Navan Rail Line

Land ownership can be quite a fluid concept, over the long term at least. Unless you continue to exercise your ownership, you can lose it. The only way to fully determine ownership here would be to test it in the courts.

If someone can show that they have had possession of the land and displayed traits of ownership (for example using it in some way) for a substantial period of time, the courts could find in favour of them, even if no sale has taken place. Particularly if CIÉ can't show that they have used the land in any way for several decades. The "new owner" may also have subsequently sold the land and that been registered, then it becomes more difficult.

CIÉ are unlikely to take it to the courts unless they want to maintain the presence of doing something for several years without any danger of actually having to do something. They would have to challenge all other potential owners along the route which would take a long time and they are bound to lose on some, if not many.

If they want to actually build something, they'll just CPO whatever they want. In that case they should look for another route which minimises contentious issues like CPOing houses, splitting farms, etc. A new route could also see trains serve passengers on the way to/from Navan, unlike shadowing the old route.

Just to state again, I'm not strongly for or against any particular alignment, but I disagree with your comment.

The majority of the old alignment is still there. A new alignment would require significantly higher level of CPO, especially if the aim is to get closer to town centres such as Dunshaughlin. A new alignment is also going to split far more farms.

A new alignment is the best idea but only in an ideal world. The costs would spiral and the project would take significantly longer to deliver. I just don't see it happening.

You can be sure the state have to CPO any sections of the old alignment which anybody claims ownership of, it won't be worth the years to court battles to assert ownership which they could well lose. Every adjacent land owner will get in on it. Between that and having to deviate at certain locations (particularly around Kilmessan and around the M3 crossing), they'll be CPOing practically everything anyway. A new alignment would have to largely follow the M3.

Sorry no, the claim was that "From a standing start you are looking at 7 years to go from concept to open for service". Then you started adding things which would have to happen during the stages outlined in the timeline but claiming they are outside of the timeline. The 7 years just isn't realistic, I even referenced a current project with a much lower scope of works which will take the 2.5 years for construction which was stated for rebuilding the Navan line from scratch.

I've heard it all before, the reopening of these lines is always just around the corner. Don't bother with double-tracking existing operational lines, will just reopening old lines and rob Peter to pay Paul with the existing limited capacity. But you keep fighting the good fight, it'll be worth it eventually.

Shows how negligent CIE were when they allowed development along the old line

I don't think so. We were told at the start of October by Jim Meade that consultants had been selected, and IE is/was waiting on approval to appoint them so work can begin. The article seems to based on an update given a week ago to a radio station by Barry Kenny (Corporate Communications Manager for IE) on when work for the Navan line will start. Here is the update:

https://www.lmfm.ie/news/lmfm-news/navan-rail-project-to-begin-in-a-couple-of-weeks/

The real question is how long is a few weeks. This is only a week old, so does a few weeks mean by the end of November or December? Or is it still going to be a while and this is corporate speak to make people happy?

I think he's a good spokesman. He doesn't lie. He explains the realities of operating a mass transport system, and shows why the bullshit headlines in the likes of the Daily Mail are bullshit over-simplifications.

People really like something to get angry about, even if it's a lie.

It would be great to see Navan reconnected to the rail (passenger) network.

But, I do remember 20+ years ago Noel (no bailout) Dempsey with his mug shot on the election posters promising this.

IMV, there should be a new alingment to take in Dunshaughlin, Ratoath and Ashbourne. I know, I know, cost, cost, cost. If we're serious about expanding PT and taking cars of the roads, then…

Maybe not. With both FG and FF each in the low 20s in the opinion polls, they're going to need some block of TDs to get them pass 80 seats. They've both ruled out SF, so where do they get the additional support from?

Could well be the case. Looks like we'll know atfer 29th November.

A GE always throws up a few surprises.

Take a look at the Greens vote in all of those areas in June. Particularly ROGs. In the Fingal site, they lost two thirds to three quarters of their 2019 figure in many areas - including his own base. Topping the poll on 27% to losing their seat.

The bit in Dublin City is a lot better for them but is not the bulk of the constituency.

His personal vote is not going to rescue him that much above local support having cratered.

Why is it not feasible?

Maybe do a Manulla Junction.

There is a solution somewhere, it just has to be found and made work. It's going to cost and it's going to require ploughing through the countryside.