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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Limiting carbon emission to 1.5 Celsius would do nothing to help the Maldives and other small island countries (SICs) that are endangered by rising sea levels. Why don't the wealthiest countries spend money on helping those SICs to create strong coastal defences to protect against the rising levels?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    "the anti-green religion" is far worse than anything the Green party could ever claim. This thread is an excellent example.

    Building a public transport which is effective is hurting "lower incomes, elderly, with disabilities" how? would that not be exactly what they need instead of having to buy and maintain cars?

    Trying to say "The Greens don't care about people in general" really tells me you don't understand what the Green party is about, one of the major points of the party is a better environment for everyone. So that is just baffling



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,746 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    With polls showing the Green Party consistently within the margin of error with around half of their 2020 general election vote, I don`t see that it really matters, but as to your question this might help.

    Untitled.png

    It shows that the vast majority of those that favored the Green Party in polls since the last General Election are in the ABC1 social class while that of those in the C2DE social class has been dropping off dramatically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    So the original claim is wrong because the last votes took place in 2019(local) and 2020(general)

    Thank you for confirming that, even thought you didn't mean to



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,746 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I really do not have the time to waste on more of your twisting on the hook nonsense. If you want to believe that those participants in opinion polls carried out since the GE of 2020 lied about their social class since then you work away.

    It`s not going to change the facts that presently those that support the Green Party are in the ABC1 social category (the leafy suburbs class) while whatever support they had at the last GE from those in the C2DE category (the working class) has dropped off dramatically.



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  • Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    1035 pages and all the Greensters are RIGHT and everyone who does not follow the green line are dumb idiots. That what I have learnt on this thread.

    The problem with the Green Party and fans is they are tax first. No metro, no light rail, no park and ride etc. ban the car!

    if the infrastructure was in place FIRST then there would not be a backlash.

    all stick with the greens in leafy Cargo bike Dun Laoghaire.

    Same old same old on this thread



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Never said "all the Greensters are RIGHT"

    Talking about "leafy Cargo bike Dun Laoghaire" 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Don't respond then, especially when you gave me the information which proved I was right

    I never quoted or asked you to respond.

    The "facts" are in the last two elections shows the previous statement was incorrect. Thank you. As I expected you didn't realise you proved my point.

    Now you can get back to rambling about how terrible the Green party is



  • Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    actually you did. In that way that shows that the Greens distain is far reaching, I quote you


    “The Greens don't care about people in general" really tells me you don't understand what the Green party is about, one of the major points of the party is a better environment for everyone”

    I.e you know best. And will shout down anyone who does not agree and tell them not to respond.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Who is shouting you down? I made the valid point the Green party want a better environment. Instead of ranting at me do you agree that is what the party want?



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  • Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    no, they want to tax people to death. They want cars off the road. They want to walk around the leafy suburbs without the riff raff disturbing their pleasant sunny Tuesday afternoon

    sooner the election comes round the better.

    You don’t think your shouting people down by telling them not to post?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I think you should look at the person who posted to me first, I quote "I really do not have the time to waste on more of your twisting on the hook nonsense."

    Now who is shouting people down?

    Anyway to response in terms of cars off the road, that will mean less expense for people to have to own a car so the "riff raff" as you want to describe them will be able to get into and out of work easy. While the people walking "around the leafy suburbs" will be using the same public transport

    You haven't thought that angle through have you?



  • Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    you do understand that I refer to the greens a the ABC leafy suburban avocado eating folk. The Patagonia crew on the cargo e-bikes to go to the local spar.

    The riff raff myself and my fellow worker bees.

    You know the nuisance the greens want to tax to hell and back. And certainly off the road.

    you have shouted me down, pointless debating with you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,746 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Post #31021 you replied to @ToweringPerformance asscertion that the Green Party voting cohort are mainly middle or upper class folk, with "Sweeping generalisation with nothing to back it up" and "Anyway can you back up this statement with some facts"

    I have shown you the data that proves the posters point. If you wish to childishly ignore that since the last general election it has become progressively more so, or as you have shown in the past, your complete inability to understand data shown to you doesn`t change the fact that the posters assertion was correct.

