The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

I have thought it through logically. That's why I'm in favour of splitting Dublin alone. I don't amalgamations, so long as they are voluntary. The reason that they can stay voluntary is because teams like Louth, Armagh etc. (or indeed any other county except Dublin) are not causing irreparable damage to the competition by being the beneficiaries of a terribly unfair setup. However, in Dublin's case, as they are uniquely unfairly advantaged, they should be treated in a unique, (although still positive) way and be split on an involuntary basis if necessary as it seems there will never be sufficient buy-in from their own supporters for a split to happen. In my view, this is misguided, as Dublin will benefit as much, if not moreso from a split than all other counties, but I recognise the reality of the situation we are in. I'm also okay with a complete overhaul of provincial championships, as long as Dublin are split first.

Regarding a second stadium, this has been dealt with numerous times over the course of this thread, so I won't rehash old ground. In short, there is no need for a new stadium. The new Dublin divisional sides can all share Croke Park and Parnell Park. Given the short duration of Gaelic Football games, this will be easy to facilitate with some scheduling considerations. While this is not an ideal solution, it is clearly far, far better than the status quo where Dublin maintain all of their unfair advantages in a single team and continue damaging the prestige, integrity and fairness of the All-Ireland competition.

Gaelic Games are not struggling in Dublin, contrary to what you claim. There is adequate number of clubs and players and the funding that Dublin alone have received have gone some way to developing the sport there (this itself is not objectionable, the issue is that Dublin alone were favoured, despite all their other innate advantages). There is also a lot of competition from other sports outside of Dublin- this seems to be completely acknowledged by people who think everywhere outside Dublin is GAA only. A better way to view things would be to assess what would happen without a split- a continued decline in interest as people realise it's not worth the time, money and effort to play or follow the sport in this currently terribly unfair environment.

Interesting why Dublin "alone". And your post implies that Dublin MUST spilt involuntarily. Yet any amalgamations have to be voluntary? Why that distinction?

If the goal is "fairness" in the GAA surely all counties should be treated the same as long as it brings about fairness in the GAA.

I would argue it is not Dublin who are causing "irreparable damage" to the GAA. Dublin have clearly brought forward the last 20 years or so.

Division 1 in the national league has never being as strong. What is causing "irreparable damage" to the GAA is the antiquated provincial structure. And teams such as Armagh, Meath, Kildare who need to be amalgatmated because they are drastically underachieving in the current set up. Poorly run counties despite their infrastructure, relative wealth (compared to most counties) and have large populations as well.

Remember when teams progress following the provincials. That is when the AI proper begins. When the last time you can remember that Armagh, Kildare and Meath showed "obvious" progression outside the provincial set up. Nevermind within it.

Gaelic Games in Dubiin is struggling in parts as I as I have already stated. Clontarf are not doing well in football, the massive catchment area of Clondalkin is just served by one club Round Towers. It has been decades since Thomas Davis from Tallaght has had senior success. You speak of Dublin as if it is one homogenous group. There are clearly defined soccer, rugby and GAA areas Dublin. Much more so than other counties in Ireland.

A weakened Dublin team (split) will mean a weakened GAA, losing massive numbers to other codes. As it is on a national level since 2013 Dublin clubs have only been successful in winning the AI club title on three occasions (Vincents, Boden and Kilmacud). Mullinaughta of Longford and Rathnew of Wicklow have beaten Dublin clubs in recent times.

The most recent Dublin All Ireland Club win was thanks to the imported Galway man Shane Walsh, who will soon be followed with his countyman Comer. Country clubs outside Dublin not have to suffer the import of stars like this. The reality is Dublin club football is more likely to benefit country lads living in Dublin than Dublin players themselves. Dublin again maintaining the standard of GAA for the country as whole.

The dynamics of Dublin GAA is a far different one to any other county in Ireland. The GAA is very dependant on Dublin whether you like to admit it or not. If Dublin are spilt who will fill the void? Who will draw the crowds? Who will inspire the most number of young impressionable minds? They will likely just move to other codes and the GAA will be worse because of it. Unless there are amalgamations in other counties for the good of the game. Which you feel extremely reluctant about, for some reason.

