"Green" policies are destroying this country

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003728#Comment_122003728

I do like the bit about the misinformation around EV's and in the very same sentence highlights one of the main reasons, the collapse of trade-in values. You need deep pockets to purchase a new EV these days to swallow the money you'll lose on any trade-in within a few years.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003840#Comment_122003840

Not really the truth now

EV had been overpriced since the start of covid but they have come down now and are equivalent to a combustion car

The normal posts about looking at depreciation pick out a high end car like an Audi and then point to depreciation, you have similar high depreciation on a new combustion Audi etc

So the comment "You need deep pockets to purchase a new EV' is incorrect

Plus if people looked at service costs over the life of a car, which of course is Green party recommendation to buy a new car and drive it till it dead, it would be a huge saving on service/repairs etc v a combustion

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003883#Comment_122003883

Why only half quote me and leave out the part about trade-in?

The price drop of new EVs and larger batteries have in essence killed the trade-in market.

Why am I not surprised that the greens would give such economically illiterate advice like that. You would need your head examined to buy a new car and just run it till it dies. That's why the trade-in market is so important, it keeps the second hand market competitive.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003917#Comment_122003917

I quoted the entire post?

How have they killed trade in's? if you are buying a newer car cheaper?

It's the same with every car, the price is high at the start and then companies offer deals/reduce price to sell on.

Yes the price of some EV's dropped more than others but then again if you are trading in you are buying a cheaper new car.

"Why am I not surprised that the greens would give such economically illiterate advice like that"? who said the Greens gave me advice. I just poitned out the Green party would like you to buy a car and drive it till it dies. I don't do that

In regards to that, why would you "need your head examined to buy a new car and just run it till it dies"? that is the cheapest way to buy and maintain a car. Even with repair costs to constantly upgrade the car over the lifetime will never "save" you money. I think you need to look into calling someone "illiterate" when the advice you are giving is wrong.
That’s similar to the advice people got to upgrade their car to get cheaper tax, seemingly unaware that the couple of hundred they would save on tax would never be paid off by the thousands they had to pay to upgrade car

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003840#Comment_122003840

to be fair, you need deep pockets to buy any new vehicle these days. There was never value in cars, but seems exceptionally bad at present. Also with things not built to last anymore, it definitely feels like they're pushing us to change more regularly, which means even more outlay and less money in the pocket for disposable income.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003883#Comment_122003883

In all fairness in the real world people who drop €40k, €60k, whatever on a shiny new car don't drive it till it falls apart. More Green Party hogwash. Btw do you follow this Green advice?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004106#Comment_122004106

Some people do, some don't

The most economical way is buy a car and then drive it till it falls off the road

As I posted above I don't personally do that and I know it costs me a lot more.

"More Green Party Hogwash" really? buying a car and driving it into the ground is a lot better for the environment than constantly buying new cars because the CO2 generated to build them. Plus loads of cars get destroyed while they are still road worthy because people want a fancy new one.

Any person environmentally minded will know this, has nothing to do with Green Party.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003724#Comment_122003724

Continuously adding pollutants to the atmosphere cannot be sustained. While it may not impact us within our lifetimes, this short-sighted approach overlooks broader consequences. Consider the COVID-19 pandemic. What if a future pandemic predominantly affected children in the western world? It’s not far-fetched to consider that our relentless consumption could trigger a catastrophic event, pushing our planet to a tipping point.

The Green Party has made commendable progress with the introduction of bicycle lanes, electric vehicles, and the promotion of solar panel installations in residential areas. Change is a gradual process and doesn’t occur overnight. People just can't accept that because they moan about every political party and don't like being told what to do.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003728#Comment_122003728

EV sales have slowed down due to a price war started by Tesla that hurt EV credibility, misinformation and anti-green traditionalists talking rubbish online. Nothing else. All this shite about queueing at public chargers and range is straight out of the mouths of ICE owners.

roosterman71

Looks like the EU have done a U-turn on the green path too

While the previous strategic agenda features several mentions of the importance of both the environment and sustainability, the new draft fails to mention the word sustainability once. The only mention of the environment is in the context of “promoting an innovation- and business friendly environment”. 

