The Kerry Babies Case

You are probably correct, as I have been told Joanne Hayes wants to forget about the whole thing, even when articles are about her innocence.

The couple and their lawyer seem to be clutching at straws. Comes across as trying everything to delay the investigation.

from one of the articles above it mentions that it’s only via a court that it can be “proven” that they are the parents - so obviously a legal technicality here .

Gardai are apparently still ongoing with the investigation and have said they’ll submit a file once ready - who knows that could be this year or two years time- all depends on what work they’re doing and the challenges of doing that investigation.

As for who killed this poor baby, it doesn’t seem likely that anyone will be charged - a number of different scenarios could have played out at the time - I think it’s likely there is a person or persons still alive today who know what happened and why - but without their statement I don’t see this progressing to a murder trial

Indeed - take a general scenario not related to this case of course as an illustrative example -baby given up for adoption at birth - parents assume all is well and that baby was adopted somewhere in the world -

If you’re given legal advice the general consensus would be to take it - there’s lots of things people may naturally “wish” to do, but may not always be in their best legal interests to do so - especially if they are a line of enquiry in a murder investigation

The Guards voluntarily obtained DNA samples from locals to try to identify baby John, I don't think his older brother was aware they were related.

"Now he offers a totally different defence - that the "purported DNA" tests were wrong."

It would be very easy to prove they weren't wrong.

Up until now I believe the story was that they didn't admit to being the parents, which is different to denying the fact.

O'Connel strikes me as a Gerry O'Carroll type.

He had two brothers but the indo article doesn't say if they are younger or older.

Call be skeptical, but I believe the family were targeted.

It sounds freaky alright, too freaky, which is why I'm skeptical.

I don't believe the States connection, how would DNA taken in the States for what I believe was a minor offence be matched to a 40 year old murder in Cahirciveen? If it was the case it must have been the Baby John investigation in Caherciveen that found the link, in other words they went looking.

They knew the family.

https://www.thejournal.ie/kerry-babies-how-arrests-were-made-dna-computer-mapping-6027696-Mar2023/

"Gardaí also obtained a full DNA profile for the deceased child, which meant that investigators could call on certain individuals and ask them to provide their DNA if they suspected they had a link to the case."

Now I don't understand the legalities around familial DNA in Ireland, but having identified the potential parents from offspring, siblings, cousins etc. it must only be a short step to legally connect Baby John to the actual parents.

Chewbacca defence.

Whoever gave the DNA sample that led to the arrest of this couple, the DNA tests which are now at issue are those which the Gardai took from the couple.

The results of those DNA tests, which were provided to the Gardai within 48 hours, were a match to the DNA of Baby John. It is astonishing if their solicitor is now contesting these results i.e. denying that his clients are the parents. He makes great play of the fact that they gave the samples "voluntarily" but he must have advised them that the Gardai have power to take DNA samples even without consent. He hopes that this case never gets to court (which would be a scandal in itself) and, it seems, his clients want to maintain, despite the conclusive DNA evidence, that they are not the parents.

my guess is if they were going to be charged with anything it would have happened long before now…

They may never be charged but they should hang their heads in shame for the rest of their lives for not coming forward and ending Joanne Hayes nightmare. DNA doesnt lie. They may not have been responsible for baby Johns murder but they would have had to have known it was their baby. This was a huge news story for the last 40 years and Joanne Hayes was put through hell. They cannot use the excuse that they did not know or were not aware - ie they had a baby boy ( secretly it would seem), baby was taken away, baby boy found murdered in same county a few days later. Shame on them for remaining silent. I would have had sympathy for them if they had voluntarily came forward but their secret was accidently revealed through science.

If someone took the child to put him up for adoption or to put him into care, why wouldn't they do that? Why kill him?

i honestly don't know, its just we see the world differently now. I'm not making excuses for what happened, just think it is possible, albeit naively, that they didn't join the dots. Or certainly in the early years.

The dna proved a match but they maintain they are not the parents, was dna illegal obtained from them as I believe the sibling unknowingly offered up as many in the area did freely

This case baffles as no headway, dpp file sent etc.,

I think you've misread that article.

This is the latest statement from the Garda Press Office from that article;

"Gardaí have maintained silence to date, but this week the Garda Press Office confirmed that “the investigation into the murder of Baby John is continuing and a file will be prepared for the Director of Public Prosecutions in due course”.

Here's the context of the statement you quoted;

"Garda sources confirmed at the time that DNA tests taken on samples from the couple would be critical in the investigation and it is understood the tests prove conclusively that the couple were the baby’s parents.

“Forensic Science Ireland carried out an analysis on the swab samples from both suspects, and the analysis found that the chances of anyone else other than the two suspects being the parents of Baby John were so infinitesimally small as to be irrefutable,”

said one source.According to the source, the samples were taken shortly after 9pm on March 23rd, when the man and woman were being processed at Listowel and Castleisland Garda stations."

That to me reads like an old statement rehashed and nothing to do with Padraig O'Connell's statement.

I am very doubtful that we can believe a word out of the mouths of the parents. They’re delusional to deny any genetic link. That baby was born (presumably in Cahersiveen to the 19yr old mother), lived for 5 days, was taken for a paperless adoption and then a newborn baby boy was found dead 6km away… convienently the mother’s now dead brother is getting the blame. Her father was dead and another Garda who was a neighbour had a daughter who gave a baby up for adoption at the same time. Are we seriously going to believe that they just never suspected anything…

I can’t believe that any local, especially a Garda would be stupid enough to throw a body in the water and not expect it to reappear quite quickly.

I have heard that it was known in his family in Killorglin what had happened. They married, had two sons and lived happily ever after until they were finally identified.

For what they did to the Hayes family, they deserve all that they get. You won’t convince me of their innocence either. The whole thing is too convenient.

I didn't misread the Garda statement. I quoted the same section on the DNA evidence which you highlighted and which directly contradicts the claim made a week earlier by the couple's solicitor. If you think that's just coincidence, let me introduce you to a Nigerian Prince whose funds are tied up due to an unfortunate misunderstanding.

I understood that the Gardai were confirming what they already had said about the DNA. Try reading my posts again.