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Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,235 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I agree it has good information in places but other fora on here that used to be brilliant for information have effectively been abandoned.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭thomas 123



    Agreed. And to be crystal clear this is a comment about Don’t be a dick being a site wide rule vs certain users rule - not a mod bash.

    I had a thread close by a mod recently and he said

    “Thread closed, it’s terrible Joe”

    I could not be arsed ever opening one again, fair enough you could say thread is a clone or to do with another thread - but no, finished it off with that childish and utterly stupid comment acting the smart ass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭yagan


    I can understand that where a niche interest that used to only have boards suddenly would have it's own Facebook group and everyone would head there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,235 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It probably won't be quiet this year given its a clear opportunity for all the obsessional trans bashing. V

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,097 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    "Don't be a dick" is far too ambiguous. I know there's not much alternative but a dickhead to some people is perfectly normal to others. I know this is where mods come in but they aren't robots of course they will all have differing opinions on that matter. Maybe it's time to replace the mods with AI😛



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,235 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yeah but also there used to be a really active LGBT forum. Part of the reason there isnt is because of all the anti LGBT crap. The off the scale obsessional trans bashing has caused a good few really brilliant posters to abandon the site.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Is boards.ie not a for profit enterprise? Why should all the profits be kept by the owners off the back of the mods work protecting them from all these threats?

    It’s a great system for the owners but it’s the user who loses out. Like others have said, some incentives should be considered, it doesn’t need to be a wage even. I for one have no idea why anybody would ever give up their time to police a group of strangers on the internet.

    A free idea for incentives - free premium ads on done deal / adverts(capped). Free for you to take and use or and free for distilled to implement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    Been here over 20 years . The issue apart from demographics is as others said is the legal liability that could run into the hundreds of thousands if they overlook am allegedly liable post. They dont have the resources or strength to fight it so delete is the default position



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Seeing as how there are several moderators on this thread, can anyone explain the logic of the warning in this thread below relating to the use of 'anecdote' and what is or isn't an 'anecdote'.

    Surely 'anecdote' is the direct experience of posters. Another word for it might be reportage or citizen journalism and what's wrong with that? For example, I'm personally aware of two Ukrainian citizens who are not genuine war refugees but it can't be mentioned as this would be 'anecdote'. Boards generally is full of 'anecdote' - people sharing experiences. The site would collapse tomorrow if threadbans were handed out for expressing 'anecdote'. And this particular mod uses their perception of 'anecdote' to hand out warnings, points and threadbans.

    How on earth can you have a current affairs thread that is subject to such arbitrary censure?? This is a good example of why people are driven away from posting.

    Can anyone explain?

    Mod warning posted 06/03/23

    Personal so called anecdotes are what caused the original Ukrainian refugee thread to be closed

    Any more can expect threadbans



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 436 ✭✭Patrick Mahomes


    The don’t be a dick rule doesn’t seem to apply to some of the moderators on the site which I think leads to a lot of the anti mod comments. Those mods don’t lead by example. They feel free to be dicks in areas they don’t mod and seem to get let off for being a dick by because they have mod on their users profile.

    What most users of the site want is consistency with the don’t be a dick rule

    Regards,

    P.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,977 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Awful lot of victims in this thread. Perhaps if you put the same effort you put into dumping on the mods into posting in a “productive” manner, and stopped wasting mod time moaning, the site wouldn’t be in decline.

    It’s very easy to post on this site and stay within the rules. It’s the same for everyone. Lads saying ‘you can’t say anything anymore’ are just either lazy or stupid, you can say whatever you want as long as it’s within the rules.

    Anyone who thinks the mods are out to get them needs to give their head a wobble. If you’re getting in trouble with the mods it’s because of how you post. Obviously, posters who aren’t, constantly, getting attention will be given some “leeway” for stepping out of line but if you’re more out of line than in you can’t play the victim and go crying to “Feedback” about how the big mean old mods are targeting you,

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 58,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Profit. I'd say after Boards pay for server space and the one full time employee they have there's just about enough to keep the lights on tbh.