The reality is the largest population is always in the capital City. Before Dublin's success with Heffernan in the 70's. Gaelic Football was viewed as a "cluchie sport". The fans on the hill used to sing "You'll never walk alone". The Dublin centric songs had yet to appear. The most current successful Dublin clubs were founded by country people who moved to Dublin, from outside Dublin.

A spilt Dublin is not going to have the same "pull" the marketing men will look elsewhere, youngsters will be drawn to other codes.

It is not lost on me that you seem extremely reticent on the amalgamation idea (voluntary), yet are extremely enthusiastic about a Dublin spilt (involuntary). That to me is very telling of itself. As you seem to have implicity considered the implications of potential amalgamations, but not the implications of a Dublin split.

I wonder why that is?

You casually say new "Dublin divisional sides" (plural) would share Croke Park and Parnell Park!! What about teams from the Southside? Do you know what Dublin traffic is like?

A new stadium would be needed if there is a Dublin spilt in order to have a home, a place in the community. To create a fanbase etc. That is what the GAA is about. Community.

Your roughshod idea seems very ill thought out and is just mainly intent on spitting Dublin by hook or by crook to hell with the practical consequences of such a move.

Exactly I have said this about Kildare and Meath. On this thread I even listed their loses to teams besides Dublin in the championship and qualifiers etc. As many from Meath and Kildare were using Dublin as an excuse. It was shocking stuff.

The reality is I suspect many in the GAA as a whole are extremely thankful of the trojan work Dublin have done in the evolution of Gaelic Games. Meath and Kildare have not doing anything of note for Gaelic games in their own county never mind nationally.

The proximity of Meath and Kildare to Dublin should be advantagous University's that their young lads go to. Training etc. The areas of Meath and Kildare are some of the fastest growing populations in the country. Yet somehow they are STILL underachieving.

Maybe some Dublin GAA people should be sent in to "babysit" both counties? Is that what they want? Are Meath and Kildare fans calling those in their county boards thick?

As they clearly don't seem to know what they are doing. Kildare and Meath should not be struggling against the likes of Westmeath, Carlow, Wicklow, Sligo.

Meath have had a "centre of excellence" since 2015 total cost 4.2m 23 acres of land.

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2015/09/20/dunganny-gaa-facilities-officially-opened/

Maybe they should rename it "Centre of underachievement"? Still in division 2 at the time of writing 2024.

I mean Meath had to go back to basics with O'Rourke a complete rebuild after years of pure sh!te. He openly admits that he is trying to copy Dublin's style.

Turlough O'Brien has said that Kildare are "not in touch with the modern game" https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0218/1433022-naive-kildare-not-in-tune-with-modern-game-obrien/

Could you get any more damning criticism ?

And I have seen a lot of Kildare over the years the players are there. So anyone who says that is the issue are lying, IMO.

Kildare and Meath have to look at the gowdaws running their County Boards, instead of enviously looking at what Dublin have achieved.

Kildare and Meath GAA people should be thanking Dublin for evolving the Gaelic Football, beyond rigid defences, with little or no movement. Now Gaelic Football which has never seen a higher standard of division 1 play IMO.

It is up to Kildare and Meath to get their acts together as simple as that. Otherwise an amalgamation of the counties with others should come sooner rather than later. Maybe a deadline should be set?

Derry by contrast are a team that have shown what can be done, by a team playing to their strengths they do not have a deep panel, they do not have many clubs. This is a side who recently was playing div4! But I would argue whoever beats Derry (in the championship proper) will likely win Sam.

If I was from Meath or Kildare I would be really ashamed of my own county, to be honest.

Population Kildare - 246,977 

Population Meath - 220,826

Population Derry -  237,000 (and half don't even play GAA) - it is really about 115,000.

Never read some much bollocks in a while. Dublin are where they are because they are basically a professional outfit. If Derry, Kerry , mayo or anyone else was in Leinster they would be in the same situation as kildare or Meath. They might compete for a year or two but not over the long term, is impossible. Basically like Accrington Stanley competing with man city.

