masters, Damo Kavanagh etc all 'Pub Players'? Because they certainly play a large percentage of their poker in pubs. You can't go round slagging 'pub players' as if they are one generic, bad playing bunch. This forum reaks of bias.

Ste05

Ahhh I see now. I thought I was missing something alright...

eagle eye

5starpool wrote: »

I think you misread his post.

My take on it is:

1. Lloyd getting knocked out. Lamented that he should never bluff pub player.
2. Said pub player posts his thoughts behind the hand and why he played it like that.
3. Eagle eye sys "lol you suck"
4. Pub player says "I read souls. Mike Caros book taught me how".
5. Eagle eye says "fool, here is Mike Caro saying the thing you said was a sign of weakness is a sign of strength. You are teh lucksack".
6. End of.

6 out of 6 for 5starpool. Correctamundo on all streets

lee_arama

Ah this could, indeed, be a classic thread.
I wonder does this guy Mark play with Michael from the CIA often?

shoutman

StephenInsane wrote: »

My ex-girlfriends Dad, John, is exclusively a pub player, and he's the best player I've ever seen. He started off playing a lot of draw poker and is a big winner, (Up tens of thousands over the years), and he is just sublime at texas hold'em. He plays a lose aggressive style and he plays it like he's Phil Ivey!

There's a €100 freeze-out in a pub nearby to him, and he final tables EVERY TIME he plays. This is while drinking 8+ pints and generally just having the craic. I've seen him play a pub 2/4 cash game before, where a few young 'internet kids' were playing and he finished up well over two grand, and he was sitting out loads of hands to go to the bar and to run out to have a fag. At one stage he sat out 3 orbits (all the time being blinded) because he was having a chat with one of his mates out in the smoking area.

This guys a real life Irish Doyle Brunson! I'm always trying to get him to start an internet account or to play in a casino, but he tells me he has no interest, that he only plays for the social aspect. As well as this, despite him being 60, drinking every day and never doing any exercise, he's one of the strongest and most impressively built men I've ever met. He's only like 5'6 but he's built like the hulk! When I went on holidays with her family, we went to an amusement park where there was one of those machines where you have to hit a target on the ground with a mallet and try to make a piece of lead ring a bell. Loads of strong, fit, native guys and English tourists were giving it a go, but none of them could ring the bell. Well John (who was after a few pints) gave it a go, and not only did he ring the bell he actually sent the bell flying off!

I was like wow that's incredible! But John just shyed away from the limelight, same way he does when he's after a big poker score. Said it was nothing, just shrugged it off. They gave him this huge stuffed teddy-bear which John found very embarressing.

Is she your ex girlfriend because you are now going out with her father?

lee_arama

They do say 'the older the fiddle...' :eek:

Mr.Plough

lol mike caro

cuterob

shoutman wrote: »

Is she your ex girlfriend because you are now going out with her father?

.

or you are her father and are bigging yourself up??.. prob the former though lol

mdwexford

shoutman wrote: »

Is she your ex girlfriend because you are now going out with her father?

:D:D I was sensing some "man love" there somewhere alright

Ste05

shoutman wrote: »

Is she your ex girlfriend because you are now going out with her father?

LOL, actual laughter here... wp nh

ITT-Pat

Pot Value

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Mr.Plough

ITT-Pat wrote: »

Pot Value

The most misunderstood concept.

carfax

Ollieboy wrote: »

I think your right, a bit more respect should be shown to all players. I'm not always great at this myself, but if better players are rude to the fish, they wont come back, so its in our interest to encourage the pub player to play the big events and donate to the better players. Pub players have to start somewhere and a lot of them will move to playing online and casino where they will improve even more over time.

As always Ollie, you hit the nail on the head.....Any "player" (and I use that term loosely) that calls anyone at the poker table a donk IS THE DONK.

MoneySucks

So what are the biggest exploitable mistakes that "pub players" make?

ITT-Pat

MoneySucks wrote: »

So what are the biggest exploitable mistakes that "pub players" make?

most common is prob raising to see where they are

phantom_lord

shoutman wrote: »

Is she your ex girlfriend because you are now going out with her father?

A+

mocata

Surely everyone playing poker is on a learning curve?! Have none of you ever peered back to 5+ years ago and how you thought about poker then? If you know your well ahead of someone on the curve, wouldn't you want to play with them as often as possible.

Ste05

MoneySucks wrote: »

So what are the biggest exploitable mistakes that "pub players" make?

Generally everything they do is exploitable, it's hard to narrow it down to one thing. They call too lightly and don't get enough value from their big hands.

DeadParrot

Raising pre flop then check folding is another one.

Mr.Plough

Casino players v pub players hu4rollz

mocata

Is that not a recipe for an ideal opponent though Ste?

lee_arama

Not raising the Blinds off weak hands when they've strong hands... Won a few ton one night out in Mallow when HU: Guy didn't raise AK and let me in with 83off... 883 flop...

I check the flop and he bets. I check turn, he bets. I bet river and he pushes. The mind boggles mind you. Boggles.

Or the classic "I felt my Ace high was good".

Dearg81

So what are the biggest exploitable mistakes that "pub players" make?

Entering a pub tournament for starters.