    On the paid mods thing though is there any site that does that? And would the argument then not turn to "mods are modding based on the site owners agendas rather than being fair and impartial"

    I don't think paid mods is ever a runner tbh

    I'd be much happier if they put the money into making the site more functional for all users as opposed to the mess it's been since Vanilla changeover.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Ah well if that’s the case, then fair enough. Still could give them a few freebies for the mind numbing work they do.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 36,817 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    There's a lot of truth in the above.

    Demographics - an issue that cannot be targetted really as the youth of today don't really go for a Boards style site. However, if Boards is around in 10 or 20 years, the youth of today could well become the Boardsies of 10 years time - possibly.

    User Experience - The site is crap. However, remember what it was like before the move? Constantly crashing, issues a plenty etc, without the move the feeling was Boards would definitely not survive. At least it is somewhat stable now, if a little more crap.

    Posters - the vast majority are the reason why boards is still around. The quality and quantity of their posts makes it the reason why Mods/Admins put in so much free time to weed out the 1%….. until they return and the process starts again.

    Site Management - some Forums are well Modded, both in quality and quantity and rarely have issues. Other Forums have issues, both in the quality of the poster and of the Mods themselves or lack thereof. The whole issue of liability is always in the back of a Mods head, which can seem like stifling discussion/over zealous moderation, but it is sometimes necessary. If would be great if that issue didn't exist - but that's not the case.

    Poor Modding is of course an issue too, we are but human afterall and do make mistakes. I have seen first hand how Admins and CMods do indeed contact Mods in regard to their moderation and indeed have seen Mods De-Modded. But it is better to try to improve a Mod through discussion rather than DeMod - as pointed out, there is a lack of Mods in certain areas and posters aren't exactly putting their hand up to become a Mod. In fact, I can assure you, it can be Very Tiresome and Very Time Consuming to constantly look for Mods in Forums and No poster contacted would actually want to step up. I can certainly see why they wouldn't want the hassle, but if there were no moderation, there wouldn't be a site.

    You are of course correct. Mods or even CMods cannot apply a warning to a Mod but Admins have been messaged to apply a Warning to a Mod for their posts. Not having the old Yellow and Red cards for posts is a real pity. It is a chore for some Mods to edit a post with Mod - Warning issued - but it would certainly help transparency and actually stop the same post getting reported again and again.



  • Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭ Charleigh Tinkling Squadron


    again that’s not the case. You’ll find (this is one of those trust me bro things) the users threadbanned quite quickly are often trouble makers to begin with.

    With enough experience we can almost instantly tell when someone’s giving an opinion to partake in the discussion vs someone just trying to get a rise.

    Also sure as the sky is blue we get it wrong occasionally and that’s why we have cmods and admins to keep things in order. Like if mods are floor staff (using restaurant terminology here so bare with), cmods are supervisors and admins are the managers.

    If there’s a problem with a mod interaction you can report to a cmod to have a look who can then if necessary forward to admin for review. Often I find this doesn’t happen though. A mod interacts, poster either just doesn’t reply or just complains but never goes any further. Then they come here to threads like this and whinge about how unfair the system is when they never bothered to engage with the system for whatever reason.

    To suggest a random assortment of individuals somehow all align with the same views on things is ridiculous as well. I’ve often disagreed with and seen plenty of disagreement between mods, cmods and admins about one thing or another. Even among the AH mods we don’t always share the same opinion on things.

    We also regularly discuss and share opinions on any given topic when we’re unsure. The thing is most users will never see the background workings so it’s easy to feel like we’re just out banning and warning with abandon, but let me promise you whether or not you believe it is up to you, there is absolutely a strong team of people behind us keeping things in check and ensuring no mod goes rouge.

    I also see a lot of people who for whatever reason refuse to use DRP as they feel it’s some sort of foregone conclusion. The fact of the matter is if any mod infracts you unfairly in your opinion but that’s not backed up by the cmod or admin reviewing your dispute it’s probably not all that unfair to begin with.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are of course correct. Mods or even CMods cannot apply a warning to a Mod but Admins have been messaged to apply a Warning to a Mod for their posts. 

    That is interesting. I've never seen that mentioned before.

    So reporting a mod who is being a dick is pointless, unless reported to an Admin.

    Good to know.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 36,817 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Reporting a Mod for being a dick is pointless - no idea why you would think that. A CMod intervenes if necessary and it simply gets pushed up to Admin level if a warning needs to be issued. It's a simple enough thing to do in fairness.

