Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Moderation of trans issue and terms

1679111230

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 733 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    OscarMIlde blaming them for 'the realities of women being dismissed, minimised or outright denied' for a start.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    Explain what was horrible.

    Transwomen are biologically male. The argument is they would be uncomfortable changing with biological males as they are women.

    But for them to change in the women's changing room means that now the women in that room are likely to be just as uncomfortable, as despite their gender identity, they are biologically male.

    The poster also alluded to a young boy being upset about sharing a space with a person with breasts.

    What about a young girl sharing a space with a biological male.

    Why is the discomfort of the transwoman and young boy in this scenario more important than the discomfort of natal women and young girls?

    But I am a transphobe and a bigot and a TERF and any other name that could be thrown at me for my 'horrible horrible' attitude.

    Do you not consider the poster I was responding to a misogynist for dismissing the feelings of women. Is that not a horrible, horrible attitude?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    What I am saying can't be dismissed or denied so falling back on the old thrash the poster and misinterpret what they say.

    I'm not going to be suckered in by it. I've said what I said, and I know more people agree with me than don't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,815 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Some of the commentary here is little more than pointed personal abuse at this stage.

    It highlights the intent here, to silence dissenting voices under the pretence of kindness.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 733 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Because you are calling a transwoman a man. Showing the utter disrespect when you claimed earlier you could show respect for transpeople.

    That is what is bigoted. Not the sensitivities of sharing the dressing room. I can understand that and it's a terrible situation for everyone involved. However, when you outright dismiss them entirely as 'a man', then it shows you have no care for transwomen whatsoever. And you have proved exactly why this thread is needed in the first place.

    And to address your bullsh*t earlier that you'd have no problem with transmen using a woman's changing room.

    How on Earth would you be able to tell the difference between a transwoman and a fully transitioned transman? You wouldn't be able to. So that's why people don't believe you.

    Literally nothing stopping me from entering the woman's changing room and claiming to have been assigned female at birth and apparently you'll be fine with it.

    You're fooling nobody.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 733 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    @volchitsa

    Please don't misrepresent me as you have above based on what you assume to be my opinions on subjects that I have not engaged in. Ironic that you just accused another person of projecting, and then you do it yourself.

    My sole purpose for making the original post was to ask the CA mods / admin team to look at what could be done to address what I consider to be offensive and transphobic language being used on Boards towards transgender people, i.e. both trans men and trans women.

    I have not engaged on the subject of changing rooms, or sports, or prison spaces, or gotten into any of that (and I'm not going to) so again, please don't assume you know what my feelings are on those subjects are, and then declare them to another poster with my name attached.

    Despite what you think, you are not in my head, and you have zero right to speak for me. And despite what others may think, I am not a trans rights activist. Just someone who strongly believes that all human beings deserve to be treated with, and spoken about, with respect.

    Thank you.

    Post edited by Ezeoul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 733 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    I see you're trying to play the victim here now, so I'll spell it out clearly for you so you can understand.

    NOBODY is dismissing your concerns about sharing a changing room with a transwoman. Not one single person.

    The above is not transphobic and bigoted. Read this sentence a couple more times until you get it.

    HOWEVER, you have said you have respect for transpeople in a general sense, but in the next sentence you blamed them for minimising and outright dismissing women. That's bollocks and that is bigoted.

    THEN, you dismissed transwomen as 'men'. You are outright dismissing their existence. Their existence is real. These are human beings and you're treating them like they don't exist.

    THAT is what makes you bigoted and transphobic. Hopefully you can tell the difference between the two and learn something.

    However something tells me you won't, because that 'respect' you have for transpeople never existed in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    I'm not calling a tranwoman a man. I am not walking up to somebody and deliberately making them uncomfortable. I am stating the reality that transwomen as a group biologically are male and their rights must be balanced with the rights of others, and should not supersede sex based rights of women.

    Also, since all people have a biological sex, regardless of what gender they consider themselves, sex based rights benefit trans people as well as people comfortable with their biological sex. Transmen for instance are biologically women and thus should be protected by sex based protections if required, such as maternity leave if they bear a child, or say legal protection from unfair dismissal due to pregnancy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 275 ✭✭Quiet Achiever


    Assigned Sex? Assigned by who, God?

    I thought gender was assigned "by society'. No one is assigning sex, it just is, even if some people want to change its physical characteristics (which is there business).

    And yes, we all know a <1% of people are intersex



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 733 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    You said:

    "Oh God help a man being made uncomfortable."

    You dismissed a transwoman's existence by calling them a man. That is bigoted.

    End of. I'd actually give you the benefit of the doubt that you misspoke but considering your other posts, I'd suggest you haven't.

    Also, you seem to have ignored my question about how you'd know the difference between a transwoman and a fully-transitioned transman?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Sex is assigned to babies at birth and entered on their birth certificate, usually by whomever registers the birth. (Hospital or parents).

    This is what the terms "assigned female at birth" (AFAB) and "assigned male at birth" (AFAB) refer to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭archfi


    No, no it is not.

