Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

Unearthly

For a start I’d purge most of the sub forums. So many dead forums that could easily just be one big thread.

At the moment I just see it as an elderly website in the final phase of its life. It will be a sad day when the bosses pulls the plug. I’ve been here since April 2004

Montage of Feck

Better the graveyard than the sewer! But the internet in general is in a decline of sorts.

Big Bag of Chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121957408#Comment_121957408

Who's going to pay, and where will the money come from? How many employees would be needed?

Green Peter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958356#Comment_121958356

Not sure of the finances to be honest but if mods were paid a small fee maybe they would be more impartial due to the risk of losing the role. At the moment many mods are there because no one else will do it. If you get a bad one in a forum it's the beginning of the end.

Big Bag of Chips

Just as a matter of interest, what would users consider a fair "small fee" to retain good moderators? Who would be in charge of monitoring the performance of moderators and responsible for sacking/withdrawal of payment if certain performances weren't met?

It's a suggestion, but is definitely not one that is in any way workable. Like many things simple suggestions from posters are often not implemented, because if the simple suggestion was viable and workable it would already be in place. People are complaining there's not enough moderators, so how many more are needed? And what should they be paid to keep them interested?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958262#Comment_121958262

yep - I’m no saint but when I’ve got into trouble in the past it was mostly due to lack of moderation in a thread - not just over hours but days - reporting posts did nothing - in the past you reported a post sat back and the mods did their job - now you’re faced with days of being badgered by stupid idiots - the “report posts don’t engage with trolls” just doesn’t work anymore.

Ordinary posters are more than happy to let mods do their job - problem is there’s very few active mods around these days and some of the few remaining are just on over drive and attack the trivial things when there’s much bigger issues to deal with

The whole appeals thing for warnings and bans is also pathetic - a simple 24 hour thread ban can cool the heels - no appeal no bullsh1t taken - but that in itself could solve a lot of issues especially if it went from 1 day to 1 week to 1 month - no appeals no PMs - people would be less likely to keep acting a dick and it would feee up a lot of mod time to actually “patrol” the site

Most people respect mods but when you’re in the receiving end of a d1ckhead poster and you’re the one then sanctioned, then sorry, moderation rightfully will be called a joke on this site

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121957935#Comment_121957935

Mod warning: Abuse. Do not post in this thread again.

Glaceon

I don't personally think that moderation is what caused the decline. I've been here since 2003 under a previous account and there were complaints about moderation even back then, and even when the site was thriving. I also remember a time where the site was a left-wing echo chamber but it certainly isn't that now. You'll never have a free-for-all here because Irish law is pain in the arse. Unlike in the US, websites here are responsible for the content posted by their users. That, combined with article 40.3.2 of the constitution (the "right to a good name"), makes it very easy for an Irish site to be sued and/or silenced. I was around for the whole MCD debacle so there's previous form for it.

To me, the decline is down to a combination of the rise of social media and the Vanilla migration. One of the reasons given for the Vanilla migration was that the previous vBulletin system was too heavily customised and unreliable. Yet, this implementation of Vanilla is most definitely not "vanilla", it's again too heavily customised and unreliable. It was chosen because it was cheap, not because it was the best option. At the same time, I remember the attempts to bring in the responsive site, which was hugely unpopular, so it was probably felt that any new platform had to resemble the old one where possible. But it reminds me of putting a Windows skin on a Linux distro. Sure it might look similar on the outside but it doesn't take long for you to find the differences and it gets jarring.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955633#Comment_121955633

I agree it has good information in places but other fora on here that used to be brilliant for information have effectively been abandoned.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956036#Comment_121956036

Agreed. And to be crystal clear this is a comment about Don’t be a dick being a site wide rule vs certain users rule - not a mod bash.

I had a thread close by a mod recently and he said

“Thread closed, it’s terrible Joe”

I could not be arsed ever opening one again, fair enough you could say thread is a clone or to do with another thread - but no, finished it off with that childish and utterly stupid comment acting the smart ass.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958479#Comment_121958479

I can understand that where a niche interest that used to only have boards suddenly would have it's own Facebook group and everyone would head there.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956298#Comment_121956298

It probably won't be quiet this year given its a clear opportunity for all the obsessional trans bashing. V

Pauliedragon

"Don't be a dick" is far too ambiguous. I know there's not much alternative but a dickhead to some people is perfectly normal to others. I know this is where mods come in but they aren't robots of course they will all have differing opinions on that matter. Maybe it's time to replace the mods with AI😛

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958514#Comment_121958514

Yeah but also there used to be a really active LGBT forum. Part of the reason there isnt is because of all the anti LGBT crap. The off the scale obsessional trans bashing has caused a good few really brilliant posters to abandon the site.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958403#Comment_121958403

Is boards.ie not a for profit enterprise? Why should all the profits be kept by the owners off the back of the mods work protecting them from all these threats?

