Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

I can't see how you think your second point there fundamentally improves anything. The selection of CC players (or players subject to the Player Management protocols, likely the same thing) already comes with a lot of conditions attached. This would be an unnecessary and likely impractical additional one to that.

The problem is that over the Christmas period for example there's 3 interprovincial games and 4 European ones. The priority for the teams is to go all-out for Europe and half-arsed for the other 3. This results in weaker matches no matter what way you look at it. The priorities here should be reversed. Stronger interpro games make the 4 provinces stronger which in turn makes the national team stronger. I wouldn't even be thinking about gate receipts as there is no issue there

Forcing Leinster centrally contracted players to move to other provinces would be a retrograde step. It doesn't improve Ireland - just spreads our playing base out more. The players don't want it and wouldn't like it, it would dilute provincial rivalries and it would actually just impede the ability of all provinces to succeed. We'd then have four decent provinces, none of which would likely be capable of winning in Europe (and bringing in the associated revenue those home knock outs etc bring to the IRFU pot).

I fully agree for the record

I've said it about 50 times now - but the only solution is the other provinces improving their player production, but that's not a short term fix.

You're correct. And if money grew on magic trees or the other 3 provinces had the resources or even the subsidies that Leinster are given by the IRFU this would be a lot easier.

Look, Leinster have obviously had good NIQ players over the years. I just don't think they've ever signed them as the same profile as Snyman and Barrett in the same season. While simultaneously having a complete stacked squad.

It's possible I'm being unfair on Elsom there, and there's some recency bias at play with Snyman and Jordie Barrett.

Isa was probably the best NIQ player who has played in Ireland in terms of what he brought to Leinster and what they got out of him. But I think it's entirely fair to say he wasn't as high profile / highly thought of when he signed for Leinster right?

Contepomi was definitely marquee. I don't think he was as marquee as Jordie Barrett.

"world-cup winner Chris Whitaker" - for this I could point to you comments about "world-cup winner, Jean Kleyn". Now, that's probably a little unfair but I think there's the crux of a point there too.

Sure. If you want to believe it's a coincidence, you're entitled to.

There is a huge difference in not knowing the solution and what you are doing and claiming you want a solution that is impossible to achieve - hence needing a 'magical solution'.

Going back to politics, you're taking the magic money tree approach - where politicians claim to want a solution where there is a huge increase in government expenditure without anybody having to pay extra for it in taxes.

Just be honest and accept that calling for a solution that closes a huge inequality gap for 3 provinces will significantly negatively impact Leinster.

Of course it will. Lord forbid that the provinces are made up of Leinster players. Is that what they want? Who'd get behind a province that's comprised of Leinster players.

Given Leinster aren't significantly impacted with the current split (7:5), I don't see any reason why they would be significantly impacted by any change that would act as a counter-weight to the now 10:3 imbalance.

They'd still be as competitive. They've been the most consistent side in the Europe for the last ~8 years, when the imbalance wasn't anywhere near as stark.

As for your continued "Just be honest"... I'm arguing in good faith. How is this anything other than accusing me of otherwise.

Who should get them? Hansen, Casey, Crowley and Bealham? Two bench players (or maybe not even bench in Casey's case) and an outhalf who's very new on the scene.

Hansen will probably get one next time (but about the same time Aki comes off one).

I've a largely stayed out of this conversation because I don't think we're dealing with a representative sample of Irish rugby fans in here. Elsewhere, I don't think I have heard a single fan push back strongly on the idea that the present system is unfair. For example, this was sent to a whatsapp group that I'm in with mostly Leinster and a few Ulster fans. It's from a Leinster fan.

Some thoughts on the central contract question:

The simple, blunt instrument approach would be a draft system like in the US. I don’t think this is a runner because of the loyalty that players and supporters have for their own province. This loyalty has contributed to the success of the provinces over the years.

The present system is unfair because Leinster don’t have to pay most of the first team. Having said that, all the guys who are on central contracts deserve to be, with Mack Hansen and JGP next in line, maybe Jack C in a couple of years time.

A possible solution would be for the IRFU to give an equal grant to each province to pay wages. Ireland players could get an annual top-up from IRFU for being in the squad and bonus for making the 23. Injury shouldn't cause them to lose out. Provinces could be free to raise funds/sponsorship and should get compensation from the IRFU for the unavailability of their front line players.

There are a lot of rugby people in Leinster who are reaping the benefits of their hard work and ambition in the past few decades. Particularly those involved with turning St. Michael's into the production powerhouse they currently are (two lost finals in the LSCs prior to 2000; three titles and four lost finals since).

To admit that the present system is unfair should not mean downplaying this effort or the broader achievements in this area. It's extraordinary.

But with population, logistics and expendable incomes as they are, there simply isn't a way for the other three provinces to close the gap any time soon.

There is a "double yield" enjoyed by Leinster when you then consider these structural advantages combined with inevitable supplementation of its senior wage-bill by central contracts.

Fixing the problem is a lot easier said than done, as that message above sums up.