    Just because you think a mod is being a Dick, doesn't actually mean they are of course, the poster reporting might be the Dick for instance.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And it might be the case that the report is justified and the mod is being a dick.

    We're being told on this thread that mods are treated the same as anyone else if they're reported but apparently that is not the case? Reports about mods requires a CMod to bring it to Admin attention?

    Are reports made about mods automatically routed to CMods level?

    Does this apply across all forums? As in, if a mod is reported in a forum other than the one they moderate, does that also require a CMod to look at it?

    How routinely would CMods be checking for these reports?

    Some clarity here would be good.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,215 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    A moderator who is a poster in another forum (any forum outside the forum they moderate) can of course be reported and will be warned if necessary. Moderators have been warned in other forums.

    What Shamobuc meant was a moderator cannot action their co-moderator if the complaint is about their moderation. In that instance it is passed to the Category Moderators to handle. This also happens and moderators are often advised to amend their style of moderating and/or general postimg. Same as posters are often advised to amend their style of posting.

    But, moderators would often advise each other in the background. It's why the moderators forums are very useful. It can be a good place for moderators to bounce ideas off each other. For more experienced mods to steer other moderators in the right direction. So rather than officially "warning" a moderator a co-moderator might just have a word of advice.

    I do believe moderators should be held to a higher standard than the average poster and petty digs at other posters either in posts, or in warnings should not be tolerated. So when this happens it should be reported. But like the average poster a moderator will be spoken to. They will be given advise on how to change. They will be given opportunity to change. They won't be demodded or sitebanned immediately! Same as a poster will be given opportunity to change. If that change doesn't come about and if a moderator continues to be an issue they will be, and have been, removed



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is beginning to look like Current Affairs.

    Cranks complaining that everything is the fault of someone or something else, in Current Affairs it's immigrants, the government, etc etc here it's Mods, Admins and the owners of the site.

    One of my favourite things to do lately is read threads in Dispute Resolution and see all the times posters whinge "I got banned for no reason..."

    But there's always "a reason".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Is a co-moderator obliged to flag such reports up to CMod level, or can they decide to ignore them?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 36,817 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    CMods would look at reports from their Forums, as is normal. If a Mod is reported, they look at the post, if needed, they would contact an Admin to issue a warning. A Mod can also contact an Admin directly if a post by another Mod requires action. It's pretty simple really.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,215 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I suppose everyone can decide to ignore anything they want. But in general moderators want a quiet life! And if a particular moderator is continually causing problems for them in their forum then they will want to sort it out. I obviously don't know if moderators are ignoring issues with co-mods (by fact of if it's being ignored were not being made aware of it !) but I can absolutely guarantee that the Category Moderators can and do discuss issues amongst themselves and call in Admins if they feel it's required.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Over 30,000 Palestinian's have been killed in Gaza, by Israel, since October 7th.

    As you thought it was pertinent to complain about "Israeli bashing" on an un-related thread, I thought it was pertinent to point out the above statistic.

    The Mods clearly have no issue with your post.

    I'm sure they won't have an issue with mine.

    But, given the amount of time you spend on Boards, you know this already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    will it always be pushed up to admin level or is it at discretion of the mod to push it up to admin level?

    ie: if the report receiving mod disagrees with the report will it be pushed up regardless?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 36,817 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    That would be up to the Mod. Just as it would be up to them to issue a warning to a general poster. If it warrants a Warning, it warrants a warning.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It sounds like it's discretionary though, and not automatic?



  • Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    For me the canary, in the mine, were the You Laugh You Lose threads in

    https://www.boards.ie/categories/cool-vids-pics-links

    The older threads used to have hundreds of "likes/thanks" on individual posts, with (what seemed like) hundreds of posters active.

    New thread is a shell of the previous.

    Don't know how this has become a mod bashing thread. That is/was never an issue beyond people learning the culture of the site. Most good mods gave new posters some slack and a DM to explain what was what. I, actually, miss the level of moderation from the 2000s. Far too polarised these days, reflecting real world politics too much for my liking



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 36,817 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    So is every post that is reported in fairness. Just because a post is reported, does not mean it will receive a warning.



This discussion has been closed.
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