I would also argue Kildare have been over achieving underage in the last ten years on beating Dublin regularly at schools, minor and u20. It doesnt follow through to senior because they don't have the financial backing Dublin have very simple.

If I was from Dublin I would be ashamed to be honest winning all those all Ireland's by cheating no different than man city.

Better off making the whole thing professional and at least it would be a level playing field , the dubs celebrating winning every second all Ireland due to their professionalism is quiet frankly really embarrassing.

I addressed this in my own response to tobefrank321, so please read that so I don't have to repeat myself. I'm glad you accept that population is an enormous advantage though and think Kildare and Meath's relatively large populations are grounds for additional shame given their relative underperformance in recent years. But then look at Dublin's population relative to both- over a million more than either, on top of other advantages! This is what I am referring to when I say the deck is unfairly stacked in favour of Dublin currently.

If Kildare and Meath had populations the size of Dublin, funding like Dublin, home advantage like Dublin and were achieving their current results, then yes, it would be embarrassing. But this can't happen. What can happen is we split Dublin to reduce their advantages, and enhance the competition and sport for all counties.

You are proving my point Kildare have been successful at underage why have the players have not come through. It is not bollocks it hard facts. Sometimes the truth hurts. Senior level at Kildare has been inept for a long long time.

If remember correctly Dublin were not in div2 and all ALL their games. Like complete and utter gobshites. Who's fault is that? Were they thinking of Dublin/ Kildare have players like Daniel Flynn who loads of counties would love to have.

What financial backing have Derry have they came from Div4 to Sam contenders.

The "professional" Dublin stuff is the biggest spoof going. They all work and many have real intense jobs like Dr. Jack McCaffery.

The only time Kildare were ever successful at senior was when they got a load of blow in's. A Kerry man as manager with his son, a Cork player, A Tipp man etc.

Beyond racing I don't think the "best in class" are the administrators in Kildare. Kildare GAA is just badly run. If you give money to people who cannot run things properly it will be just wasted.

The "East Coast Project" was announced back in 2016.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-to-target-east-coast-in-response-to-big-growth-in-population/34900748.html

Maybe Kildare and Meath should be designated as "weaker counties" like Leitrim back in the 90's where Delclan Darcy (Dublin born, Leitrim parents) played for Leitrim before he made the Dublin panel.

There could be a "five Dub" limit for Meath and Kildare.

You did not answer the question why should amalgamations be voluntary and a Dublin spit voluntary? That makes no sense. Amalgqmating Louth, Meath, Armagh and Kildare would immediately increasre that new teams promise of success. A LARGER player base. All four of those counties are struggling. And there is a connection between counties in many cases. I could use your exact same point about loyalties developing in such an amalgamation as you did with your Dublin spilt argument.

So why does one have to be voluntary and one involuntary? It seems to imply you would not like it as a Kildare/Meath supporter but expect a Dublin supporter to accept a spilt irregardless And repeated your other points without addressing ANY practicalities. I could have copied and pasted your previous post and it would be vritually identical. Do you not want to address the issues I raised or what?

For instance how would a Southside Dublin team playing on the Northside be practical? For travelling? For creating a fanbase? For a sense of community? How would that be a workable solution?

Dublin are not unquietly advantage, in fact they are uniquely disadvantaged. Look at the economies of scale. And available land. That is not the issue outside Dublin for most other counties.

Cost of land on the abandoned spawell site (just the land) cost over 9m euro (over 8m British pound equivalence)

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/gaa/dublin-gaa-seek-planning-permission-31436301

In contrast the WHOLE centre of excellence in Tyrone cost 8m British pounds.

https://tyronegaa.ie/club-tyrone/garvaghey-centre/

How have Dublin caused irreparable harm to the game? Are you only viewing it through the prism of Leinster? Because the fall off of Kildare and Meath is not a Dublin issue. It is a Meath and Kildare issue. Look at their performances

That has been shown in the league and beyond the provincials. The truth is Dublin have brought Gaelic Football on leaps and bounds. Tactically the game has never been better, with plenty of innovation.