    If you just wish to ignore that because it doesn`t fit your narrative that`s up to you. It`s no skin of my nose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Nobody is "shouted me down" , you don't like someone is not agreeing with you

    Personally I would never refer to anyone as "riff raff", that's your words. I use public transport every week, I also work. So I must be "riff raff"?

    "avocado eating folk" 😂

    You certainly on the right thread for that type of statement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You showed the data that says they are not in the last elections when the population gets to vote.

    You don't like that and as usual go off on a tangent, bang away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,746 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    😁 I showed you the data that proved the posters`s point that the Green Party vote is predominately from the ABC1 leafy suburbs social class and since the got their hands on power whatever working class C2DE vote they had is disappearing like snow off a ditch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Thats all true. Its very problematic morally, but its also just so very short sighted politically.

    If the Greens implemented measures that improved people's quality of life (or at least didn't negatively effect it) while reducing emissions they'd be quite well supported - likely around the 10-20% Green parties are polling at in most of the rest of Europe. A lot of voters here do in theory support at least some of the easier/less damaging climate change measures. That level of support which would let the Greens keep a pretty consistent position as kingmaker in Irish politics, staying in government and getting their measures enacted.

    Which you'd think would be a priority given the supposed urgency of the 'climate emergency'.

    Instead our Greens have focused almost exclusively on highly punitive measures like the carbon tax, reducing the national herd size etc, which negatively impact people's quality of life, and hurt the poorest most. And as a result every poll shows they're going to get essentially destroyed as a party in the next election. One to two seats is their projected return now, which will see them out of office with no impact on policymaking for at least the next 5 years, possibly 10.

    Its just bad politics on every level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,859 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change this World



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    The climate scare mongering sector is a huge industry now. There are countless numbers of jobs and departments within media organisations dedicated towards furthering their message.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    A lot of Green policies are Malthusian in nature. They see human's as a problem and as such any policies that "improve" the climate are worthwhile, regardless of the outcomes to people. A perfect example is looking to reduce NG usage, including Nitrogen production. There have been studies done to show that reducing NG produced Nitrogen could see somewhere from 100's of millions to up to a billion people killed by starvation. But, hey, once we get that carbon reduced we have all live happily ever after (or maybe not).

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,063 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Another impact there is CO2 production used in hospitals, etc. When N fertiliser production stops, so too does the CO2 which is a by product of the N production. Perhaps not as big a problem as the loss of N for crops and the issues that would raise.

    <Snip>

    Post edited by Ten of Swords on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 983 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Humanity must progress and adapt. It’s not enough to settle for the status quo when it’s clearly inadequate. While The Greens must approach their policies pragmatically, it’s essential that by 2050, we transition to a fully renewable way of living. Our existence in the cosmos is fleeting, and over the last 130 years, our impact on Earth has been profoundly negative. We could have made wiser choices. Continuing on our current path is not viable. Criticism of The Greens is common, yet they are challenging the complacency of those who resist change, preferring to maintain a status quo that serves their interests and not those who will come hundreds of years after them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭ps200306


    …it’s essential that by 2050, we transition to a fully renewable way of living.

    a) why?

    b) it absolutely 100% guaranteed isn't going to happen, so what's plan B?

    c) malinvestment such as the Green's are pushing will reduce our chances even further.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭ps200306


    From the Biz Post's ESG briefing:

    All is not well in the world of electric vehicles... there has been a 16 per cent decline in Irish electric vehicle (EV) sales in the first three months of this year, compared with the same period in 2023. This was against the backdrop of a reasonable growth rate of 8 per cent in the overall car market, with sales of petrol and diesel vehicles growing by 14.8 and 9 per cent respectively, according to the Society of the Irish Motor Industry (SIMI).

    And as our columnist Vincent Boland highlighted this week, there are similar trends being witnessed globally. In the first quarter of this year, global sales of electric vehicles at EV giants Tesla and BYD tumbled. Tesla’s were down a fifth and BYD’s were down two fifths, compared to the last quarter of 2023. While the sales dive at these EV behemoths can be chalked up to supply chain bottlenecks, disruption caused by labour disputes, and even price wars that are sharpening competition among EV makers, it is also clear that demand for EVs is cooling off.

    Here in Ireland, any reduction in EV demand is a particular worry, when you consider the scale of our EV sales targets, and the reliance of our climate targets on reaching those targets. The government has set a target of 175,000 EV sales by the end of 2025, and 945,000 by 2030. Even if every car sold from tomorrow was fully electric, the government would still fall short, and in fact less than 20 per cent of new car sales are electric currently.

    The reasons for the dip in Irish EV sales are manyfold, including a slow pace of EV charging infrastructure delivery feeding into stories of long queues at existing chargers. Similarly, a broad political pushback on green initiatives is helping to spread misinformation about EVs, while there has been a collapse in second-hand trade-in values due to improving battery performance in newer models which also feeds anxiety about the value of investing in an EV.

    But it also mustn’t be forgotten that last year the Irish government reduced its grants for electric vehicles from €5,000 to €3,500. This has also likely had an impact on EV sales. The government has admitted that it will have to reduce those grants further as EVs become more popular, otherwise the scheme would end up costing the state billions.

    My own analysis would be that most of the affluent urbanites who enjoy a bit of tree hugging paid for by other people's taxes, and all the directors who got company cars with zero BIK, have now loaded up. That's the target market saturated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    I do like the bit about the misinformation around EV's and in the very same sentence highlights one of the main reasons, the collapse of trade-in values. You need deep pockets to purchase a new EV these days to swallow the money you'll lose on any trade-in within a few years.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Not really the truth now

    EV had been overpriced since the start of covid but they have come down now and are equivalent to a combustion car

    The normal posts about looking at depreciation pick out a high end car like an Audi and then point to depreciation, you have similar high depreciation on a new combustion Audi etc

    So the comment "You need deep pockets to purchase a new EV' is incorrect

    Plus if people looked at service costs over the life of a car, which of course is Green party recommendation to buy a new car and drive it till it dead, it would be a huge saving on service/repairs etc v a combustion



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Why only half quote me and leave out the part about trade-in?

    The price drop of new EVs and larger batteries have in essence killed the trade-in market.

    Why am I not surprised that the greens would give such economically illiterate advice like that. You would need your head examined to buy a new car and just run it till it dies. That's why the trade-in market is so important, it keeps the second hand market competitive.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I quoted the entire post?

    How have they killed trade in's? if you are buying a newer car cheaper?

    It's the same with every car, the price is high at the start and then companies offer deals/reduce price to sell on.

    Yes the price of some EV's dropped more than others but then again if you are trading in you are buying a cheaper new car.

    "Why am I not surprised that the greens would give such economically illiterate advice like that"? who said the Greens gave me advice. I just poitned out the Green party would like you to buy a car and drive it till it dies. I don't do that

    In regards to that, why would you "need your head examined to buy a new car and just run it till it dies"? that is the cheapest way to buy and maintain a car. Even with repair costs to constantly upgrade the car over the lifetime will never "save" you money. I think you need to look into calling someone "illiterate" when the advice you are giving is wrong.
    That’s similar to the advice people got to upgrade their car to get cheaper tax, seemingly unaware that the couple of hundred they would save on tax would never be paid off by the thousands they had to pay to upgrade car



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭prunudo


    to be fair, you need deep pockets to buy any new vehicle these days. There was never value in cars, but seems exceptionally bad at present. Also with things not built to last anymore, it definitely feels like they're pushing us to change more regularly, which means even more outlay and less money in the pocket for disposable income.



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