It’s a great system for the owners but it’s the user who loses out. Like others have said, some incentives should be considered, it doesn’t need to be a wage even. I for one have no idea why anybody would ever give up their time to police a group of strangers on the internet.

A free idea for incentives - free premium ads on done deal / adverts(capped). Free for you to take and use or and free for distilled to implement.

channelsurfer2

Been here over 20 years . The issue apart from demographics is as others said is the legal liability that could run into the hundreds of thousands if they overlook am allegedly liable post. They dont have the resources or strength to fight it so delete is the default position

Furze99

Seeing as how there are several moderators on this thread, can anyone explain the logic of the warning in this thread below relating to the use of 'anecdote' and what is or isn't an 'anecdote'.

Surely 'anecdote' is the direct experience of posters. Another word for it might be reportage or citizen journalism and what's wrong with that? For example, I'm personally aware of two Ukrainian citizens who are not genuine war refugees but it can't be mentioned as this would be 'anecdote'. Boards generally is full of 'anecdote' - people sharing experiences. The site would collapse tomorrow if threadbans were handed out for expressing 'anecdote'. And this particular mod uses their perception of 'anecdote' to hand out warnings, points and threadbans.

How on earth can you have a current affairs thread that is subject to such arbitrary censure?? This is a good example of why people are driven away from posting.

Can anyone explain?

Mod warning posted 06/03/23

Personal so called anecdotes are what caused the original Ukrainian refugee thread to be closed

Any more can expect threadbans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058281647/time-for-a-zero-refugee-policy-read-op-for-mod-warnings-and-threadbans-updated-5-1-24

Patrick Mahomes

The don’t be a dick rule doesn’t seem to apply to some of the moderators on the site which I think leads to a lot of the anti mod comments. Those mods don’t lead by example. They feel free to be dicks in areas they don’t mod and seem to get let off for being a dick by because they have mod on their users profile.

What most users of the site want is consistency with the don’t be a dick rule

Regards,

P.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958047#Comment_121958047

"Nothing any of us can say will remedy their frustration but it is not, in my opinion, a legitimate complaint because no one’s ever been banned for having “an opinion”. If you consistently post in opposition to a popular opinion mods won’t ban you for that and it’s mad to say they would."

Mods are picked, in part, when their opinions align to that of other mods, cat mods, admin, and the site itself. There is a bias, unconscious or otherwise.

Thats not to say all posters with differing opinions are banned or whatever, but those with opinions against the status quo are certainly modded more strictly and are often thread banned at the drop of a hat.

EmmetSpiceland

Awful lot of victims in this thread. Perhaps if you put the same effort you put into dumping on the mods into posting in a “productive” manner, and stopped wasting mod time moaning, the site wouldn’t be in decline.

It’s very easy to post on this site and stay within the rules. It’s the same for everyone. Lads saying ‘you can’t say anything anymore’ are just either lazy or stupid, you can say whatever you want as long as it’s within the rules.

Anyone who thinks the mods are out to get them needs to give their head a wobble. If you’re getting in trouble with the mods it’s because of how you post. Obviously, posters who aren’t, constantly, getting attention will be given some “leeway” for stepping out of line but if you’re more out of line than in you can’t play the victim and go crying to “Feedback” about how the big mean old mods are targeting you,

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958568#Comment_121958568

Profit. I'd say after Boards pay for server space and the one full time employee they have there's just about enough to keep the lights on tbh.

On the paid mods thing though is there any site that does that? And would the argument then not turn to "mods are modding based on the site owners agendas rather than being fair and impartial"

I don't think paid mods is ever a runner tbh

I'd be much happier if they put the money into making the site more functional for all users as opposed to the mess it's been since Vanilla changeover.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958659#Comment_121958659

Ah well if that’s the case, then fair enough. Still could give them a few freebies for the mind numbing work they do.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958262#Comment_121958262

There's a lot of truth in the above.

Demographics - an issue that cannot be targetted really as the youth of today don't really go for a Boards style site. However, if Boards is around in 10 or 20 years, the youth of today could well become the Boardsies of 10 years time - possibly.

User Experience - The site is crap. However, remember what it was like before the move? Constantly crashing, issues a plenty etc, without the move the feeling was Boards would definitely not survive. At least it is somewhat stable now, if a little more crap.

Posters - the vast majority are the reason why boards is still around. The quality and quantity of their posts makes it the reason why Mods/Admins put in so much free time to weed out the 1%….. until they return and the process starts again.

Site Management - some Forums are well Modded, both in quality and quantity and rarely have issues. Other Forums have issues, both in the quality of the poster and of the Mods themselves or lack thereof. The whole issue of liability is always in the back of a Mods head, which can seem like stifling discussion/over zealous moderation, but it is sometimes necessary. If would be great if that issue didn't exist - but that's not the case.