Also your statement that Dublin are unfairly advantage? Being in the capital city has vastly different economies of scale, there are more clubs for a start. Dublin does not even have a home stadium fit for purpose. It was the guts of a decade before Croke Park stopped being a complete disadvantage for the footballers/ Kerry and Tyrone loved playing there etc. Meanwhile the Dublin hurlers really struggle there. Argabley Kerry still love Croke Park the wide pitch suits them. Also Croke Park does not do Derry any harm.

To pretend that Dublin don't have severe competition from other sports that others don't is a farce. Most of the main soccer clubs in Ireland are from Dublin, the best province historically is Leinster. The marketeers flock there it sells, they are well to do and spend money.

The truth is because the badly run Kildare and Meath County Boards. Dublin could play any Leinster side outside croke park and would still win pulling up. Dublin footballers have played in Portlaoise, Longford etc in recent times and won.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/sport/dublin-v-carlow-live-updates-13133562

I think most people are more tired of Dublin's unfair advantages than they are with other counties' excuses.

One important thing to remember with Mayo is that they played all of those finals away from home, whereas Dublin were in their home stadium for all of them. Easily worth a few points and many of them were indeed one point margins. So we see again how home advantage helps Dublin win titles unfairly.

And it is Dublin's fault that other teams in Leinster in particular are underperforming. The harm to the prestige, integrity and fairness to the Leinster Championship that stems from Dublin winning off their platform of unfair advantages means that interest and participation is waning, massively. So if we split Dublin and address this unfairness, this would enhance the competition and all teams who compete in it, massively.

You have yet to explain how they are "unfair" other than in your head with no facts. I have explained the disadvantages that Dublin have clearly backup with sources - economies of scale etc

Yet you keep peddling this "unfair advantage" line Dublin. But fail to see how Dublin is a county like no other so has to be treated differently due to it's inherent disadvantages. Dublin do not even play in their own stadium they are forced to play in GAA HQ because Parnell Park is not large enough. Dublin have played outside Croke Park plenty of times and still won in the championship as well. They adapt. It is not ideal being defacto homeless AI champions.

You are just pretending you want the best for the GAA. The reality is you won't countenance amalgamations unless they are voluntary for no other spurious reason other than Dubln have "caused irreparable damage". (Despite Dublin being integral to the evolution of the game of football).

And the very same argument you use for a Dublin spilt could be used for potential amalgamation.The way Kildare and Meath have run their senior set up has done "irreparable damage" to football. They do not deserve to be independent entities much longer. As it is proven despite Meath and Kildare's clear advantages (Population resources etc compared to many other counties) they are not competently run. Meath and Kildare are supposed to be football counties! And fans see themselves as top football counties. Instead they get farce. That is unfair on Meath and Kildare fans.

The decision to amalgamate should be taken out of Kildare and Meath hands. Put both counties out of their misery making a larger player base and a new County Board. Plus it would be great to see Mulroy from Louth in the mix. Mixing Louth Kildare. Armagh and Meath. Suddenly they would be in AI contention. Imagine the interest created. Such an amalgamation should beat a spilt Dublin side. Sponsors would be fighting over each other to get involved.

New loyalties would develop among the "Wee Royal Orchard" - team mascot Lilly. If fairness is your goal you would be just as enthusiastic about amalgamations as you would about a Dublin spilt. But you are clearly not so your sincerity has to be severely questioned on this thread.

To claim that Dublin are at fault for Leinster teams underperforming is a laughable one. Considering how poor Kildare and Meath have been outside Leinster.

You seem to talking between two sides of your mouth on the one hand you agree with provincial restructuring yet claim Dublin have ruined the prestige of Leinster! You are only codding at this stage. Tying yourself in knots of your own making.

Munster has never had any "prestige" for years and it has never done Kerry any harm. Nor has it ever being questioned by you. Which to me says that your focus is a self serving and self interested one. Which is not based on the future of Gaelic Football at all. You only want to see change go one way. One that suits your mindset.

I would have no problem with a voluntary Dublin spilt as long other counties in Gaelic Football merge. Then new counties could be created geographically and based on population etc.

However it strikes me that the truth is the ONLY county you want spilt/change is Dublin. But life is about compromise if Dublin spilt involuntarily the next logical step is involuntary amalgamations.