Likewise, references to supporting a “green transition” have been dropped entirely. 

https://www.arc2020.eu/goodbye-green-and-fair-hello-fortress-europe-eco-ambitions-dropped-from-eu-leaders-draft-5-year-plan/

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004276#Comment_122004276

"Talking rubbish online"…. 😂

The irony!

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004856#Comment_122004856

Assuming you’re critical of climate change concerns, it’s not particularly ironic. That’s essentially the recurring response from those who hold anti-climate views. Often, it’s accompanied by a laughing emoji or an unsubstantiated complaint about the government. Unfortunately, there are no concrete facts presented, nor any alternative strategies proposed—just a continuation of the status quo with hands metaphorically tied behind your backs.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004276#Comment_122004276

did you ever think, that maybe, the people who choose to not buy an ev, simply don't want one. The market decides demand, and currently it seems a majority of the market don't want to go down the route of ev's.

And anecdotally, from talking to friends, family, colleagues etc, most people reckon they still have one more ice in them before they take the plunge on an ev.

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004871#Comment_122004871

"Anti-climate views" 😂🤣

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004871#Comment_122004871

The tone of psuedo-superiority dripping off these posts is quite typical.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004276#Comment_122004276

A price war that reduced prices lead to a fall in sales. That`s a new one to me. But then greens as a collective are not the sharpest knives in the drawer when it comes to economics. You have only to look at their proposals for electricity generation here to see that. I posted here some time ago about my brother-in-law who took a chance on buying a new EV. After 3 months he got shot of it due to range and all the time wasted recharging at public chargers.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004871#Comment_122004871

So we are back to anyone who doesn`t agree with me is a climate change denier are we ?

For a group that cannot give even an estimate of what their electricity generation proposals here would cost, and who were happily ignoring what their proposals on agriculture would do to global food security while beating us over the head with the harm we were doing to the developing world on climate change, the arrogance really is astounding.

But then with greens, very much like all religious cults, as you alluded to in another of your posts it`s do what I say and don`t ask questions. I along with others have been asking for a cost for their proposed electricity generation plan here, what was the point in looking for Irish cattle numbers being culled, and what is up with this E.U. dodgy bookkeeping on wood burning, a game we have now become more involved in, and regarding it as carbon neutral.

To date I have seen no answers to any of those, but as a new poster here, perhaps rather that pontificating, you can provide the answers

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004879#Comment_122004879

The concept is straightforward. If you’re in the market for a new car, consider purchasing an electric vehicle. Although the manufacturing process of EVs isn’t perfect, there’s no need to buy a car that releases harmful emissions in this day and age. Alternatives are available now, and even a small contribution can make a difference. The resistance to green initiatives is merely a reluctance to adapt to modern times. Alter your habits. After all, they’re just cars.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004988#Comment_122004988

Let me break it down then. Tesla slashed the prices of its new vehicles towards the end of 2023, compelling other manufacturers to follow suit. The Tesla Model Y is the best selling car in the World today. BYD also entered the market with low price EVs. This led to a situation where anyone who purchased a new Electric Vehicle in the middle or latter part of 2023 found themselves in negative equity, a common occurrence with new cars but further exagerated in this case. The decrease in new EV prices had a domino effect on used EVs, rendering them virtually worthless, as consumers could easily purchase a new Model Y for €44k. A three-year-old ID4 priced at €37k lost its appeal. As a result, used cars began to accumulate, dealerships ceased accepting them, and media coverage ensued, starting with Harry’s Garage, followed by Nadia, among others. This phenomenon is not confined to this country; it’s a global issue as we know. EVs have simply undergone a market price correction. Diesel cars faced a similar situation a few years ago, but it went largely unreported because many people erroneously associate EVs with a global conspiracy to control their lives. However, EVs will recover, and automakers are persisting in their efforts. In a year or two, EVs will bounce back. Purchasing a new ICE vehicle would be irrational at this point. It’s outdated technology, and automakers are phasing it out. Don’t let the misinformation spread by social media persuade you that ICE vehicles are here to stay, because they’re not.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005126#Comment_122005126

This isn’t about politics, my friend. It’s simply unbearable to hear people constantly disparaging eco-friendly initiatives just to oppose the government. It’s truly baffling why some individuals can’t grasp the concept that we can’t keep polluting our planet indefinitely. Don’t you worry about the legacy you’re leaving for future generations?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005275#Comment_122005275

Also, the manufacturers said for years as the production of EV increased the manufacturing costs and battery costs would reduce, this was never a secret.