What the hell is fold equity btw?

smurph

MoneySucks wrote: »

So what are the biggest exploitable mistakes that "pub players" make?

probably overplaying top pair, top kicker. (been there done that, worn the teeshirt, ask llyod:o:o)

Mainly focusing more on the cards they have, rather than thinking of their opponents range of cards.

placing chips in little bundles taking up the whole table.:D:D

To be honest, there is not much difference between so called "pub players" and Casino players, except maybe the pub players lack of experience playing deepstack tournaments with 1 hour clocks, and having dealers on every table.

mocata

One of my faves b4 calling an all in with paint/rag " The kings/Jacks/Queens have been about tonite"

5starpool

Obviously, everyone is different, and it is not way limited to pub players as I see bad club players do it all the time, but generally wht I would expect of a bad pub player is to only play their own hand, and think that top pair is good enough to call any bet with.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Ste05

mocata wrote: »

Is that not a recipe for an ideal opponent though Ste?

Sure is, the more the merrier IMO.

mocata wrote: »

Surely everyone playing poker is on a learning curve?! Have none of you ever peered back to 5+ years ago and how you thought about poker then? If you know your well ahead of someone on the curve, wouldn't you want to play with them as often as possible

Yep, I was sh1t back then, I didn't know what I was doing, and one of the most important things is game selection and playing people worse then you is kinda Poker 101. If you're the 10th best player in the world but are playing the top 9 players in the world, you're still gonna lose money even though you're the 10th best player in the World.

StephenInsane

shoutman wrote: »

Is she your ex girlfriend because you are now going out with her father?

LOL!! No John is happily married I'm afraid. Not only that but he's one of the most romantic men I've ever heard of. He used to always take his wife on romantic get-aways to Paris, Rome etc. Once me and my girlfriend were chilling watching the box at her house, and John pulled up in a white Roller to whisk the wife away to Conemara (it was their anniversay).

Romantic but tough, I remember another time a load of rough looking teenagers were smoking joints outside the house. When he told them to scram, one of them got lippy and John hammered him, he didn't hit him in the face because he knew of the damage he could do, just all bodyshots, I'd say the kids still got bruises.

If i was to compare him to anyone, it would definitely be Home & Aways Alf Stewart. A real friendley old-fashioned gent, but by-heck, you better not step out of line!

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

semibluff

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055227257


do you ever over exagerate stephen??

mocata

Is John any blood relation to chuck norris?!

Ste05

StephenInsane wrote: »

LOL!! No John is happily married I'm afraid. Not only that but he's one of the most romantic men I've ever heard of. He used to always take his wife on romantic get-aways to Paris, Rome etc. Once me and my girlfriend were chilling watching the box at her house, and John pulled up in a white Roller to whisk the wife away to Conemara (it was their anniversay).

Romantic but tough, I remember another time a load of rough looking teenagers were smoking joints outside the house. When he told them to scram, one of them got lippy and John hammered him, he didn't hit him in the face because he knew of the damage he could do, just all bodyshots, I'd say the kids still got bruises.

If i was to compare him to anyone, it would definitely be Home & Aways Alf Stewart. A real friendley old-fashioned gent, but by-heck, you better not step out of line!

Have you considered telling him how you feel? You never know he might turn up with a big White Rolls just for you and him....

BigCityBanker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

- openlimp;
- openraise pots for more than 3x irrespective of stack to blind ratios or levels of activity;
- give very simple betting pattern information with actions preflop - i.e. don't balance their preflop range;
- bet for information;
- overvalue top pair;
- overvalue draws to flushes or straights;
- not understand position;
- not understand pot odds;
- not understand how to pot control;
- defending far too loose from the blinds;
- preferring to call rather than 3 - bet;
- have a poor awareness of stack sizes and how it should affect your decisions;
- be unable to plan hands and not be aware when an action is pot committing;
- fail to value bet;
- be overly concerned with tournament life in certain spots;
- be very poor at putting all of the elements of a hand together and making logical decisions. i.e. just play their own cards a lot and be unable to think beyond the first or second level;

so your one step ahead jus cos you read the harrington on holdem series and rehash its principles in every other thread?

shoutman

StephenInsane wrote: »

LOL!! No John is happily married I'm afraid. Not only that but he's one of the most romantic men I've ever heard of. He used to always take his wife on romantic get-aways to Paris, Rome etc. Once me and my girlfriend were chilling watching the box at her house, and John pulled up in a white Roller to whisk the wife away to Conemara (it was their anniversay).

Romantic but tough, I remember another time a load of rough looking teenagers were smoking joints outside the house. When he told them to scram, one of them got lippy and John hammered him, he didn't hit him in the face because he knew of the damage he could do, just all bodyshots, I'd say the kids still got bruises.

If i was to compare him to anyone, it would definitely be Home & Aways Alf Stewart. A real friendley old-fashioned gent, but by-heck, you better not step out of line!

This has to be a LOL level!

Wp'd sir, you had me.

shoutman

BigCityBanker wrote: »

so your one step ahead jus cos you read the harrington on holdem series and rehash its principles in every other thread?

LL V BCB headz up for rollz? :pac:

That or the loser gets kicked out of the poker forum for good. I know who i'm rooting for.