    Sex is observed and recorded at birth and indeed observed before birth.

    You'e absolutely right about the correct use of language being important.

    A thing isn't what it says it is.

    A thing is what it does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,336 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    just going though this out of idle curiosity I gotta say - you couldnt make this sh1t up.

    is there actually a single actual trans person here or are we all getting offended and re-offended 'on behalf' and 'twice removed'?

    you people all need to get off the internet, seriously



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    "observed and recorded at birth" = "assigned at birth".

    Tomayto / tomahto.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭baxterooneydoody


    A trans woman can go where they like as long as they don't make other people uncomfortable, if women in a female only changing room are uncomfortable with a biological male invading a private and safe place then they should definitely use any other place to change but there, trans rights do not trump anyone else's rights.

    A biological male with breasts should think of their safety but maybe they should think about whether or not taking hormones or having surgery to give themselves breasts is a particularly good way to go when others are put in a position where they have to make allowances for them.

    Whether you believe it or not but drastic action like surgery to remove appendages or forcing your body to grow breasts by taking hormones only the opposite sex can grow is something that will always be outside of the norm and the needs of the absolute minority should never impede on the day to day normality of other people.

    Allowances can of course be made but where it affects anyone else then your the problem, not anyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭archfi


    Not at all, you are talking about something akin to a sorting hat at births while I'm talking about legitimate, observable and verifiable information.

    As I say, clear language is important.

    A thing isn't what it says it is.

    A thing is what it does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭aero2k


    I think @volchitsa has come to a reasonable conclusion because:

    a) you linked to a site which advocates a use of language that makes it difficult (if not impossible) to refer to people in biological terms.

    b) you made the comparison between the treatment of trans people and the treatment of black people in the southern states of the US.

    Now that I think of it, I'd like a ban on the phrase " the mask slips", or anything in a similar vein. If anyone has a problem with a post, they should spell it out rather than trying to insult the poster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I have given birth, so I know what happens, including a hospital bracelet being put on my newborn baby's wrist that recorded her time of birth and assigned sex, before she was even handed to me.

    But by all means, continue with your pedantry. I'll leave you to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭baxterooneydoody


    For the sake of the debate let's pretend this relative exists, aside from the beard and hairy chest, have they testicles? Have they the ability to produce testosterone? Have they the physical ability of a man of similar weight and height?

    My question is have they the same ability to make a woman feel like they're under threat at any given time as we have been led to believe on here and other social media platforms? If so why on earth would any real man, as we can assume your relative is, why would any real man want to make any woman ever feel like that



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 681 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    Not agreeing with a person's belief is no a "whatever" phobia. It's just disagreement. Just because you think something is transphobic only proves one thing...that you think it's transphobic..that doesn't mean it is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 733 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    For the sake of debate, let's actually address the question that was asked.

    How would you know, from looking at that trans man, that they were assigned female at birth?

    Truth is, you wouldn't. That's why anyone who says they aren't comfortable with trans women in women's changing rooms, but trans men are fine, are lying. They wouldn't know the difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,862 ✭✭✭plodder


    Because you are calling a transwoman a man. Showing the utter disrespect when you claimed earlier you could show respect for transpeople.

    Oh the humanity! The poster used the word "man" once indirectly, but otherwise carefully said "male" or "biologically male" which it has to be said, is one of the terms under the threat of the ban hammer.

    It's like the (45 year old) movie Life of Brian, which ridiculed traditional Christian religiosity and where the guy gets stoned for uttering the word "Jehovah". The only thing that's changed is the religion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,815 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Any parents here will likely remember being at their 20 week scan and being asked if they wanted to know the babies sex or not.

    So sex isn't just observed at birth, in the biological sense it's very much observable in utero.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭baxterooneydoody


    Easy, trans men still carry the feminine traits they developed growing up, same as the trans woman with the broad shoulders and the physique that goes with masculinity, very few men or women can realistically pass for members of the opposite sex no matter how hard they try



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭archfi


    It isn't pedantry when discussing language terms especially when it actually matters.

    I mean, absolutely no one 'assigned' your baby her sex at birth.

    …incoming but but babies born with DSDs… (who are all either male or female)

    A thing isn't what it says it is.

    A thing is what it does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 733 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    This confirms to me that you just have a perception of men and women cross-dressing and that passes off as trans when it is so far from reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I am a parent here and no, I wasn't offered that.

    Though I understand it is now offered routinely, as recently as ten years ago not all hospitals in Ireland did routine scans.

    But as this is off-topic, I will leave it there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 733 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    That poster had multiple chances to confirm it was a slip of the tongue and it wasn't intended.

    They doubled, and tripled, down. It's one of many statements which says to me that they are just transphobic bigots.

    You carry on coming into the arse-end of a conversation without reading all of the posts though. I'm sure you don't really care anyway.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    No.

    Volchista made an assumption of my opinion on topics I have not offered any opinion on.

    Also, I have never, anywhere, made a comparison between the treatment of trans people and the treatment of black people. So that is utterly false.

    I have literally have no idea where you pulled that from.



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement