"Green" policies are destroying this country

ednwireland

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2024/0409/1442467-global-heat/

could have fooled me .

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995701#Comment_121995701

have to keep the message going!

The climate will keep changing and there is very little I can do about it. They want me to worry and be concerned, but there's not much I can do. My house is insulated, I put out my recycling, I don't leave the country more than twice a year if I'm lucky. I don't go out socialising at the weekends.

I also don't bomb the **** out of my neighbours, I don't cause the destruction of neighbourhoods that will need be rebuilt. I don't fly jets or drive tanks burning vast amounts of fossil fuels.

So forgive me if I'm completely fed up of this constant bombardment of "Climate chaos" news and how myself and other normal citizens of Ireland are the problem. We, here won't reverse this path.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995767#Comment_121995767

totally agree, keep telling the plebs that you will need to be taxed more. yet spend billions trying to kill each other.

I suspect one day of gaza or Ukraine wars negates anything useful we might do.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994597#Comment_121994597

The vast majority of their voters are wealthy. It can be seen in their policies - a tax on doing something is a policy that in the real world only effects poor people. Congestion charges, carbon taxes etc don't actually impact the lives of someone whos comfortably off at all, they can just pay the tax barely noticing and not change their behaviour.

If the Greens wanted to make environmental changes without screwing poor people there are plenty of ways to do it. For example we could ringfence all funds raised by the carbon tax, and any congestion charges, for a yearly "carbon dividend" to be paid back to all tax resident adult Irish citizens. That way the dividend would actually leave the people who both pollute the least (ie the poorest), and can spare the least financially, in profit. It would be a lot easier to justify carbon taxes morally that way.

But theres not a chance of our Greens implementing something like that, because they don't care about the quality of life of working class or poorer Irish people.

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996161#Comment_121996161

The Greens don't care about people in general, it's the nature of the party and their supporters. They especially don't care about making life difficult or even miserable for people on lower incomes, elderly, with disabilities or anything that causes them a relative disadvantage. They just don't care. People are just collateral damage in their Green religion, the less of them that exist- the better.

political analyst

Limiting carbon emission to 1.5 Celsius would do nothing to help the Maldives and other small island countries (SICs) that are endangered by rising sea levels. Why don't the wealthiest countries spend money on helping those SICs to create strong coastal defences to protect against the rising levels?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996599#Comment_121996599

"the anti-green religion" is far worse than anything the Green party could ever claim. This thread is an excellent example.

Building a public transport which is effective is hurting "lower incomes, elderly, with disabilities" how? would that not be exactly what they need instead of having to buy and maintain cars?

Trying to say "The Greens don't care about people in general" really tells me you don't understand what the Green party is about, one of the major points of the party is a better environment for everyone. So that is just baffling

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995614#Comment_121995614

With polls showing the Green Party consistently within the margin of error with around half of their 2020 general election vote, I don`t see that it really matters, but as to your question this might help.

It shows that the vast majority of those that favored the Green Party in polls since the last General Election are in the ABC1 social class while that of those in the C2DE social class has been dropping off dramatically.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996801#Comment_121996801

So the original claim is wrong because the last votes took place in 2019(local) and 2020(general)

Thank you for confirming that, even thought you didn't mean to

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996861#Comment_121996861

I really do not have the time to waste on more of your twisting on the hook nonsense. If you want to believe that those participants in opinion polls carried out since the GE of 2020 lied about their social class since then you work away.

It`s not going to change the facts that presently those that support the Green Party are in the ABC1 social category (the leafy suburbs class) while whatever support they had at the last GE from those in the C2DE category (the working class) has dropped off dramatically.

Anaki r2d2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996729#Comment_121996729

1035 pages and all the Greensters are RIGHT and everyone who does not follow the green line are dumb idiots. That what I have learnt on this thread.

The problem with the Green Party and fans is they are tax first. No metro, no light rail, no park and ride etc. ban the car!

if the infrastructure was in place FIRST then there would not be a backlash.

all stick with the greens in leafy Cargo bike Dun Laoghaire.

Same old same old on this thread

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997400#Comment_121997400

Never said "all the Greensters are RIGHT"

Talking about "leafy Cargo bike Dun Laoghaire" 😂

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997079#Comment_121997079

Don't respond then, especially when you gave me the information which proved I was right

I never quoted or asked you to respond.

The "facts" are in the last two elections shows the previous statement was incorrect. Thank you. As I expected you didn't realise you proved my point.

Now you can get back to rambling about how terrible the Green party is

Anaki r2d2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997413#Comment_121997413

actually you did. In that way that shows that the Greens distain is far reaching, I quote you

“The Greens don't care about people in general" really tells me you don't understand what the Green party is about, one of the major points of the party is a better environment for everyone”

I.e you know best. And will shout down anyone who does not agree and tell them not to respond.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997519#Comment_121997519

Who is shouting you down? I made the valid point the Green party want a better environment. Instead of ranting at me do you agree that is what the party want?

Anaki r2d2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997543#Comment_121997543

no, they want to tax people to death. They want cars off the road. They want to walk around the leafy suburbs without the riff raff disturbing their pleasant sunny Tuesday afternoon

sooner the election comes round the better.

You don’t think your shouting people down by telling them not to post?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997584#Comment_121997584

I think you should look at the person who posted to me first, I quote "I really do not have the time to waste on more of your twisting on the hook nonsense."

Now who is shouting people down?

Anyway to response in terms of cars off the road, that will mean less expense for people to have to own a car so the "riff raff" as you want to describe them will be able to get into and out of work easy. While the people walking "around the leafy suburbs" will be using the same public transport

You haven't thought that angle through have you?

Anaki r2d2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997651#Comment_121997651

you do understand that I refer to the greens a the ABC leafy suburban avocado eating folk. The Patagonia crew on the cargo e-bikes to go to the local spar.

The riff raff myself and my fellow worker bees.

You know the nuisance the greens want to tax to hell and back. And certainly off the road.

you have shouted me down, pointless debating with you.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997423#Comment_121997423

Post #31021 you replied to @ToweringPerformance asscertion that the Green Party voting cohort are mainly middle or upper class folk, with "Sweeping generalisation with nothing to back it up" and "Anyway can you back up this statement with some facts"

I have shown you the data that proves the posters point. If you wish to childishly ignore that since the last general election it has become progressively more so, or as you have shown in the past, your complete inability to understand data shown to you doesn`t change the fact that the posters assertion was correct.

If you just wish to ignore that because it doesn`t fit your narrative that`s up to you. It`s no skin of my nose.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997693#Comment_121997693

Nobody is "shouted me down" , you don't like someone is not agreeing with you

Personally I would never refer to anyone as "riff raff", that's your words. I use public transport every week, I also work. So I must be "riff raff"?

"avocado eating folk" 😂

You certainly on the right thread for that type of statement

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997698#Comment_121997698

You showed the data that says they are not in the last elections when the population gets to vote.

You don't like that and as usual go off on a tangent, bang away.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997727#Comment_121997727

😁 I showed you the data that proved the posters`s point that the Green Party vote is predominately from the ABC1 leafy suburbs social class and since the got their hands on power whatever working class C2DE vote they had is disappearing like snow off a ditch.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996599#Comment_121996599

Thats all true. Its very problematic morally, but its also just so very short sighted politically.

If the Greens implemented measures that improved people's quality of life (or at least didn't negatively effect it) while reducing emissions they'd be quite well supported - likely around the 10-20% Green parties are polling at in most of the rest of Europe. A lot of voters here do in theory support at least some of the easier/less damaging climate change measures. That level of support which would let the Greens keep a pretty consistent position as kingmaker in Irish politics, staying in government and getting their measures enacted.

Which you'd think would be a priority given the supposed urgency of the 'climate emergency'.

Instead our Greens have focused almost exclusively on highly punitive measures like the carbon tax, reducing the national herd size etc, which negatively impact people's quality of life, and hurt the poorest most. And as a result every poll shows they're going to get essentially destroyed as a party in the next election. One to two seats is their projected return now, which will see them out of office with no impact on policymaking for at least the next 5 years, possibly 10.

Its just bad politics on every level.

JP Liz V1

LOL

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1777752088644047242

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995701#Comment_121995701

The climate scare mongering sector is a huge industry now. There are countless numbers of jobs and departments within media organisations dedicated towards furthering their message.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000729#Comment_122000729

A lot of Green policies are Malthusian in nature. They see human's as a problem and as such any policies that "improve" the climate are worthwhile, regardless of the outcomes to people. A perfect example is looking to reduce NG usage, including Nitrogen production. There have been studies done to show that reducing NG produced Nitrogen could see somewhere from 100's of millions to up to a billion people killed by starvation. But, hey, once we get that carbon reduced we have all live happily ever after (or maybe not).

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003136#Comment_122003136

Another impact there is CO2 production used in hospitals, etc. When N fertiliser production stops, so too does the CO2 which is a by product of the N production. Perhaps not as big a problem as the loss of N for crops and the issues that would raise.

<Snip>

n.d.os

Humanity must progress and adapt. It’s not enough to settle for the status quo when it’s clearly inadequate. While The Greens must approach their policies pragmatically, it’s essential that by 2050, we transition to a fully renewable way of living. Our existence in the cosmos is fleeting, and over the last 130 years, our impact on Earth has been profoundly negative. We could have made wiser choices. Continuing on our current path is not viable. Criticism of The Greens is common, yet they are challenging the complacency of those who resist change, preferring to maintain a status quo that serves their interests and not those who will come hundreds of years after them.

ps200306

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003199#Comment_122003199

…it’s essential that by 2050, we transition to a fully renewable way of living.

a) why?

b) it absolutely 100% guaranteed isn't going to happen, so what's plan B?

c) malinvestment such as the Green's are pushing will reduce our chances even further.

ps200306

From the Biz Post's ESG briefing:

All is not well in the world of electric vehicles... there has been a 16 per cent decline in Irish electric vehicle (EV) sales in the first three months of this year, compared with the same period in 2023. This was against the backdrop of a reasonable growth rate of 8 per cent in the overall car market, with sales of petrol and diesel vehicles growing by 14.8 and 9 per cent respectively, according to the Society of the Irish Motor Industry (SIMI).

And as our columnist Vincent Boland highlighted this week, there are similar trends being witnessed globally. In the first quarter of this year, global sales of electric vehicles at EV giants Tesla and BYD tumbled. Tesla’s were down a fifth and BYD’s were down two fifths, compared to the last quarter of 2023. While the sales dive at these EV behemoths can be chalked up to supply chain bottlenecks, disruption caused by labour disputes, and even price wars that are sharpening competition among EV makers, it is also clear that demand for EVs is cooling off.

Here in Ireland, any reduction in EV demand is a particular worry, when you consider the scale of our EV sales targets, and the reliance of our climate targets on reaching those targets. The government has set a target of 175,000 EV sales by the end of 2025, and 945,000 by 2030. Even if every car sold from tomorrow was fully electric, the government would still fall short, and in fact less than 20 per cent of new car sales are electric currently.

The reasons for the dip in Irish EV sales are manyfold, including a slow pace of EV charging infrastructure delivery feeding into stories of long queues at existing chargers. Similarly, a broad political pushback on green initiatives is helping to spread misinformation about EVs, while there has been a collapse in second-hand trade-in values due to improving battery performance in newer models which also feeds anxiety about the value of investing in an EV.

But it also mustn’t be forgotten that last year the Irish government reduced its grants for electric vehicles from €5,000 to €3,500. This has also likely had an impact on EV sales. The government has admitted that it will have to reduce those grants further as EVs become more popular, otherwise the scheme would end up costing the state billions.

My own analysis would be that most of the affluent urbanites who enjoy a bit of tree hugging paid for by other people's taxes, and all the directors who got company cars with zero BIK, have now loaded up. That's the target market saturated.