As a true GAA person you would agree with this. But you have placed the caveat of "voluntary" on amalgamations because you are self serving towards your own county, and it is not really based on fairness at all.

Your end goal/dream is the destruction of Dublin no matter what. But wanting to keep your own as it would give you some sort of perverse pleasure.

But the current attitude you have of involuntary Dublin spilt and voluntary amalgamations actually go against your "dream" of a Dublin spilt into divisions.

Because currently -

1. The GAA is an extremely democratic organisation
2. The provincials are slowly being phased out - the link with league and championship is the start of things
3. The "Real championship" starts after the provinicals for three provinces bar one.

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Although you may dream of a Dublin spilt (however spurious your reasoning). The fact that you are so exuberant in this line of argument, really contrasts your attitude towards amalgamations. It makes you look foolish, and insincere. Your true agenda is shown.

The reality is for a long time the majority of provincials have been slightly more than a preseason competition. I assume by your username you were born in 91?

If so the last competitive period of the provincials would have been when you were in your early teens.

The GAA old farts have slowly set the wheels turning so the provincials can be phased out. If you are dreaming of those days to return, they never will.

If you are dreaming of a Dublin spilt involuntarily into not just "two teams" but "divisions" while at the same time being reluctant to your own county amalgamating using the caveat (voluntary) it does seem extremely hypocritical and insincere.

Even the old brigade of the GAA administrators have slowly moved on, but you seem to dream of the status quo about 25 years ago. As long as it does not involve Dublin.

If so, that is a strange future you envisage one that could have serious consequences for Gaelic Football in an age where marketing sport to youngsters is an ever more difficult task, in a crowed space. Involving not just Irish sports, foreign sports but other pastimes.

You were running the GAA I would seriously question whether er the organisation would be making an annual profit and financially healthy over the next decade. As much of the profit Gaelic Football makes for the GAA is down to Dublin football. Crowds, marketing it all points to success not just for Dublin but for the GAA as a whole.

I think your dream as a it currently stands, would only lead to a weaker GAA. A poorer standard of football. Redundancies in the GAA as less money would be brought in through sponsorship, attendances and so on.

Whether you like it or not Dublin is the crown jewel of Gaelic Football in the GAA. They are the example for all others to follow. Spitting Dublin at the moment would be commercial suicide for the GAA. Amalgamations would make far more sense, it would pool resources and bring in advertisers and revenue.

I've explained it many times, including in my last few posts to you but as always, happy to do it again. You on the other hand have not explained how Dublin are disadvantaged or provided any meaningful sources. You have lied and claimed they are disadvantaged but that's not the same thing. Most of my previous points still stand and haven't been addressed to please re-read my last few posts to understand the dire straits the GAA has found itself in by allowing these unfair Dublin advantages to persist.

These are how the advantages work, in a very abbreviated sense so as to not spend all day explaining it:

1. Dublin have a population over one million greater than the next largest county. As transfers are extremely rare, this is an enormous advantage- it increases the total amount of top centile players in Dublin vs every other county. This means the number of players of not only the quality to play at inter-county level, but be potentially elite, is vastly, vastly higher in absolute terms in Dublin vs every other county. This is a massive advantage and is unique to Dublin in its scale, nature and duration.
2. Dublin's funding, from the GAA, their sponsors and other sources like the Irish government vastly outstrips every other county. This holds true no matter how this is measured; whether by absolute funding, per registered player, per head of population etc. As funding benefits teams in all sports, this benefits both the Dublin inter-county team and all levels of gaelic games in the county. The second part would actually be good if funding was equal across every county, but it's not- Dublin alone have a massive funding gap. But the funding helps to develop Dublin's excellent players to their fullest potential in way that would be impossible anywhere else. This is a massive advantage and is unique to Dublin in its scale, nature and duration.
3. Dublin play most consequential games, most importantly the finals and semi-finals in their de facto home stadium. As home advantage is an advantage in sport, this enables them to win games they might otherwise lose in neutral or away grounds, particularly tight games. This is a massive advantage and is unique to Dublin.