This is article from 2020.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90586803/the-price-of-electric-car-batteries-has-dropped-89-in-10-years

I do admit that some manufacturers pumped up the price of cars to increase profit, standard supply and demand. With covid, more people worked from home, mileage dropped and people invested in solar which was natural then to move towards electric cars. This did not help now when companies reduced prices and people who bought at peak prices

You would swear this never happened with car before, from 2017 when diesel was no longer wanted and people ended up with a car which they paid high money for and suddenly because of dieselgate people didn't want second hand. It was around that time the UK started to transport huge number of diesel to Ireland which still had a massive second hand market. Hence why the government had to change the import rules along with Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/mar/04/diesel-environment-ban-tax-duty-emissions-values

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005373#Comment_122005373

Indeed, it was inevitable that the cost of electric vehicles would decrease. It’s true that they were initially overpriced, only to adjust to a more realistic market value earlier this year due to numerous factors. I didn’t mention your point because it’s quite apparent that EV sales have slowed even with them costing less now. However, it’s equally clear that this is due to the minimal price difference between new and used models, which allows dealerships to maintain their profit margins on older vehicles. Furthermore, misleading information circulating in the media is unfortunately leading to increased confusion among the public and I think this is the main driving force behind the drop. Also a lot of people connect EVs to politics, which is completely ridiculous when you think about it.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003728#Comment_122003728

"The government has set a target of 175,000 EV sales by the end of 2025,
and 945,000 by 2030. Even if every car sold from tomorrow was fully
electric, the government would still fall short, and in fact less than
20 per cent of new car sales are electric currently."

This is pretty much the same story across every Green "binding commitment" metric that I've seen. We're going to come nowhere close to any of them by 2030.

It was all well and good for our government to claim they'd achieve them a decade away, but its going to get really interesting as we hit 2028/2029 and we're absolutely miles (hundreds of thousands of cars in this case) away from hitting them.

Even just specifically on EVs, will we see massive grants given out to people to upgrade their cars? Or will the government just quietly rubbish the "binding commitment"? One of the two will have to happen, and I'd be inclined to believe its far more likely the latter.

The completely unrealistic Green policy as usual just failed to account for real world conditions - rural people who need to drive long distances, people in cities who don't have a driveway or underground parking to charge a car, and the vast numbers of drivers in Ireland who simply just can't afford to buy a new car. Basically everyone who isn't an upper middle class leafy suburban type, ie a Green voter.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005445#Comment_122005445

Some people are so afraid of change, they will use any excuse. It doesn't matter if the depreciation was high etc etc….you will see a long list of excuses.

What these people don't realise is that long term it won't make a difference. Ireland has no say in terms of what manufacturers make. If manufactures all want to push ahead with electric and hybrids etc they don't care what Ireland wants to do. They will just do it.

Plus blaming it on the Green Party is more hilarious, they are a tiny party in a tiny car market in Europe. Do people think VW are ringing them up asking them why they should make electric cars?

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004223#Comment_122004223

Why is it then that current Govt policy, presumably cheer leaded by the Greens, requires 2 year old EVs to be scrapped so the owner can get a grant for a new one? Hypocrisy no?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005656#Comment_122005656

I have no idea what policy this is

Not sure why you ask if this is "cheer leaded by the Greens" when you responded to a post of mine this morning saying it was ridiculous for the Green party to expect people to buy a car and then drive it till it is finished.

creedp

The UK never shipped used diesels to Ireland. Irish dealers and private buyers sought them out as they were of a higher standard and better value than the Irish equivalent, even after the punitive VRT was added on.

David Gokhshtein

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058211251/green-policies-are-destroying-this-country

This share is amazing. Useful information.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005703#Comment_122005703

It was well reported at the time

Here is an article giving you advice on how to take advantage of the "diesel dump"

https://www.thejournal.ie/popular-diesel-imports-4190680-Aug2018/

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005584#Comment_122005584

Hyundai, Kia, VW, Toyota, etc etc are more than happy to supply you with an ice at present. If they didn't, ICEs couldn't be purchased. So no Irish car purchasers are not dictating global supply of ice cars and are only purchasing what the market wants to supply