Cork to Limerick rail improvements

Ball with NTA and the minister who struggles with making decisions

Thats the most logical location for a station, right next to the M7 to capture traffic coming into Limerick and also to make rail more attractive towards Dublin as it would avoid the trek into Limerick city for many

The time lost by the stop can be made up by the higher speed and double track to LJ

Discussion currently taking place in the CACR thread but isn't relevant to that thread. The Cork Line Level Crossings Project was discussed in this thread initially so will pick up the discussion here.

ABP has finally given approval for the Cork Line Level Crossings Project after a little over 3 years.

The potential speed improvement was being discussed on the other thread. Given 5 of the 7 LCs to be closed are between Mallow and Charleville, I would have thought it would give a good speed improvement on that section. 5 LCs closed over a 12km section with no stops in between should mean trains can maintain a good speed between Mallow and Charleville. The other two north of Charleville should help heading towards Dublin but southbound trains would have to slow any way approaching Charleville.

the all ireland rail review is just another report though, so things can change and stuff not in it can be implemented as it's not set in stone.

stuff in it isn't going to be implemented either, in fact i would be shocked if much of it actually ever does get done.

end of the road is correct, the AISRR is just a report and isn't the final say in anything, and it is also meant to be treated like a transport strategy and be updated every so many years (I can't remember if it recommended every 5 or 10 years).

That said that article is being misleading, it does actually recommend direct Cork-Limerick Services. Recommendation 8 is "Provide more direct services between Ireland’s West and South Coasts" and it mentions Galway-Limerick-Cork services as a specific example throughout the report. It reads like the article is claiming that going through LJ means that a direct service isn't possible, which is of course just not true.

But yes the review doesn't recommend a new direct link, and I see why. The standard a Charleville-Limerick Direct link would need to be built to make a difference is quite high (twin-track, electrified, and 160km/h if not 200km/h capable), as there is still so much time to save by upgrading Cork-LJ-Limerick. With the full list of upgrades, including 200km/h running for Cork-LJ, twin-tracking and 160km/h running for LJ-limerick, as well as LC closures and electrification for both, a ~60 minute Cork-LJ-Limerick service is possible. These upgrades are also unavoidable even with a new alignment, as they are needed for the Dublin-Limerick and Dublin-Cork services.

The big problem however is that building a direct Cork-Limerick would be a comparable in scale and length to the HH-Portarlington and Clongriffin-Drogheda express alignments proposed for Dublin, but a project like that just doesn't make sense for Limerick and Cork. Those projects are needed for Dublin because the Northern and Kildare lines are capacity constrained with commuter services, so they need either an express alignment or quad-tracking. Cork and Limerick, even with the networks proposed by CACR and LSMATs just wouldn't have that problem. CACR ends at Mallow so it doesn't do anything to improve CACR conflicts. LSMATs proposed services are just too short and/or too infrequent for it to impact Cork-Limerick Services.

of course it makes sense, we are not in the 60s anymore where both cities were classed as back waters even though they weren't in reality.

both cities are only going to go one way, up, and that means a more direct line will be required.

it is going to happen, but like the all ireland rail review not in our lifetimes, that i would agree with as a whole.

There already is a curve. The main track used by Limerick-LJ services is the one into Platforms 2 and 3, however there is also a track connecting to Platform 1 (mostly used by Dublin-Cork ofc), which allows services stopping from Limerick to access the Cork mainline.

That curve is actually one of the two ways they operate Direct Dublin-Limerick services, a train pulls into Platform 1, then turns around to go on its way to Limerick. The other way Dublin-Limerick services operate is with the direct curve that allows it to completely skip LJ.

I would prefer an upgrade of Limerick Junction that allows for Kent - Colbert trains to bypass the station and go straight to Colbert/Limerick stations. Not sure a direct Charleville - Colbert line makes much sense when the the Kent - Heuston train is still going to stop at LJ for Colbert - Heuston passengers.

However, I also wouldn't be mad if they just spent money adding shelters, seating and retail to LJ Station and stick with the train transfer. As long as you're not waiting longer than 2 minutes for your train, I don't see the issue as the Kent train will stop in LJ regardless. I also really don't know how much demand there is for Cork - Limerick commuter traffic. I know they're the second and third cities, and the idea is also to connect Kent and intermediate stations to Ceannt and the west coast. However, even then, I just don't know if there's enough demand to justify a whole new line over spending a tonne of money on making Limerick Junction a proper station

Maybe a silly question, but why are Colbert to Kent movements possible but not Kent to Colbert?

A 30 min frequency Cork - Limerick while Dublin - Cork remains hourly and Dublin Limerick still requires a connection? Ridiculous.

There aren't enough platforms at LJ to have 4 services there at the same time not to mention the timekeeping nightmare of forcing a 3/4 way connection every hour.

It's not 4 services at the same time, just around the same time which makes it possible. Having to Time Cork-Dublin, Dublin-Cork, Wateford-LJ, and the LJ-Limerick shuttle all the same time wouldn't be that different to how it operates currently either.

However, having 30 minute frequency on Limerick-LJ would actually make timetabling much easier as it would allow for much more flexibility in scheduling.

I don't disagree that by the time these services would be implemented there would likely be a 30 minute Cork-Dublin services, especially as that proposed service pattern would need Limerick-LJ to be twin-tracked. I would say the same for hourly direct Limerick services compared to the few peak time ones we have now. That said they don't really effect LXFlyer's proposal as they would likely just skip LJ entirely as some already do.

Would that theoretically result in half-hourly services between Limerick and Cork? That would be a significant help for commuting between the cities