Then we have the fact that Dublin have all these unique advantages in combination, which is even more unfair. Other counties may come close (although not very) on individual metrics, but Dublin alone are advantaged in them all.

I don't know why you keep shiteing on about provincials as I already said I agree with you there. On the other matters such as your lies about diseconomies of scale, lack of competition for other sports outside of Dublin, involuntary amalgamations being required, harms to Leinster counties from Dublin's unfair advantages, you've said nothing new, so please re-read my old posts for my response- what I've said still holds 100% true, again.

I've no animosity towards Dublin, I just want the GAA to do what is best for the game and the organisation and help all counties. In fact, if Dublin won fairly, I'd be delighted for them, but this is just simply not the case. So they should be split to help disperse the advantages described above, to improve competitiveness and save the inter-county game (and game as a whole) from the path of destruction it has been on for some time now.

Only in your head your head paddy your a "real pub talk" man. Student's are professional now are they. No Kildare or Meath person goes to college do they??? You are really running down those counties.

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/gaelic/266890/interview-kildare-gaa-s-david-slattery-talks-career-changes-inter-county-football-and-fitness.html

You must not go to Maynooth Univeristy very often

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/meath/sport/maynooth-university-and-meath-gaa-announce-partnership/a1052417090.html

That is the problem with Kildare and Meath masses it is talk no action. Similar mindsets no real plan, no real structure, no real tactical nous, no development of youngsters. Just moaning from fans. It is impossible to debate with that level of stupidity.

This thread should be renamed "The notions and dreams of Meath and Kildare". The fans seem to have expectations above their stature. Clearly both counties are not being run correctly.

Kildare's only period of success after 1928. About 70 years was as result of blow in's and "blow in" top class manager. What was he paid under the counter we don't know and can only speculate. Think of it, 70 years!

Meath's only relatively recent success after a period of 20 years of doing nothing of note from the late 1960's to the late 1980's was because a home grown class manager. An innovator. Meath have done no innovation since. And have done nothing for the guts of another 20 years not counting the stolen 2010 Leinster Final. Now Meath have had a similar gap. That is not unknown to Meath historically.

Kildare should get Pat Gilroy in and Meath should get Jim Gavin in. Both counties are badly in need of structure and Gaelic Football expertise. Kildare and Meath need men in the know. And all the help they can get. If both counties are not willing to amalgamate this could be solution. At the very least perhaps Jim Gavin could shadow Colm O'Rourke to make sure he is following Dublin's style correctly. And they should improve defensively and tactically as result.

Money won't help counties that are not run correctly. In Africa the missionaries not only build wells for the less fortunate they teach them how to build their own. Meath and Kildare are now Africa's suffering severe famines calling for help. Dublin should heed that call. Jim Gavin and Pat Gilroy should be asked to save both counties since they are not capable of it themselves.

Otherwise Meath should just focus on the likes of the Tailteann Cup every few years that is their "All Ireland".

I am sure there was some great celebrations when Meath won the O'Byrne Cup in 2016 after 10 years. And an unprecedented one close after in 2018.

https://www.the42.ie/meath-longford-obyrne-cup-2565214-Jan2016/

Kildare had great day's winning back to back O'Byrne Cup's in 2013 and 2014.

That is those teams level. And success is all relative. I am sure they were proud days for those involved.

When Meath got promoted to division 1 in 2020 after a 14 year wait. that was achievement that was progress. That is the sort of level Meath GAA is at.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-30977544.html

Meath can also focus maybe the women's football, where the base of players and standard is much lower, not as punishing.

Kildare are consistently great at the racing.

(Niall Slipper's Madden)

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Maybe both counties should stick to what they are good at, if they don't get the two Dublin greats into babysit them.

"Stay in your lane" and lower your expectations a bit. Because historically that is how Kildare and Meath football go decades of noting of note. Unless exceptional management take over. And currently Kildare and Meath have none of that calibre. As simple as that.

Those counties should not be looking enviously at Dublin's achievement and hard work but trying to emulate Dublin in being the best that they can be. That is Colm O'Rourke's mindset. He knows that all success is relative.