Poor Modding is of course an issue too, we are but human afterall and do make mistakes. I have seen first hand how Admins and CMods do indeed contact Mods in regard to their moderation and indeed have seen Mods De-Modded. But it is better to try to improve a Mod through discussion rather than DeMod - as pointed out, there is a lack of Mods in certain areas and posters aren't exactly putting their hand up to become a Mod. In fact, I can assure you, it can be Very Tiresome and Very Time Consuming to constantly look for Mods in Forums and No poster contacted would actually want to step up. I can certainly see why they wouldn't want the hassle, but if there were no moderation, there wouldn't be a site.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958579#Comment_121958579

You are of course correct. Mods or even CMods cannot apply a warning to a Mod but Admins have been messaged to apply a Warning to a Mod for their posts. Not having the old Yellow and Red cards for posts is a real pity. It is a chore for some Mods to edit a post with Mod - Warning issued - but it would certainly help transparency and actually stop the same post getting reported again and again.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958637#Comment_121958637

again that’s not the case. You’ll find (this is one of those trust me bro things) the users threadbanned quite quickly are often trouble makers to begin with.

With enough experience we can almost instantly tell when someone’s giving an opinion to partake in the discussion vs someone just trying to get a rise.

Also sure as the sky is blue we get it wrong occasionally and that’s why we have cmods and admins to keep things in order. Like if mods are floor staff (using restaurant terminology here so bare with), cmods are supervisors and admins are the managers.

If there’s a problem with a mod interaction you can report to a cmod to have a look who can then if necessary forward to admin for review. Often I find this doesn’t happen though. A mod interacts, poster either just doesn’t reply or just complains but never goes any further. Then they come here to threads like this and whinge about how unfair the system is when they never bothered to engage with the system for whatever reason.

To suggest a random assortment of individuals somehow all align with the same views on things is ridiculous as well. I’ve often disagreed with and seen plenty of disagreement between mods, cmods and admins about one thing or another. Even among the AH mods we don’t always share the same opinion on things.

We also regularly discuss and share opinions on any given topic when we’re unsure. The thing is most users will never see the background workings so it’s easy to feel like we’re just out banning and warning with abandon, but let me promise you whether or not you believe it is up to you, there is absolutely a strong team of people behind us keeping things in check and ensuring no mod goes rouge.

I also see a lot of people who for whatever reason refuse to use DRP as they feel it’s some sort of foregone conclusion. The fact of the matter is if any mod infracts you unfairly in your opinion but that’s not backed up by the cmod or admin reviewing your dispute it’s probably not all that unfair to begin with.

You are of course correct. Mods or even CMods cannot apply a warning to a Mod but Admins have been messaged to apply a Warning to a Mod for their posts. 

That is interesting. I've never seen that mentioned before.

So reporting a mod who is being a dick is pointless, unless reported to an Admin.

Good to know.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958690#Comment_121958690

Reporting a Mod for being a dick is pointless - no idea why you would think that. A CMod intervenes if necessary and it simply gets pushed up to Admin level if a warning needs to be issued. It's a simple enough thing to do in fairness.

Just because you think a mod is being a Dick, doesn't actually mean they are of course, the poster reporting might be the Dick for instance.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958515#Comment_121958515

Not to mention the Israeli bashing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958706#Comment_121958706

And it might be the case that the report is justified and the mod is being a dick.

We're being told on this thread that mods are treated the same as anyone else if they're reported but apparently that is not the case? Reports about mods requires a CMod to bring it to Admin attention?

Are reports made about mods automatically routed to CMods level?

Does this apply across all forums? As in, if a mod is reported in a forum other than the one they moderate, does that also require a CMod to look at it?

How routinely would CMods be checking for these reports?

Some clarity here would be good.

Big Bag of Chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958690#Comment_121958690

A moderator who is a poster in another forum (any forum outside the forum they moderate) can of course be reported and will be warned if necessary. Moderators have been warned in other forums.

What Shamobuc meant was a moderator cannot action their co-moderator if the complaint is about their moderation. In that instance it is passed to the Category Moderators to handle. This also happens and moderators are often advised to amend their style of moderating and/or general postimg. Same as posters are often advised to amend their style of posting.

But, moderators would often advise each other in the background. It's why the moderators forums are very useful. It can be a good place for moderators to bounce ideas off each other. For more experienced mods to steer other moderators in the right direction. So rather than officially "warning" a moderator a co-moderator might just have a word of advice.

I do believe moderators should be held to a higher standard than the average poster and petty digs at other posters either in posts, or in warnings should not be tolerated. So when this happens it should be reported. But like the average poster a moderator will be spoken to. They will be given advise on how to change. They will be given opportunity to change. They won't be demodded or sitebanned immediately! Same as a poster will be given opportunity to change. If that change doesn't come about and if a moderator continues to be an issue they will be, and have been, removed

This is beginning to look like Current Affairs.

Cranks complaining that everything is the fault of someone or something else, in Current Affairs it's immigrants, the government, etc etc here it's Mods, Admins and the owners of the site.

One of my favourite things to do lately is read threads in Dispute Resolution and see all the times posters whinge "I got banned for no reason..."

But there's always "a reason".