The truth is Dublin could play any team any where and still have a good chance of winning. You ignore the fact how Dublin have brought the game of football on in leaps and bounds. Remember the panic the country had over Ulster "blanket defence"? Dublin and Jim Gavin showed the way others followed. Far from "destroying" football. Dublin saved football bringing the game on to new levels. Can you remember a more competitive division 1 league overall? That is Dublin's legacy.

You mention Dublin and Croke Park that is not a Dublin issue that is a GAA issue. The Leinster Council receives more money from Croke Park. Dublin have proven time and again that they can play championship games (Longford, Wexford, Carlow etc) outside Croke Park. The Dublin fans love it the away venue loves the revenue brought in.

It is not lost on me that Congress as a majority voted against that Donegal motion. Where Donegal wanted to remove Dublin using CP as a venue in the super 8's in 2019. Donegal's motion only received 36% support!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-30906611.html

Funding is required for Dublin because of its population and the fact it is the capital. If the GAA neglected Dublin that is about 20% of a potential market lost. If there is no strong Dublin GAA, there is no strong GAA as simple as that. As you know Dublin funding by the GAA was recently cut by 450,000.

https://www.the42.ie/dublin-funding-cut-new-model-gaa-5680361-Feb2022/

So other counties are getting the benefit indirectly from the revenue and sponsorship Dublin GAA can bring in to the GAA as a whole.

The truth is there are few venues that would meet with the demand for tickets that a Dublin "big game" would receive. It would deprive fans of tickets and the GAA of revenue. You seem to forget that Dublin GAA are the biggest earner for the the GAA. That revenue is funnelled back into Dublin grassroots and other counties,

The Leinster Council has made massive money off Dublin for decades.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/leinster-council-to-cash-in-on-massive-dubs-earning-power/26542563.html

This was long before mismanagement by Kildare and Meath. Where those two counties failed to innovate, evolve and improve has left Meath and Kildare where they are today. It is no coincidence that when Micko left and Boylan left that both counties have imploded

The real championship starts after the provincials IMO - which is division 1 in all but name plus a few qualifiers. There are are three teams very close in the betting. Kerry and Dublin who both play a direct style of football (Kerry has copied Dublin), Derry with their counter attacking style (which also copies aspects of Dublin's play, using the keeper as the extra man as well).

Basically the evolution of Dublin has been to the GAA's benefit as whole. I just don't see your "destruction of the game" line at all. Club football has never being more vibrant in the GAA also, plenty of variation in play and the spilt season has definitely helped.

If you believe that the Provincial structure is archaic and past it, I don't see this "destruction" of the game you speak of. If anything Dublin has been crucial to the evolution and innovation of the game of football. And I dread to think where Gaelic football would have been without it.

Of course Dublin could play anywhere and have a good chance of winning, they're a great team with great players. The point is that playing all their consequential games at home, including all finals and semi-finals gives them a far better chance of winning than they would otherwise have, especially in tight games where their opposition is almost a match for them. Make no mistake about it, if Dublin weren't at home for all those finals against Mayo, they would have lost at least one of them, probably more if they were playing in Mayo's home stadium.

There still are blanket defences. You frequently see teams including Dublin put 15 men behind the ball and aimless handpassing around the 45 metre line. It's not a thing of the past. There's nothing illegal about it, and it's tactically sound, but Dublin still do it. They don't play attractive football. They probably play more attractive football than Donegal did in 2011 but that's about it.

The destruction of Gaelic football is coming not from Dublin itself, it's from the GAA allowing Dublin to compete off of a platform of unfair advantages. Division 1, and the Championship, would be far more competitive if Dublin were not unfairly advantaged. I've repeatedly said it is not Dublin's fault- I have no axe to grind with them at all, I just want the GAA to finally start putting the GAA first and strip them of their unfair advantages by splitting them.

Why don't you want to grapple with the three main advantages I identified namely massive population advantage, enormous funding that is disproportionate no matter how it is measured vs everyone else and playing all consequential games at home?

I've answered most of these false claims many times before, but as ever, I am happy to do so again. I'm not a wind-up merchant at all. I agree this friendly discussion can be repetitive at times but that's because some partisan Dublin "supporters" like you (if you really supported Dublin, you'd favour a split too, but that's another matter) just cannot accept basic facts. The argument gets bogged down when this happens. This thread is years old by this stage, it's not just me who points out Dublin's unfair advantages.

I have explained my position properly, numerous times- in essence, it boils down to: Dublin are unfairly advantaged vs all other counties- the GAA shouldn't have let this arise, but now that it has, it urgently needs to deal with it, ideally by splitting Dublin.

I have nailed my colours to the mast from the start- I want reforms to the GAA that will help all counties.

I don't repeat nonsense, as I don't post any to begin with, I don't contradict myself and my position is fully consistent at all times. I would actually say I'm extremely patient, given how willing I am to answers posts and questions which I have already debunked/answered correctly numerous times previously. It also entitles me to request others answer my question, as I always answer ones that are put to me. In that instance before Christmas, you did accept the point I made eventually, although you then tried to retract that acceptance as I recall; but the point is that I was proven correct there, again.

It's not up to me to "limit the scope of the debate"- I'm not a moderator. I can bring things back to the core issues of money, population and home advantage though, as they are so important to the dominance of Dublin GAA, which is what this thread is about, rather than irrelevancies like horse racing in Kildare or false claims like there being no competition from non-GAA sports outside of Dublin. I'm perfectly happy to accept when I'm wrong, and have been many times in the past. In this case though, my argument is unassailable- Dublin are indeed unfairly advantaged, and no amount of denials of reality can change this fact.

I still can't believe you won't accept how splitting Dublin helps Leitrim! I explained this one repeatedly. In short though, as Dublin are unfairly advantaged, it hurts the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition. This is bad for all teams who participate, as a fair competition is much better for all counties. As Leitrim compete in the All-Ireland, and as the Connaught Championship feeds into, and is part of, the All-Ireland series, splitting Dublin helps them (as it vastly improves the fairness of the competition) , as it helps all counties. It also increases their chances of winning both the Connaught Championship, and the All-Ireland, as Dublin's unfair advantages are dispersed across several teams, rather than concentrated one. This benefit is marginal to begin with, but will increase as the year's progress. Not splitting Dublin, and continuing with the unfair status quo, will cause the exact opposite to happen in every step here, causing interest and participation to want. I'm not sure what is difficult to understand about this? I doubt you care about Leitrim in reality though, you just want something, anything, that means Dublin should not be split. In my case, I really do care about both Leitrim and Dublin though.

So, I will make no apologies for wanting what is right by the GAA, no matter what you say.

1. I also said it's because Dublin alone are unfairly advantaged and splitting them helps to reduce this unfairness- this is actually the main issue and I don't see what is hard for you to understand about this. If they weren't unfairly advantaged, I wouldn't want them split as I have no personal animosity towards Dublin. You said Dublin have brought the game on- there have been tactical innovations, by Dublin and others, but the game is undoubtedly a worse spectacle than it was 15 years ago. And Dublin absolutely play a blanket defence, despite what you falsely claim. Nothing illegal about it, and so do other teams, but they do it.
2. It's quite simple- given that the provincials exist, we should try to make them fairer. They also feed into the All-Ireland series. So while we can abolish the provincials, and I'm happy if they are, we should still split Dublin.
3. I focus on Dublin's unfair advantages as it is the most important issue in the GAA today. It's true to say that everything else pales in comparison. If there were other similarly pressing issues, I would focus on them instead, but there is not. I don't go into the Dublin GAA thread because this thread was set up to take over discussion of this topic as otherwise every thread would lead back to it eventually- I'm happy to abide by this rule. Also I don't want to disrupt the discussion on that thread, if people want to discuss other matters without talking about this, that is fine by me.
   

I've dealt with how splitting Dublin helps Leitrim in my last post- please reread it.

I'll repeat my previous question which you again ignored, despite me answering all your questions, repeatedly: Why don't you want to grapple with the three main advantages I identified namely massive population advantage, enormous funding that is disproportionate no matter how it is measured vs everyone else and playing all consequential games at home?